Aardvark wrote: Sorry. Working furiously towards a deadline (though obviously not THAT furiously if I sneaked a quick peek here) before I take off for a locale where their idea of a sports bar would be 24/7 HILLYBILLY HANFISHIN' (that means no "10" following the Thursday game either).

Thought the last game produced plenty of discussion points and am frankly surprised folks here are still stuck in Eric the Dtouchebag mode.

Yankee... can't (*gasp*)... go on... pick up the flag...

Gameface64 wrote: Just like Vark, just missing the depth, the detail, and the dry humor.....

1. Owen Marcecik does not impress. Matter of fact, he dis-impressed me. Dude looks doughy and slow. Doesn't look like a blocker, a rusher or a receiver. And sure as hell doesn't look like an NFL linebacker. We passed on Casey Matthews for that?

2. Jordan Cameron, or Cameron Jordan, is not going to be the next Antonio Gates without some major seasoning. He's got a ways to go before he can back up Evan Moore.

3. Second preseason game and the injury bug is chewing on the seams of the roster. Precautionary, no sweat. But when Ray Ventrone is a starting safety, your team has issues. For all of us who wanted some FA action, heads be shaking.

4. Speaking of FA action, what if this team using the cake opening schedule and the improved offense to spring off to a great start, and then totally collapses due to injuries and the lack of vet depth. Wouldn't that be a b i t c h?

5. I keyed on Maiava for a while. On the first series he got punked a bit, but he looked better as he got more reps. He's built enough, and has some speed.

6. Hey, I saw DQ make a tackle behind the LOS! No, really! (Nobody in the lockerroom better even look at DQ's pecs, if he stays healthy, he'll be a better MLB than he's shown to date).

7. Haden got toasted three times in a hurry. Don't read those press clips just yet, Joe. He did bust Burleson once, and got up in his face about it.

8. I thought Shurmur was channeling Mangini by starting Alex Smith at TE. I realize Watson was injured, but really? Then Smith showed his stuff by dropping the first ball thrown to him.

9. Our third team sucks. That's relative to all third teams, so they suck really, really hard.

10. Inefficient efficiency. Sloppy, but on point at the critical moment. Efficiency is good. We may have forgotten what it looked like.

Gameface64 wrote: Just like Vark, just missing the depth, the detail, and the dry humor.....

1. Owen Marcecik does not impress. Matter of fact, he dis-impressed me. Dude looks doughy and slow. Doesn't look like a blocker, a rusher or a receiver. And sure as hell doesn't look like an NFL linebacker. We passed on Casey Matthews for that?

- At this point if Marecic can equal what Vickers brought to the table, it would be a miracle. At minimum we knew Vickers could block, and just how many passes does anyone really think Marecic is going to catch? Wasted pick.

2. Jordan Cameron, or Cameron Jordan, is not going to be the next Antonio Gates without some major seasoning. He's got a ways to go before he can back up Evan Moore.

Like the kids potential, but could have had him for less than a 4th round pick.

3. Second preseason game and the injury bug is chewing on the seams of the roster. Precautionary, no sweat. But when Ray Ventrone is a starting safety, your team has issues. For all of us who wanted some FA action, heads be shaking.

As bad as that is, if Colt Mccoy goes down we're sunk. Wallace stinks. Good backup my a s s. For someone who " knows" the offense, he's looked like s h i t. He's so short he makes CM look tall by comparsion. And after 10 years in the league, this guy still can only read half the field. Useless.

4. Speaking of FA action, what if this team using the cake opening schedule and the improved offense to spring off to a great start, and then totally collapses due to injuries and the lack of vet depth. Wouldn't that be a b i t c h?

Nah. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Vet backup or unproven rookie, does it really matter? Didn't seem to when Greco played against Detroit. Pinkston was much better. Steinbach and that $6 million contract could be up the road.

5. I keyed on Maiava for a while. On the first series he got punked a bit, but he looked better as he got more reps. He's built enough, and has some speed.

He's ok as a backup, but our starters suck as a whole. If we needed anything in the draft or FA it was Lbers. Yet we spend our picks on FB's and TE's we don't really need. Go figure.

6. Hey, I saw DQ make a tackle behind the LOS! No, really! (Nobody in the lockerroom better even look at DQ's pecs, if he stays healthy, he'll be a better MLB than he's shown to date).

