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Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops

Posted: 2/14/2013 9:45 AM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Gary Reents wrote:

I wasn't suggesting he read me.

Of course not.  You're entirely too modest for such a thought to even cross your mind.

*snicker*
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Posted: 2/14/2013 10:39 AM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



0tter wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:

I wasn't suggesting he read me.

Of course not.  You're entirely too modest for such a thought to even cross your mind.

*snicker*

Oh, I'm an arrogant elitist bastard, but I didn't mean he should read me. He has no idea who I am so he doesn't know he should read me. {sneer}

Haslam has metrics with Pilot that he uses on a routine basis to oversee his business interests. He knows just what each metric indicates and from that he can make decisions or ask for more information to make decisions. He's been in that business his whole life, knows it like the back of his hand.

He has few metrics for the Browns. The record and what he sees on the field. His understanding of football is no better than any other layman playing Fantasy Football. He is totally reliant on Banner to tell him what metrics he should look at and what they mean. Banner has complete control of the context of the information.

That's no problem if Banner is one of those rare individuals that can look at you and say "I ****** up. I don't think I'm doing a good job for you. You should make a change."  But the only way for Banner to know is if he an independent source of information to compare with what Banner feeds him.

He can't really go straight to players or coaches because that undercuts his top guy and undermines his authority. But, he can use interested third parties with no vested interest in seeing the Browns fail. That would be a site like the OBR and beat reporters.

He can't use these extraorganizational sources to assess the quality of the decision making because they are mostly just reporters and direct questions to other teams could get him purposely misleading info, but he can get a sense of the...environment in Berea. He could get assessments from other teams scouts or coaches or personnel guys second hand through people like Lane.  These would more likely be truthful because they aren't going directly to a rival.



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Posted: 2/14/2013 11:30 AM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


Are you going to make me make a serious reply?

I know enough people in positions similar to Haslem's (although nobody in the Billionaire range) and do not believe any of them would ever expend the kind of effort you're talking about to verify with their own eyes what is going on with their business.

They pay people to do that for them.  They fly to a race track and then get in their car and drive.  They pay someone to drive it down.  They pay someone to service it.  Then they enjoy it.  Get back on a plane.  And someone else cleans it up. 

That's SOP.  He's not going to spend minutes or hours a day checking things out in his fan nation.  And I think you understate how much of an effort someone 'new' to this world has to expend to understand the information.   We grew with the medium.  But someone new to it has to take their time to understand it.  And most people start in the largest areas - the equivalent of CL Live or the Dawg Pound over at the Browns official site or whatever else is out there (I honestly don't know anymore).  And when you start there you start in unorganized chaos.  And without an understanding of what posters or posts merit real consideration it's a steep learning curve to understanding. 

You can try to shortcut it.  Gilbert did with Twitter.  But I'm not certain that it works out well for him.  The fans who embrace one medium or another are not exactly representative of all fans.  Sports Talk radio, for example, is a medium for people who are literally the most vocal about their teams.  But the majority of fans never call a sports talk radio show and likely the majority don't even listen regularly enough to be influenced by sports talk.  But if you ask someone who hosts one of those shows they'll insist that it would be best for the owner to listen to their show because that will give them a view into the fans. 

So let's compromise and say that if Haslem is treating Banner with something other than 100% confidence.  He is going to find people outside of the organization to trust or he'll pay someone outside of the organization to do it for him.  To keep track of the 'heartbeat' of Browns fans. Even with 100% trust in Banner I'm sure he'll also have interactions with other people who are outside the organization who will give him more pertinent information than he'd find from reading Lane.   Peyton Manning is likely available to chat whenever Haslem is in the mood.  Bernie has a pretty good feel for what Browns fans think.  Plenty of other influential people in Cleveland, who have lived here a long time, will be able to provide Haslem with information on what the fans want or how they'll likely react. 

And then you get back to what he might be.  A guy with a toy.  He spent his time to buy it and made sure he got the right toy for the right price.  Now he's not going to worry about keeping it up.  He'll just jump in on occasion for a ride, turn around the next day, and go back to his day job.

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Posted: 2/14/2013 1:01 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


No.

