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Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again

  • redright
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Posted: 2/8/2013 1:51 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 


Never liked Modell. Not news. Why?  Here's my memory and yes, I am willing to be corrected by those who have better research and computer skills. Vark?

As I remember, Morrison our FB, told the NYC hustler the Browns may be for sale. Art got a group together to buy. Morrison got a small (1 or 2%) interest for putting the deal together. Al Lerner got 43%.  Art ran the show. Team purchased for $ 4,000,000.

Art fired Paul Brown. Ostensibly the game had passed Paul by, really Art wanted things done his way. Blanton retired. The Paul Brown era ended. Browns winning ways ended. Art ran the show.

MNF...Rozelle's big idea. Art as head of media took the credit. Art also took $1,000.000 from the league as a guarantee against a Monday night flop.  Such foresight!

 

League merger. AFL and NFL. AFL needed three franchises. No one wanted to move. Rozelle offered, league offered, $ 3,000,000 to each franchise willing to move to the AFL. Modell and Lerner jumped for the money. Pitt and Blt/Indy went also, but they were minor interest teams and not stable franchises. Browns leaving the NFL ended the best rivalry the NFL had...NY Giants vs the Browns. Took Cleveland from the front page to who cares? me.

 

Math... Paid $4m...got $1m + $3M....not a bad deal.

 

MUNI is a mess. City offers the stadium to the Browns for $1.oo. Yes, One dollar but it is 20 year deal and all games must be played in the MUNI. Such a deal. Art cuts out Al. Mr Greedy doesn't know the MUNI needs a lot of repair. It is a loser. Art takes money from on going operations of the Browns and uses it to keep the stadium up. Al doesn't take kindly to the Modell treatment and sues SIX time for accountings.

 

Modell thinks of himself as an entertainment genius. His wife has been in some TV, Broadway stints. Art invests in sure fire winners and loses some $ 43,000,000. Art is broke and no one will bail him out.

 

Baltimore wants a team. It will pay big bucks and provide $43,000,000 in transfer monies. Just enough to bail out Art.

 

Problem, The City of Cleveland has a contract requiring all games to be played in Cleveland for three more years.


Problem, No team has ever moved if it had a lease or agreement with any city. Even the Colts left Blt when the City didn't give them a lease. Irsay leaving in the dead of night. NO different than any other tenant whose lease was not renewed by the landlord. My memory is the town fathers of Blt made it clear that the Colts could go if they expected any consideration from the City.  Al Davis honored his commitments to Oakland and LA. Houston to KC, Hunt.. same story.

 

Problem, the deal with Modell and Cleveland contained a 20 year provision. It was the intent to build a Basketball Arena and a  Baseball Stadium and then build a new Football Stadium

 

Cleveland completed its buildouts and was preparing financing for a new Cleveland Brown Stadium.  A bonding issue was put on the ballot for approval to construct a new football stadium

 

Art and Al took the money and moved. Broke their committment to Cleveland and the Browns.

 

Isn't the real reason Cleveland got a team within three years based in the requirement the City could force the league to have all Browns games played in Cleveland and not Baltimore? Surely the reality of litigation between Cleveland and the NFL would have cost the NFL dearly. If not financially, certainly its image.

 

I could type a lot. No need to. Vark and others are counted upon to flesh out this topic.  Gary may make some worthy contributions for As I never liked Modell, I don't have a high opinion of Al and his irrelevant son.  In my distorted view, I see Art and Al getting up four million dollars to buy a team and having the league provide them with four million dollars down the line. Both made a lot of money. Both made a king's ransom abusing the City of Cleveland and its football fans.  While some may say Modell and the Lerners did a lot for football and Cleveland, I think of a billion reasons how Cleveland did a lot for Modell and Lerner.

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Posted: 2/8/2013 2:00 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 


Whoa red......!!

It's gonna take me a while to digest this.
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  • PeterB58
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Posted: 2/8/2013 3:35 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 



redright wrote:


Problem, No team has ever moved if it had a lease or agreement with any city. Even the Colts left Blt when the City didn't give them a lease. Irsay leaving in the dead of night. NO different than any other tenant whose lease was not renewed by the landlord. My memory is the town fathers of Blt made it clear that the Colts could go if they expected any consideration from the City.

Uh...no.  While the lease with Irsay had expired, the city was negotiating (in good faith it thought) an extension along with plans for a new stadium (what turned out to be the early designs of Camden Yards).