Our best Lber would be a backup on most teams.

7. Haden got toasted three times in a hurry. Don't read those press clips just yet, Joe. He did bust Burleson once, and got up in his face about it.

Like Colt, Joe has only started a handful of games. Some passes can't be broken up. Joe got beat a few times but it wasn't like he got toasted the way Wright did last year. He had good coverage on those plays. Perfect passes will beat every CB.

8. I thought Shurmur was channeling Mangini by starting Alex Smith at TE. I realize Watson was injured, but really? Then Smith showed his stuff by dropping the first ball thrown to him.

Doubt he makes the roster. TE's like Smith can be picked up at any time.

9. Our third team sucks. That's relative to all third teams, so they suck really, really hard.

 The bottom of the roster looks pretty thin alright. I'm sure TH will try to upgrade the bottom with other teams roster cuts.

10. Inefficient efficiency. Sloppy, but on point at the critical moment. Efficiency is good. We may have forgotten what it looked like.

Considering all the lost time, I think they have done pretty well. The lack of off season conditioning showed up in the last game. They should round into form just in time for the 1st game.

Gameface64 wrote: Just like Vark, just missing the depth, the detail, and the dry humor.....

1. Owen Marcecik does not impress. Matter of fact, he dis-impressed me. Dude looks doughy and slow. Doesn't look like a blocker, a rusher or a receiver. And sure as hell doesn't look like an NFL linebacker. We passed on Casey Matthews for that?

2. Jordan Cameron, or Cameron Jordan, is not going to be the next Antonio Gates without some major seasoning. He's got a ways to go before he can back up Evan Moore.

Gameface64 wrote: Nas,

Did I say career bust, or was that you? Immediate contributor? I think not.

And by any chance, did you see what Antonio Gates looked like in season one? Give me a yell when JC looks like dat. If it's three years from now, I'll be happy. Same for Marcecik.

I like Heckert, Doesn't mean he's foolproof.

Nasdaq wrote:

Well, I for one didn't expect Cribbs to be a pro bowl player like gates. If ur disappoined that every UDFA isn't Gates ur gonna be a down mother scratcher 24/7/365 .

I personally think Cribbs has made fantastic strides. The guy who looked completely uncomfortable when he ball was in the air is now making veteran moves. He's not a pro bowler, but he looks the part of a strating 2. He looks a damn site better than anything we've seen of the dynamic Mangina duo. JC looks solid finally.

By any measure, the weeping and moaning over Marecic is premature and stupid. Spin that all you want. He's a de facto immediate contributor as there is not Plan B. I was a HUGE proponant of keeping Vickers. Pointed out he was a projected finesse FB when he came out of Bolder. No one said he was Johnston. They all said Centers. But he did what his coaches wanted , excelled, and he was diminished in his skill set evaluation for it IMO. Not given any fair chance to shake the rust off being anything but a 3rd guard. Well he's gone now. Boo frickin hoo.

Owen Marecic has not had the benefit of any meaningful NFL coaching or S&C. It has been TWO X ganes with 3 quarters of play. A draftee doesn't pan out for final evaluation for 2 / 3 years.

Does he look good right now? nah. Should he even be evaluated at all until October? Nope. You may not have called him a bust yourself, but I'm not just speaking to you. I am addressing a subject. Scan the posts on him.  

He's a situation of new guy GM coming in and needlessly creating a hole chucking a bona fide decent NFL role player and handing his own guy a job. We've seen this so many times here. Savage made a living using this as an excuse. Let's just hope that Wimbley and Vckers end Heckert's tomfoolery in this regard.

Gameface64 wrote: 
However, in the context of the 2011 Cleveland Browns, we don't have a lot of time to f;;:k around with 4th rounders who can't fill one of the many, many soft spots on the roster. Same with Cameron.

Gameface64 wrote: Just like Vark, just missing the depth, the detail, and the dry humor.....

1. Owen Marcecik does not impress. Matter of fact, he dis-impressed me. Dude looks doughy and slow. Doesn't look like a blocker, a rusher or a receiver. And sure as hell doesn't look like an NFL linebacker. We passed on Casey Matthews for that?

