Rookie camp is done!

Weeden stood out, but still throwing picks.

Richardson stood out, just looking like a beast.

The UDFA from Oklahoma State made some plays, Cooper.  Bad news, dropped a pass that ended up getting intercepted.

Benjamin took a Slant to the house on the last play Rookie Camp.  This is promising, since most figure he's just a Fly Route kind of guy.  We are a WCO kind of team, so we need Short Routes and Big YAC.  His Speed and Quickness could help in this area, if he doesn't get jammed on the line.

JMJ stood out, playing and learning all 3 LB spots in our 4-3.  They are saying he is a sponge, soaking up all the knowledge and stepping up to the challenge. 

No direct mention of Winn, Acho, Schwartz, Wade, Smelley or a number of our other Draft Picks.  Doesn't mean they didn't do well.

It's hard to tell, since it's mostly just Helmets right now.  Especially with Running Back, where you really need contact and OL/DL battling it out.  Still, nice to know some guys stood out in the early competition and were getting things done... and nice to know Weeden was putting the ball all over the field where guys could make plays on it.

The main thing is Weeden not leading Benjamin right into James Harrison on a slant route where Harrison can take his head off like he did to Massaquoi. I don't think Mo ever got over that hit. 

Seriously, having 172-pound receivers running slant routes where they can get their clocks cleaned by linebackers and safeties is a recipe for disaster.

I would, however, like to see a pitchout to Richardson where he hands the ball to Benjamin on a reverse. Now that would be fun to watch.

PROSECUTOR wrote: The main thing is Weeden not leading Benjamin right into James Harrison on a slant route where Harrison can take his head off like he did to Massaquoi. I don't think Mo ever got over that hit. 

Seriously, having 172-pound receivers running slant routes where they can get their clocks cleaned by linebackers and safeties is a recipe for disaster.

I would, however, like to see a pitchout to Richardson where he hands the ball to Benjamin on a reverse. Now that would be fun to watch.

I hate to be a wet blanket... but would we worry about getting some basics down first?  Little things like hitting a receiver in stride, getting a first down on 3rd and one, a receiver running a six yard pattern when it's 3rd and five an inside hand off that goes for more than no gain a pitch that doesn't lose yardage!   You know, little details like that.    Then there's that whole predictability thing. 

I like the big plays as well as the next guy, but this team has been sorely lacking in fundamentals for the last 12 years and I'm damned sick and tired of it.  I don't care if you put a 5 foot WR out there.  If he can go get the football and not look like somebody standing around looking for direction, regardless of his height play him.  If he can get open... play him.  If he can get YAC... play him.  If he can do any of that and downfield block too... well, you know.

"It's hard to tell, since it's mostly just Helmets right now."

-- Yeah, that's it. At least it's the proverbial first step along the way. Or the second step, if the draft was the first step. Guys get a chance to be coached a bit and play with guys they may play with down the road.

Let's hope the team overall avoids the Phil Taylor injury-bug from here on out. Although injuries are part of the game. Or were part of the game. We may be headed towards a safe if boring future where highly-paid players are protected. Yippee.

Real training camp and real games will tell us more.

One thing that seems promising is that they are actually talking up Weeden and he also seems to be doing good things from what little we can see.Completing passes showing a big arm.

The way I remember it is we would already be making excuses for why they cant complete a pass for Colt and Quinn and Frye and Couch and all the other turds we had at QB

Am I delusional about remembering this way?

xGRUMPY wrote: One thing that seems promising is that they are actually talking up Weeden and he also seems to be doing good things from what little we can see.Completing passes showing a big arm.

The way I remember it is we would already be making excuses for why they cant complete a pass for Colt and Quinn and Frye and Couch and all the other turds we had at QB

Am I delusional about remembering this way?

I never heard any coaches raving about the ability of Colt or Quinn or Frye to throw the football.

PROSECUTOR wrote:

xGRUMPY wrote: One thing that seems promising is that they are actually talking up Weeden and he also seems to be doing good things from what little we can see.Completing passes showing a big arm.

The way I remember it is we would already be making excuses for why they cant complete a pass for Colt and Quinn and Frye and Couch and all the other turds we had at QB

Am I delusional about remembering this way?

I never heard any coaches raving about the ability of Colt or Quinn or Frye to throw the football.

SD:

Technically you could include Couch in that mix too , at 6'5" he couldn't spin it  at anywhee near the velocity using effortless  power his size should have warranted .

Dilfer who was a hack  brought the only arm to the position  save Spergeon Wynn , who was so inaccurate he couldn't find the ground if he threw down.

Has to be something in the water  in that every FO  whose come in here since 99 doesn't understand he value of your QB having an arm to cut through the winds off Lake Erie .

