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RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
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Posted: 5/6/2012 2:38 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
As I said above, even if is was 3,000 one year doesn't interest me. Before I pay an elite salary I want to see elite performance which isn't done on a one year resume. Along with his 1700s WARTS where seen too. RAC? RAC? The same BAD HC who went back to the ONLY thing he could do which was DC is going to scare me?
Farm boy? You might have a point there. He and Jethro Bodine both had dreams of being a double not spy. What are we risking more fumbles? Limited speed? Sitting out over a torn hang nail? Pissing off his teammates? Taking for ever to hit the hole? Embrace the upgrade. TR is not just a great talent but a GREAT guy who thinks and is REALLY loyal.
RAC was a good guy but WAY, WAY WAY, Way over his head here. Didn't you finally admit it before ? Player walked all over him. So why now the "watch out for RAC?". Oh, and don't pull the "all Phil blame when you didn't use it before". When he left how many teams scooped him up as a HC????? How many before us?????
And what was Hillis signed up by him to be? A. Peterson or a backup? Oh, and RG3 is done and yesterday's business. I love the Browns not a player so I hope he stinks. We tried but it wasn't going to happen with him. Try to blame MH all you want but he gave as much (really more) than what the Redskins gave. It wasn't going to happen. I'll take MH, TH and CO any day and way over the past. We finally got a REAL team. A real QB prospect. Solid OL and DL and a number of other solid pieces. We still have a few like WR and LB to address but in basically two years I'll take what they have done over the past any day..
My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
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Posted: 5/6/2012 10:26 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
hamster wrote: As I said above, even if is was 3,000 one year doesn't interest me. Before I pay an elite salary I want to see elite performance which isn't done on a one year resume. Along with his 1700s WARTS where seen too. RAC? RAC? The same BAD HC who went back to the ONLY thing he could do which was DC is going to scare me?
Farm boy? You might have a point there. He and Jethro Bodine both had dreams of being a double not spy. What are we risking more fumbles? Limited speed? Sitting out over a torn hang nail? Pissing off his teammates? Taking for ever to hit the hole? Embrace the upgrade. TR is not just a great talent but a GREAT guy who thinks and is REALLY loyal.
RAC was a good guy but WAY, WAY WAY, Way over his head here. Didn't you finally admit it before ? Player walked all over him. So why now the "watch out for RAC?". Oh, and don't pull the "all Phil blame when you didn't use it before". When he left how many teams scooped him up as a HC????? How many before us?????
And what was Hillis signed up by him to be? A. Peterson or a backup? Oh, and RG3 is done and yesterday's business. I love the Browns not a player so I hope he stinks. We tried but it wasn't going to happen with him. Try to blame MH all you want but he gave as much (really more) than what the Redskins gave. It wasn't going to happen. I'll take MH, TH and CO any day and way over the past. We finally got a REAL team. A real QB prospect. Solid OL and DL and a number of other solid pieces. We still have a few like WR and LB to address but in basically two years I'll take what they have done over the past any day.. SD: Let me know when you come out of that Rose colored glasses the FO can do nothing wrong personna cocoon you've wrapped your self in so you can keep from being hurt and we can talk . The RG3 fiasco is just that history , but lets not be so stoopid as to reinvent excuses for the Jackass who admits cocking off those negotiations by failling to go in with his best bid in the first place and subsequently getting his dumb ass beat like the trifling ho he really is.. Told you a year before it happened it was a major blunder to put our eggs in the Mccoy basket and by pass a QB in the draft in the first place , which prompted our present scrambles to get what all teams must have a competent signal caller with legit NFL skillset . The rebuild we did this year was what should have transpired last year , it was a major gaffe which damn near cost them their jobs and derailed this set before it ever got untracked . Treating a third round Mutt like a franchise pick , without one iota of evidence was hubris and arrogant stoopidity beyond the nth degree , running Hillis instead of ingratiating and incorporating him into the roster was ham handed amatuerism , you have to handle your people better than that . Boottom line . Elite RB average $7 million per , a $10 million dollar bonus over five years with his minimum averaged just under $3.5 million for a running back who produced 2100 yards from scrimmage over two years , and was the most productive back in Cleveland on a bad year , caused by the disenchantment and resentment over a contentiuos contract negotiation . So you enjoy your neat little fantasy World , where all things are seal and Brown , and Holmgrens greasy farts smell like lilac water to ya . The reality is quite different . SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:37 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
I must admit that I was never a Peyton Hillis fan. I enjoyed watching him score touchdowns in 2010, but I never jumped on the Hillis bandwagon because I didn't see anything special there. Frankly, I wasn't surprised by the excitement he generated among Browns fans due to the thirst for any sign of something good happening on the field, but I couldn't embrace it, personally. Here's a few things to consider (which I am sure every NFL front office with even a passing interest in PH has already gotten in memo form):
- If you break down the numbers, Hillis really made his mark in 2010 in 3 games (the first Baltimore game, the New England game and the Carolina game). Much like Jerome Harrison before him, these three games dwarfed everything else PH ever did in a Cleveland Browns uniform.
