Maybe this isn't the purest of Pure Football topics, but I think it deserves a little discussion.

Sometimes I think of my own fandom and love for the Browns.  I'm primarily an optimist unless of course things don't go my way.  I think we are all a little like that.

There are guys like Soul Dawg who is passionate in his own way who quickly embraces the newest new fangled QB or pimps the latest guy with a cannon for an arm and a gleam in his eye, and then as quickly as he falls in love with them, he kicks them to the curb when they don't have dinner served hot on the table and his tidy whities aren't all pressed and folded when he arrives at his homestead after a long day at work.

Then there's guys like me.  I always hope for the best, hang in there too long.  Long after most guys would have called it quits, I'm still hanging in there, hoping I come home one day to a hot meal and a clean house.  I want to be there when it gets turned around.  I empathize with the struggle of others to succeed despite the reservations and doubts of everyone else around me.  I was the kid who clapped for tinkerbell to come back to life even when my more mature friends laughed at me for doing so.  That's the fighter in me, I guess, that wants to prove everyone wrong.  I've always rooted for the underdog to pick himself up off the canvas and knock the champ out.  Like Don Quixote battling windmills, I fight my own hopeless battles, even if I'm the only one who has any hope left.

So that brings us to Colt McCoy, and Brandon Weeden.  Colt McCoy for whatever reason, can't keep my house clean and get supper on the table when I get home.....but...there was always something I saw in him...so I find it hard to give up on him or write him off just yet.  Then there is Brandon Weeden....that hot lil thing in a mini skirt that you saw at the grocery store, or that new girl at school who paid you a bit of attention.  Who could blame you for wanting that?

For some of us the decision is easy....replace the old model with something new.  Kick McCoy to the Curb for the sexy new gunslinger?  I know that's what my friend SoulDawg would do.  There's nothing wrong with that, and maybe it's just how things should be...but I'm not quite there yet.  Maybe though, it boils down to this.  We are all like bitter old men.  Disappointed repeatedly by those we placed our hopes and faith in, we either become overly cynical or irrationally optimistic.  We hold on too long or we throw in the towel too quickly.

I think that's just two sides of the same coin if you ask me.  It's the natural evolution of being a Browns fan in such a harsh environment of losing.  We all find our own way to survive, and find our own reasons to keep hoping that we'll be coming home to a hot supper one day.  So whether it's Weeden or McCoy who serves it up, I suppose it doesn't matter.  Regardless of what side of the isle you are on, I'm pretty confident you'd take the plunge with either if they got the job done.

I'm to the point that I just don't care too much anymore.  Just give me something to believe in, and I'll be in your corner tilting at windmills regardless whether or not your name is Weeden or McCoy.

Bitter?  No.  But if you choose to be, then that's a choice you make.

Naive?  Yes.

What you guys are really hoping for is lightning in a bottle.  I hate to tell you this, but that's a lot more like Don Quixote than you realize.  IOW - pure fiction.  It just doesn't happen all that often and when it does, it's through manipulation and prone to a shorter life than you'd hope for.

You want to be more realistic.  You want to build and that process is normally slow.  You go from Anderson to McCoy to Weeden.  You improve with each step.  Weeden may only be a slight upgrade over McCoy but the consensus (even here I think) is that he is an upgrade.  Would have been nice to go from an Anderson to a Brady, but that happens in storybooks, at least most of the time.

We've been reading dime novels as fans.  It's time to make the switch to Beowulf.  It's going to be hard reading at times, but we may wind up with a classic.

TREE:

Colt McCoy for whatever reason, can't keep my house clean and get supper on the table when I get home.....but...there was always something I saw in him...so I find it hard to give up on him or write him off just yet.  Then there is Brandon Weeden....that hot lil thing in a mini skirt that you saw at the grocery store, or that new girl at school who paid you a bit of attention.  Who could blame you for wanting that?

AA:

The irony is that Weeden looks like the nerdy Hoover (Animal House) while Colt looks like the guy from the sleazy talent agency who's here to audition for a gay porno.

McCoy came into your marriage with pluses and minuses. 

The minuses have been described ad nauseum.  The big arm is equivalent to the sex life.  Not his big selling point.

