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Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops

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Posted: 2/11/2013 1:28 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


OK, now this is just bizarre.



=


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Posted: 2/11/2013 2:16 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


I am tending to believe Gary as he said this guy is a bunch of bull....and that he lies.

Plus, it sounds as if the Pepsi guy didn't work out at Pilot.

Last edited 2/11/2013 2:21 PM by Lumpy

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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:01 PM

Mission Accomplished! 


Written by Mes78 just over three weeks ago...

Haslam's actions speak louder than his money, and definitely his words. He stepped down from CEO of Pilot Flying J to focus on the Browns. Randy's personal focus was divided between business, soccer, and the Browns.

Haslam sold the naming rights to raise funds to further making the Browns competitive. Randy, crickets, crickets.

Haslam is currently in the process of stadium improvements to make the gameday experience as enjoyable as other NFL franchises. Randy, not so much.

Haslam immediately bought a home in the area. Randy spent most of his time in NY.

Haslam has taken a leadership role for the organization he owns. Randy hired Holmy to fulfill his duty, so he could finalize his status as the most absentee owner. One step above neglect.

Randy threw money at problems with the organization hoping it would all work out. He couldn't stomach all the responsibilities of being an owner. He went through the motions, at times tried to play the part as much as his personality would allow, and probably agonized over his missteps. Yet, through it all, he could never step up and get his hands dirty and fully embrace his responsibility. At the end, he paid someone else to avoid his position. It was an unfair obligation placed upon him by his father. He never wanted it, but being the good son, being a fan of the team, and a man with no choice, he tried. His heart wasn't in it enough, and so he jumped ship at his first legal opportunity. Hate to break your heart.

Haslam's actions and money say he wants this job. So when Randy and Haslam say similar things or some moves coincide, the perception is overlooking the reality. Jimmy is determined to try and win. Randy would've liked to win to fulfill his obligations.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1765& t=11193838&p=3


He came.

He saw.

And with steely determination, he...

hired Banner and Lombardi.

sold stadium naming rights.

pondered stadium improvements, namely a dome.

petitioned the league for friggin' uniform changes.

And lo, on the seventh day, He rested.

The years in the White House weighed heavily on his shoulders.  On his plate?  Only turning back the tide of Communist aggression, the threat of nuclear annihilation, labor strife in the coal and steel industries.  And with a profound sense of purpose satisified, the man  returned to his native Independence and the dry goods store he owned before answering his country's call of duty.  

It would take a committee of men with equal determination to maintain the course this one man so steadily captained for lo, these many... weeks.  But now, his work is done here. 

Mission accomplished.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:47 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


Not that I'd expect people to care but he never did anything other than take steps to allow him a temporary hiatus.  He replaced himself as acting CEO with someone he trusted while appointing himself Emeritus status.  The breathless media reports at the time were laughably inaccurate when they portrayed him handing over his family company's reigns and focusing solely on the Browns.

He bought a house and people think that means he was becoming a Clevelander.  I wish I had a giant eyeroll icon. 

He needed to take enough time to set up his new billion dollar enterprise.  He's done that.  He's happy with where it is.  Now he's going to get back to his real family legacy.

Honestly what the hell does an owner do for a football team in the offseason?    Meanwhile Flying-J has no offseason and is where Haslem has to go to get his CEO'ness on.  As far as what happens to PepsiCo guy he's not only going to be involved with Flying J but apparantly the Browns as well. 

So obviously (to me) Jimmy promised him CEO role to entice him to leave PepsiCo.  Now that he wanted it back he had to give him at least a little something in order to get it done w/o a fight.

So he gave him a piece of consulting with the Browns.

Welcome to being a fan of one man's toy.

Last edited 2/11/2013 3:50 PM by 0tter

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Posted: 2/11/2013 4:49 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


OTTER:

The breathless media reports at the time were laughably inaccurate when they portrayed him handing over his family company's reigns and focusing solely on the Browns.

AA:

Do these seem like unreasonable interpretations of events?

For Browns fans, this could be considered a positive development, as Haslam should now have significantly more time to run his new football franchise. That could be a stark contrast from the team's previous ownership headed by Randy Lerner, who never had a reputation for being deeply committed to running the organization.

http://cleveland.sbnation.com/cleveland-browns/201 2/9/12/3321380/jimmy-haslam-browns-owner-pilot-fly ing-j

The news broke late last night and most Cleveland outlets have picked it up already by now, but it is still important to note. What this means for the future is unknown, but it at least indicates the Browns could have a much more watchful steward than Randy Lerner going forward, something that became evident when Jimmy Haslam was in Pat Shurmur’s press conference following the opening week loss to the Philadelphia Eagles.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/09/jimmy-ha slam-hires-his-replacement-at-pilot-flying-j/

At Haslam’s introductory press conference as Browns future owner on Aug. 3, he was asked how much time he intended to spend in Cleveland on football business.