Maybe Lerner should make  every hire from now on look at Ellway  and the drive  with their eyeballs taped open  until they get the message if Weeden should fail.

Cross your fingers knock on wood and caress that rabbitts foot , that maybe wev'e finally put that lunacy to rest with our 22nd pick.


SoulDawg

Heart, Hustle, a few comments with Quinn on anticipation... nothing ever on the actual ability to deliver the ball.  Smart, heard smart a few times.

Anderson got tons of comments about his arm.  Rocket was a staple.  Also inaccurate.  Fearless... but that one later got changed to dumb.

So yes, good to hear that even with just helmets on we have a QB getting noticed for slinging the ball.

Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

If he went to the right Offenses, a WCO style, he was meant to be great.  Problem is, when people say that they envision the 49ers with Young or Montana at the helm, with an OL that could Pass Block and 5 skill guys that all could run the proper route (properly) and catch the darn ball.

Instead, he came here.  Where 1.25 seconds after the snap some 285 lb DE was greeting him in a rude manner.

This team was not ready for a QB... but with your first #1 Overall, when it's time to pick a face for the Franchise... what does one do?  We took the QB.  Should have took the LT, maybe the Pass Rush DE.  Should have built a line and got some protection so in 2-3 years we could protect a QB, any QB... then groomed one.  Hard temptation to resist.

He didn't have his WR.  He didn't have his RB.  He surely didn't have an OL.  He was set up for failure.  Doesn't mean he would have been great anywhere else, either.  But I do like his chances better had we not Drafted him and a team with a more developed Offensive Structure had got him

Still, it's football.  You don't pick the situation, you play through it.  He failed, and that is how he will always be remembered.  I just find it funny how people forget the Team also failed him... it wasn't just a one-way street sort of thing.

Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had.

"Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had."

-- So... Considering the offense we are running, is accuracy or a strong arm more important? And is either one something you can acquire?

I would say either one is doubtful to acquire if you ain't got it. And I would say that accuracy and strong arm often go hand-in-hand (get it? "hand-in-hand?) as far as worth to a QB. And can't a good coach alleviate those traits a bit with play-calling? Which of course can come with it's own problems...

It would seem success has followed guys lacking either trait at times. The QB has to know what his limitations are- as do his coaches- and work around them when possible.

In the end, I wonder if a team who "believes" in the QB isn't the most important trait. Defining "believes" may be the hard part... Perhaps belief grows as a guy believes in himself and starts to stay around in a winning situation? Cam Newton may be on that road and Tebow may be going off that road despite their different winning records.

But strong arm and accuracy are good. Just not the whole deal with a QB.

Couch chose his college poorly.. He wanted to stay close to home and that cost him dearly since the coaching at Kentucky in those years was a joke. He could have chosen Tennessee but then he would've spent three years behind Peyton Manning but would have gotten MUCH better coaching which would have benefited him in Cleveland. 

I doubt it would've made any difference today given the horrendous team and coaching we had back then to say nothing of the almost non-existent scouting staff we were stuck with at the time. 

Brrexkl wrote: Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

a friend on mine is a big Oregon St. fan so I follow them in addition to my favorite college team. Anderson's game in the NFL was never much different than his college game. Anderson had marginal NFL skills despite his arm. He was a project 6th round pick by the Ravens and only made the practice squad that year after clearing waivers which means nobody thought anything of him despite the 'arm'. 

Brrexkl wrote: Heart, Hustle, a few comments with Quinn on anticipation... nothing ever on the actual ability to deliver the ball.  Smart, heard smart a few times.

Anderson got tons of comments about his arm.  Rocket was a staple.  Also inaccurate.  Fearless... but that one later got changed to dumb.

So yes, good to hear that even with just helmets on we have a QB getting noticed for slinging the ball.

"He could have chosen Tennessee but then he would've spent three years behind Peyton Manning but would have gotten MUCH better coaching which would have benefited him in Cleveland."

-- This comments a bit on how guys are handled in college and how talent can or may not be developed. And the NFL necessarily go by that. So if a talent gets lost in college, too bad.

HS guys need to be lucky or smart in where they go. I guy I knew was an all-state player in HS. He had all the physical attributes and physical skill ran in his family. 

 He went to Penn State and... disappeared. But he probably got a free education!

Collge is full of guys who think they'll be pros one day. And then some guys have gotten NFL bonus money and have... disappeared. You never know.

Shurmur was quoted in some article that Weeden was a smooth natural thrower
That he had a natural ability to get timing with the recievers and hit them in stride
I could never understand how a guy can play football for about 16 years and not have the natural ability to figure out how to hit a guy in stride

OmiGosh can possibly be getting optimistic?
I hope this guy is the real deal.