- In those 3 games, PH averaged 198 yards per game total offense. In his 13 other 2010 games, he averaged 81 ypg total offense. In his 23 other games as a Cleveland Brown, he averaged 77 ypg total offense.
- In those 3 games, he averaged 6.0 yards per carry. In his other 23 games as a Brown, he averaged 3.7 ypc.
- He scored 6 TDs in those 3 games and 10 TDs in his 23 other games as a Brown.
- He had only 3 100 yard rushing games in the 23 other games he played for the Browns.
- Those three games were against Baltimore (first game, next game against Baltimore they held him to 35 yards rushing and 5 yards receiving), New England (which had the 25th worst defense in the league that year), and Carolina (which was on its way to a 2-14 finish on the season).
Consider also:
- In his career as a Brown, he had almost as many fumbles (10) as gains (on rushing or passing plays) of 20 yards or more (11).
- For comparison sake, Arian Foster had 33 plays of 20+ yards in 2010-11 and 8 fumbles (on 200+ more touches), Ray Rice had 24 20+ plays and 2 fumbles (200 more touches), Matt Forte had 33 20+ plays and 5 fumbles (30 more touches), Rashard Mendenhall had 17 20+ plays and 3 fumbles (80 more touches), and third round rookie Demarco Murray had 7 plays of 20+ yards and 1 fumble on 324 fewer touches.
Now, you can blame it on this or blame it on that - crappy QBing, bad OL, poor coaching, nose out of joint b/c of low-ball contract offer - but there is no denying that once you drill down a bit the production expected from a feature back in the NFL just isn't there.
Bottom line for me: There is a reason this player signed a free agent contract to play, mainly, fullback. As I've been saying since before last season even started - that's his position in the NFL. He sure as heck isn't a feature RB.
1/6/04 Rest in peace "Daddy Wags." May perpetual light shine upon you.
"It's alright to have a hitch in your swing, but when you have a flaw in your hitch, you're in trouble." - Leon Wagner |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 12:19 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
daddywags wrote: I must admit that I was never a Peyton Hillis fan. I enjoyed watching him score touchdowns in 2010, but I never jumped on the Hillis bandwagon because I didn't see anything special there. Frankly, I wasn't surprised by the excitement he generated among Browns fans due to the thirst for any sign of something good happening on the field, but I couldn't embrace it, personally. Here's a few things to consider (which I am sure every NFL front office with even a passing interest in PH has already gotten in memo form):
- If you break down the numbers, Hillis really made his mark in 2010 in 3 games (the first Baltimore game, the New England game and the Carolina game). Much like Jerome Harrison before him, these three games dwarfed everything else PH ever did in a Cleveland Browns uniform.
- In those 3 games, PH averaged 198 yards per game total offense. In his 13 other 2010 games, he averaged 81 ypg total offense. In his 23 other games as a Cleveland Brown, he averaged 77 ypg total offense.
- In those 3 games, he averaged 6.0 yards per carry. In his other 23 games as a Brown, he averaged 3.7 ypc.
- He scored 6 TDs in those 3 games and 10 TDs in his 23 other games as a Brown.
- He had only 3 100 yard rushing games in the 23 other games he played for the Browns.
- Those three games were against Baltimore (first game, next game against Baltimore they held him to 35 yards rushing and 5 yards receiving), New England (which had the 25th worst defense in the league that year), and Carolina (which was on its way to a 2-14 finish on the season).
Consider also:
- In his career as a Brown, he had almost as many fumbles (10) as gains (on rushing or passing plays) of 20 yards or more (11).
- For comparison sake, Arian Foster had 33 plays of 20+ yards in 2010-11 and 8 fumbles (on 200+ more touches), Ray Rice had 24 20+ plays and 2 fumbles (200 more touches), Matt Forte had 33 20+ plays and 5 fumbles (30 more touches), Rashard Mendenhall had 17 20+ plays and 3 fumbles (80 more touches), and third round rookie Demarco Murray had 7 plays of 20+ yards and 1 fumble on 324 fewer touches.