“We’ll split our time between Knoxville and Cleveland,” Haslam said. “I’m still going to be CEO of Pilot Flying J. It’s a big company and I’ll spend a pretty good amount of time running that, but we’ll take, as I said earlier, whatever time necessary in Cleveland really to do two things: one, to bring a winner back here, but number two, to become a part of the Cleveland community.”

The only reasonable conclusion you can reach is that Haslam has spent enough time walking the halls of Berea, examining the books, and, yes, sitting in on personnel meetings, to realize there is a lot of work to be done immediately with the Browns.


http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49& post_id=4851

Lot of COULD's and cautious optimism from the media.  If there were breathless assumptions, they were coming from fans.  Still, a bit of bloviating with the "whatever time necessary in Cleveland... to bring a winner."  Guess he meant a winning front office.


And while I'm no fan of Mike Florio, he does hit the nail with this...

Former Browns owner Randy Lerner was criticized for being an absentee landlord.  New Browns owner Jimmy Haslam suddenly is, well, an absentee landlord.

Six months after stepping down as CEO of Pilot Flying J, Haslam has returned, according to the Knoxville News Sentinel.  Haslam replaces former PepsiCo president John Compton, who will remain as a strategic adviser.  (Which could mean he’ll eventually fade away quietly in lieu of being publicly poop-canned now.)

Still, Haslam is saying, “It’s not him, it’s me.”  Sort of.


“This is about me realizing my first love is running Pilot Flying J and wanting to return to that job,” Haslam said.

In a statement released to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, spokesman Neal Gulkis said of Haslam’s move, “It’s not going to affect his involvement with the team nor is it going to have any impact on the operations of the Browns.”

As a practical matter, however, the move nudges CEO Joe Banner into the Mike Holmgren role.  With Haslam out of the picture on a day-to-day basis and ensconced in the family business that helped him earn the money to buy the Browns, Banner is now the lead dog in the Dawg Pound.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/11/ne w-browns-owner-returns-to-his-former-job/

So if people want to say Lerner gave up and gave the keys to Walrus, how is this any different with Haslam and Banner? 

Mind you, it's not necessarily a bad tact.  Haslam is not claiming to be an NFL expert, so he's letting the football people handle the football stuff. 

But same tact in the front office, different reaction from fans.

OTTER:

He bought a house and people think that means he was becoming a Clevelander.  I wish I had a giant eyeroll icon. 

AA:

Agree.  It just meant he didn't want to stay in a hotel on on home game weekends. 
Far more palatable than landing at Burke Sunday morning and flying out 12 hours later.

OTTER:

He needed to take enough time to set up his new billion dollar enterprise.  He's done that.  He's happy with where it is.  Now he's going to get back to his real family legacy.

AA:

Well, we don't quite know for he had enought time to set it all up and be happy with it. 
We DO know that whatever he's done is enough for him to declare now is time to return to the family business.

OTTER:

Honestly what the hell does an owner do for a football team in the offseason? 

AA:

Strangely, never heard that asked of any owner from Modell on down. 

Indeed, what does an owner do DURING the season... beyond showing up for games and an obligatory walk around Berea within the first few days of tc?

How much time do owners spend on team business... versus the business that made them all the money in the first place?

How many owners eventually divested themselves from their businesses to make their team a full time devotion?

How hands on/off will Haslam be compared to other NFL owners?

And does it really matter as long as he hired the right people to run the football side?

Lots of questions for the beat writers to research in the coming weeks.

Personally, I would have been more comfortable with this move had at least another year gone by, the team was obviously improving, and the proof was there that a good management team was in place... and that Haslam could say, "Mission Accomplished."
with a little more conviction than if he was wearing a flight suit.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:51 AM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 



0tter wrote: Not that I'd expect people to care but he never did anything other than take steps to allow him a temporary hiatus.  He replaced himself as acting CEO with someone he trusted while appointing himself Emeritus status.  The breathless media reports at the time were laughably inaccurate when they portrayed him handing over his family company's reigns and focusing solely on the Browns.

He bought a house and people think that means he was becoming a Clevelander.  I wish I had a giant eyeroll icon. 