Because it wast a serious post.

Look, my give a damns busted with this group. I could care less.

I'm just laughing at the irony. Trey is not substantially different in his MO than Randy despite the fannish hosannas thrown his way. He is different in that he's an attention whore and his organization is wont to fabricate at worst, spin at best.

Whether Banner Lombardi > Holmgren Heckert? We'll see.

Edired to fix iPhone autocorrect....

Last edited 2/14/2013 3:24 PM by Nasdaq

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Posted: 2/14/2013 1:50 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


Before anything else, kudos to Nas for this:

I'm just laughing at the irony. Trey is not substantially different in his MO than Randy despite the fan nosh hosannas thrown his way. He is different in that he's an attention whore and his organization is wont to fabricate at worst, spin at best.

Short and sweet and rolls up a whole lotta posts over the past six months into an attractive gift box. 

Hey, at least it made up for the attempt at Dave Barry.

OTTER:

The fans who embrace one medium or another are not exactly representative of all fans.  Sports Talk radio, for example, is a medium for people who are literally the most vocal about their teams.  But the majority of fans never call a sports talk radio show and likely the majority don't even listen regularly enough to be influenced by sports talk.  But if you ask someone who hosts one of those shows they'll insist that it would be best for the owner to listen to their show because that will give them a view into the fans. 

AA:

Oh, their insistence would be half-hearted.  Seriously, gauge the depth of discussion on talk radio versus OBR.  Compare posts in OBR versus nearly any comparable site for other teams.  Not much of a comparison.  It's easy to toss off the junk and find some good information.

But as said, the owner can get one page briefs on feedback from a number of sources.  Over time, both Haslam and the person compiling the briefs will utilize intelligence from one source more, another less.  But it's good to know the general tenor out there.  It's why the king donned the cassock in order to mingle amongst the minions.  It's why Jimmy and other CEO's like to go slumming and spot check the outlets.  They even made a decent BBC series out of it, spun off into an American series.

It doesn't have to be motivated by any mistrust of Banner.  But if Haslam continues to see disconnects between his fo and the customers, it will at the very least prompt more interest.   And it isn't a matter of deciding that source A is worthwhile and source B isn't.
An owner wants as much intell as he can get, but not presented with a fire hose.
It can be filtered, but from someone who has no vested interest.

Just beware of the General Manager who comes in Monday morning with an idea that was put into his noggin by an associate at Friday's cocktail party.  When it comes to getting a pulse, that's just the blind leading the blind.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 3:01 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



0tter wrote:

Are you going to make me make a serious reply?

I know enough people in positions similar to Haslem's (although nobody in the Billionaire range) and do not believe any of them would ever expend the kind of effort you're talking about to verify with their own eyes what is going on with their business.

They pay people to do that for them.  They fly to a race track and then get in their car and drive.  They pay someone to drive it down.  They pay someone to service it.  Then they enjoy it.  Get back on a plane.  And someone else cleans it up. 

That's SOP.  He's not going to spend minutes or hours a day checking things out in his fan nation.  And I think you understate how much of an effort someone 'new' to this world has to expend to understand the information.   We grew with the medium.  But someone new to it has to take their time to understand it.  And most people start in the largest areas - the equivalent of CL Live or the Dawg Pound over at the Browns official site or whatever else is out there (I honestly don't know anymore).  And when you start there you start in unorganized chaos.  And without an understanding of what posters or posts merit real consideration it's a steep learning curve to understanding. 

You can try to shortcut it.  Gilbert did with Twitter.  But I'm not certain that it works out well for him.  The fans who embrace one medium or another are not exactly representative of all fans.  Sports Talk radio, for example, is a medium for people who are literally the most vocal about their teams.  But the majority of fans never call a sports talk radio show and likely the majority don't even listen regularly enough to be influenced by sports talk.  But if you ask someone who hosts one of those shows they'll insist that it would be best for the owner to listen to their show because that will give them a view into the fans. 