2. Jordan Cameron, or Cameron Jordan, is not going to be the next Antonio Gates without some major seasoning. He's got a ways to go before he can back up Evan Moore.

3. Second preseason game and the injury bug is chewing on the seams of the roster. Precautionary, no sweat. But when Ray Ventrone is a starting safety, your team has issues. For all of us who wanted some FA action, heads be shaking.

4. Speaking of FA action, what if this team using the cake opening schedule and the improved offense to spring off to a great start, and then totally collapses due to injuries and the lack of vet depth. Wouldn't that be a b i t c h?

5. I keyed on Maiava for a while. On the first series he got punked a bit, but he looked better as he got more reps. He's built enough, and has some speed.

6. Hey, I saw DQ make a tackle behind the LOS! No, really! (Nobody in the lockerroom better even look at DQ's pecs, if he stays healthy, he'll be a better MLB than he's shown to date).

7. Haden got toasted three times in a hurry. Don't read those press clips just yet, Joe. He did bust Burleson once, and got up in his face about it.

8. I thought Shurmur was channeling Mangini by starting Alex Smith at TE. I realize Watson was injured, but really? Then Smith showed his stuff by dropping the first ball thrown to him.

9. Our third team sucks. That's relative to all third teams, so they suck really, really hard.

10. Inefficient efficiency. Sloppy, but on point at the critical moment. Efficiency is good. We may have forgotten what it looked like.

Nasdaq wrote:

Gameface64 wrote: Nas,

Did I say career bust, or was that you? Immediate contributor? I think not.

And by any chance, did you see what Antonio Gates looked like in season one? Give me a yell when JC looks like dat. If it's three years from now, I'll be happy. Same for Marcecik.

I like Heckert, Doesn't mean he's foolproof.

Well, I for one didn't expect Cribbs to be a pro bowl player like gates. If ur disappoined that every UDFA isn't Gates ur gonna be a down mother scratcher 24/7/365 .

I personally think Cribbs has made fantastic strides. The guy who looked completely uncomfortable when he ball was in the air is now making veteran moves. He's not a pro bowler, but he looks the part of a strating 2. He looks a damn site better than anything we've seen of the dynamic Mangina duo. JC looks solid finally.

By any measure, the weeping and moaning over Marecic is premature and stupid. Spin that all you want. He's a de facto immediate contributor as there is not Plan B. I was a HUGE proponant of keeping Vickers. Pointed out he was a projected finesse FB when he came out of Bolder. No one said he was Johnston. They all said Centers. But he did what his coaches wanted , excelled, and he was diminished in his skill set evaluation for it IMO. Not given any fair chance to shake the rust off being anything but a 3rd guard. Well he's gone now. Boo frickin hoo.

Owen Marecic has not had the benefit of any meaningful NFL coaching or S&C. It has been TWO X ganes with 3 quarters of play. A draftee doesn't pan out for final evaluation for 2 / 3 years.

Does he look good right now? nah. Should he even be evaluated at all until October? Nope. You may not have called him a bust yourself, but I'm not just speaking to you. I am addressing a subject. Scan the posts on him.  

He's a situation of new guy GM coming in and needlessly creating a hole chucking a bona fide decent NFL role player and handing his own guy a job. We've seen this so many times here. Savage made a living using this as an excuse. Let's just hope that Wimbley and Vckers end Heckert's tomfoolery in this regard.

Nasdaq wrote:

Gameface64 wrote:
However, in the context of the 2011 Cleveland Browns, we don't have a lot of time to f;;:k around with 4th rounders who can't fill one of the many, many soft spots on the roster. Same with Cameron.

Right. Because we're bona fide playoff centenders this year.

Are you high already in the day?

This season is tantamount to 16 X games. It's straight up developmental. We gots nothing BUTT time to F around with 4th rounder project types. That was clear when Heckgren sat on his hands in FA after the labor stoppage an dthe 1st year HC installing new stsyens and re-boot number 5 in BTNG.

Tom rathman. Tom Rathman? Rathman was a F'n one dimentional battering ram leading Osbourns' I backs and didn't routinely start until year three. He was given 2 years to develop before being the full time starter and one of those was a flat out ST red shirt season. . And if Maricic isn't that in 2 X saeson games he lacks that versitility.

F me.

Just F me. 

"Tom Rathman".