He needed to take enough time to set up his new billion dollar enterprise.  He's done that.  He's happy with where it is.  Now he's going to get back to his real family legacy.

Honestly what the hell does an owner do for a football team in the offseason?    Meanwhile Flying-J has no offseason and is where Haslem has to go to get his CEO'ness on.  As far as what happens to PepsiCo guy he's not only going to be involved with Flying J but apparantly the Browns as well. 

So obviously (to me) Jimmy promised him CEO role to entice him to leave PepsiCo.  Now that he wanted it back he had to give him at least a little something in order to get it done w/o a fight.

So he gave him a piece of consulting with the Browns.

Welcome to being a fan of one man's toy.
Pol, from an operational standpoint we all know you are correct. Like dude can't mix in a 30 minute skype call from anywhere to stay in touch. Unless you believe strongly in MBWA, like, oh, I dunnno, a CEO rumored to make  pop in visits to his truck stops for QC, nothing is really lost.

Butt.... From the standpoint of connection between what he said he'd do and what he is doing, there is yet another chasm. Another data point of BS from this new management group. May not manefest itself in anyway, and yet again it may.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 3:43 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


"Welcome to being a fan of one man's toy."

-- Well, other than possibly the Packers, that's pretty much true of any team. For better or worse.

It might be more logical if communities owned and controlled teams, but I doubt if the rich owners and the rich union officials would approve. Those fans have some money and they want it. A different take on wealth distribution in a way.

Much has and is happening and evolving. People tending towards optimism or towards pessimism have plenty of "facts" to conveniently point in the direction they want.

Welcome to being a victim of one man's agenda...?

I don't have too much problem with Haslam taking a backseat at this point. At least he's done something in his time and perhaps the Browns will get some useful experience from that. 

I like the coaches, but I do wonder at the Banner/Lombardi structure. We'll see what they produce. Hopefully it's a winning toy.

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Posted: 2/12/2013 4:30 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


HOLE:

It might be more logical if communities owned and controlled teams, but I doubt if the rich owners and the rich union officials would approve.

AA:

Owners I can see... but "rich union officials?"  Did you just stumble out of a time capsule from 1960?
Why would unions-- or what's left of them-- care who owns a major pro sports team?  Iz got ta know.

HOLE:

Those fans have some money and they want it. A different take on wealth distribution in a way.

AA:

No kidding about a different take.  Green Bay is woefully behind the rest of the state in terms of medium income.  This isn't exactly Lake Conemaugh and Carnegie, Mellon, Frick and their South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club cronies. 

HOLE:

Much has and is happening and evolving. People tending towards optimism or towards pessimism have plenty of "facts" to conveniently point in the direction they want.

AA:

And plenty of rationalizations, like-- what the hell DOES an owner do in the off season anyway?  Never heard that one until this week.  Talk about any port in a storm!

HOLE:

I don't have too much problem with Haslam taking a backseat at this point. At least he's done something in his time and perhaps the Browns will get some useful experience from that. 

AA:

What... that is... THAT?

He came.

He saw.

And with steely determination, he...

hired Banner and Lombardi.

sold stadium naming rights.

pondered stadium improvements, namely a dome.

petitioned the league for friggin' uniform changes.

And lo, on the seventh day, He rested.

I forgot to include paving the way for their being the subject of a travel channel documentary. 

HOLE:

I like the coaches, but I do wonder at the Banner/Lombardi structure. We'll see what they produce. Hopefully it's a winning toy.


AA:

Agree, and what you've articulated is the same old, same old:  doubt about the existing structure and hoping for the best... because we're fans.

But hey, as they used to say at Three Mile Island, that's fuel into the reactor system now.

He's gone back to his professed first love.  At least we know where we stand. 

One for the beat writers to track next fall:  what percentage of the 12 Vols games will Haslam attend versus the 16 Browns games?  Will he jet out to the coast Saturday for the Vols-Ducks, get Flying J work done on the flight back, then after a catnap and two Bloody Marys, muster up the steel determination to take in a Sunday game?

Then surely we're ahead of the game!
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  • mes78
  • Junkyard Terror
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Posted: 2/12/2013 7:34 PM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


Well, I guess that changes everything. Or maybe it won't. To say the least, it caught me by surprise.

My first thoughts were that Daddy's little start up gas station company meant too much to Haslam III to leave in the hands of an outsider. Or he wanted to get his ducks in a row, a la Randy Bonaparte, and then get back to his other interest.

Either way, Haslam's future involvement is unclear to me.

It is much clearer to me, though, that it is the Banner-Lombardi show, and maybe it always was - like Gary has stated.