So let's compromise and say that if Haslem is treating Banner with something other than 100% confidence.  He is going to find people outside of the organization to trust or he'll pay someone outside of the organization to do it for him.  To keep track of the 'heartbeat' of Browns fans. Even with 100% trust in Banner I'm sure he'll also have interactions with other people who are outside the organization who will give him more pertinent information than he'd find from reading Lane.   Peyton Manning is likely available to chat whenever Haslem is in the mood.  Bernie has a pretty good feel for what Browns fans think.  Plenty of other influential people in Cleveland, who have lived here a long time, will be able to provide Haslem with information on what the fans want or how they'll likely react. 

And then you get back to what he might be.  A guy with a toy.  He spent his time to buy it and made sure he got the right toy for the right price.  Now he's not going to worry about keeping it up.  He'll just jump in on occasion for a ride, turn around the next day, and go back to his day job.

I believe every businessman that has acquired a team found out the hard way that it isn't a typical business. It isn't profit and market share here, its something else. Something that requires a skill set and effort unlike pretty much anything in the business world.

So your starting point is incorrect. Haslam doesn't know **** about this business. And he knows it.  He's doing what any smart guy would do and went and got himself a smart man that's experienced in the business to run it for him.

That leaves Haslam at the top of the food chain in a business he is a rookie at this and is now dependent on some guy he met less than a year ago. That's where he's at. And, his normal way of metering the effort of all involved is limited with the real detailed information coming through one man who always wanted to be the head honcho of a football team.

It is a simple fact that Haslam now has a vulnerability that Banner can exploit if necessary and if he is so inclined. 

You jump to Haslam not fully confident in Banner.  You jumped too fast. Haslam has complete confidence in Banner. If he didn't, he wouldn't have just gone back to Pilot. Now the question becomes how does Haslam become uncertain about Banner when all of his information comes through Banner? In order for him to become uncertain he must have counter information. He won't be hiring anybody to check on things until he's uncertain and he won't have the information until he hires somebody. 

And in that crack, is the OBR, and the beat reporters. If Haslam isn't so supremely confident in himself that he couldn't possibly consider the notion that he made a boo-boo hiring Banner.

Nothing may come of this. Banner may do the best job ever seen. But if he doesn't, it will be years before we get to the point of moving him out of Cleveland. He has a coach he can blame, previous administrations, Lombardi.  He has a rookie head coach and a guy trying to do penance for his past. Hell, he has two ready made scapegoats before he gets any scrutiny.  "We gave him some really great talent, he just isn't using it well. I guess he wasn't ready."

But then, we have long haul Jimmy at the helm. The man who almost with his first words talked about continuity. So this could take awhile. I don't see a situation for a fast trigger in this set up.

So, we all hope that Banner and Lombardi are as good and as reformed as they believe they are. We all hope that. 

Again.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 3:26 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Aardvark wrote:
Hey, at least it made up for the attempt at Dave Barry.


Why, I otta..... taquiters is always funny don't care who y'are. ;-)
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Posted: 2/14/2013 4:49 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


NAS:

Why, I otta..... taquiters is always funny don't care who y'are. ;-)

AA:

No question, and it must be frustrating to be the head of the sixth largest private firm in the country, but one whose wealth is based upon an inventory of some of the crappiest products purveyed in American commerce, stuff that is a punchline in many a repertoire. 

In another year,  we may see a study emerge pinning this guy as personally responsible for an estimated 18-20% of obesity in all white males 25-64. 

And as I said to my wife at our first visit to a Flying J for breakfast on the Indianapolis beltway some 20 years ago, "somehow I'm thinking The Gear Jammer Breakfast' is one to avoid."  

It's almost too easy a target:  airline food, child beauty pageants, big tittie silhouette mudflaps.

But Jimmy Slim Jim arrived financially, and he needed something to reflect his status. 

Especially since the monster truck game was done full up.
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Posted: 2/17/2013 11:40 AM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


"In another year,  we may see a study emerge pinning this guy as personally responsible for an estimated 18-20% of obesity in all white males 25-64."

-- You never know what a "study" can be arranged to say, but I've always thought people were "personally responsible" for their own eating habits ultimately. 

A new owner can carry lots of good or bad assumptions in people's minds. And if people can be influenced by the name "The Gear Jammer Breakfast" in a restaurant next to a freeway- either negatively or positively- then there's no telling how far a person might go with Haslam support or Haslam hate.

