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Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate

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Posted: 3/10/2012 1:59 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


SD, I love your passion and mostly agree to a certain point ...but your venting to the wrong people here on the OBR. Scream it out to where the right people or person will see it. 

We WILL get this right in 2014
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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:39 AM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



FEVAH wrote: SD, I love your passion and mostly agree to a certain point ...but your venting to the wrong people here on the OBR. Scream it out to where the right people or person will see it.
SD:

He who has a thing to sell does not whisper in a well .

I'm not screaming or venting , I'm selling this Farce of a show.

lerner and the Browns just got played by a slimey pimp , with intent.

This was no accident this was planned insubordinate sabotage and a firing offense .

Now you take it where ever you think it needs to go so that message can be made loud and clear or don't  it will find its way without ya.

But don't tell me how to do what I must do !


SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:44 AM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


Soul,
There's another view.

Who played who in this bid?

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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:49 AM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



Lumpy wrote:

Soul,
There's another view.

Who played who in this bid?

SD:

the pimp played us Lump ...............

The rest is damage control
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 3/11/2012 12:11 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



SoulDawg74 wrote:
FEVAH wrote: SD, I love your passion and mostly agree to a certain point ...but your venting to the wrong people here on the OBR. Scream it out to where the right people or person will see it.
SD:

He who has a thing to sell does not whisper in a well .

I'm not screaming or venting , I'm selling this Farce of a show.

lerner and the Browns just got played by a slimey pimp , with intent.

This was no accident this was planned insubordinate sabotage and a firing offense .

Now you take it where ever you think it needs to go so that message can be made loud and clear or don't  it will find its way without ya.

But don't tell me how to do what I must do !


SoulDawg
We went through this back when we traded to the Nyets and they picked Mark Sanchez, remember?

Not picking on ya, SD but you had Sanchez down as the greatest thing since Sammy Baugh.

I tried to tell you then, and I'm trying to ya now, the team makes the QB look good much, much more often than vice versa. 

I told you, Sanchez was a 'nice' QB but nothing special.  I was right (as usual) and there was even rumors about how the Jets want to unload Sanchez.  And they were more than rumors.  (Bottom of page)

Look at Vick, a true Sooperstar.  On a supposed 'Dream Team'.

Guess how that worked out?

RG3 is a nice player, a remarkable athlete and an excellent QB but he played in an Offense that nobody in the NFL uses and he's gonna take time to develop -- If he ever does.  He probably will but if he doesn't...  The 'Skins are screwed for the next ten years.  Or five, at least.

Giving away your future for an unproven commodity isn't what building a Football is all about.  That's a gamble, a hope and a prayer, a roll of the dice.

And Grown Ups just don't do that.  Or shouldn't.

We've had enough of waiting for a Pied Piper to come along and save us from ourselves.  What we need is for some Grown Ups to realize that ain't gonna happen and build a real Football Team -- With real Football Players.

Not with Pied Pipers. 

Speaking of dreamers.....  The Nyets just extended Sanchez' contract.

Know why?  Because Peyton told them to take a hike, is my guess.  And prolly much more than a guess
"Reject those voices that tell you to be cynical about government" ~ Some Moron
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Posted: 3/11/2012 12:23 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


You know its funny, everybody is down on Sanchez. And the Jets were definitely looking at Manning.

But they didn't need to extend Sanchez' contract.

They did that because he's a pretty good QB that's still very young.

Most QBs take time to mature.

As far as what grown ups do.....they find franchise QBs. The cost is irrelevant. If you stumble onto one in the 6th round or you pay a jacked up price for an Eli Manning, the only thing that matters is that you get one.

Whatever the Browns have been doing, it hasn't worked. They've tried Couch and Quinn from the first round, MCcoy and Frye further down in the draft, DA off the waiver wire, and free agents like Garcia and Dilfer. They've tried all the various methods, but what they haven't done is succeeded.

It's not about being grown up, it's about being right.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 3/11/2012 12:43 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



Gameface64 wrote: You know its funny, everybody is down on Sanchez. And the Jets were definitely looking at Manning.

But they didn't need to extend Sanchez' contract.

They did that because he's a pretty good QB that's still very young.

Most QBs take time to mature.

As far as what grown ups do.....they find franchise QBs. The cost is irrelevant. If you stumble onto one in the 6th round or you pay a jacked up price for an Eli Manning, the only thing that matters is that you get one.

