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Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!!

  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:11 PM

Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


If these rumors are true about now trading Andrew Wiggins, then the Cavs organization are a bunch of liars or have no authority and just cede to Lebron for everything. .

They told Wiggins and his agent/representatives- a week ago, that Wiggins isn't going anywhere. 

Now, they have completely flipped?    This is why Dan Gilbert is a lousy owner.  He doesn't allow his GM/coach to do their job and it leads to incompetence. 

Say we trade for Love.  You do realize that Dion Waiters and Tristan are gone after 2 years, right?  Then what is our bench. 

If the FO/coach are not behind this move and Lebron is forcing this move, then shame on Dan Gilbert.  I guarantee you we will not win a championship with a FO/coach that doesn't get the support of their owner. 

There is a reason that Lebron grew up in Miami and not in Cleveland.  In Cleveland, you have an owner that is willing to kiss ass and not create any accountability or structure.

In Miami, you had Pat Riley who didn't give into Lebron for anything.  He made it known who was the boss and look at what happened.  2 championships and 4 straight Finals appearances. 

That is no coincidence.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:15 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Do you think the Bulls made any roster move without talking to Michael Jordan first?
Why wouldn't you ask your star player who he thought would help him win more?

Last edited 7/17/2014 8:16 PM by Batman2414

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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:17 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


I gotta agree with everything you said. I'd hate for them to trade Wiggins. No guarantee that Love, Lebron, Kyrie = automatic championships. Keep a solid bench and build within. If Love really wants to be in Cle, he'll come next year.
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:22 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



Batman2414 wrote: Do you think the Bulls made any roster move without talking to Michael Jordan first?
Why wouldn't you ask your star player who he thought would help him win more?

Actually there are stories how Jordan demanded all types of roster changes and Phil Jackson and their GM always followed their plan.

They may ask for input but they sure as hell didn't allow him to dictate roster moves like the the Cavs are doing with Lebron. 

Think about it !!!  One week after they told Wiggins he isn't going anywhere.  The coach publicly came out and privately (to Wiggins people)  and said Wiggins isn't going anywhere. 

And now, because Lebron wants Love, you throw away your plan that you have developed that sets you up to compete for at least the next 10-15 years. 

If they do give up Wiggins, then you don't give up any more #1 picks.  I am against the trade but if they do it, then it better be Wiggins, Bennett/Thompson and Haywood.  

I guarantee you we do not win a championship with Love.  the trade depletes this team of any depth and screws you over in 4-5 years.  Do you think Kevin Love is here for more than 4 or 5 years. 

If they do make this trade and Love signs for 2 years, then they are the dumbest organization and deserve all the ridicule they have received.
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  • radovic
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:29 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


You do want Lebron wants to do. It's the simple. It says he didn't get involved with the roster in the past. Maybe his "guys" ie Paul see saying he wants Love.

Look what happened to arrogant Riley. Lebron told him to **** off. Lol

Last edited 7/17/2014 8:30 PM by radovic

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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:32 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Didn't Riley just draft the point guard LeBron wanted?
Would you say I have a plethora?
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:40 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



Hey butchfan, you should probably hold back on your judgment of Gilbert and the Cavs front office until something actually happens, don't you think?..........Right now your venom seems a little premature.......hahaha


butchfan wrote: If these rumors are true about now trading Andrew Wiggins, then the Cavs organization are a bunch of liars or have no authority and just cede to Lebron for everything. .

They told Wiggins and his agent/representatives- a week ago, that Wiggins isn't going anywhere. 

Now, they have completely flipped?    This is why Dan Gilbert is a lousy owner.  He doesn't allow his GM/coach to do their job and it leads to incompetence. 

Say we trade for Love.  You do realize that Dion Waiters and Tristan are gone after 2 years, right?  Then what is our bench. 

If the FO/coach are not behind this move and Lebron is forcing this move, then shame on Dan Gilbert.  I guarantee you we will not win a championship with a FO/coach that doesn't get the support of their owner. 

There is a reason that Lebron grew up in Miami and not in Cleveland.  In Cleveland, you have an owner that is willing to kiss ass and not create any accountability or structure.

In Miami, you had Pat Riley who didn't give into Lebron for anything.  He made it known who was the boss and look at what happened.  2 championships and 4 straight Finals appearances. 

That is no coincidence.

Last edited 7/17/2014 8:41 PM by brownblazer

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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:43 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Jesus Christ sports fans in this city are never happy or are just incompetent!

A- Has anybody heard Griffin or Gilbert say  he's untouchable??? NO!

B- They can't worry about what a guy might or might not do in two years.