Maybe Haslam is more like Al, then Randy. Maybe this is like 1999 all over again - shotgun marriage, Policy/Banner CEO hire, Lombardi/Clark GM package deal, Palmer/Chud fallback, 2nd choice leftover.

It be pretty cruel to go back to '99.

Truman didn't have a college degree and was a farmer. No shame in that.
---------------------------------------------
--- Aardvark wrote:

Written by Mes78 just over three weeks ago...

Haslam's actions speak louder than his money, and definitely his words. He stepped down from CEO of Pilot Flying J to focus on the Browns. Randy's personal focus was divided between business, soccer, and the Browns.

Haslam sold the naming rights to raise funds to further making the Browns competitive. Randy, crickets, crickets.

Haslam is currently in the process of stadium improvements to make the gameday experience as enjoyable as other NFL franchises. Randy, not so much.

Haslam immediately bought a home in the area. Randy spent most of his time in NY.

Haslam has taken a leadership role for the organization he owns. Randy hired Holmy to fulfill his duty, so he could finalize his status as the most absentee owner. One step above neglect.

Randy threw money at problems with the organization hoping it would all work out. He couldn't stomach all the responsibilities of being an owner. He went through the motions, at times tried to play the part as much as his personality would allow, and probably agonized over his missteps. Yet, through it all, he could never step up and get his hands dirty and fully embrace his responsibility. At the end, he paid someone else to avoid his position. It was an unfair obligation placed upon him by his father. He never wanted it, but being the good son, being a fan of the team, and a man with no choice, he tried. His heart wasn't in it enough, and so he jumped ship at his first legal opportunity. Hate to break your heart.

Haslam's actions and money say he wants this job. So when Randy and Haslam say similar things or some moves coincide, the perception is overlooking the reality. Jimmy is determined to try and win. Randy would've liked to win to fulfill his obligations.

mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1765& t=11193838&p=3


He came.

He saw.

And with steely determination, he...

hired Banner and Lombardi.

sold stadium naming rights.

pondered stadium improvements, namely a dome.

petitioned the league for friggin' uniform changes.

And lo, on the seventh day, He rested.

The years in the White House weighed heavily on his shoulders.  On his plate?  Only turning back the tide of Communist aggression, the threat of nuclear annihilation, labor strife in the coal and steel industries.  And with a profound sense of purpose satisified, the man  returned to his native Independence and the dry goods store he owned before answering his country's call of duty.  

It would take a committee of men with equal determination to maintain the course this one man so steadily captained for lo, these many... weeks.  But now, his work is done here. 

Mission accomplished.

---------------------------------------------

Last edited 2/12/2013 7:35 PM by mes78

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Posted: 2/12/2013 8:40 PM

Re: Haslam returns to Pilot the Truck Stops 


"AA:

Agree, and what you've articulated is the same old, same old:  doubt about the existing structure and hoping for the best... because we're fans."

-- Let me start with the bottom line we fans end up paying attention to. We come, we see, we hope.

"Why would unions-- or what's left of them-- care who owns a major pro sports team?  Iz got ta know."

-- Player unions would want a team owned by rich owners who can keep paying high player salaries. If that indirectly is propped up by corporate influence in a sport or by higher food and drink prices or by higher ticket prices or by higher whatever, so be it. How fans are emptied of their funds isn't really important as long as players can be paid as well as possible. 

"AA:

No kidding about a different take.  Green Bay is woefully behind the rest of the state in terms of medium income.  This isn't exactly Lake Conemaugh and Carnegie, Mellon, Frick and their South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club cronies."

-- It's too bad if Packer fans end up paying a larger percentage of discretionary funds they may have than other fans from, say, New York. It might be a good thing if fans via community ownership had more real power and influence in how things were done and how funds were handled. 

Not going to happen any time soon, but imagine there's no heaven. Or outside interests that override local influence.

"HOLE:

I don't have too much problem with Haslam taking a backseat at this point. At least he's done something in his time and perhaps the Browns will get some useful experience from that. 

AA:

What... that is... THAT?"

-- Hope. That's what I'm reduced to.
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Posted: 2/13/2013 8:34 AM

Laying the Solid Foundation 


HOLE:

Player unions would want a team owned by rich owners who can keep paying high player salaries.

AA:

And so if a community owned franchise would not be able to pay top dollar in players salaries, then Green Bay must rank pretty low on payroll.  Bottom quarter of the league seem about right?

According to an ESPN article on all professional sports franchises last year (hint:  LeBron, you should have taken up soccer at St. V's), Green Bay finished 10th among NFL teams with highest payroll. 