Now, you can blame it on this or blame it on that - crappy QBing, bad OL, poor coaching, nose out of joint b/c of low-ball contract offer - but there is no denying that once you drill down a bit the production expected from a feature back in the NFL just isn't there.
Bottom line for me: There is a reason this player signed a free agent contract to play, mainly, fullback. As I've been saying since before last season even started - that's his position in the NFL. He sure as heck isn't a feature RB. SD: I don't get the hate for a kid who produced golden eggs outta sh!te in 2010 , he was all we had , and with no QB as a threat to do anything else produced 1700 yards of offense , when the defense knew he was coming and the Browns had no other legit threat . Idon't give a damn if you want to label him a FB H back hillbilly jack or a misplaced tackle running the damn ball , that was a tremendous amount of production under the circumstances . We in turn don't embrace this kid , we **** on him because we had ignorantly drafted his cough cough replacement in Hardesty . How'd that work out . Going forward they have to do better , no team can afford to discard productive play , or find a way to ingratiated that type of production into the program , nobody , least of all the Browns . You and Ham can foucu on the little picture and denegrate the kid all you want ,as his tail off last year gives you smug relief in that regard , but the point was his contract was mishandled , the Browns lost both a productive player they could build on a tradeable asset and caused turmoil in their own lockerroom in return for nothing . Out SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/6/2012 12:46 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
We in turn don't embrace this kid , we **** on him because we had ignorantly drafted his cough cough replacement in Hardesty .
Um, we drafted Hardesty before Hillis ever took a snap for the Browns. Hillis brought his 13 carries for 53 yards in 09 to be a backup/compliment to Jerome Harrison on that March day trade. U try and not reinvent history.
Hardesty was drafted to be the featured back and replacement for Harrison. Hillis was just a guy.
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Posted: 5/6/2012 12:50 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
When stating facts and my personal opinion about what a player's proper role in the NFL is equals "hating," than we've gone beyond honest football discussion and gotten into personalities. I won't go there because, frankly, it's not productive.
1/6/04 Rest in peace "Daddy Wags." May perpetual light shine upon you.
"It's alright to have a hitch in your swing, but when you have a flaw in your hitch, you're in trouble." - Leon Wagner |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 1:03 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
SD:
I don't get the hate for a kid who produced golden eggs outta sh!te in 2010 , he was all we had , and with no QB as a threat to do anything else produced 1700 yards of offense , when the defense knew he was coming and the Browns had no other legit threat .
AA:
And you keep writing that you don't get it after very compelling arguments have repeatedly answered it.
Hillis was just an updated Jerome Harrison. And Harrison went on to show us what a huge mistake it was to let him go (no wait, it WASN'T a mistake in the slightest). Hillis will have that same opportunity to redeem himself.
SD:
Idon't give a damn if you want to label him a FB H back hillbilly jack or a misplaced tackle running the damn ball , that was a tremendous amount of production under the circumstances .
AA:
As Wags pointed out, Peyton's production was spread out like Derek Anderson's (or Jerome's): a couple of huge games to pad a whole bunch of pedestrian outings to create the sense that 2010 was very good overall.
SD:
We in turn don't embrace this kid , we **** on him because we had ignorantly drafted his cough cough replacement in Hardesty .
AA:
Hardesty was drafted a month after Hillis was acquired in the Quinn trade.
Both were the by product of the "we're soooo convinced that Jerome Harrison is our feature back that we got these guys" bandwagon. At the time Hardesty was drafted, the Browns had little idea of what they had in Hillis. But when Hardesty was injured, the job was up for grabs in preseason, and Hillis did well while Harrison withered.
SD:
How'd that work out .
AA:
Hardesty is still a Brown while Hillis will be wearing red.
SD:
... but the point was his contract was mishandled , the Browns lost both a productive player they could build on a tradeable asset and caused turmoil in their own lockerroom in return for nothing .
AA:
I'm sorry, WHO caused turmoil in the locker room? The front office or Mister "I can't play Sunday cuz I have a sore throat" or "hi, I'll miss practice this week cuz I'm gettin' married in the morning... Oh, and you're not invited."?
