|
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
|
|
|
Posted: 2/15/2013 1:12 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Keep in mind that this is the era of "political correctness" and way too many people make a hobby out of being "offended". Some even make a profession out of it. Hell, an entire industy called "diversity education" has been created by people who realized they probably shouldn't have majored in Black Midget Lesbian Studies in college.
No changes.
Last edited 2/16/2013 11:52 AM by E Rocc
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/15/2013 1:32 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Has anyone from Calcutta or Bombay or New Delhi complained about the nickname Indians?
Just woul like to know.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/15/2013 1:50 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
westsidewahoo wrote: Has anyone from Calcutta or Bombay or New Delhi complained about the nickname Indians?
Just woul like to know. call Apple or Dell Computer's help line and ask them. . .  "Alls I knows is alls I knows, and what I knows is that there isn't no octopus punching in Hamlet." - Bot |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/15/2013 2:49 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Sorry that I don't know how to insert links properly in here. You may find this interesting. I have talked with a descendant of Louis Sockalexis who first told me of his story. He disagrees with the notion that it may have been for exploitation and said that he would be offended if the team changed their name.
http://www.baseballreliquary.org/story_of_sockalex is.htm
I didn't ask him how he felt about Chief Wahoo.
However, I have seen a number of surveys that do suggest that it is mostly white people who get offended with the names. My friend above agrees.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/15/2013 6:11 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
If Cleveland gave back the name Indians, would it make them Indian givers?
Would we also have to rename the process of illegally selling tickets outside the Jake?
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2013 11:17 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
I read this story a few years back so my recall of it may not be perfect but the gist of the story was this. The Cleveland Indians franchise began as the Cleveland Spiders. In the early days one of their best players was an "Indian" named Sockalexis. I believe the story stated that he was an Indian Chief. He was also the best player on the team. I don't recall if it happened when he was still playing or when he retired that the organization wanted to honor him. So they change the name from the Spiders to the indians around the turn of the century.
This whole PC thing is all about the continued pussyfication of America. I grew up in 50's and 60's. We had all kinds of ethnic groups in my neighborhood. Everybody was nailed by what today would be called ethnic slurs on a daily basis. Or if you were fat, skinny, tall or short, stupid or smart you would be called out for that too. Religion was also a target of our friendly barbs. Catholics, Protestant, Jewish etc, we managed to hit all those area too.
The thing was we were all friends. We would get up in summer and all go down to the baseball fields a play ball all day. There weren't any fights over name calling "slam fights" or anything like that. We had each others back. My background German. Both sets of my grandparents immigrated after WWI to the US when Hitler came to power.
I was called a Kraut, Nazi among other pleasantries by my friends and I would return these "pleasantries" to my friends with the appropriate response to their ethnic group. But the one thing that kept us as friends was the fact that we were all Americans. We won WW2. We we a part of the mightiest, richest, most charitable, technologically advanced country in the history of civilization.
When we weren't tossing politically incorrect barbs at each other, we would talk about how the diverse groups that made up our neighborhoods and country was our greatest strength.
Our dads would talk to use about the guys they fought WW2 with. No matter what your ethnicity, religion they were bands of brothers fighting for America as Americans.
There weren't all the special interest groups dividing America like we have today. The politicians weren't as polarized and wanting to push a specific agenda, but they worked together for the good of All the country. Companies actually cared about their employees. I am close to retirement and while I really do love working, I feel bad for the college kids and under 30 couples that most will not have the opportunities I had in front of me when I was in my 20s.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2013 11:56 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
HarleyD wrote: But how do you really feel?
Seriously, I'm not taking up the cause. It's not my cause to take up.
I'm just looking at it very differently than I have in the past, considering that it may in fact be "wrong" and asking a lot of devils advocate type questions based on that. It's too easy to dismiss a perceived offense if it doesn't offend you personally and I'm trying to view it objectively and not through the lens of my own interests. On Chief Wahoo is it the name or the image? Because if it is the image then they need to clean up their own. Go to any "Native Casino" and the images are far worse then any image i have ever seen of "Native Americans" in sports or any other corporate venue. It amazes me that some posters can read a single sentence and find War and Peace in the spaces with in it. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2013 12:41 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Zodypop wrote: This is a very intelligent discussion...and in the 'Cooler of all places!
I stopped wearing anything with Chief Wahoo on it a few years ago. There is little doubt that it is offensive. Although I too thought it was cool when I was younger.
What I'd like to see is some of these pro teams with Native themed names/logos to adopt native tribes as one of the main beneficiaries of their charitable giving. There are a number of tribes that originated in Ohio. That could turn this thing full circle. Instead of changing the name from Indians, make a big deal out of supporting Native American charities, scholarships, etc. I totally agree, the only Indians stuff I've worn either says "Indians" or "Cleveland" or has the C. The only issue with using "Indians" and just supporting NA charities is that you have to make sure that it doesn't just look like you're bribing them/making them look like sell-outs. It can be done, but it's something to remember. Easily done if the tribe's name is used. Like, for instance when Miami University went away from Redskins, they could have easily just went to "The Miami Tribe." They already have ties to some tribes and do some scholarship stuff and it would have been a natural move, and honoring. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2013 1:28 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
A casino here has the "firewater" lounge... you white people worry about the silliest things.
