Brrexkl wrote: Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

If he went to the right Offenses, a WCO style, he was meant to be great.  Problem is, when people say that they envision the 49ers with Young or Montana at the helm, with an OL that could Pass Block and 5 skill guys that all could run the proper route (properly) and catch the darn ball.

Instead, he came here.  Where 1.25 seconds after the snap some 285 lb DE was greeting him in a rude manner.

This team was not ready for a QB... but with your first #1 Overall, when it's time to pick a face for the Franchise... what does one do?  We took the QB.  Should have took the LT, maybe the Pass Rush DE.  Should have built a line and got some protection so in 2-3 years we could protect a QB, any QB... then groomed one.  Hard temptation to resist.

He didn't have his WR.  He didn't have his RB.  He surely didn't have an OL.  He was set up for failure.  Doesn't mean he would have been great anywhere else, either.  But I do like his chances better had we not Drafted him and a team with a more developed Offensive Structure had got him

Still, it's football.  You don't pick the situation, you play through it.  He failed, and that is how he will always be remembered.  I just find it funny how people forget the Team also failed him... it wasn't just a one-way street sort of thing.

Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had.

As it so happens, we from the OBR often sit together at training camp. One year, this was when Butch was still coach, several of us were allowed inside the fenced in area to ramble around with the players, coaches and the players wives. 

Several things happened then that were revealing. One, Robiske (coach not son) told us to quit talking to Kevin Johnson (who was then lounging on a bench) because he'd been trying to get him to run. But that's not what's germane to your post. What is germane was Kelly Holcomb was playing catch with The Mule. Someones Dad's son, Virginia Browns Fan aka VBF, called over to Holcomb and said  "Have Tim throw me one."  Holcomb shook his head and said "He'll break your fingers"  VBF then asked "He throws that hard?" Holcomb nodded.

Anecdotal, but wonderfully so.

By the way, I'm pretty sure VBF was the one jawing with KJ.

Gary Reents wrote:

Brrexkl wrote: Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

If he went to the right Offenses, a WCO style, he was meant to be great.  Problem is, when people say that they envision the 49ers with Young or Montana at the helm, with an OL that could Pass Block and 5 skill guys that all could run the proper route (properly) and catch the darn ball.

Instead, he came here.  Where 1.25 seconds after the snap some 285 lb DE was greeting him in a rude manner.

This team was not ready for a QB... but with your first #1 Overall, when it's time to pick a face for the Franchise... what does one do?  We took the QB.  Should have took the LT, maybe the Pass Rush DE.  Should have built a line and got some protection so in 2-3 years we could protect a QB, any QB... then groomed one.  Hard temptation to resist.

He didn't have his WR.  He didn't have his RB.  He surely didn't have an OL.  He was set up for failure.  Doesn't mean he would have been great anywhere else, either.  But I do like his chances better had we not Drafted him and a team with a more developed Offensive Structure had got him

Still, it's football.  You don't pick the situation, you play through it.  He failed, and that is how he will always be remembered.  I just find it funny how people forget the Team also failed him... it wasn't just a one-way street sort of thing.

Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had.

As it so happens, we from the OBR often sit together at training camp. One year, this was when Butch was still coach, several of us were allowed inside the fenced in area to ramble around with the players, coaches and the players wives. 

Several things happened then that were revealing. One, Robiske (coach not son) told us to quit talking to Kevin Johnson (who was then lounging on a bench) because he'd been trying to get him to run. But that's not what's germane to your post. What is germane was Kelly Holcomb was playing catch with The Mule. Someones Dad's son, Virginia Browns Fan aka VBF, called over to Holcomb and said  "Have Tim throw me one."  Holcomb shook his head and said "He'll break your fingers"  VBF then asked "He throws that hard?" Holcomb nodded.

Anecdotal, but wonderfully so.

By the way, I'm pretty sure VBF was the one jawing with KJ.

SD:

No Touch ..........................................

After his elbow snapped in that Green Bay Exhibition game he became handicapped physically as well as mentally .

6 Years in he flips the Browns the fingers over their 6 million dollar bonus offer incentive based contract  after stealing $39 million large in actual take home  while producing squat , and signed a $600,000,00  dollar base pay deal with the Packers because nobody else even wanted him as a water boyee  .

His inability to read defenses  were the singular reason he was cut , not withstanding the  injury suit Couch filed after the fact over his arm .

Weeden OTOH so far has talked the talk , his maturity  is that of a vet with none of the mental frailties of Timmie who never got over his crying spell when his little heart was broken after fans cheered for Holcombs entry  when he stunk up that game vs the rats .

The only thing relevant right now going forward is if Weeden can Walk that walk .

If he has the sand to be the man.


SoulDawg

Really?  Was this his rookie year or later?