On the plus side were accuracy and good decision making... his equivalent of a clean house and supper.

When his accuracy went south last year, and he started throwing interceptions that would make even Derek Anderson go "Dude, wtf?!..."

... well, then, as they say, what good are ya, Jimmy Dick?  It's not like you're wowing me in bed.

TREE:

For some of us the decision is easy....replace the old model with something new.

AA:

And one easy way to see if a qb was jettisoned prematurely is whether they went on to be productive elsewhere. 

The closest anyone seemed to fit that bill was Jeff Garcia.  Even then he was just a temporary band aid as he was here.

TREE:

So whether it's Weeden or McCoy who serves it up, I suppose it doesn't matter.  Regardless of what side of the isle you are on, I'm pretty confident you'd take the plunge with either if they got the job done.

AA:

A given.

In politics they talk of what side of the aisle they're on.  Here the politicians must be on a junket to St. Martin's with Republicans on one side of the isle (no doubt the more conservative Dutch side) and-- typical--  the Dems are  on the FRENCH side!

"I'm to the point that I just don't care too much anymore. Just give me something to believe in, and I'll be in your corner tilting at windmills regardless whether or not your name is Weeden or McCoy."

-- First of all, remember that it's okay to refer to "bitterly clinging" these days. So no worries about Pure Football.

And being a Browns fan leaves itself open to bitterness- if you are a fan of winning more than a fan of the Browns. Of course, we are all fans of winning when it happens. But that can get subsumed to the team if the two don't always go hand in hand. I'm more frustrated with dumb moves than I am with a won/loss record at times.

In the wake of a draft, this topic is bit ironic. We are supposed to be optimistic and look at the future for the team and how it can be built. The reality is that all teams are trying to build and that the NFL doesn't stand still. So what the Browns can do remains to be seen.

This is a bit weird, but someone I know just had a mother die. The mother had an up and down life- including being a European during WW2- but had come full circle to a final period of contentment.

So on that morbid note, perhaps we should just want a team we can be content with? We can argue stuff, but really if we have a team we can be content with and proud about, wins and losses will happen. Let other people be overly concerned with analysis and puffing themselves up.

Just be content, baby! (Hmmm, I need to work on that).

"SD:

We ain't pardners we ain't buddies and we ain't friends for one simple reason , your an ignorant Jackass , who will not come correct on these players , and I don't do stoopid or suffer hard headed fools."

-- Tough love!

Or tender hate.

Certainly not tough hate or tender love. Never that as a fan.

SD74:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........

I expected more from you....and No, the reference to being friends was pure SARCASM, but that was as lost on you as Kelly Holcomb's career.

Well, let's hope there aren't a lot of guys who refer to themselves as fighters AFTER they just revealed they clapped for Tinker Bell to come back.

[Side note:  if I were to imagine what Tinkerbell looks like all grown up, BW's avatar does it for me]

All that is good for the Cooler, but ultimately PFF demands a bit more.  More analysis, more research, more light and less heat.  And what it demands is that each situation be examined on its own.

The problem is that the usual suspects will forever have a predictable knee jerk interpretation of any given event.  And the never ending qb issues are a classic example.  Some can't wait to ride ANY incumbent out on a rail.  Others, like you, clink to that incumbent.  Every.  Single.  Time.   Perhaps in some cases, it's warranted.  Others not.  But the Browns could have drafted Andrew Luck, and some would complain he can't fire a BB through a vault door.  Or the Browns could bring back Spergon Wynn and "this time, let's give him a FAIR shot!"

Different players invariably draw the same tired, predictable response.  Situations draw the same tired, predictable response.  Whatever the hell it is, it simply has to be tied to the fleeced Heckert or lazy Walrus or foppish dilletante owner or the repressive atmosphere at CBS that wants to deprive me of my God given right to take a leak without having to leave my seat.

The other problem is that sometimes people are zealous enough in their arguments that they're not above being dishonest or disingenuous.  They trot out bad stats, or good stats used in a bad way, or claim links when none exist.  Some times they don't know any better, but usually they do.  The ends justifies the means for them.