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Posted: 5/6/2012 5:57 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
SD Let me know when you come out of that Rose colored glasses the FO can do nothing wrong personna cocoon you've wrapped your self in so you can keep from being hurt and we can talk . H Nothing like starting off with another bad Pov & personal dig. So piss on ya then. I have NO rose colored glasses when looking at MH and CO. They haven't been perfect but FAR better than what you are willing to give them credit for. If my glasses are rose colored, I'll take that over the bag you have put on yer head so at to ONLY see what you want. You want to hate therefore you will only hate. SD The RG3 fiasco is just that history , but lets not be so stoopid as to reinvent excuses for the Jackass who admits cocking off those negotiations by failling to go in with his best bid in the first place and subsequently getting his dumb ass beat like the trifling ho he really is.. H The fiasco is your one dimensional hate take. Take the bag off please or does it make you feel all snug and secure? Are you kidding? YEA, lets follow the lead of Daniel Snyder. The worst architect of a football team of all time (Well maybe Al Davis and since you pimped Jamarcus too it figures). To trump numb-nuts we would have given a way 4 top picks or more. Yea baby, RG3 & a knucklehead named Hillis without a top draft pick for at least THREE years was the ticket  . MH gave a better offer so deal with the fact they didn't take it. SD Told you a year before it happened it was a major blunder to put our eggs in the Mccoy basket and by pass a QB in the draft in the first place , which prompted our present scrambles to get what all teams must have a competent signal caller with legit NFL skillset . H You have told us MANY things over the years in regard to QB. Yer batting 300, to bad its not baseball. You missed far more on QBs than nailed it so get over yourself. Your hindsight and luck blows chunks. MH did right in getting Colt. He also did right in keeping him one year to let him prove himself. How long did it take other organizations like the Steelers to get their Big Ben? Ravens? Bengals? How many attempts and misses? How long has MH been here and what were the circumstances? OH, I know, that doesn't matter cause he is just a ho? We got outside of a few pieces a potential good team in 3 years. Not bad at all. SD Treating a third round Mutt like a franchise pick , without one iota of evidence was hubris and arrogant stoopidity beyond the nth degree , running Hillis instead of ingratiating and incorporating him into the roster was ham handed amatuerism , you have to handle your people better than that . H More spewed hate without any facts. He picked him in a lower round than what he was graded out to be in that draft by most. That gave him all the flexibility he needed with the pick. Colt could stay or go and it wouldn't hurt the team. He did what most experienced NFL people said was right in giving Colt a chance. You were a one man clown act saying different. To bad he was shorted of ANY tools excect Jethro eerrrr Peyton. He still may prove to be a valuable backup. No harm done whatsoever. SD Elite RB average $7 million per , a $10 million dollar bonus over five years with his minimum averaged just under $3.5 million for a running back who produced 2100 yards from scrimmage over two years , and was the most productive back in Cleveland on a bad year , caused by the disenchantment and resentment over a contentiuos contract negotiation . H Funny how you left out the "rest of the story" a RB who you call great is now running backup with duties of a lead blocker and all he could find from the entire NFL was under 3 Million. Are ya polishing his stature for Canton yet? Lol..... SD So you enjoy your neat little fantasy World , where all things are seal and Brown , and Holmgrens greasy farts smell like lilac water to ya . H While you wallow in a self created shite-hole complaining of the smell. BON APPETIT AmigoMy mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
Last edited 5/7/2012 12:51 AM by hamster
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Posted: 5/7/2012 9:36 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
SD Let me know when you come out of that Rose colored glasses the FO can do nothing wrong personna cocoon you've wrapped your self in so you can keep from being hurt and we can talk . H Nothing like starting off with another bad Pov & personal dig. So piss on ya then. I have NO rose colored glasses when looking at MH and CO. They haven't been perfect but FAR better than what you are willing to give them credit for. If my glasses are rose colored, I'll take that over the bag you have put on yer head so at to ONLY see what you want. You want to hate therefore you will only hate. SD The RG3 fiasco is just that history , but lets not be so stoopid as to reinvent excuses for the Jackass who admits cocking off those negotiations by failling to go in with his best bid in the first place and subsequently getting his dumb ass beat like the trifling ho he really is.. H The fiasco is your one dimensional hate take. Take the bag off please or does it make you feel all snug and secure? Are you kidding? YEA, lets follow the lead of Daniel Snyder. The worst architect of a football team of all time (Well maybe Al Davis and since you pimped Jamarcus too it figures). To trump numb-nuts we would have given a way 4 top picks or more. Yea baby, RG3 & a knucklehead named Hillis without a top draft pick for at least THREE years was the ticket . MH gave a better offer so deal with the fact they didn't take it. SD74 : You respond as a child who argues that babbies come from storks , you just can't face the reality it just aint so . ON McCoy you were dead wrong . I said the policy to annoint him sans competition was dead wrong and Colts play did not warrant an exclusive when you cried , cried for the poor baby to be given