Whatever the Browns have been doing, it hasn't worked. They've tried Couch and Quinn from the first round, MCcoy and Frye further down in the draft, DA off the waiver wire, and free agents like Garcia and Dilfer. They've tried all the various methods, but what they haven't done is succeeded.

It's not about being grown up, it's about being right.
The Team is what makes the QB, not the other way around.

Name me a HOF QB that didn't have a GREAT Football Team around him.  Marino?  Maybe.  He had a few good teams around him but not consistently.  When Peyton won the SB he had a VERY good team around him.

Joe Montana was a system QB, Steve Young proved that.  Neither was a very high draft pick.

Terry Bradshaw?  Anybody gonna vote for Bradshaw as a 'great' QB?  I think he threw the ball 12 times in his first SB victory...(?)

Tom Brady?  How come every team missed him a total of 198 times before he was picked?

I will grant you, there are some slam-dunk, out of sight future HOF QBs that carried their teams -- Peyton Manning being one, but other than him?  Today?  Currently playing?

I can't think of a single one that 'makes' the team and not the other way around.

I mean, Tom Brady went down in the first game of the season a few years ago and Belichick STILL went 11-5!!

Matt Flynn came in for Aaron Rodgers and looked like.... Well, he looked like Aaron Rodgers.  But he isn't.

I'd like to have a QB that we could all point to and say, "Future HOFer" but you can't put a QB on the Field and expect him to do much without a Team around him.

I almost feel sorry for RG3.  Seems like a good kid.  

And I don't wanna hear about how we can 'build around' a QB.  Are we refusing to build a running game out of spite?  Because we don't have a QB?  Are we refusing to draft a WR because we don't have a QB?  I mean, Terrel Owens sent Cherry Garcia to the Pro Bowl fer chrissakes.  Randy Moss even made Daunte Culpepper look like an NFL QB for a couple seasons.

There is no "Magic Bullet", no messiah-QB gonna lead us to the Promised Land.

We need Football Players.  Several of them
"Reject those voices that tell you to be cynical about government" ~ Some Moron
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Posted: 3/11/2012 12:59 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



bw wrote:
Gameface64 wrote: You know its funny, everybody is down on Sanchez. And the Jets were definitely looking at Manning.

But they didn't need to extend Sanchez' contract.

They did that because he's a pretty good QB that's still very young.

Most QBs take time to mature.

As far as what grown ups do.....they find franchise QBs. The cost is irrelevant. If you stumble onto one in the 6th round or you pay a jacked up price for an Eli Manning, the only thing that matters is that you get one.

Whatever the Browns have been doing, it hasn't worked. They've tried Couch and Quinn from the first round, MCcoy and Frye further down in the draft, DA off the waiver wire, and free agents like Garcia and Dilfer. They've tried all the various methods, but what they haven't done is succeeded.

It's not about being grown up, it's about being right.
The Team is what makes the QB, not the other way around.

Name me a HOF QB that didn't have a GREAT Football Team around him.  Marino?  Maybe.  He had a few good teams around him but not consistently.  When Peyton won the SB he had a VERY good team around him.

Joe Montana was a system QB, Steve Young proved that.  Neither was a very high draft pick.

Terry Bradshaw?  Anybody gonna vote for Bradshaw as a 'great' QB?  I think he threw the ball 12 times in his first SB victory...(?)

Tom Brady?  How come every team missed him a total of 198 times before he was picked?

I will grant you, there are some slam-dunk, out of sight future HOF QBs that carried their teams -- Peyton Manning being one, but other than him?  Today?  Currently playing?

I can't think of a single one that 'makes' the team and not the other way around.

I mean, Tom Brady went down in the first game of the season a few years ago and Belichick STILL went 11-5!!

Matt Flynn came in for Aaron Rodgers and looked like.... Well, he looked like Aaron Rodgers.  But he isn't.

I'd like to have a QB that we could all point to and say, "Future HOFer" but you can't put a QB on the Field and expect him to do much without a Team around him.

I almost feel sorry for RG3.  Seems like a good kid.  

And I don't wanna hear about how we can 'build around' a QB.  Are we refusing to build a running game out of spite?  Because we don't have a QB?  Are we refusing to draft a WR because we don't have a QB?  I mean, Terrel Owens sent Cherry Garcia to the Pro Bowl fer chrissakes.  Randy Moss even made Daunte Culpepper look like an NFL QB for a couple seasons.

There is no "Magic Bullet", no messiah-QB gonna lead us to the Promised Land.