Like with Lerner, I tend to welcome Haslam's day to day departure from the function of the team. At least he's not hiring Romeo Crennel at this point. While Banner/Lombardi don't thrill me initially, I will wait and see what they end up doing.

Just taking a outside perception of Haslam's persona and his background, I'd say he's clearly different than Randy in basic ways. And based on Randy's record, I don't yet see a downside in that as far as the Browns are concerned. To me at least, that's what is important. 
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Posted: 2/23/2013 2:53 PM

gary 



Aardvark wrote: Before anything else, kudos to Nas for this:

I'm just laughing at the irony. Trey is not substantially different in his MO than Randy despite the fan nosh hosannas thrown his way. He is different in that he's an attention whore and his organization is wont to fabricate at worst, spin at best.

Short and sweet and rolls up a whole lotta posts over the past six months into an attractive gift box. 

Hey, at least it made up for the attempt at Dave Barry.

OTTER:

The fans who embrace one medium or another are not exactly representative of all fans.  Sports Talk radio, for example, is a medium for people who are literally the most vocal about their teams.  But the majority of fans never call a sports talk radio show and likely the majority don't even listen regularly enough to be influenced by sports talk.  But if you ask someone who hosts one of those shows they'll insist that it would be best for the owner to listen to their show because that will give them a view into the fans. 

AA:

Oh, their insistence would be half-hearted.  Seriously, gauge the depth of discussion on talk radio versus OBR.  Compare posts in OBR versus nearly any comparable site for other teams.  Not much of a comparison.  It's easy to toss off the junk and find some good information.

But as said, the owner can get one page briefs on feedback from a number of sources.  Over time, both Haslam and the person compiling the briefs will utilize intelligence from one source more, another less.  But it's good to know the general tenor out there.  It's why the king donned the cassock in order to mingle amongst the minions.  It's why Jimmy and other CEO's like to go slumming and spot check the outlets.  They even made a decent BBC series out of it, spun off into an American series.

It doesn't have to be motivated by any mistrust of Banner.  But if Haslam continues to see disconnects between his fo and the customers, it will at the very least prompt more interest.   And it isn't a matter of deciding that source A is worthwhile and source B isn't.
An owner wants as much intell as he can get, but not presented with a fire hose.
It can be filtered, but from someone who has no vested interest.

Just beware of the General Manager who comes in Monday morning with an idea that was put into his noggin by an associate at Friday's cocktail party.  When it comes to getting a pulse, that's just the blind leading the blind.

A dave barry reference? wow. I don't see how Nas was trying to be like him though.


gary wrote:

I think you missed the point. What you conclude depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded.

And, the immediate effect is to neuter Bernie. He's been effectively walled off from any real influence. They may trot him out when they think it suits them, if Bernie is willing, but he's just window dressing to these guys. 

Bernie has only one in now that I can see, and that's by building a strong bond with Chud and Turner.

Proof? Interesting nugget.

I don't think Haslam will care about the fansites, even the OBR. Even though Lane is good is he influential? The OBR is the best site but it is a niche site and not cleveland.com. It is better than DawgTalkers. The fans are the unwashed masses here.

I think it's Banner's team, straight up. Not much more to analyze, and if Banner/Lombardi overrule Chud/Norv, we are screwed.

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Posted: 2/23/2013 6:36 PM

Re: gary 


K
if Banner/Lombardi overrule Chud/Norv, we are screwed.

H
Why?  What proof other than fan hate that's mostly snowballed?  Banner's background isn't close to being as shaky as Collins was.  We don't know anything about how good or bad Lombardi is yet when having control over player acquisition. 

As far as Haslam being like Randy Jams?  That's a joke too.  Haslam is far more committed and interested in the team personaly that Randy EVER was.  I don't doubt for a minute that Randy gave it a try, but he wasn't nearly as interested, experienced or motivated as Haslam.

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2013/02/21/comb ine-update-49ers-gm-trent-baalke-says-trading-qb-a lex-smith-still-a-possibility/

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

Last edited 2/23/2013 6:45 PM by hamster

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