As far as (Flava Flav) Mallett's hokey quote, what he should have said was, "hard work beats talent, but nothing beats weed and Vanilla Ice. Word." - PBT |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/17/2013 3:01 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
E Rocc wrote: Keep in mind that this is the era of "political correctness" and way too many people make a hobby out of being "offended". Some even make a profession out of it. Hell, an entire industy called "diversity education" has been created by people who realized they probably shouldn't have majored in Black Midget Lesbian Studies in college.
No changes. I have to "politically" correct you on this. The course would be named "African-American Little People Lesbian Studies".
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/18/2013 7:11 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
--------------------------------------------- --- olecowboy wrote: westsidewahoo wrote: Has anyone from Calcutta or Bombay or New Delhi complained about the nickname Indians?
Just woul like to know. call Apple or Dell Computer's help line and ask them. . . --------------------------------------------- Apple has English speaking customer service reps from the US who are well trained and annoyingly helpful and polite. I could be suave... but how many crude guys do you know? |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2013 1:25 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Driven by political and social pressures to abandon the long standing team nickname and imagery, the Major League Baseball franchise formerly known as the Cleveland Indians, announced today the re-branding of the team to the Cleveland Seals. The change has been met with a mix of praise and resentment.
In an unforseen turn of events, John Adams was arrested in the top of the 2nd inning at today's opener. He was later released and issued the following statement, "I apoligize and take full responsibility for my actions. In retrospect, I now understand that replacing my bass drum with a baby seal was wrong and apologize for ungodly beating the little bugger took."
Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day I can tell you |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2013 3:34 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Chopper9 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- olecowboy wrote:
westsidewahoo wrote: Has anyone from Calcutta or Bombay or New Delhi complained about the nickname Indians?
Just woul like to know.
call Apple or Dell Computer's help line and ask them. . .
---------------------------------------------
Apple has English speaking customer service reps from the US who are well trained and annoyingly helpful and polite. Pfffft! sure they do! just cause they speak better english than I do doesn't mean they can't see the Ganges outta the breakroom window. . .  "Alls I knows is alls I knows, and what I knows is that there isn't no octopus punching in Hamlet." - Bot |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2013 12:08 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Yipicya wrote: I know Lois Risling personally and she is a ginormous douchebag, so much so that she was actually kicked out of her own reservation (Klamath) and now lives in Hoopa. She is also good friends with Suzan Harjo who is the one who has been "beating the drum" on this for a couple of decades.
They are kind of like the poverty pimps of the Native Americans, think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton style racism with an Indian bent.
The top selling sports merchandise on Indian Reservations? Indians, Redskins and Blackhawks. A couple of years ago California passed a law forcing schools to change. All the tribes around those schools didn't want the schools to change, but you lily-white-guilt feeling liberals once again decided that you'd tell us what we should feel.
Every year a new crop of you sour-cream skinned guilt ridden people come on to the rez and tell us how we need looked after and how great the tribes were before those evil Republican colonialist white people showed up. (Apparently we are supposed to recognize 'good' whitey from 'bad' whitey, you all look alike to us)
It's bullschit. It's a scam. You want to discuss real issues of importance on Indian Reservations, discuss why it is as a ethnic group why do Native Americans rank so far below the next group on HS graduation and College Attendance? How about drug and alcohol abuse? How about medical issues? How about pregnancy, STDs, and the like.
No one gives a rat's fuzzy ass about Team Nicknames.
Sincerely,
Yipicya
Chalagatha Band, Absentee Shawnee, OK
20 years working on and off as an Indian Courts and Indian Economic Development Coordinating Consultant. Bravo!
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
- grumpymom
- Harmless Furball
- 87 posts this site
|
Posted: 2/23/2013 12:17 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
USBlues19 wrote: In my experience, Irish-Americans are very comfortable with offensive race-based epithets.
Smerc wrote: id like to see notre dame change their names because fighting irish is offensive My husband is actually Irish and he, and my in--laws, find Notre Dame's moniker extremely offensive. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2013 2:55 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
I find politically correctness offensive...let's do away with it.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
- Zodypop
- Lethal Weinerdawg
- 873 posts this site
|
Posted: 2/23/2013 10:13 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
The term "politically correct" gets overused. Sometimes, in reality people are just being polite, and there's nothing wrong with that.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2013 10:58 PM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Zodypop wrote: The term "politically correct" gets overused. Sometimes, in reality people are just being polite, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yep. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 1:10 AM
RE: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Some of my indian friends think people are too sensitive. One follows the redskins. Its a joke people are so sensitive.
Of course it is perfectly normal to move for your favorite sports team.
Last edited 2/28/2013 1:12 AM by Section537Rules
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:04 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Zodypop wrote: The term "politically correct" gets overused. Sometimes, in reality people are just being polite, and there's nothing wrong with that. Deciding that I am going to call someone "Native American" rather than "Indian" is being polite. Insisting that everyone else do it is "Politically Correct".