We need Football Players.  Several of them
SD:

i have no argument  Wit you bw because your an insane old twit , whose full of Sheeit and can't help that life has made you a Jackass .

You can't win in todays game without an elite premiere signal caller .

Thats the facts which cannot be over looked right here right now .

thats the trend of todays game and thats the rules.

The past is the past what worked then won't work now .

I said keep the 5th pick and draft Sanchez I was right he was better than  Quinn and Andeson and would havegiven us three years of stability and solid play minimum , more if they built a team around him , but instead three years later we still have no Qb and justgot pants  by a dwarf who brought in a step stool supplied by Holmgren so the Cleveland Browns Fanchise could get F u c k ed in the ass .

but you so old and stoopid you thought it was a french tickler to get you warmed up .

Its over , clean up that crap running down your leg  and go back to your rocker , with your irrelevant ass.

Your a Browns fan and this franchise no longer matters.

News


SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 3/11/2012 1:07 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


I don't disagree with you, you need the QB AND the team. But hear me out: the QB position takes the longest time to mature.

Your window to a championship starts to open when you have the QB. You can build the team for awhile if circumstances don't present the QB opportunity. But you can't do that year after year, because if you get the QB last, the team won't still be good enough when he's ready. Is Joe Thomas 30 this year? We get a QB next year and give him 3 years to get good, you're gonna need a new LT. How long will DQ be good? Or Rubin? Or even Mack? When you cook a meal, you time out the main course and work the side dishes around that. The Browns are making sides and have no idea what the featured dish even is. The really fresh stuff is almost gone, if we don't get that, we can try to make something good with the day old flounder..... it might turn out, or it might not, in which case we'll try again next year. Everybody will be over their food poisoning by then, rah!

And that's the diff between RG3, or Cam Newton, and a Weeden/Tannehil type. Griffin will make plays next year on physical skill alone. He'll help the team be competitive while he learns. Look what Newton did last year, the Panthers record was ******, but Carolina knows they're trending up. You think free agents notice? You think the team and fan base are energized? Guys like Tannehil or Weeden or going to take a couple years just to get up to speed.

I always hold out hope for the Browns, but for the last 12 years, I know I'm wishing more than expecting.

EDIT: Joe Montana was one of the best QBs ever. Young doesn't disprove that, he was a great also. They don't win **** without Montana.....imo. That winning tradition carried over to the later teams. I guess by your standard Walsh wasn't a great coach, Sieffert proved that.
>>> Decleater <<<

Last edited 3/11/2012 1:10 PM by Gameface64

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Posted: 3/11/2012 1:12 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


Then what happened to the Nyets last year?  They stunk.  Bad.

In 2010 you were singing the praises of Josh Freeman.  What happened to him?

I'll tell what happened to both Sanchez and Freeman -- The Teams around them weren't quite as good as before...  Funny how that works

Go look at Eli Manning's 2010 performance ratings.

Funny, how when the team is strong, so are the QBs numbers.  And when the Team is weak....??

Very, very few (very few) QBs are capable of performing well without a great team around them.  Brady and Peyton come to mind but NOT Eli.  No way, no how.

Do you think RG3 is in the same category with Tom Brady and Eli Manning? 

It's possible, I guess.

It's also possible you may some day get a football prediction right.  banghead
"Reject those voices that tell you to be cynical about government" ~ Some Moron
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Posted: 3/11/2012 1:22 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



Gameface64 wrote: I don't disagree with you, you need the QB AND the team. But hear me out: the QB position takes the longest time to mature.

Your window to a championship starts to open when you have the QB. You can build the team for awhile if circumstances don't present the QB opportunity. But you can't do that year after year, because if you get the QB last, the team won't still be good enough when he's ready. Is Joe Thomas 30 this year? We get a QB next year and give him 3 years to get good, you're gonna need a new LT. How long will DQ be good? Or Rubin? Or even Mack? When you cook a meal, you time out the main course and work the side dishes around that. The Browns are making sides and have no idea what the featured dish even is. The really fresh stuff is almost gone, if we don't get that, we can try to make something good with the day old flounder..... it might turn out, or it might not, in which case we'll try again next year. Everybody will be over their food poisoning by then, rah!

And that's the diff between RG3, or Cam Newton, and a Weeden/Tannehil type. Griffin will make plays next year on physical skill alone. He'll help the team be competitive while he learns. Look what Newton did last year, the Panthers record was ******, but Carolina knows they're trending up. You think free agents notice? You think the team and fan base are energized? Guys like Tannehil or Weeden or going to take a couple years just to get up to speed.

