Wardawg11 wrote:

Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.

Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.

Nah.  Everything goes through Banner. No one will be talking directly to Haslam but Banner, or except with Banner present.  Seen this before with Al and Carmen.

If things suck, Banner will serve up the coach first, then if he has to, Lombardi. It will be two or three seasons before it becomes apparent the rot starts at the top.

That is, if these two play to form and have not learned their lessons like they said they have.

If everything goes well, Banner will take a lot of the credit. Probably deservedly so.

Gary Reents wrote:

Wardawg11 wrote:

Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.

Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.

Nah.  Everything goes through Banner. No one will be talking directly to Haslam but Banner, or except with Banner present.  Seen this before with Al and Carmen.

If things suck, Banner will serve up the coach first, then if he has to, Lombardi. It will be two or three seasons before it becomes apparent the rot starts at the top.

That is, if these two play to form and have not learned their lessons like they said they have.

If everything goes well, Banner will take a lot of the credit. Probably deservedly so.

Think you missed my point..I know things run through Banner to Hasselhoff..but that in itself would  not freeze him from putting a stop to Lomdardo if he is the problem. Banner can do nothing to halt him from firing him if he screws up.
Now if the problem is ML, the issue I have is Banner clever enough to steer that away from JL and point to someone else?
IF JL is a astute business man he'll see where to start. Again I feel it comes down to his reaction when things sour.

Wardawg11 wrote:

Gary Reents wrote:

Wardawg11 wrote:

Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.

Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.

Nah.  Everything goes through Banner. No one will be talking directly to Haslam but Banner, or except with Banner present.  Seen this before with Al and Carmen.

If things suck, Banner will serve up the coach first, then if he has to, Lombardi. It will be two or three seasons before it becomes apparent the rot starts at the top.

That is, if these two play to form and have not learned their lessons like they said they have.

If everything goes well, Banner will take a lot of the credit. Probably deservedly so.

Think you missed my point..I know things run through Banner to Hasselhoff..but that in itself would  not freeze him from putting a stop to Lomdardo if he is the problem. Banner can do nothing to halt him from firing him if he screws up.
Now if the problem is ML, the issue I have is Banner clever enough to steer that away from JL and point to someone else?
IF JL is a astute business man he'll see where to start. Again I feel it comes down to his reaction when things sour.

I think you missed the point. What you conclude depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded.

And, the immediate effect is to neuter Bernie. He's been effectively walled off from any real influence. They may trot him out when they think it suits them, if Bernie is willing, but he's just window dressing to these guys. 

Bernie has only one in now that I can see, and that's by building a strong bond with Chud and Turner.

"What you conclud.e depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded."

-- I think that's true of Haslam and of many people in public positions who tend to be surrounded by handlers. And therein lies one of the issues when it comes to understanding a person and how the process around him works.

We are now in Haslam's world to a large extent and he seems to have given much of it to Banner. So we get to see what he can do- even if Haslam has a hands-off influence to some extent. I haven't fully wrapped my mind around Haslam and Banner's relationship at this point. They seem an odd couple from the outside. Will it last or is this just a fling that a new owner falls under?

Since Jimmy has drifted off to Knoxville, I guess the ball is in Banner's court. And Lombardi's. And the coaches to an extent. I suppose the draft will tell us something. Then, of course, there's camp and the resulting season...

At least we didn't end up with a coach named Chip. Somehow I take solace in that.

At least we didn't end up with a coach named Chip. Somehow I take solace in that.    

That guy never intended on coming to Cleveland.

It's on a lake, not an ocean.

Gary Reents wrote:
I think you missed the point. What you conclude depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded.

And, the immediate effect is to neuter Bernie. He's been effectively walled off from any real influence. They may trot him out when they think it suits them, if Bernie is willing, but he's just window dressing to these guys. 

Bernie has only one in now that I can see, and that's by building a strong bond with Chud and Turner.

Didn't miss anything. U underestimate how I  perceive people..in my line of work I deal with all kinds of personalities.

Some are truthful, some lie , some are deceptive  and so on..people are people regardless of their line of work.
I'm always suspicious of business people because of the practices they employ to get what they want.

I try to see what makes  a person tick..if they are truely smart ,they don't take things on face value. They dig for information and read between the lines.

In this senero there's a risk of the personalities involved handling the operations of this team.
 So far it seems Haslam is o.k  with it  dispite someof the warnings he was given.

One thing I do know, if you put someone in a position to give you information and they are being stifled  , you find out why. U also find out whats not being relayed to you.
Now it all depends on the type of man JH is.
We know that his other business is handled in a hands on fashion regardless of whom he has in charge.

 I understand what you're saying( U think I don't ) we'll just see how it plays out.

Now ,U might reason I'm trying to  prop up Haslam..I'm doing what I do in this situation, I'll take the stance that regardless of BK being screened from anything of value, it shouldn't stop JH from doing what he needs to do.
If JH wants to have Bernie as someone he wants to talk to and he has little to tell him, well there are other paths to take regarding that. Other ways to find out whats going on.

On his side  he  feels he has to trust  Banner..however  he's a 1st time owner set up by the NFL with a person he's has no history with. And a guy that a lot of people know is smart but don't like his personality and feel he has a huge ego..not the first person like that around here.

Is he too trusting to Banner just because he's there, and dude has smoothed out a path with him ?

That trust has to be relative and not exact.
But as I said we're going to see this all play out because as U and I and everyone in here knows,this isn't going to be a smooth ride.

Haslams experience with the Stoolers should have taught him how the structure works and the checks and balances in place , function..I'm sure the owner had more than one person who fed him formation that someone else wasn't  able to deliver.

The first blows will be in FA..and then the draft. And then how Banner/Lombardi handle internal problems WHICH WILL COME UP.

We'll all see what Haslam is about..I do expect him to stumble since this is his first time  doing this.

"I try to see what makes  a person tick..if they are truely smart ,they don't take things on face value. They dig for information and read between the lines."

-- "Reading between the lines"- at least in the real world- is indeed very important and hard to understand from the outside or after the fact. Which is why subtle things like that might get lost in the maze of linkable articles  that contain "facts" that may still not reveal the way things are going and what people are doing. 

Using "links" or other things can be helpful at times. But the danger is when someone leans on them too much and can't "read between the lines". As they say, opinions are like arsholes. And they can influence both how you "read between the lines" and which "facts" or "links" you twist to suit your purposes or decide to ignore.

All part of debate and decision-making, I suppose. Too much attitude does get tiresome after awhile.

"We'll all see what Haslam is about..I do expect him to stumble since this is his first time  doing this."

-- Right. Banner and Lombardi can be commented on, but the reality is that Haslam can fire them if he decides they aren't doing a good job. He is The Man in this scenario. Which he should be. I don't mind him stumbling if the stumbling means he cares and he learns after each stumble. A completely inexperienced or a totally disconnected owner who lets boys be boys would not be good.

At least Haslam has been out there a bit and done a few things and hopefully has experience based on that. Owners in the past seemed too connected at times and too lost in a fog at other times.