Keouk,

I like Marty and wanted him to be our HC when Butcha left. He is disciplined and gets the most out of his players within his scheme.  Marty has his guys following his dictates, but doesn't allow for any in play adjustment. If there is a failing it is Marty's demand that all plays be run as Marty designed and demands. PB had the same structured demands.  the difference between Belichick and Schottenheimer is the what if coaching BB uses.  Every play is designed to go this way.....but what if.....then what do you do?  BB requires his on-field players to adjust to the happenings within the play.  This is a great departure from Bernie drawing up a play and tossing a TD to Langhorne.

Imo, Norv is the genius who just gets too tight when push comes to shove. With a part of my family as die-hard Skins fans, I am accustomed to hearing, Norv is just going to find a way to lose the close game.  Marty was done in by always going by the book. We will stay with the prevent defense. They can't go 98 yards. The book says so. Of course, the luck of having the ball deflect off the RB and into Elway's hands.  The 4th and forever miracle. And, oh never mind.

keokuk wrote: "Marty, had he gotten an OC, would have been able to keep it going--maybe no dynasty, but a 15-year run of greatness, a la Cowher and 1 SB. Team may not have moved."

-- Marty was good. Maybe Norv Turner good? In other words good, but not ready to win when he had to?

Hard to say. But he was good.

"Marty was done in by always going by the book. We will stay with the prevent defense. They can't go 98 yards. The book says so. Of course, the luck of having the ball deflect off the RB and into Elway's hands."

-- Ah yes, The Drive. God how the Browns coulda woulda shoulda won that game. I seem to still remember Browns players celebrating on the sidelines before the game was over. The Drive. Please.

The whole "change the play if the field situation demands it" thing is interesting. Shouldn't QBs have that power if they are smart and experienced? That was the norm for many years. Sometimes you can get too removed from reality up in a box I imagine. Not sure what the communication is between QBs and OCs, but it should be free-flowing and open if the QB and OC are intelligent.

Marty and Norv: Good enough to get you beat in big games?

The Mannings, Rogers, Brees. Brady's of the QB world change plays every series, it seems.  We don't, at least successfully.

Was Jeff Garcia the last QB on the Browns roster with sufficient understanding to be able to change plays?  not that he did, just was he the last QB who demonstrated the ability. Its been a long run of dummies.

"Its been a long run of dummies."

-- I guess so. QB is a position that begs for football intelligence and problem solving. Colt might be that guy, but I'm not sure he's big enough.

I like hard hits, but the thinking side of football is really attractive- as long as you don't get too carried away with it and start liking people just because they think a little.