I always hold out hope for the Browns, but for the last 12 years, I know I'm wishing more than expecting.

EDIT: Joe Montana was one of the best QBs ever. Young doesn't disprove that, he was a great also. They don't win **** without Montana.....imo. That winning tradition carried over to the later teams. I guess by your standard Walsh wasn't a great coach, Sieffert proved that.
dewd, look what Tebow did for Denver last year!!  Think he's an elite QB?

But that IS Leadership with a capital 'L'.  Elite QB?  

Montana was a system QB, period.  Steve Young was a USFL refugee and a failure at Tampa until Bill Walsh and a SUPERB San Fran team made his career.

Good for him.  Good for both of them.  Both were system QBs.

You do need a good QB to win a Sooper Bowl.  I mean, guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson don't grow on trees so we'll just have to suffer through another year until we can get our very own Doug Williams or Jeff Hostetler

tongue
"Reject those voices that tell you to be cynical about government" ~ Some Moron
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Posted: 3/11/2012 3:48 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



Gameface64 wrote: I don't disagree with you, you need the QB AND the team. But hear me out: the QB position takes the longest time to mature.

Your window to a championship starts to open when you have the QB. You can build the team for awhile if circumstances don't present the QB opportunity. But you can't do that year after year, because if you get the QB last, the team won't still be good enough when he's ready. Is Joe Thomas 30 this year? We get a QB next year and give him 3 years to get good, you're gonna need a new LT. How long will DQ be good? Or Rubin? Or even Mack? When you cook a meal, you time out the main course and work the side dishes around that. The Browns are making sides and have no idea what the featured dish even is. The really fresh stuff is almost gone, if we don't get that, we can try to make something good with the day old flounder..... it might turn out, or it might not, in which case we'll try again next year. Everybody will be over their food poisoning by then, rah!

And that's the diff between RG3, or Cam Newton, and a Weeden/Tannehil type. Griffin will make plays next year on physical skill alone. He'll help the team be competitive while he learns. Look what Newton did last year, the Panthers record was ******, but Carolina knows they're trending up. You think free agents notice? You think the team and fan base are energized? Guys like Tannehil or Weeden or going to take a couple years just to get up to speed.

I always hold out hope for the Browns, but for the last 12 years, I know I'm wishing more than expecting.

EDIT: Joe Montana was one of the best QBs ever. Young doesn't disprove that, he was a great also. They don't win **** without Montana.....imo. That winning tradition carried over to the later teams. I guess by your standard Walsh wasn't a great coach, Sieffert proved that.
Young was a very good QB and some respects better than Montana. He was less brittle and suspect to injury but was sacked 290 times--most in 49ers history. That implies the later '49ers (91-98) under Young had OLs as bad as the '99-11 Browns.

The problem was Seifert could not win a sausage until the Pass Defense was shored up. 92 and 93 they lost b/c of  bad D, even though they were 14-2 and then 10-6 both years. They had to go FA and that put them over the top for 94.

Would have been interesting to see if the Steelers-49ers would have matched up that year. "Youngstown Bowl."
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Posted: 3/11/2012 3:49 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


Carolina still is crappy at 6-10.
:) :) :)
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Posted: 3/11/2012 3:56 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 



kosartoslaughter wrote: Carolina still is crappy at 6-10.
:) :) :)
SD:

The offense doesn't play defense , they scored more in their first 4 games verse stiffer competition than we did in our first ten .

We averaged 13 points a game they were doing that much in the first quarter with a rookie .

Colt is so bad people look at his play shake there head and come away convinced , nobody can be that bad it must be everybody else on the team .

I mean nobody would trot out  a dog sheeit talent like that and hand him the keys to the franchise would they ....who does that .


SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 3/11/2012 3:59 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


Dilfer and Johnson won one super bowl each.

Guys like Brady and Manning and Warner and Manning seem to get there more frequently.

Dilfer makes my argument, not yours. How good were those Raven teams on defense, at rushing, and still they fell short year after year. Same with the Steelers until they got Rothliesberger.

If you're campaigning for flukes, have at it.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 3/11/2012 4:02 PM

Re: Lerner really should fire Holmgrens theiving insubordinate 


Point on a graph. Is the graph headed down or up? Whatcha think?

Our graph is a flat line between 4 and 6 wins a year. I'd trade the Panther roster for ours in a nanosecond.
>>> Decleater <<<
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