This isn't the Chesterfield Debating Society.  It doesn't require stuffed shirts haranguing each other ("Heredity!!"  "Environment!!").   But let's give it a little more fiber than "he sucks!" or "my friend knows... and Holmgren told him..."

We all want the same thing, and right now, we've been on a life boat for far too long waiting for our ship to come in.  Just remember that the survivors who complain the most or take more than their ration of water are often the ones who get voted overboard.

The day after the draft when bitterness was pegging the meter, I thought of the preface before an old  Leonard Cohen song,

"Let's sing another song, boys.  This one has grown OLD and BITTER...."

I guess what I was trying to say AA was that I am willing to give Weeden a chance.  He's got the big arm everyone seems to want, prototypical size etc.  I think maybe his stint in Minor league baseball actually helped him with maturity etc.

Maybe this wasn't the type of analytical numbers and stats, or scheme philosophy types of posts you might see here, but it is analytical in its own way in that it looks at all of us, whether we are on the left, the right or centrists if I can use that analogy, and really boils it down to one thing.  We all want the same thing in the end regardless of how, or why we argue some of the minor points within the overall grand scheme of things.

Yes, it is time to Sing Another Tune.  Hopefully it will be a Victory Song.

"I guess what I was trying to say AA was that I am willing to give Weeden a chance."

-- Oh, that's what you were trying to say? Darn, I thought you were really celebrating bitterness, really embracing your bitter self, really getting to be One with your bitterness.

That is a way to approach knowledge if done right. Love or hate can be a fine motivator. But the Weeden thing does make it more Brownsish.

BTW- It's... ironic... to reference Leonard Cohen. He's made an entire career out of bitterness. He'd be broke without it.  But he has written and performed some good songs. Bitter love is a sure sales item.

As far as anything being "Pure Football" worthy or not, I am sure someone will make judgments and act accordingly. Don't worry too much about it.

Oh but I am embracing my own bitterness.  The bitterness of being a Browns fan.

Here's to hoping our bitterness turns to joy!

Sure, you'll give him a chance.  We all will.

But you're not honor bound to play the same role of not only just giving him a chance, but withdrawing your life savings and hitching it to his wagon, and come hell or high water, you'll stay with him over the Donner Pass.

Why not just watch him, give him the usual benefits of the doubt as a rookie, and formulate an opinion based on his performance?  Out of the box, I know.  But if, for whatever reason, he stinks, you don't have to resort to your usual role of clinging to his thigh pads as his ship goes down.

By next spring, we may even have a pretty good picture of whether he's just not it (and if that's the case, we'll likely be in position for another qb), or he really is the guy who can take this club places.

And just think, either way-- by the first day of spring next year-- Weeden will be--give or take a few weeks-- as old as Jim Brown when he RETIRED.

In Cleveland, every silver lining can have a touch of gray. 

It's why so many East Europeans settled here.  There's a fatalism in the air they find appealing.

I don't think I am going to do that any more.  I've always been someone who is loyal to a fault, and believe me, it's been a fault of mine that has gotten me into hot water in other areas of my life.

I've had to learn when to cut ties with people, and move onto the next thing if the current situation isn't working out.  I'm not saying Colt McCoy can't be a great QB in this league some day, but I think I'm at the point where it's getting a little easier to move onto the next thing.  Had to learn this in my life as well as with my Browns' fandom.

Will totally give him the benefit of the doubt when he steps into the batter's box.  Let's hope he comes out swinging for the fences and hits a few out of the park, or learns to measure his swing and at least consistently hits for singles and doubles.

And yes, Tree, come Labor Day we may find Colt is the best option to win a game and Seneca is the best back-up QB in the AFCN and Brandon is under center as HHS continue in their quest to find Dulcinea. Bitter/ Sweet the life of us grumpy old men who remember the Browns as relevant and glory days.

keokuk wrote: "I guess what I was trying to say AA was that I am willing to give Weeden a chance."

-- Oh, that's what you were trying to say? Darn, I thought you were really celebrating bitterness, really embracing your bitter self, really getting to be One with your bitterness.

That is a way to approach knowledge if done right. Love or hate can be a fine motivator. But the Weeden thing does make it more Brownsish.