While I understand not wanting to hurt the feelings of the "Undocumented Workers" or the "Morally Challenged" I do wonder why we have to change to ensure others describe them the way we think they should be described. The "Uniquely Proficient" and "Spokespeople" shouldn't be offended that a generic word applies to them. Baseball used to have ball boys, later adding ball girls...so we can PC refer to them as ballpersons now? How...logically challenged.
Last edited 2/28/2013 8:28 AM by CBAV06
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:18 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
"Alls I knows is alls I knows, and what I knows is that there isn't no octopus punching in Hamlet." - Bot |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:36 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
Interesting issue going on in Colorado, off topic but along a similar path.
A child has been declared a girl, even though she was born as a boy. She is 6 years old and apparently she has always identified herself as a girl, and was admitted to school as a girl. Now the school has said she cannot use the girls bathrooms. The parents are fighting this decision because they feel it is unfair to single out their girl(with a penis) from the other girls in the school.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:44 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
dude. . .  "Alls I knows is alls I knows, and what I knows is that there isn't no octopus punching in Hamlet." - Bot |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:11 AM
RE: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
If your Aunt had balls would she be your uncle ? And how does a transvestdite's dilema have anything to do with the Native Americans ? Some courts have ruled that it takes more than body parts to define your gender.</thread jack> Well okay, maybe not the courts. but read this--> Gender Identity
Last edited 2/28/2013 10:25 AM by TheShank
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:21 AM
RE: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
TheShank wrote: If your Aunt had balls would she be your uncle ? And how does a transvestdite's dilema have anything to do with the Native Americans ? Some courts have ruled that it takes more than body parts to define your gender.</thread jack> holy cow, shank! there's no reason to go off half-cocked, or anything. ←shrugging like nobody ain't got time for that. "Alls I knows is alls I knows, and what I knows is that there isn't no octopus punching in Hamlet." - Bot |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:32 AM
RE: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
olecowboy wrote:
TheShank wrote: If your Aunt had balls would she be your uncle ? And how does a transvestdite's dilema have anything to do with the Native Americans ? Some courts have ruled that it takes more than body parts to define your gender.</thread jack> holy cow, shank!
there's no reason to go off half-cocked, or anything.
←shrugging like nobody ain't got time for that. Looks like we have gun-control, gender identity and race profiling , all in one thread. Need more cowbell ? <--shrugging like he doesn't know what half-cocked is. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:38 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
CBAV06 wrote: Interesting issue going on in Colorado, off topic but along a similar path.
A child has been declared a girl, even though she was born as a boy. She is 6 years old and apparently she has always identified herself as a girl, and was admitted to school as a girl. Now the school has said she cannot use the girls bathrooms. The parents are fighting this decision because they feel it is unfair to single out their girl(with a penis) from the other girls in the school. If it has a penis it's a boy, it's actually one of the few things in life that isn't much of a mystery. ==================
Those who make peaceful resolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
You can't chase me back to OBR when I never left.
The artist formerly known as SirPaul
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:58 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
I could see a name like Washington Scalpers being offensive, but these names carry a history with them. To remove them now, only removes the notion of Natives from our collective concsciousness which would seem worse. Just another step to irrelevancy.
I have a feeling if they had a monetary interest in any of these sports teams then we would not have this thread.
As for the Fighting Irish. Some of my relatives are (mostly Irish) and refer to the fighting Irish moniker when they want to pretend they are tougher than anyone else. It's almost a badge to some, others like the poster above find it offensive.
I still don't know why they changed the name of the Washington Bulllets, seems Eric Holder was doing his best to illustrate why that name existed. Quite fitting. Then again the name bullets could have been a reference to speed, as in the speeding bullets. The Wizards? The Washington Watergators would have been better.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 11:11 AM
Re: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
LzrdKng wrote:
CBAV06 wrote: Interesting issue going on in Colorado, off topic but along a similar path.
A child has been declared a girl, even though she was born as a boy. She is 6 years old and apparently she has always identified herself as a girl, and was admitted to school as a girl. Now the school has said she cannot use the girls bathrooms. The parents are fighting this decision because they feel it is unfair to single out their girl(with a penis) from the other girls in the school. If it has a penis it's a boy, it's actually one of the few things in life that isn't much of a mystery. actually sex role and gender identity are two very separate things. hey, don't blame me. blame my psychological anthropology professor. the one who always wore plaid flannel shirts and doc martins. "Alls I knows is alls I knows, and what I knows is that there isn't no octopus punching in Hamlet." - Bot |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 2/28/2013 11:36 AM
RE: Native Americans speak on sports imagery
TheShank wrote: If your Aunt had balls would she be your uncle ? And how does a transvestdite's dilema have anything to do with the Native Americans ? Some courts have ruled that it takes more than body parts to define your gender.</thread jack>
Well okay, maybe not the courts. but read this-->Gender Identity I think the proper term is Transgendered now.  To be politically correct.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
The TAP Room