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Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops

Posted: 2/12/2013 8:40 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


"AA:

Agree, and what you've articulated is the same old, same old:  doubt about the existing structure and hoping for the best... because we're fans."

-- Let me start with the bottom line we fans end up paying attention to. We come, we see, we hope.

"Why would unions-- or what's left of them-- care who owns a major pro sports team?  Iz got ta know."

-- Player unions would want a team owned by rich owners who can keep paying high player salaries. If that indirectly is propped up by corporate influence in a sport or by higher food and drink prices or by higher ticket prices or by higher whatever, so be it. How fans are emptied of their funds isn't really important as long as players can be paid as well as possible. 

"AA:

No kidding about a different take.  Green Bay is woefully behind the rest of the state in terms of medium income.  This isn't exactly Lake Conemaugh and Carnegie, Mellon, Frick and their South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club cronies."

-- It's too bad if Packer fans end up paying a larger percentage of discretionary funds they may have than other fans from, say, New York. It might be a good thing if fans via community ownership had more real power and influence in how things were done and how funds were handled. 

Not going to happen any time soon, but imagine there's no heaven. Or outside interests that override local influence.

"HOLE:

I don't have too much problem with Haslam taking a backseat at this point. At least he's done something in his time and perhaps the Browns will get some useful experience from that. 

AA:

What... that is... THAT?"

-- Hope. That's what I'm reduced to.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 8:34 AM

Laying the Solid Foundation 


HOLE:

Player unions would want a team owned by rich owners who can keep paying high player salaries.

AA:

And so if a community owned franchise would not be able to pay top dollar in players salaries, then Green Bay must rank pretty low on payroll.  Bottom quarter of the league seem about right?

According to an ESPN article on all professional sports franchises last year (hint:  LeBron, you should have taken up soccer at St. V's), Green Bay finished 10th among NFL teams with highest payroll. 

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7850531/espn-ma gazine-sportingintelligence-global-salary-survey-e spn-magazine

The working class Packers are paying out more in players salaries than notorious free spender Dan Snyder.

HOLE:

 It's too bad if Packer fans end up paying a larger percentage of discretionary funds they may have than other fans from, say, New York.

AA:

They don't.  Green Bay ticket prices are in the middle of the pack among NFL teams.  No surprise that NY and NE are at the top.

From last September...

Besides the Jets and Patriots, three other teams have non-suite tickets that are selling for more than $100: New York Giants ($111.69), Chicago Bears ($110.91) and Dallas Cowboys ($110.20).

The teams with the cheapest average tickets: Cleveland Browns ($54.20), Buffalo Bills ($58.36) and Jacksonville Jaguars ($59.54).


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8345872/new-york -jets-new-england-patriots-highest-ticket-prices-s urvey-shows

We'll see if Haslam keeps the Browns ticket prices down.  And if prices do go up,we'll see which comes first, increased payroll expenditures to justify the increase, or a price increase in order to cover the cost of building a winner.

HOLE:

I don't have too much problem with Haslam taking a backseat at this point. At least he's done something in his time and perhaps the Browns will get some useful experience from that. 

AA:

What... that is... THAT?"

HOLE:
-- Hope. That's what I'm reduced to.

AA:

But what I'm asking is this:  what is the "something" Haslam has done in his short tenure to give you hope?  

If it's just a feeling that he's a winner because he LOOKS and SOUNDS the part, and he took his daddy's company and made it into a far bigger concern, then we run on that hope. 

If it's because he took time from his day job to immerse himself in the Browns, establish the "Solid Foundation," before wiping his hands, declaring "my work's done here.  I'm needed back home,"  then I'd get a building inspector to examine that foundation.   


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Posted: 2/13/2013 2:03 PM

Re: Laying the Solid Foundation 


"HOLE:
-- Hope. That's what I'm reduced to.

AA:

But what I'm asking is this:  what is the "something" Haslam has done in his short tenure to give you hope? "

--  He comes from money, but he has done perhaps more than others who come from money. If so, I hope that will inform his ownership judgment. That's all. The evidence is at best imperfect at this point. The "foundation" isn't set at this point- even though we can opine on the team's current status if we want to. Haslam may be the worst owner the Browns ever had. If so, some people may take a weird satisfaction in that. Hopefully, he isn't. At this point and in light of past Browns' ownership, I bitterly cling to hope.

Teams and unions- Any discussion of a team's salary or ticket prices or anything else has to be made in the framework we have. So be it. Currently the NFL and the players' union put money first. No matter what  persona they want to project.

My point was that maybe it would be much better from a fan pov to have communities take charge of the sport. They could charge a sensible amount to fans and pay players a sensible salary. Then salaries might reflect economic realities rather than the motivations of rich but disconnected owners, corporate interests and union protected players who may be more motivated by their contracts than the community they supposedly represent. 

In addition, medical factors should always take account of the preservation of the real sport and the assumed liability that players enter into when they choose to play professional football. If the NFL and the unions go too far in protecting players, fans may at some point decide the product on the field isn't worth the money they now spend. Just part of the equation in the current situation. 

In light of lawsuits, it may be sensible to require players to enter into a medical contract that defines their status before they ever make contact in an NFL environment. I'm sure their agents would be competent to understand the contract and advise their clients appropriately.

But for now this is all theoretical. It probably couldn't happen unless the NFL becomes a bubble that eventually bursts. What's the chance of that? 
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