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7850531/espn-ma gazine-sportingintelligence-global-salary-survey-e spn-magazine

The working class Packers are paying out more in players salaries than notorious free spender Dan Snyder.

HOLE:

 It's too bad if Packer fans end up paying a larger percentage of discretionary funds they may have than other fans from, say, New York.

AA:

They don't.  Green Bay ticket prices are in the middle of the pack among NFL teams.  No surprise that NY and NE are at the top.

From last September...

Besides the Jets and Patriots, three other teams have non-suite tickets that are selling for more than $100: New York Giants ($111.69), Chicago Bears ($110.91) and Dallas Cowboys ($110.20).

The teams with the cheapest average tickets: Cleveland Browns ($54.20), Buffalo Bills ($58.36) and Jacksonville Jaguars ($59.54).


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8345872/new-york -jets-new-england-patriots-highest-ticket-prices-s urvey-shows

We'll see if Haslam keeps the Browns ticket prices down.  And if prices do go up,we'll see which comes first, increased payroll expenditures to justify the increase, or a price increase in order to cover the cost of building a winner.

HOLE:

I don't have too much problem with Haslam taking a backseat at this point. At least he's done something in his time and perhaps the Browns will get some useful experience from that. 

AA:

What... that is... THAT?"

HOLE:
-- Hope. That's what I'm reduced to.

AA:

But what I'm asking is this:  what is the "something" Haslam has done in his short tenure to give you hope?  

If it's just a feeling that he's a winner because he LOOKS and SOUNDS the part, and he took his daddy's company and made it into a far bigger concern, then we run on that hope. 

If it's because he took time from his day job to immerse himself in the Browns, establish the "Solid Foundation," before wiping his hands, declaring "my work's done here.  I'm needed back home,"  then I'd get a building inspector to examine that foundation.   


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Posted: 2/13/2013 2:03 PM

Re: Laying the Solid Foundation 


"HOLE:
-- Hope. That's what I'm reduced to.

AA:

But what I'm asking is this:  what is the "something" Haslam has done in his short tenure to give you hope? "

--  He comes from money, but he has done perhaps more than others who come from money. If so, I hope that will inform his ownership judgment. That's all. The evidence is at best imperfect at this point. The "foundation" isn't set at this point- even though we can opine on the team's current status if we want to. Haslam may be the worst owner the Browns ever had. If so, some people may take a weird satisfaction in that. Hopefully, he isn't. At this point and in light of past Browns' ownership, I bitterly cling to hope.

Teams and unions- Any discussion of a team's salary or ticket prices or anything else has to be made in the framework we have. So be it. Currently the NFL and the players' union put money first. No matter what  persona they want to project.

My point was that maybe it would be much better from a fan pov to have communities take charge of the sport. They could charge a sensible amount to fans and pay players a sensible salary. Then salaries might reflect economic realities rather than the motivations of rich but disconnected owners, corporate interests and union protected players who may be more motivated by their contracts than the community they supposedly represent. 

In addition, medical factors should always take account of the preservation of the real sport and the assumed liability that players enter into when they choose to play professional football. If the NFL and the unions go too far in protecting players, fans may at some point decide the product on the field isn't worth the money they now spend. Just part of the equation in the current situation. 

In light of lawsuits, it may be sensible to require players to enter into a medical contract that defines their status before they ever make contact in an NFL environment. I'm sure their agents would be competent to understand the contract and advise their clients appropriately.

But for now this is all theoretical. It probably couldn't happen unless the NFL becomes a bubble that eventually bursts. What's the chance of that? 
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:04 AM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


MES:

Maybe Haslam is more like Al, then Randy.

AA:

Let's hope for all our sakes that isn't the case.  Al didn't grow up a Browns fan and wasn't even that much of a football fan.  But he saw an opportunity to ingratiate himself to the community, and redeem himself in their eyes for having greased the skids for Modell's departure.  Once he had the franchise, the effort he put it into it was confined to getting a recommendation or two at an owner's cocktail party, then transferring as much responsbility as possible to the other party.

Randy made the effort, but all those "best practices" and golf lessons still resulted in three figure rounds.

I just bristle when anyone tells me that whatever decision they made-- good or bad--- they made it out of a sense of determination and-- dammit, they just care.  So did Randy, so excuse me if I don't think good intentions counts for a warm bucket of spit.

MES:

Truman didn't have a college degree and was a farmer. No shame in that.