Brrexkl wrote: Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

If he went to the right Offenses, a WCO style, he was meant to be great.  Problem is, when people say that they envision the 49ers with Young or Montana at the helm, with an OL that could Pass Block and 5 skill guys that all could run the proper route (properly) and catch the darn ball.

Instead, he came here.  Where 1.25 seconds after the snap some 285 lb DE was greeting him in a rude manner.

This team was not ready for a QB... but with your first #1 Overall, when it's time to pick a face for the Franchise... what does one do?  We took the QB.  Should have took the LT, maybe the Pass Rush DE.  Should have built a line and got some protection so in 2-3 years we could protect a QB, any QB... then groomed one.  Hard temptation to resist.

He didn't have his WR.  He didn't have his RB.  He surely didn't have an OL.  He was set up for failure.  Doesn't mean he would have been great anywhere else, either.  But I do like his chances better had we not Drafted him and a team with a more developed Offensive Structure had got him

Still, it's football.  You don't pick the situation, you play through it.  He failed, and that is how he will always be remembered.  I just find it funny how people forget the Team also failed him... it wasn't just a one-way street sort of thing.

Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had.

As it so happens, we from the OBR often sit together at training camp. One year, this was when Butch was still coach, several of us were allowed inside the fenced in area to ramble around with the players, coaches and the players wives. 

Several things happened then that were revealing. One, Robiske (coach not son) told us to quit talking to Kevin Johnson (who was then lounging on a bench) because he'd been trying to get him to run. But that's not what's germane to your post. What is germane was Kelly Holcomb was playing catch with The Mule. Someones Dad's son, Virginia Browns Fan aka VBF, called over to Holcomb and said  "Have Tim throw me one."  Holcomb shook his head and said "He'll break your fingers"  VBF then asked "He throws that hard?" Holcomb nodded.

Anecdotal, but wonderfully so.

By the way, I'm pretty sure VBF was the one jawing with KJ.

I agree they were not ready for a QB. However, the idiots in charge at the time, the they raided enough teams offensive linemen that they had a good line. Also, Couch thought he was as good as Manning & refused help in reading NFL defenses is something I heard more than once back in those days. His arrogance cost him some development IMO, and as SD said, for his size he did not throw with much velocity. Of course our WR were pathetic, when KJ is your #1 and nobody else is close, you have bad receivers.

Brrexkl wrote: Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

If he went to the right Offenses, a WCO style, he was meant to be great.  Problem is, when people say that they envision the 49ers with Young or Montana at the helm, with an OL that could Pass Block and 5 skill guys that all could run the proper route (properly) and catch the darn ball.

Instead, he came here.  Where 1.25 seconds after the snap some 285 lb DE was greeting him in a rude manner.

This team was not ready for a QB... but with your first #1 Overall, when it's time to pick a face for the Franchise... what does one do?  We took the QB.  Should have took the LT, maybe the Pass Rush DE.  Should have built a line and got some protection so in 2-3 years we could protect a QB, any QB... then groomed one.  Hard temptation to resist.

He didn't have his WR.  He didn't have his RB.  He surely didn't have an OL.  He was set up for failure.  Doesn't mean he would have been great anywhere else, either.  But I do like his chances better had we not Drafted him and a team with a more developed Offensive Structure had got him

Still, it's football.  You don't pick the situation, you play through it.  He failed, and that is how he will always be remembered.  I just find it funny how people forget the Team also failed him... it wasn't just a one-way street sort of thing.

Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had.

Gary Reents wrote:

Brrexkl wrote: Couch was never known for his arm at Kentucky.  It was his extreme accuracy in their short slant attack and his leadership.  I mean, he played for Kentucky... which was one of the least talented SEC Schools.  So he was getting beat on weekly, taking it like a champ, brushing himself off and still tossing for a ton of yardage and Touch Downs against very good Defenses.

If he went to the right Offenses, a WCO style, he was meant to be great.  Problem is, when people say that they envision the 49ers with Young or Montana at the helm, with an OL that could Pass Block and 5 skill guys that all could run the proper route (properly) and catch the darn ball.

Instead, he came here.  Where 1.25 seconds after the snap some 285 lb DE was greeting him in a rude manner.

This team was not ready for a QB... but with your first #1 Overall, when it's time to pick a face for the Franchise... what does one do?  We took the QB.  Should have took the LT, maybe the Pass Rush DE.  Should have built a line and got some protection so in 2-3 years we could protect a QB, any QB... then groomed one.  Hard temptation to resist.

He didn't have his WR.  He didn't have his RB.  He surely didn't have an OL.  He was set up for failure.  Doesn't mean he would have been great anywhere else, either.  But I do like his chances better had we not Drafted him and a team with a more developed Offensive Structure had got him

Still, it's football.  You don't pick the situation, you play through it.  He failed, and that is how he will always be remembered.  I just find it funny how people forget the Team also failed him... it wasn't just a one-way street sort of thing.