C- The only way i would call this front office incompetent is if they weren't trying to get a K.Love type player.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:46 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



SamuraiDog wrote: I gotta agree with everything you said. I'd hate for them to trade Wiggins. No guarantee that Love, Lebron, Kyrie = automatic championships. Keep a solid bench and build within. If Love really wants to be in Cle, he'll come next year.
Why can't people understand THERE IS NO MONEY TO GET LOVE NEXT YEARbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbangheadbanghead
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:53 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Cleveland fans love hard. Once they start loving something they won't stop. Its what makes them so great. But its ok go trade Wiggins if LeBron gives it an ok.
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:53 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



radovic wrote: You do want Lebron wants to do. It's the simple. It says he didn't get involved with the roster in the past. Maybe his "guys" ie Paul see saying he wants Love.

Look what happened to arrogant Riley. Lebron told him to **** off. Lol

No you don't.  Who said he didn't get involved?  If you are talking about Michael Redd and Ray Allen when he didn't meet them at the airport, then that is completely different.

The FO had targets and wanted Lebron to help with the recruiting.  This is going against what the FO and coach want in favor of your star player. 

If you think that works, then go ask the Washington redskins how squashing your coach and giving power to your star QB is working out. 

The Spurs are a model of consistency because the players know their roles.  Popp gets in Duncun,, Parker, Ginnobli, and Leonard's face and doesn't care about hurting their feelings.  Ask Tony Parker, how much crap Popp gave him early on and still does when he does something wrong.  

I really wish we would try and adopt the San Antonio model and not the Miami/Boston model. 

The San Antonio model has worked out well as you have 5 championships in 15 years.  The Heat got their big 3 when they were all in their mid-20's, just entering their prime, and look how old they got. 

People want to act like the this is so much younger situation than what happened in Miami.  Bosh and Lebron were 25 in 2010. Wade was 26 or 27. 

Now we have a 23 yr old, 25-soon to be 26, and a 29- soon to be 30 year old that would be our big 3 and we think the same won't happen to us. 

Miami is in a situation where players want to go their for the lifestyle, the tax benefits. 

Teams like San Antonio do well because they draft well and keep developing players that fit their system. 

San Antonio is going to be a championship contender for years to come even when Duncun retires because they found a guy like Leonard. 

That is what Cleveland has to do.  If they believe Wiggins can be special, then you cannot trade him.

Cleveland is negotiating against themselves because the Cavs are the only team Love has publicly stated he would sign long term (whatever that means) . 

I don't get why the panic.  If Lebron wants to try and leave in a year or 2 if we don't get Kevin Love, then good luck to him. 

he will be vilified and his essay will be a fraud. 

I get we want to win, but we shouldn't make moves because we are scared of losing him again.  We have to make decision based on conviction and sound judgement.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:55 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Oh and let's all ignore Kyrie is only 22 and in 5 years it will be him and a 30 year old Love. Its not like we don't have any youth left if we trade Wiggins.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:58 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Let's see...so far this offseason they have

1) reupped Kyrie Irving.
2) drafted Andrew Wiggins

That's a pretty good offseas-oh- wait... I feel like I am missing something. Oh yeah....

3) signed LeBron James.

Terribly incompetent. You are correct.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:58 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



100% agree with this statement......

butchfan wrote:
That is what Cleveland has to do.  If they believe Wiggins can be special, then you cannot trade him.

Cleveland is negotiating against themselves because the Cavs are the only team Love has publicly stated he would sign long term (whatever that means) . 

I don't get why the panic.  If Lebron wants to try and leave in a year or 2 if we don't get Kevin Love, then good luck to him. 

he will be vilified and his essay will be a fraud. 

I get we want to win, but we shouldn't make moves because we are scared of losing him again.  We have to make decision based on conviction and sound judgement.
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 8:59 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



CharlesManson wrote: Jesus Christ sports fans in this city are never happy or are just incompetent!

A- Has anybody heard Griffin or Gilbert say  he's untouchable??? NO!

B- They can't worry about what a guy might or might not do in two years.

C- The only way i would call this front office incompetent is if they weren't trying to get a K.Love type player.

You are telling me that if Kevin Love signs a 2 yr. deal and there is the risk of losing him, that is a good deal? 

Blatt said that Wiggins isn't going anywhere and he said the FO told him he isn't going anywhere.  Look on Cleveland.com article with Blatt saying wiggins isn't going anywhere. 

It isn't about whether they are trying to get Kevin Love.  It is about getting the right deal.  If you buy a beautiful house for $50K over market value, was that a good deal for you? 

You got the house you wanted but the return on the house when/if you want to sell will come back to bite you.  If that is how you want the Cavs to operate then fine. 