a chance along with a million more sheep . You were wrong Holmgren was wrong and the non compete policy has since been rescinded to allow competition for the job as it should be . However as Wallaces' about face shows , that #1 next to a QB's draft status brings its own pecking order to that game , so that comp won't last long unless Weeden falls down on his face which I don't see happening . On the RG3 negotiations , they were completely mishandled , it matters not your opinion that what was offered was more than what you were willing to pay , whats fact is Holmgren did not present his best offer in a one bid auction got beat admitted he had a better offer he didn't present and he lost ,a bid where the Browns had a clear advantage over all comers with two early #1's in this years draft . That failure changed the policy of this team and put the FO on the precipice of Randies firing line . The tradeup attempt was a completely botched gaffe . On Hillis , you can swallow the PR swill all you want , but those rancorous negotiations were preceeded by a low ball effort which turned an enthusiastic fan favorite and the Browns most productive player in a decade into a cancer and locker room distraction , and they did the same thing with Cribbs who also wasn't a pick they brought inas they played locker room politics . Your also whack on your contention about Cribbs value , the contract was before the league changed the rules , and he and Hester were the league leaders on returns and Cribbs was coming off an All Pro apperance had been promised raises by two administrations and the owner and had performed ,bided his time and was due his raise , Holmgren showed a lack of integrity in dangling him over the rail on deal and then eventually doing the right thing only after fan opinion eviscerated his stance to low ball Josh . Thats your hero , a bumbling stumbling failed executive whose made enough mistakes to be fired a half dozen times . It ain't hate its a fact . Just like babies don't come from Storks . SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/7/2012 9:55 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
lbsouth1 wrote: We in turn don't embrace this kid , we **** on him because we had ignorantly drafted his cough cough replacement in Hardesty .
Um, we drafted Hardesty before Hillis ever took a snap for the Browns. Hillis brought his 13 carries for 53 yards in 09 to be a backup/compliment to Jerome Harrison on that March day trade. U try and not reinvent history.
Hardesty was drafted to be the featured back and replacement for Harrison. Hillis was just a guy. SD: Boyee are you dumb . Hillis exasperated the pick of Hardesty and magnified it as the idiot pick of the year blowing three picks on a injuried running back who long before the Browns first meaningful game came up ..... You guessed it Injuried , lost for the entire damn year . With every run Hillis made that pick look dumber and dumber and dumber , that draft status choice got pecking order considerations in the Hillis contract negotiations thru no fault of his own the Browns didn't want to pay him after investing so much in Hardesty in picks and cash.. Hillis was treated as a free agent pickup instead of treated like the great find who out performed any of our drafted running backs since the time of Mack and Byner eclipsing Willie Greens marks as a second round pick . They love their picks , treated McCoy as a franchise pick which was unwarranted simply because Holmgren drafted him , while treating vets who came in under Mangina like Dog **** on their loafers as evidenced by first the Cribbs negotiations and then the Hillis botched up deal . It was clear team politics in play , and you dummies can't see it and choose to ignore it while you suck on the PR Kool aid . SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:14 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
daddywags wrote: When stating facts and my personal opinion about what a player's proper role in the NFL is equals "hating," than we've gone beyond honest football discussion and gotten into personalities. I won't go there because, frankly, it's not productive. SD: Thats fine you shouldn't engage in it . Which was more to my point of surprise why so many people swallowed the FO spiel and about Hillis , overlooking the fact the FO was the reason for his bipolar behavior . The Browns disrespected this kid , who is butt a simple Country boyee , they turned an asset into a liability which is just the opposite of how you handle your people . You put your arm around that kid and blow some smoke his way and call him a core player and part of your family and tell him we're gonna pay you more than we would normally go , but we want some flexibility with how we use you , and let him swallow the bait , and thus you add a kid who will break his back for ya . But not us , We give lip service to signing key players in the press , and then reward Gocong the hump who didn't have a starting position to a long term deal before Hillis the most productive player of the year before . It was a slap in his face , clear favoritism for Heckerts people being rewarded first over former Mangina guys and completely out of line in the pecking order of the lockerroom , prompting the contentious negotiationswhile duplicting the same rancor stirred up during the Cribbs mishandled deal. It was Ham handed amatuerism at its worst and an easy fix a Parcells or a Mumbles or a number of more competent execs would have gotten done . SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:28 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
SD:
I don't get the hate for a kid who produced golden eggs outta sh!te in 2010 , he was all we had , and with no QB as a threat to do anything else produced 1700 yards of offense , when the defense knew he was coming and the Browns had no other legit threat .
AA:
And you keep writing that you don't get it after very compelling arguments have repeatedly answered it.