BTW- It's... ironic... to reference Leonard Cohen. He's made an entire career out of bitterness. He'd be broke without it.  But he has written and performed some good songs. Bitter love is a sure sales item.

As far as anything being "Pure Football" worthy or not, I am sure someone will make judgments and act accordingly. Don't worry too much about it.

Bitter? That's right, but at the same time, he wrote tender songs as well.

He wrote a great song about love, and it involves Lourdes in France and the Blessed Virgin Mary...great, great song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZIFavgLd38

"In 1979, on tour in France with Leonard Cohen, I began writing a series of letters between the “Bernadette” I almost was, and “Jennifer”–two energies within me. One innocent, and the other who had fallen for the world.The letters an experiment: “Dear Bernadette, I’m so lost right now.” but I'll be okay.”I showed Leonard my letters to which he replied, “There’s a song in here…just start at the beginning There was a child named Bernadette, I heard the story long ago…and then keep going….”

There was a child named Bernadette
I heard the story long ago
She saw the Queen of Heaven once
And kept the vision in her soul
No one believed what she had seen
No one believed what she heard
That there were sorrows to be healed
And mercy, mercy in this world
So many hearts I find
Broke like yours and mine
Torn by what we've done and can't undo
I just want to hold you
Won't you let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do

We've been, we fall, we fly
We mostly fall, we moostly run
And every now and then we try
To mend the damage that we've done
Tonight, tonight I cannot rest
I've got this joy inside my breast
To think that I did not forget
That child, that song of Bernadette

So many hearts I find
Broke like yours and mine
Torn by what we've done and can't undo
I just want to hold you
Won't you let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do

Aardvark wrote: Sure, you'll give him a chance.  We all will.

But you're not honor bound to play the same role of not only just giving him a chance, but withdrawing your life savings and hitching it to his wagon, and come hell or high water, you'll stay with him over the Donner Pass.

Why not just watch him, give him the usual benefits of the doubt as a rookie, and formulate an opinion based on his performance?  Out of the box, I know.  But if, for whatever reason, he stinks, you don't have to resort to your usual role of clinging to his thigh pads as his ship goes down.

By next spring, we may even have a pretty good picture of whether he's just not it (and if that's the case, we'll likely be in position for another qb), or he really is the guy who can take this club places.

And just think, either way-- by the first day of spring next year-- Weeden will be--give or take a few weeks-- as old as Jim Brown when he RETIRED.

In Cleveland, every silver lining can have a touch of gray. 

It's why so many East Europeans settled here.  There's a fatalism in the air they find appealing.

Cleveland reminds some of my German friends of Northern Germany--the Ruhr Valley and the industrial gridlock of cities up there...reminds them of the Cuyahoga Valley and the steel factories near Grant and Fleet and Clark.

To the south, same thing with the Mahoning Valley in YTown/Warren/Sharon area...

"Bitter? That's right, but at the same time, he wrote tender songs as well."

-- Oh boy. I have to defend my take on Leonard Cohen.

Let's just say he has performed and sang and written very well. But much of his work has had "bitterness"- or "anti-bitterness" as it's mainspring. You can probably say that about much "artist" work. And the buying public has loved it. Uh, to an extent.

One of the- to me- memorable videos is of an upbeat, cheerful British reporter interviewing a tired and morose Townes van Zandt over in England somewhere. The reporter said something like: "Your songs are very depressing many times". Van Zandt thought it over and said: "My songs aren't depressing. They're just hopeless." He paused, looked hopeless and tired and asked the reporter: "Don't you think life is hopeless?" There was a silence while van Zandt watched the reporter. Then Townes shook his head and said: "No, I can see you don't" and seemed to dismiss him.

Which of course means that van Zandt would have been a great Browns fan. Always look on the dark side. Expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.

I like Cohen. Just saying that "bitterness" has been a boon to him artistically.

"Here's to hoping our bitterness turns to joy!"

-- Any good news will be all the more welcome because of their past.

This thread is so emo. Philosophy, song lyrics, classic lit, and lost QB loves.

Sheesh, I just lost a pint of testosterone reading through it.

Somebody get Chuck Bednarik or Ray Neitzchke on the phone.....

Thank you. I threw up twice.