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RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops

  • mes78
  • Junkyard Terror
  • 2273 posts this site

Posted: 2/12/2013 7:47 PM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


Then, there's this interview
www.cleveland.com/browns/index..._jimmy_h_8.html

So, add that piece to the puzzle.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 6:27 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



mes78 wrote: Then, there's this interview
www.cleveland.com/browns/index..._jimmy_h_8.html

So, add that piece to the puzzle.
I'm not sure...is it "irony"...that Haslam expressed his intense involvement in a phone interview? Is it? That whole irony thing has me confused since "Isn't it Ironic" wasn't.

The reality of the situation is you have owners that fall into two categories. One is, the team is their entire world. That would be an Al  Davis or a Mike Brown. The team is their business, so they give it their undivided attention. Then you have owners who have a business or businesses that buy a team and they hand it off. They check in, usually often, and make sure they know why decisions are made and give their approval...sometimes after some in-dpeth questioning...sometimes not.

The Browns have had the second type through Randy, and it's clear that continues now under Haslam.

So, a sea change in the fortunes of this franchise depends on the job Banner and Lombardi do. No great revelation there except that these two can be as bad as some of us have feared, and they can create an awful working environment in Berea, and Haslam may never know until the train comes off the rails.

By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.

Except...for the press and..."us." So, stay frosty, guys. If Haslam has any brains at all, he'll check into the unaffiliated fan sites and the reporters dishing the buzz. If he doesn't do this, he'll be worse than Randy. Not that it means the Browns will continue to lose. There's a real chance that Banner and Lombardi are really competent, lying pricks. At least as much chance of that as their being incompetent, lying pricks.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 7:55 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


http://www.ohio.com/blogs/clev...haslam-1.372825


No reason to guess when most of what is feared here is addressed.   The actions will validate it as truth or not.

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

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Posted: 2/13/2013 9:05 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



hamster wrote: http://www.ohio.com/blogs/clev...haslam-1.372825


No reason to guess when most of what is feared here is addressed.   The actions will validate it as truth or not.
So far, Haslam has been as passionate and as intensely involved as Randy was in his first 6 months as owner.

We'll see where Haslam is in year 10 and compare that to year 10 of Randy. So far, no really significant difference between the two.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 9:35 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.



Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.

Last edited 2/13/2013 9:38 AM by Wardawg11

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Posted: 2/13/2013 9:37 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


I'd modify Gary's contention that owners fall into two categories.  Other than full-time owners (the team IS their livelihood), the captains of industry juggle time between their day job and toy, and do so in varying shades of gray.  It would be difficult to quantify which owners devote what % of time to day job or toy, and who has managed it successfully. 

Can it be done?  Sure. 

Is there a magic formula that says an owner really needs at least a 50/50 split of his time and energies to do right by his team?  Who knows?

As said many times, all an owner really needs to get right is the hire of his President. 
A great President hires a great GM.  They hire a great hc, et cetera, et cetera, ET CETERA!
Then the owner has more time to devote to the business end of the franchise and, while ever vigilant of the football side, knows it is in good hands and requires less maintenance time.

We don't know how Haslam has split his time.  When he stepped down as CEO on a temporary basis, we knew it wasn't like he still didn't devote time to Flying J.  As he resumes his old role, it's not like he has put the Browns on the shelf. 

There may, indeed, be absolutely no difference in the amount of time he spends in northeast Ohio.  But the "fair question" missed the mark.  The concern is not so much time spent in northeast Ohio, but how this latest move will affect HIS TIME SPENT ON THE CLEVELAND BROWNS.   And by time spent, I don't mean showing up in the owner's box.
Certainly an owner has to block out plenty of time around free agency to meet with prospective players.  The draft?  Uh, I don't know that I necessarily want Haslam standing over Banner and Lombardi.  Training camp and the weeks leading up to it?  Yea, block out some time there for consults on contracts. 

I'm sure he gets all that.  But what we don't want is an owner who steps in jussst a little late for a Collinsgate affair.

And an owner really does himself no service by claiming that even if a few of his decisions didn't pan out, they were at least made because "we were very involved, very hands on and cared deeply about the Cleveland Browns, Northeastern Ohio and restoring a winning tradition to the area."  His predecessor spouted the same sentiments, and at least HE had some basis for it having grown up a  Browns fan.  Haslam's motivation is that he wants a winner because HE is a winner, his company is a winner, and therefore his team has to be an extension of that and a reflection on him. 

Well, every owner is in that same boat.  At least the ones whose team isn't their sole means of support.

So in a corollary to Butch's "don't tell me about the pain.  Show me the baby," maybe Haslam needs to talk less about caring deeply and jsut show us the winner.  

Right now, all we have to go on is a hope that a new owner, taking the same approach as his predecessor, will somehow achieve a different outcome. 



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Posted: 2/13/2013 10:22 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Wardawg11 wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.



Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.
Nah.  Everything goes through Banner. No one will be talking directly to Haslam but Banner, or except with Banner present.  Seen this before with Al and Carmen.

If things suck, Banner will serve up the coach first, then if he has to, Lombardi. It will be two or three seasons before it becomes apparent the rot starts at the top.

That is, if these two play to form and have not learned their lessons like they said they have.

If everything goes well, Banner will take a lot of the credit. Probably deservedly so.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 10:54 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Gary Reents wrote:
Wardawg11 wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.



Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.
Nah.  Everything goes through Banner. No one will be talking directly to Haslam but Banner, or except with Banner present.  Seen this before with Al and Carmen.

If things suck, Banner will serve up the coach first, then if he has to, Lombardi. It will be two or three seasons before it becomes apparent the rot starts at the top.

That is, if these two play to form and have not learned their lessons like they said they have.

If everything goes well, Banner will take a lot of the credit. Probably deservedly so.

Think you missed my point..I know things run through Banner to Hasselhoff..but that in itself would  not freeze him from putting a stop to Lomdardo if he is the problem. Banner can do nothing to halt him from firing him if he screws up.
Now if the problem is ML, the issue I have is Banner clever enough to steer that away from JL and point to someone else?
IF JL is a astute business man he'll see where to start. Again I feel it comes down to his reaction when things sour.

Last edited 2/13/2013 11:22 AM by Wardawg11

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Posted: 2/13/2013 11:02 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Gary Reents wrote:
hamster wrote: http://www.ohio.com/blogs/clev...haslam-1.372825


No reason to guess when most of what is feared here is addressed.   The actions will validate it as truth or not.
So far, Haslam has been as passionate and as intensely involved as Randy was in his first 6 months as owner.

We'll see where Haslam is in year 10 and compare that to year 10 of Randy. So far, no really significant difference between the two.

Most people in a suit could be applied to this logic.  He never said he had the experience to run the team so why should anyone act as if he should?  He has only done what anyone without experience could do.  Have a say so in his FO and then let them go to work


It’s putting the right people in place and then holding them accountable.  Therefore, I don’t care how much time we visibly see him.  You can use a scare tactic but Banner, Lombardi, Chud and Horton may all be those types of people regardless if liked by all or any at the start.  Instead of coming out of the gate with a college coach who had full control he at least has NFL people with experience that can act as checks and balances.  Could they fail?  Of course.  Could Haslam prove as inept as Randy?  Sure, but we will see it much sooner than 10 years.  We will start seeing pieces of evidence come draft day and FA.  It won’t take long to see how strong this FO is and how Haslam reacts. 

As far as how much time he needs to put in?  Enough to not let things fester as badly as Randy did each time and then having no choice but to blow it all up and start all over again.  He needs to keep tabs with not just Banner but Lombardi, Chud and Horton to keep in the loop and get a feel on what’s going on.

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

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Posted: 2/13/2013 4:53 PM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Wardawg11 wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
Wardawg11 wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
By now, Banner has completely shut off all access to Haslam unless it goes through him. Haslam will make all decisions through a filter callled Banner. Which, effectively neuters Haslam from stepping in to stop Lombardi or Banner from being a problem instead of a solution. Whole seasons can go by before Haslam will understand that the guy giving him all of his information for decision making is an issue. If he is an issue.



Not too sure about that. Nothing neuters Hasselhoff from doing anything except himself..he's the real boss who can fire Banner/Lombardi..
 Because if Hasselhoff is a reactionary man and that little move back to Pilot J showed it, if Lombardi/Banner screw something major up, I doubt he just sits back in Vol country and pops a Pepsi and wonders if they'll fix it.
Like I said his actions will prove what his mouth spits out.
Nah.  Everything goes through Banner. No one will be talking directly to Haslam but Banner, or except with Banner present.  Seen this before with Al and Carmen.

If things suck, Banner will serve up the coach first, then if he has to, Lombardi. It will be two or three seasons before it becomes apparent the rot starts at the top.

That is, if these two play to form and have not learned their lessons like they said they have.

If everything goes well, Banner will take a lot of the credit. Probably deservedly so.

Think you missed my point..I know things run through Banner to Hasselhoff..but that in itself would  not freeze him from putting a stop to Lomdardo if he is the problem. Banner can do nothing to halt him from firing him if he screws up.
Now if the problem is ML, the issue I have is Banner clever enough to steer that away from JL and point to someone else?
IF JL is a astute business man he'll see where to start. Again I feel it comes down to his reaction when things sour.
I think you missed the point. What you conclude depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded.

And, the immediate effect is to neuter Bernie. He's been effectively walled off from any real influence. They may trot him out when they think it suits them, if Bernie is willing, but he's just window dressing to these guys. 

Bernie has only one in now that I can see, and that's by building a strong bond with Chud and Turner.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 6:39 PM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


"What you conclud.e depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded."

-- I think that's true of Haslam and of many people in public positions who tend to be surrounded by handlers. And therein lies one of the issues when it comes to understanding a person and how the process around him works.