While at Kentucky he lived off the Quick Slant, the Quick Out and a Drag Route from the #1.  Very few big plays off the fly, mainly because of loft so the DB is all over him as he catches it.

His precision was off the charts, which is why that 3 Yard Slant could house it, Montana/Rice style.  Which is exactly why so many believed he would be perfect for a WCO.  The Out Route only worked because he was so darn accurate.  He could read the DBs shade and put it where the defender couldn't attack the ball.  The Drag was perfect, because he could loft it enough to get it over a LB if needed, but had the right amount of zip to no let the Secondary close... of course Windows in College are usually bigger.

We saw hundreds of 6 Yard Darts, so I guess it's not surprising that he had some velocity... just never saw him put it down field with authority.  I've also seem so really nice touch passes in College by Tim (to SD's post below).

I guess there is a major difference in actually having Arm Strength and then having the Cannon to display the deep ball in games.  I know I could zip it pretty fierce on a 10 yard in route, and I could throw 60 in high school but it was a loft ball with a lot of arc so no authority to it.  I would make it, it would be on target, but it wasn't getting there fast enough that a DB couldn't make a play for it or recover if he'd followed the wrong man.  Maybe Couch had the strength but threw a deep ball like I used to... which I can tell you is neither good for College or the NFL.

(On a side note, I was personally proud of taking one knee... the right one... and sticking the left leg straight out, so that I'm throwing off of one knee and an extended leg, and putting the ball out to 55 yards.  Again, big lofty arc of a rainbow, no authority, but I was 16 and a RB/DT for a small school, so it made me feel good.  LOL!)  Now that I think about it, must have been mechanics if Leg Drive was only getting me another 5 yards...

"What is germane was Kelly Holcomb was playing catch with The Mule. Someones Dad's son, Virginia Browns Fan aka VBF, called over to Holcomb and said "Have Tim throw me one." Holcomb shook his head and said "He'll break your fingers" VBF then asked "He throws that hard?" Holcomb nodded.

Anecdotal, but wonderfully so."

-- I have no opinion about Couch's relative arm strength, but your anecdote might be more relevant as a comment on Holcomb's personality or VBF's finger stength.

Or perhaps a comment on Holcomb's perceived opinion of the American legal system and the chance that VBF would claim injured fingers and sue somebody with deep pockets!

Other possible interpretations of your anecdote.

As a QB, Couch should have been used as best fit his skills. If he wasn't, blame the coaches. If he shouldn't have been drafted where he was, blame the FO we had at the time.

Which sorta brings us back to rookie camps and the realization that we now have to do the best with what we have.

Nothing in this 400 yard game, against a Florida defense that put 5 guys into the NFL's 1st two draft rounds, indicates a rocket arm by Couch. As Brrexkl said mostly slants, bubble screens, crosses, and Yeast YAC. Even so, Timmy looks like a prototypical WCO QB in that clip (only 4:44).

I'm guessing that in GR's account Holcomb was just being a humble, complimentary teammate for a fan.

Brrexkl wrote: Really?  Was this his rookie year or later?

While at Kentucky he lived off the Quick Slant, the Quick Out and a Drag Route from the #1.  Very few big plays off the fly, mainly because of loft so the DB is all over him as he catches it.

His precision was off the charts, which is why that 3 Yard Slant could house it, Montana/Rice style.  Which is exactly why so many believed he would be perfect for a WCO.  The Out Route only worked because he was so darn accurate.  He could read the DBs shade and put it where the defender couldn't attack the ball.  The Drag was perfect, because he could loft it enough to get it over a LB if needed, but had the right amount of zip to no let the Secondary close... of course Windows in College are usually bigger.

We saw hundreds of 6 Yard Darts, so I guess it's not surprising that he had some velocity... just never saw him put it down field with authority.  I've also seem so really nice touch passes in College by Tim (to SD's post below).

I guess there is a major difference in actually having Arm Strength and then having the Cannon to display the deep ball in games.  I know I could zip it pretty fierce on a 10 yard in route, and I could throw 60 in high school but it was a loft ball with a lot of arc so no authority to it.  I would make it, it would be on target, but it wasn't getting there fast enough that a DB couldn't make a play for it or recover if he'd followed the wrong man.  Maybe Couch had the strength but threw a deep ball like I used to... which I can tell you is neither good for College or the NFL.

(On a side note, I was personally proud of taking one knee... the right one... and sticking the left leg straight out, so that I'm throwing off of one knee and an extended leg, and putting the ball out to 55 yards.  Again, big lofty arc of a rainbow, no authority, but I was 16 and a RB/DT for a small school, so it made me feel good.  LOL!)  Now that I think about it, must have been mechanics if Leg Drive was only getting me another 5 yards...