Hillis was just an updated Jerome Harrison. And Harrison went on to show us what a huge mistake it was to let him go (no wait, it WASN'T a mistake in the slightest). Hillis will have that same opportunity to redeem himself.
SD74 :
your comparison of Hillis to james Harrison is ignorant and stoopid .
Harrison would go down if you breathed hard on him and dwasn't able to play a full season of games in three years due to injry .,
Hillis had the most production by a Brown since the Kosar era and ws all the browns had in a year where the QB play and passing game was in the bottom of the league .
He carried that team .
AA:
Hardesty was drafted a month after Hillis was acquired in the Quinn trade.
Both were the by product of the "we're soooo convinced that Jerome Harrison is our feature back that we got these guys" bandwagon. At the time Hardesty was drafted, the Browns had little idea of what they had in Hillis. But when Hardesty was injured, the job was up for grabs in preseason, and Hillis did well while Harrison withered.
SD:
How'd that work out .
AA:
Hardesty is still a Brown while Hillis will be wearing red.
SD74:
Correct Cookie , and he has so much value , the Browns just spent 4 picks to replace him .
Hillis could have been resigned for one third of the cost of TR's contract , and if he was on the roster , the Bowns would have been ble to ad TR while saving threepicks as they would have been in a better egotiating stance to call the Vikes bluff , or trade out and work the draft to their advantage adding a Blackmon and another second round pick to match up with their QB while securing a top flight RB in which there were plenty in this draft in a league where you need more than one good one and a position which has been significantly devalued as the passing game takes precedent .
Hillis and TR would be infinitly preferable to TR and don't make me laugh Hardesty .
SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:35 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
Give it up, SD. The Browns didn't turn Hillis into a locker room cancer. They wouldn't give him the big contract he thought he deserved, so he sulked and pouted and eventually spurned their more-than-fair offer to shop his wares on the open market. It was strictly a business decision on his part, one that many players take over the course of their careers.
Now he's on a one-year deal where his main role will be as a lead blocker, same thing he did in college. He's come full circle. Like Brex said, even Tampa, a team that was eyeing Richardson and then traded up for a RB, wasn't interested. You wanted the Browns to give him a 5-year deal? Nobody else in the league would give him two.
Brex did a great job of breaking down the numbers. The comparison to Jerome Harrison and DA was perfect. All three players benefitted from a few huge games, but when you look at their game-to-game production they're exposed as average players at best. Hillis benefitted from a perfect storm of being in the right system for his talents in a year where he managed to stay healthy. As Brex pointed out, two of his three big games came against weak defenses, just like Harrison's near record 290 yard game came against a putrid run defense.
By the way, 2100 yards in two seasons breaks down to 66 yards per game, and that includes pass receptions. Whoop-de-doo.
With regard to the RG3 deal, I just realized it, but the Browns offer was indeed better than what the Redskins offered. The Browns were giving up the #4 pick as opposed to the Redskins #6. The Browns had to give up three picks to move up from #4 to #3, which is pretty close to what it would cost to move up from #6 to #4. Or, you could give up a 2nd round pick to move up from #6 to #4 and that would be cheap.
So, the Browns #4 pick is equal to the Redskins #6 plus their 2nd round pick this year. So far, the offers are even. The Browns also offered 1st round picks in 2012 and 2013, while the Redskins offered 1st round picks in 2013 and 2014. Advantage Browns. Holmgren was correct in saying his offer was every bit as good or better than the deal the Rams took. So if you want to say that Holmgren got beat like a "trifling ho" on that deal, I'm saying your opinion is colored by your hatred from the man and is not based on the facts.
I'm happy the Rams took the Skins offer. If they took the Browns offer of three 1st round picks, we would have RG3 instead of Weeden at QB, but no Trent Richardson and no 1st round pick next year.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:47 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
Hillis could have been resigned for one third of the cost of TR's contract , and if he was on the roster , the Bowns would have been ble to ad TR while saving threepicks as they would have been in a better egotiating stance to call the Vikes bluff , or trade out and work the draft to their advantage adding a Blackmon and another second round pick to match up with their QB while securing a top flight RB in which there were plenty in this draft in a league where you need more than one good one and a position which has been significantly devalued as the passing game takes precedent .
Hillis could not have been resigned without grossly overpaying him. He had offers from the Browns and decided to turn them down, burn his bridges and leave in search of the $10 million payday. He could have gotten more money from the Browns and his job description would not have involved lead blocking.