We will be a mediocre team in 3 or 4 years because Lebron is spent and we have no cap room to get him help. 

This should not be about getting a title in 1 or 2 years and then screw the future.
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  • radovic
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:04 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Yeah I'm sure the Spurs don't ask Duncan and Parker who to get?
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:06 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



XUDawg wrote: Let's see...so far this offseason they have

1) reupped Kyrie Irving.
2) drafted Andrew Wiggins

That's a pretty good offseas-oh- wait... I feel like I am missing something. Oh yeah....

3) signed LeBron James.

Terribly incompetent. You are correct.

1- Kyrie would have to take less money and a shorter deal-  It was a no-brainer-  The Cavs are able to offer the most money-
2.  Drafting Wiggins- was because of FO/owner competence?  Really- I thought It was because we got lucky in the lottery with a 1.7% chance to win the #1 pick and got it.  We were going to draft Parker or Wiggins. 

3.  Signed Lebron-  the guy came home because his family wanted him to.  That was the driving force. If you don't think this was about legacy and trying to restore his name in Ohio more than anything the Cavs did, then you are kidding yourselves. 

I give them the most credit for Lebron but the Akron connection had more to do with this than anything.
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:09 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



radovic wrote: Yeah I'm sure the Spurs don't ask Duncan and Parker who to get?

Name one player that they said, go get him.  Do you really think Duncan and Parker went into Pop's and their GM's office and said I want "this player"?  especially at the expense of a young and talented prospect.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:13 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



Just kidding

t.newsone.com/newsone/#!/entry...7f5d9d0fde054/2

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--- butchfan wrote:


radovic wrote: Yeah I'm sure the Spurs don't ask Duncan and Parker who to get?

Name one player that they said, go get him.  Do you really think Duncan and Parker went into Pop's and their GM's office and said I want "this player"?  especially at the expense of a young and talented prospect.

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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:16 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



butchfan wrote:
CharlesManson wrote: Jesus Christ sports fans in this city are never happy or are just incompetent!

A- Has anybody heard Griffin or Gilbert say  he's untouchable??? NO!

B- They can't worry about what a guy might or might not do in two years.

C- The only way i would call this front office incompetent is if they weren't trying to get a K.Love type player.

You are telling me that if Kevin Love signs a 2 yr. deal and there is the risk of losing him, that is a good deal? 

Blatt said that Wiggins isn't going anywhere and he said the FO told him he isn't going anywhere.  Look on Cleveland.com article with Blatt saying wiggins isn't going anywhere. 

It isn't about whether they are trying to get Kevin Love.  It is about getting the right deal.  If you buy a beautiful house for $50K over market value, was that a good deal for you? 

You got the house you wanted but the return on the house when/if you want to sell will come back to bite you.  If that is how you want the Cavs to operate then fine. 

We will be a mediocre team in 3 or 4 years because Lebron is spent and we have no cap room to get him help. 

This should not be about getting a title in 1 or 2 years and then screw the future.
I didn't see the Blatt article my bad.

If you can get a player like Love for Wiggins, Bennett, Thompson and a #1 you do it period! We know what Love is do we know what Wiggins is???
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:21 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


I don't know about the organization but I have my doubts about Gilbert at times. He seems to be very emotional at times and makes decisions out of fear. I hope he doesn't make a knee jerk decision either way.
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:29 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



im sorry but if you are giving up Wiggins, you are not giving up another first round pick.   In one week, you will have shed your team of 3 first round players/picks and with this trade, it would 3 more. 

Whatever you think of the Cavs drafting in recent years, with the addition of Lebron, those players are really good depth at a  cheap rate. 
CharlesManson wrote:
butchfan wrote:
CharlesManson wrote: Jesus Christ sports fans in this city are never happy or are just incompetent!

A- Has anybody heard Griffin or Gilbert say  he's untouchable??? NO!

B- They can't worry about what a guy might or might not do in two years.

C- The only way i would call this front office incompetent is if they weren't trying to get a K.Love type player.

You are telling me that if Kevin Love signs a 2 yr. deal and there is the risk of losing him, that is a good deal? 

Blatt said that Wiggins isn't going anywhere and he said the FO told him he isn't going anywhere.  Look on Cleveland.com article with Blatt saying wiggins isn't going anywhere. 

It isn't about whether they are trying to get Kevin Love.  It is about getting the right deal.  If you buy a beautiful house for $50K over market value, was that a good deal for you? 

You got the house you wanted but the return on the house when/if you want to sell will come back to bite you.  If that is how you want the Cavs to operate then fine. 

We will be a mediocre team in 3 or 4 years because Lebron is spent and we have no cap room to get him help. 