Still, absolutely right... never was known for a strong arm even with the NFL 'proto-type' size he had.

As it so happens, we from the OBR often sit together at training camp. One year, this was when Butch was still coach, several of us were allowed inside the fenced in area to ramble around with the players, coaches and the players wives. 

Several things happened then that were revealing. One, Robiske (coach not son) told us to quit talking to Kevin Johnson (who was then lounging on a bench) because he'd been trying to get him to run. But that's not what's germane to your post. What is germane was Kelly Holcomb was playing catch with The Mule. Someones Dad's son, Virginia Browns Fan aka VBF, called over to Holcomb and said  "Have Tim throw me one."  Holcomb shook his head and said "He'll break your fingers"  VBF then asked "He throws that hard?" Holcomb nodded.

Anecdotal, but wonderfully so.

By the way, I'm pretty sure VBF was the one jawing with KJ.

SD:

No Touch ..........................................

After his elbow snapped in that Green Bay Exhibition game he became handicapped physically as well as mentally .

6 Years in he flips the Browns the fingers over their 6 million dollar bonus offer incentive based contract  after stealing $39 million large in actual take home  while producing squat , and signed a $600,000,00  dollar base pay deal with the Packers because nobody else even wanted him as a water boyee  .

His inability to read defenses  were the singular reason he was cut , not withstanding the  injury suit Couch filed after the fact over his arm .

Weeden OTOH so far has talked the talk , his maturity  is that of a vet with none of the mental frailties of Timmie who never got over his crying spell when his little heart was broken after fans cheered for Holcombs entry  when he stunk up that game vs the rats .

The only thing relevant right now going forward is if Weeden can Walk that walk .

If he has the sand to be the man.


SoulDawg

Really?  Was this his rookie year or later?

While at Kentucky he lived off the Quick Slant, the Quick Out and a Drag Route from the #1.  Very few big plays off the fly, mainly because of loft so the DB is all over him as he catches it.

His precision was off the charts, which is why that 3 Yard Slant could house it, Montana/Rice style.  Which is exactly why so many believed he would be perfect for a WCO.  The Out Route only worked because he was so darn accurate.  He could read the DBs shade and put it where the defender couldn't attack the ball.  The Drag was perfect, because he could loft it enough to get it over a LB if needed, but had the right amount of zip to no let the Secondary close... of course Windows in College are usually bigger.

We saw hundreds of 6 Yard Darts, so I guess it's not surprising that he had some velocity... just never saw him put it down field with authority.  I've also seem so really nice touch passes in College by Tim (to SD's post below).

I guess there is a major difference in actually having Arm Strength and then having the Cannon to display the deep ball in games.  I know I could zip it pretty fierce on a 10 yard in route, and I could throw 60 in high school but it was a loft ball with a lot of arc so no authority to it.  I would make it, it would be on target, but it wasn't getting there fast enough that a DB couldn't make a play for it or recover if he'd followed the wrong man.  Maybe Couch had the strength but threw a deep ball like I used to... which I can tell you is neither good for College or the NFL.

(On a side note, I was personally proud of taking one knee... the right one... and sticking the left leg straight out, so that I'm throwing off of one knee and an extended leg, and putting the ball out to 55 yards.  Again, big lofty arc of a rainbow, no authority, but I was 16 and a RB/DT for a small school, so it made me feel good.  LOL!)  Now that I think about it, must have been mechanics if Leg Drive was only getting me another 5 yards...

"What is germane was Kelly Holcomb was playing catch with The Mule. Someones Dad's son, Virginia Browns Fan aka VBF, called over to Holcomb and said "Have Tim throw me one." Holcomb shook his head and said "He'll break your fingers" VBF then asked "He throws that hard?" Holcomb nodded.

Anecdotal, but wonderfully so."

-- I have no opinion about Couch's relative arm strength, but your anecdote might be more relevant as a comment on Holcomb's personality or VBF's finger stength.

Or perhaps a comment on Holcomb's perceived opinion of the American legal system and the chance that VBF would claim injured fingers and sue somebody with deep pockets!

Other possible interpretations of your anecdote.

As a QB, Couch should have been used as best fit his skills. If he wasn't, blame the coaches. If he shouldn't have been drafted where he was, blame the FO we had at the time.

Which sorta brings us back to rookie camps and the realization that we now have to do the best with what we have.

Rookie camp is over in Cleveland.

Conclusion, all the rookies looked great is shorts and helmets.

This conclusion can also be made for all the other 31 NFL teams.

It is going to be a wait and see program until the official games start in September.

Lets hope we get a very pleasant surprise and they win against Phiadelphia.

That would be a great start to the season and then we can say, Rookie Camp is Over and obviously it was a success.