AA:

Harry was the last President to not have a college degree.  He grew up on a farm, but tried to get away from the work before going back to his family farm for most of his 20's, until WWI broke out.  He was best known for his haberdasher shop in Kansas City before entering politics.  Truman was a true American original, the likes we'll never see again.
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  • mes78
  • Junkyard Terror
  • 2051 posts this site

Posted: 2/14/2013 7:24 PM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


.

AA:

Let's hope for all our sakes that isn't the case.  Al didn't grow up a Browns fan and wasn't even that much of a football fan.  But he saw an opportunity to ingratiate himself to the community, and redeem himself in their eyes for having greased the skids for Modell's departure.  Once he had the franchise, the effort he put it into it was confined to getting a recommendation or two at an owner's cocktail party, then transferring as much responsbility as possible to the other party.

Randy made the effort, but all those "best practices" and golf lessons still resulted in three figure rounds.

I just bristle when anyone tells me that whatever decision they made-- good or bad--- they made it out of a sense of determination and-- dammit, they just care.  So did Randy, so excuse me if I don't think good intentions counts for a warm bucket of spit.

MES:

I'm not trying to speak for you, but I feel you and I disagree on "determination" vs. obligation. Doing something intrinsically motivated vs. fulfilling someone else's wishes. Haslam chose this spot, Randy's birth forced him into his circumstance. There is an inherent difference.

Randy's soccer ownership vs. Haslam is a different argument. Randy still owns that team and still investing resources in it from what I understand.

Whether or not it leads to success is another topic, and one I am not interested in predicting.
.

AA:

Harry was the last President to not have a college degree.  He grew up on a farm, but tried to get away from the work before going back to his family farm for most of his 20's, until WWI broke out.  He was best known for his haberdasher shop in Kansas City before entering politics.  Truman was a true American original, the likes we'll never see again.

MES:

Harry Truman was a legitimate common man, whose life's story is remarkable. The fact that he had not received a college education, was a product of a dying agrarian society, a WWI Captain, failed businessmen, an honest product of a political machine, and a president that presided over the most important and critical era ever makes him the rarest of rare. I forget why he entered this post, but Al, Randy, Jimmy and/or any other is going to fall short of his life accomplishments.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 2/15/2013 8:36 AM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


MES:

I'm not trying to speak for you, but I feel you and I disagree on "determination" vs. obligation. Doing something intrinsically motivated vs. fulfilling someone else's wishes. Haslam chose this spot, Randy's birth forced him into his circumstance. There is an inherent difference.

AA:

No question, and on that we don't disagree.

I think the reason Al drew up the 10 year stipulation was that he wanted his son to carry on the legacy and have his marine flag flying in the northeast corner of the stadium for decades to come.  Knowing that his son had made his fortune elsewhere and bought his own sports franchise, Al wanted him to give the Browns a fair shot, thinking that perhaps once he got in the saddle, he'd be converted.  And if it didn't work out, then he was free to sell after the stipulated time.

It struck me that Randy gave it an honest effort.  Had his father bought another franchise in '99, Randy would have been less inclined.  But this was the team for which he grew up rooting.  So he tried his best, observing successful franchises and trying to implement best practices.  Unfortunately, every avenue he took led to Nowheresville.

Somewhere along the line, I think he figured that he just wasn't cut out for this line of work, and decided to opt out at the stipulated time.  As said before, WHERE along the line he came to that conclusion, I don't know.  But what we don't know is if Randy's intent ALL ALONG was just to be the caretaker and bide his time, or whether he tried to the best owner possible, and saw the handwriting on the wall so far into the trial period.

OTOH Haslam wanted to be an NFL owner in the worst way, and he was in the market for the first team to come up for sale.  In a perfect world, he would have wanted the Titans.  Failing that, well, you can figure what are the most desirous, high profile franchises.  If he had to list every NFL franchise he would want to purchase in order of preference (and money being no object), I don't know that Cleveland would even make his top half. 
But he secured his franchise, and it was his moment in the sun to shine, to say all the right things, and for fans to eat it up like the hogs that go into packages of Tennessee Pride.

But here's the deal on "determination vs. obligation."

It resulted in similar courses of action.

I'm not talking about cosmetic stuff, like naming rights or figuring how to get customers in their seats at kickoff.  I'm talking about an avowed course of action ("building through the draft" and going easy on free agency), hiring some questionable characters, and knowing that neither owner knows nuthin' 'bout birthin' babies, and hired midwives (Holmgren, Banner) to run the football side... while they go back to their first love (soccer, Flying J), and check in periodically.