You're right in that the Browns could have called the Vikings bluff. Possibly the Vikes thought that if they traded down with Tampa the Browns would trade down and someone else would get Kalil at #4. It would have been a gamble. If Tampa moved up for TR and the Browns wanted to trade out of the #4 spot they would probably have to move down further than they wanted and miss out on Claiborne and Blackmon. With 13 picks they could afford to give up three of them to make sure they got Richardson. Whether Hillis was on the roster had nothing to do with it.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 11:01 AM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
>>Hillis could have been resigned for one third of the cost of TR's contract<<
The third pick in last year's draft signed for 4 years and $20 million total. >>Marcell Dareus can finally put his offseason lawn-mowing job behind him now that the rookie first-round round draft pick has signed his contract with the Buffalo Bills.
The hulking defensive lineman, selected third overall out of Alabama, signed a four-year, $20.4 million contract and arrived at training camp in time for the team's first conditioning session at training camp in suburban Rochester on Friday.<<
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_...eal-source-says
I seem to recall reports that we offered Hillis a three year contract worth about $15 million and he turned it down flat. Seems to me we'd have had to have given him at least Trent Richardson money to satisfy him. He isn't worth that and the league has now confirmed that he isn't worth that.
1/6/04 Rest in peace "Daddy Wags." May perpetual light shine upon you.
"It's alright to have a hitch in your swing, but when you have a flaw in your hitch, you're in trouble." - Leon Wagner
Last edited 5/7/2012 11:39 AM by daddywags
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Posted: 5/7/2012 12:03 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
.daddywags wrote: >>Hillis could have been resigned for one third of the cost of TR's contract<<
The third pick in last year's draft signed for 4 years and $20 million total.
>>Marcell Dareus can finally put his offseason lawn-mowing job behind him now that the rookie first-round round draft pick has signed his contract with the Buffalo Bills.
The hulking defensive lineman, selected third overall out of Alabama, signed a four-year, $20.4 million contract and arrived at training camp in time for the team's first conditioning session at training camp in suburban Rochester on Friday.<<
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_...eal-source-says
I seem to recall reports that we offered Hillis a three year contract worth about $15 million and he turned it down flat. Seems to me we'd have had to have given him at least Trent Richardson money to satisfy him. He isn't worth that and the league has now confirmed that he isn't worth that.
SD: On Hillis Only the bonus was guaranteed in the case of Richardson all of his contract will be essentially guaranteed as the CBA changed that landsacpe where players receive more guaranteed money for the length of their four year term which in total doesn't amount to single signing bonuses of the past , The signing bonus in that deal overall amounted to the 3 million KC gave him , minimum it should have been 6 splitting the difference which would have amortizied the cap hit for less, bringing him under contract early last year and kept him in the fold prior to the draft . The three was a slap and an insult. We would have had none of the rancor and discourse of last year and more production with a valuable asset in place this year going forward before the start of the draft ,. Instead we created a gaping hole which had to be filled ,hamperig the flexibility we could have utilized to better our position in the draft while maximizing our own position to greater effect SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/7/2012 12:47 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
SD :
your comparison of Hillis to james Harrison is ignorant and stoopid .
Harrison would go down if you breathed hard on him
AA:
Sigh.
What Hillis and Harrison had in common was not their physical abilities. It was the club's attitude toward them as long term options despite their having short bursts of great production.
In both instances, the Browns weren't sold. As they say, time will tell, and it certainly has for Harrison as he has since done nothing. We'll see about Hillis, but given the choice of TR and Peyton, I doubt the Fantasy League types this fall will be opting for Mister CoughItUp.
AA:
Hardesty is still a Brown while Hillis will be wearing red.
SD:
Correct Cookie , and he has so much value , the Browns just spent 4 picks to replace him .
AA:
What a coincidence! That's what the Browns would have spent to acquire Griffin, and I sure don't see you getting the vapors over that.
SD:
Hillis could have been resigned for one third of the cost of TR's contract , and if he was on the roster , the Bowns would have been ble to ad TR while saving threepicks as they would have been in a better egotiating stance to call the Vikes bluff , or trade out and work the draft to their advantage adding a Blackmon and another second round pick to match up with their QB while securing a top flight RB in which there were plenty in this draft in a league where you need more than one good one and a position which has been significantly devalued as the passing game takes precedent .
AA:
Uh, what good would having resigned Hillis at 1/3rd of TR's contract (a dubious notion already shot down elsewhere) if the team would have drafted Richardson anyway, or used another high pick on a rb?
SD:
Hillis and TR would be infinitly preferable to TR and don't make me laugh Hardesty .
AA:
This will be Hardesty's make or break year. He'll now head into this season with his knee injury two years behind him. And his contract is preferable to what Peyton was jonesin' for.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 12:58 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
SD:
Hillis and TR would be infinitly preferable to TR and don't make me laugh Hardesty .