This should not be about getting a title in 1 or 2 years and then screw the future.
I didn't see the Blatt article my bad.

If you can get a player like Love for Wiggins, Bennett, Thompson and a #1 you do it period! We know what Love is do we know what Wiggins is???
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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:33 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



GatorNation4Lyfe wrote: I don't know about the organization but I have my doubts about Gilbert at times. He seems to be very emotional at times and makes decisions out of fear. I hope he doesn't make a knee jerk decision either way.

I don't see how this isn't a knee jerk reaction when just 1 week ago, Blatt gave the assurance that him and FO are 100% behind keeping him. 

I get you want to keep your star player happy.  But the way you do that is surround him with the best players to win now but also in 3-5 years. 

Lebron doesn't care about the Cavs when he is done playing basketball.  What does he care if the Cavs are any good the year he retires? 

My biggest point is that you have to balance out your player's requests with what your talent evaluators and head coach think about players on the team.  If you don't, then what good is it to have David Griffin and David Blatt?

Maybe then we should just hire Rich Paul and Maverick Carter to run and coach the team.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:33 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


Can we wait till they screw up before we lambast them?
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:33 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 


IT'S A FREAKIN RUMOR CAN IT HAPPEN FIRST BEFORE WE SCREAM OUR PANTIES ARE ON FIRE AND WE HATE THE CAVS AND DAVID GRIFFIN. Plus the fact if they do trade him and we win a championship next year most of us will say "Wiggins who", and before anyone jump on that statement I like the kid....every rumor spoken by talking heads is just garbage until it's sticks to something!

THE ORIGINAL DCDAWG!!!!!


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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:38 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



butchfan wrote:
radovic wrote: Yeah I'm sure the Spurs don't ask Duncan and Parker who to get?

Name one player that they said, go get him.  Do you really think Duncan and Parker went into Pop's and their GM's office and said I want "this player"?  especially at the expense of a young and talented prospect.
Parker told the Spurs to go after his boy Diaw!!!! And they did!!!

In the end our only regrets are the chances we never took.

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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:42 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



SamuraiDog wrote: I gotta agree with everything you said. I'd hate for them to trade Wiggins. No guarantee that Love, Lebron, Kyrie = automatic championships. Keep a solid bench and build within. If Love really wants to be in Cle, he'll come next year.
There's no guarantee that Lebron, KI and Wiggins equals a title either but I'm betting we'll see more Finals in the next 3-4 years with Love than with a player (Wiggins) who has to "learn the pro game".

In the end our only regrets are the chances we never took.

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  • radovic
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:44 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



Apparently not. It's ,like all the angst last year with the josh Gordon rumors.

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Can we wait till they screw up before we lambast them?

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  • butchfan
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:44 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



blkmagic00 wrote:
butchfan wrote:
radovic wrote: Yeah I'm sure the Spurs don't ask Duncan and Parker who to get?

Name one player that they said, go get him.  Do you really think Duncan and Parker went into Pop's and their GM's office and said I want "this player"?  especially at the expense of a young and talented prospect.
Parker told the Spurs to go after his boy Diaw!!!! And they did!!!

and what did the Spurs give up for getting Diaw?  I have no problem with Lebron saying I'd like to get Mike Miller and Ray Allen because they are supplemental pieces for the short-term.  Those type of decision if they don't work out don't kill your organization. 

If the Love trade doesn't work out, you are stuck with no way to improve your team.   that is the difference. Two totally different situations.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:47 PM

Re: Cavs proving they are still an incompetent organization !!! 



butchfan wrote:
blkmagic00 wrote:
butchfan wrote:
radovic wrote: Yeah I'm sure the Spurs don't ask Duncan and Parker who to get?

Name one player that they said, go get him.  Do you really think Duncan and Parker went into Pop's and their GM's office and said I want "this player"?  especially at the expense of a young and talented prospect.
Parker told the Spurs to go after his boy Diaw!!!! And they did!!!

and what did the Spurs give up for getting Diaw?  I have no problem with Lebron saying I'd like to get Mike Miller and Ray Allen because they are supplemental pieces for the short-term.  Those type of decision if they don't work out don't kill your organization. 

If the Love trade doesn't work out, you are stuck with no way to improve your team.   that is the difference. Two totally different situations.
You even admitted the Bulls did everything Jordan wanted. If a player didn't cut it they were gone. It seemed to work for them. There are many ways to win and with us we are going to defer every decision through LeBron until Kyrie takes over as the guy and have him tell us what to do.

I didn't think LeBron would want to give up Wiggins but it is clear he wants Love more. So why not just listen to him get it done and get to work?

Last edited 7/17/2014 9:50 PM by Batman2414

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