But one guy was shy and withdrawn, the other loved attention.  One looked like the guy with a laptop at the corner Starbuck's, the other looked like the commanding officer who would brief the Expendables on their next mission.  One talked the talk, the other hardly talked at all.

And given those images, and the fact that one turned out to be a losing owner while the other was without original sin,  everything was viewed through the honeymoon lenses.

So the fact that one spent a truckload of money on a franchise while the other had one handed to him makes no difference in terms of their ability to set the course for a contender.  The new guy gets some slack because he has yet to string double digit losses together.  But if they essentially do the same thing, what got panned before now gets rationalized.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 10:27 AM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


Good points vark.

However there is a big difference between having a franchise handed to you (to be the caretaker or whatever you can make of it) and spending the $$ Haslam did.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 10:53 AM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


LUMPY:

However there is a big difference between having a franchise handed to you (to be the caretaker or whatever you can make of it) and spending the $$ Haslam did.

AA:

In terms of what?   How well they can set the tone for a successful team?

I know, let's ask the Two Dans!  "Paging Mister Rooney, Mister Snyder..."
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Posted: 2/15/2013 11:19 AM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 


AA:

No question, and on that we don't disagree.

I think the reason Al drew up the 10 year stipulation was that he wanted his son to carry on the legacy and have his marine flag flying in the northeast corner of the stadium for decades to come.  Knowing that his son had made his fortune elsewhere and bought his own sports franchise, Al wanted him to give the Browns a fair shot, thinking that perhaps once he got in the saddle, he'd be converted.  And if it didn't work out, then he was free to sell after the stipulated time.

MES:

You're theory is as good as anyone else's. I don't care to speculate on Al's intentions. Moreso, how Al's Will dictated Randy Bonaparte's decade of ineptitude.

AA:
It struck me that Randy gave it an honest effort.  Had his father bought another franchise in '99, Randy would have been less inclined.  But this was the team for which he grew up rooting.  So he tried his best, observing successful franchises and trying to implement best practices.  Unfortunately, every avenue he took led to Nowheresville.

MES:

This is the beginning of the Randy Bonaparte love affair myth. Who the hell knows if owning your hometown team has any impact on the effort he gave. That's more of a stretch than my determination claim for which you have beef. You either want to do something intrinsically or you don't. Randy never wanted to own the Browns, otherwise he still would. He wanted to own a soccer team that stands a much more expensive path towards success, one which he did not grow up wearing their team's jammies.

The best practices argument is the holy grail point by Randy lovers as evidence that he tried. That's all well and good, but when you are locked into an obligation for 10+ years and under the Cleveland media microscope, what else is he to do? For all his "trying" to learn from the Kraft's and Roony's he seemed to miss one of their very BEST practices - ownership leadership.

Nope Randy was more focused on finding the structure that would allow him to step out of the picture.

AA:
Somewhere along the line, I think he figured that he just wasn't cut out for this line of work, and decided to opt out at the stipulated time.  As said before, WHERE along the line he came to that conclusion, I don't know.  But what we don't know is if Randy's intent ALL ALONG was just to be the caretaker and bide his time, or whether he tried to the best owner possible, and saw the handwriting on the wall so far into the trial period.

MES:

Not disagreeing, but when viewed through a non-Randy-loving lense a different picture forms. We do know some key elements of this proof - Given: Randy inherited the Browns after Al's Death. Answer: Randy sells team at the first opportunity he was legally allowed to do so (deal was consummated prior to this time).

Other factors of consideration:
Randy still owns the more expensive soccer team. So, either Randy still believes he's "cut out", as you would say to still own a professional franchise OR he WANTS to own a soccer team, while he didn't want to own a football team (hometown or not).

Randy at every opportunity tries to hand the keys of leadership to anyone else so he can vacate his responsibilities of ownership, starting with extending Davis and expanding his power, to the Savage-Collins power struggle, to Mangini's kingdom, to Czar Holmgren.

Then, you factor in these nuggets from a 2008 interview and it becomes apparent that he doesn't really care despite claiming the opposite. He talks about stepping out of the way to let others have the authority and not wanting to live in a delusional bubble when commenting about owning the Browns.

sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3725743

By the time of Holmgren's hire, Randy is no longer hiding the obvious truth, that always existed but finally chose not to conceal it, which is he didn't want to own the Browns. All along the way, his ACTIONS showed a pattern of running away from his responsibilities of leadership.

He can say he cared, he can say he wanted a winner, blah blah blah. Those words are as empty as those portraying Haslam as a sun tanned, southern twang, lier. What Randy left unsaid was way more important - he was obligated to own a team and that forced responsibility was a burden he didn't want.