AA:
This will be Hardesty's make or break year. He'll now head into this season with his knee injury two years behind him. And his contract is preferable to what Peyton was jonesin' for.
SD74:
Hardesty has no sjhake no bake and no breakaway straight line speed is injury prone overpaid , can't catch and is a clear bust for the expenditures used to aquire him , other than the fact he can't carry Hilli's Jock strap in terms of production or toughness as a running back let alone a receiver out of the backfield he's just great .
The Browns thought so much of his abilities they used multiple picks in a trade up to replace him .
SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 5/7/2012 1:02 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
I understand what you're saying about the guaranteed money and you are correct. However, I just don't get how us giving the guy twice as much guaranteed money as any other team in the NFL thought he was worth - just so he won't go all pouty on us - makes us smart, especially if you concede that we were going to draft his replacement anyway.
Even if we had given him a $50 million all guaranteed contract, he's still Peyton Hillis and he's still a below average running back whose best position is fullback, no matter how many times you say "1700 yards!".
1/6/04 Rest in peace "Daddy Wags." May perpetual light shine upon you.
"It's alright to have a hitch in your swing, but when you have a flaw in your hitch, you're in trouble." - Leon Wagner |
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Posted: 5/7/2012 1:18 PM
RE: Vikings GM says Browns did the right thing
PROSECUTOR wrote: Give it up, SD. The Browns didn't turn Hillis into a locker room cancer. They wouldn't give him the big contract he thought he deserved, so he sulked and pouted and eventually spurned their more-than-fair offer to shop his wares on the open market. It was strictly a business decision on his part, one that many players take over the course of their careers.
Now he's on a one-year deal where his main role will be as a lead blocker, same thing he did in college. He's come full circle. Like Brex said, even Tampa, a team that was eyeing Richardson and then traded up for a RB, wasn't interested. You wanted the Browns to give him a 5-year deal? Nobody else in the league would give him two.
Brex did a great job of breaking down the numbers. The comparison to Jerome Harrison and DA was perfect. All three players benefitted from a few huge games, but when you look at their game-to-game production they're exposed as average players at best. Hillis benefitted from a perfect storm of being in the right system for his talents in a year where he managed to stay healthy. As Brex pointed out, two of his three big games came against weak defenses, just like Harrison's near record 290 yard game came against a putrid run defense.
By the way, 2100 yards in two seasons breaks down to 66 yards per game, and that includes pass receptions. Whoop-de-doo.
With regard to the RG3 deal, I just realized it, but the Browns offer was indeed better than what the Redskins offered. The Browns were giving up the #4 pick as opposed to the Redskins #6. The Browns had to give up three picks to move up from #4 to #3, which is pretty close to what it would cost to move up from #6 to #4. Or, you could give up a 2nd round pick to move up from #6 to #4 and that would be cheap.
So, the Browns #4 pick is equal to the Redskins #6 plus their 2nd round pick this year. So far, the offers are even. The Browns also offered 1st round picks in 2012 and 2013, while the Redskins offered 1st round picks in 2013 and 2014. Advantage Browns. Holmgren was correct in saying his offer was every bit as good or better than the deal the Rams took. So if you want to say that Holmgren got beat like a "trifling ho" on that deal, I'm saying your opinion is colored by your hatred from the man and is not based on the facts.
I'm happy the Rams took the Skins offer. If they took the Browns offer of three 1st round picks, we would have RG3 instead of Weeden at QB, but no Trent Richardson and no 1st round pick next year. SD: I bet you were all happy as a clam little colt looked to have a reprieve after the failed RG3 bid , which has nothing to do with nothing . Too bad for you Weeden ended that fantasy before it starts while Seneca works overtime to seal that coffin and throw dirt on the corpse lest the Browns be so stoopid as to bring back their sister to play QB. This is not about your glee that the RG3 bid failed or your idiot agreement with Brex comparing Hillis to Harrison , which is flat out stoopid interms of which each brought to the table in production performance and a legit factor as a back . Hillis was respected by the leagues best defenses , because he brought a load and ran down hill , No less than the Rats themselves give him respect His contract offer was mismanaged ill conceived and bungled from beginning to end , as bad as Holmgrens public butt whippin over the failed RG3 bid . If you weren't so eager to lap up every drop of the Brown PR Kool Aid , you'd take a closer look at the swill your gulping , while smaking your lips in jubilation about how good it was. The Hillis divorce was both distasteful and unnecessary and he was crammed for political reasons under the guise of fiscal responsibility and run. SoulDawg WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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