We are now in Haslam's world to a large extent and he seems to have given much of it to Banner. So we get to see what he can do- even if Haslam has a hands-off influence to some extent. I haven't fully wrapped my mind around Haslam and Banner's relationship at this point. They seem an odd couple from the outside. Will it last or is this just a fling that a new owner falls under?

Since Jimmy has drifted off to Knoxville, I guess the ball is in Banner's court. And Lombardi's. And the coaches to an extent. I suppose the draft will tell us something. Then, of course, there's camp and the resulting season...

At least we didn't end up with a coach named Chip. Somehow I take solace in that.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 6:47 PM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


At least we didn't end up with a coach named Chip. Somehow I take solace in that.    

That guy never intended on coming to Cleveland.

It's on a lake, not an ocean.
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:55 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



Gary Reents wrote:
I think you missed the point. What you conclude depends on the information you have. If the information you have is managed, its unlikely your conclusions will be anything but what was intended to be concluded.

And, the immediate effect is to neuter Bernie. He's been effectively walled off from any real influence. They may trot him out when they think it suits them, if Bernie is willing, but he's just window dressing to these guys. 

Bernie has only one in now that I can see, and that's by building a strong bond with Chud and Turner.
Didn't miss anything. U underestimate how I  perceive people..in my line of work I deal with all kinds of personalities.

Some are truthful, some lie , some are deceptive  and so on..people are people regardless of their line of work.
I'm always suspicious of business people because of the practices they employ to get what they want.

I try to see what makes  a person tick..if they are truely smart ,they don't take things on face value. They dig for information and read between the lines.

In this senero there's a risk of the personalities involved handling the operations of this team.
 So far it seems Haslam is o.k  with it  dispite someof the warnings he was given.

One thing I do know, if you put someone in a position to give you information and they are being stifled  , you find out why. U also find out whats not being relayed to you.
Now it all depends on the type of man JH is.
We know that his other business is handled in a hands on fashion regardless of whom he has in charge.

 I understand what you're saying( U think I don't ) we'll just see how it plays out.

Now ,U might reason I'm trying to  prop up Haslam..I'm doing what I do in this situation, I'll take the stance that regardless of BK being screened from anything of value, it shouldn't stop JH from doing what he needs to do.
If JH wants to have Bernie as someone he wants to talk to and he has little to tell him, well there are other paths to take regarding that. Other ways to find out whats going on.

On his side  he  feels he has to trust  Banner..however  he's a 1st time owner set up by the NFL with a person he's has no history with. And a guy that a lot of people know is smart but don't like his personality and feel he has a huge ego..not the first person like that around here.

Is he too trusting to Banner just because he's there, and dude has smoothed out a path with him ?

That trust has to be relative and not exact.
But as I said we're going to see this all play out because as U and I and everyone in here knows,this isn't going to be a smooth ride.

Haslams experience with the Stoolers should have taught him how the structure works and the checks and balances in place , function..I'm sure the owner had more than one person who fed him formation that someone else wasn't  able to deliver.

The first blows will be in FA..and then the draft. And then how Banner/Lombardi handle internal problems WHICH WILL COME UP.

We'll all see what Haslam is about..I do expect him to stumble since this is his first time  doing this.

Last edited 2/14/2013 9:14 AM by Wardawg11

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  • redright
  • Faithful Best Friend
  • 12844 posts this site

Posted: 2/20/2013 3:02 PM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



hamster wrote: http://www.ohio.com/blogs/clev...haslam-1.372825


No reason to guess when most of what is feared here is addressed.   The actions will validate it as truth or not.
Good Call!

Was Al Lerner's first love banking?
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Posted: 2/21/2013 10:49 AM

RE: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


"I try to see what makes  a person tick..if they are truely smart ,they don't take things on face value. They dig for information and read between the lines."

-- "Reading between the lines"- at least in the real world- is indeed very important and hard to understand from the outside or after the fact. Which is why subtle things like that might get lost in the maze of linkable articles  that contain "facts" that may still not reveal the way things are going and what people are doing. 

Using "links" or other things can be helpful at times. But the danger is when someone leans on them too much and can't "read between the lines". As they say, opinions are like arsholes. And they can influence both how you "read between the lines" and which "facts" or "links" you twist to suit your purposes or decide to ignore.

All part of debate and decision-making, I suppose. Too much attitude does get tiresome after awhile.

"We'll all see what Haslam is about..I do expect him to stumble since this is his first time  doing this."

-- Right. Banner and Lombardi can be commented on, but the reality is that Haslam can fire them if he decides they aren't doing a good job. He is The Man in this scenario. Which he should be. I don't mind him stumbling if the stumbling means he cares and he learns after each stumble. A completely inexperienced or a totally disconnected owner who lets boys be boys would not be good.

At least Haslam has been out there a bit and done a few things and hopefully has experience based on that. Owners in the past seemed too connected at times and too lost in a fog at other times. 
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