AA:
OTOH Haslam wanted to be an NFL owner in the worst way, and he was in the market for the first team to come up for sale.  In a perfect world, he would have wanted the Titans.  Failing that, well, you can figure what are the most desirous, high profile franchises.  If he had to list every NFL franchise he would want to purchase in order of preference (and money being no object), I don't know that Cleveland would even make his top half. 
But he secured his franchise, and it was his moment in the sun to shine, to say all the right things, and for fans to eat it up like the hogs that go into packages of Tennessee Pride.

MES:
He again is unrelated fluff. Who the hell knows where the Browns ranked on Haslam's list to own and quite frankly who cares? The bigger point is the first sentence you wrote, " Haslam wanted to be an NFL owner in the worst way, and he was in the market for the first team to come up for sale". Intrinsic motivation is determination. Thank you for defining my whole point.

I'd speculate that the lower the Browns were on his list to own, the more proof that Haslam wants to own a team, is thus more proof of a highly competitive owner, and therefore more determined to achieve his goals (stated as winning). Again, that's my own opinion, and has no basis of fact.

AA:
But here's the deal on "determination vs. obligation."

It resulted in similar courses of action.

I'm not talking about cosmetic stuff, like naming rights or figuring how to get customers in their seats at kickoff.  I'm talking about an avowed course of action ("building through the draft" and going easy on free agency), hiring some questionable characters, and knowing that neither owner knows nuthin' 'bout birthin' babies, and hired midwives (Holmgren, Banner) to run the football side... while they go back to their first love (soccer, Flying J), and check in periodically.

MES:
When the events are inaccurate and presented as fact, that's when agenda pushing and bias become clear. Randy's course of action is not similar to Haslam's. Randy extended Butch, the coach he inherited. Haslam fired the coach he inherited. Randy kept Policy on until May, Haslam replaced Holmgren immediately and fired him when he became a distraction. Randy hiring of RAC was not perceived as questionable, Haslam's hiring of Chud was perceived as a 2nd choice. The process was much more encompassing than any Randy process. Randy bought a soccer team while presiding over the Browns, Haslam vacated his family started company leaving full attention to hiring the FO of the Browns. Randy really didn't know much about birthing babies, Haslam tactfully admits to not knowing, but the truth is he was a minority owner in the NFL, and underneath the Roony family to boot - not a complete novice.

In regards to the "avowed" build through the draft/easy on the draft course of action - it's media speak. I know Nas, and others are convinced it's a slow rebuild declaration, but I'm not so sure that it's nothing more then media-speak, fluff. Yes, it be nice to have some hard-a$$ definitive speech where Haslam states with manly conviction that he's going to exhaust every resource available to win now, but that's a huge media trap. It doesn't make winning any more of a reality to publically state anything. So the generic generalization of building through the draft is the cliche answer that most give when discussing philosophical team building. In other words, what else could he say that would answer that question sufficiently without creating problems? Much ado about nothing.

AA:
But one guy was shy and withdrawn, the other loved attention.  One looked like the guy with a laptop at the corner Starbuck's, the other looked like the commanding officer who would brief the Expendables on their next mission.  One talked the talk, the other hardly talked at all.

And given those images, and the fact that one turned out to be a losing owner while the other was without original sin,  everything was viewed through the honeymoon lenses.

MES:
That might be true for some, but really that's your imposed perception of reality to justify an opinion you've created where others disagree.

Going back to the Truman analogy, eventually even Hirohito had to step in and tell the Japanese people via radio announcement that the end was here. No more cover-ups.

AA:
So the fact that one spent a truckload of money on a franchise while the other had one handed to him makes no difference in terms of their ability to set the course for a contender.  The new guy gets some slack because he has yet to string double digit losses together.  But if they essentially do the same thing, what got panned before now gets rationalized.

MES:
The intrinsic motivation of one vs. the obligatory burden of another is the difference between the two. No slack given to either. Look no farther than your champion Randy, he's still owning the soccer team and fighting the good fight against longer odds in the EPL. I commend his determination. I wish he felt that way about owning the Browns.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 11:24 AM

Re: Mission Accomplished! 



Aardvark wrote: LUMPY:

However there is a big difference between having a franchise handed to you (to be the caretaker or whatever you can make of it) and spending the $$ Haslam did.

AA:

In terms of what?   How well they can set the tone for a successful team?

I know, let's ask the Two Dans!  "Paging Mister Rooney, Mister Snyder..."
What I mean is one guy had it handed to him and the other had to buy it.  That's all.
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