This after Irsay had been openly negotiating with other cities to move his team.  Being caught drunk at BWI airport returning from Phoenix and filmed helicoptering onto the 50-yard line of the Gator Bowl in front of 45,000 people during Jacksonville's "Colt Fever" campaign (not exactly the Lerner spy plane on the tarmac at BWI).

In March 1984, Several state legislators got wind that Irsay was close to completing a deal with an unknown city and tried to prevent it with eminent domain legislation.  It would not have held up in court, but it spooked Irsay enough.  That's when he bolted.  No one ever told Irsay to "go ahead and leave" as you seem to imply.

Hindsight being 1000/20, the city and state were never in synch in their negotiations with Irsay.  Some wanted to give him whatever it took to get him to stay, others played varying degrees of hardball.  They should have presented a clear, consistent message....especially to someone that was blasted out of his mind half the time....if it was before noon.

And in further hindsight Maryland should have just built him a new stadium and waited the damned old drunk out until he died.  12 years of horrific football with the Peyton Manning rainbow at the end would have been better than 12 years of nothing....for Baltimore and Cleveland.

Last edited 2/8/2013 3:55 PM by PeterB58

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Posted: 2/8/2013 5:04 PM

Art's Porn Theatre 


Agree that the game had passed Paul Brown by to some extent, or he had become a little too self satisfied to keep up.  But even before Graham retired, there was some grumbling that PB's offensive schemes were getting stale.

In fairness, Modell was not a big "my way or the highway" kinda guy.  He revered Brown and left the football side to him.  But PB was just so imperious and dictatorial in his old age, it was like he saw such deference as a weakness to be spit upon.  Some say that Modell alienated the players against him.  Actually I think they shared a bond of both being under PB's thumb, and could identify with each other.

When Ernie Davis was found to have leukemia, Modell wanted some way, any way, to simply put him out on the field in a cursory way in preseason as a morale booster to him, the players and the fans.  PB would have nothing to do with it.  Whether it was medically wise or not, I don't know.  But I think Modell felt like he wasn't asking for much, and just got dumped on at every turn.  PB really brought his firing upon himself.

As for the idea of MNF, the usual lightweight sources say Pete Rozelle.  But I'm wondering if the tv committee didn't generate the idea, and then Rozelle, as Commissioner, was the designated point man with the networks.   It's like a lot of work done in the NFL by committees.  It starts with them, and then the Commissioner has the job of carrying it out.  Didn't mean it was his idea.

Living in Pittsburgh at the time of the Move, I didn't get too many particulars.  It just struck me that Art had to work overtime with rationales when the reaction against the move was even more vocal than he anticipated.  He just wasn't proactive and was always well behind the curve.   If an owner wants to stay, he will.   He'll work it out.  Modell was like the desperate gambler who knew his debts would be forgiven, if he just told the collector where his federal prosecutor daughter lived, the one trying to convict the local mobster. 

Remember when the Indians were hot and the Jake was new?  Remember when some national game would show a glitzy new stadium and announcers would talk about how it was all part of the city's great comeback?

Hmm, what were those cosmetic moments that helped make Cleveland the Mistake on the Lake?  Besides the obvious like the Cuyahoga catching fire?

IMO, one was the MLB All-Star game in 1981.  It provided the nation a rare opportunity to see a night game in cavernously dark Municipal Stadium.  What a scary looking dump (and it was far worse watching a local weeknight telecast with 6k bodies sprinkled among 78k seats).  I know, I was there.  And I was sitting in the upper deck, six rows from the top, in the second to last section from the bleachers.  With the exception of someone watching the new LA Dodgers from right field in the Coliseum, no human beings could be as far away from home plate.  

I have great memories growing up to games there, but the realization then and there, having gone away and come back home, was that it was waaay beyond time to build new stadiums (and that was around the time that the multi-use stadiums had been around long enough that people could see they weren't so hot, especially for baseball). 

Maybe it didn't turn out as a great idea ending up in Doo Dah Land, but at least Nick Miletti knew that he couldn't be in the Cleveland Arena any longer than necessary.

Whether Modell was an owner or a tenant, making fixes or demanding them be made were secondary when the fans showed up in droves.  The Muni was like a giant porn theatre.  Seats falling apart, plaster off the ceiling, the restroom is a biohazard... but if they keep showing up every Sunday for the double bill (where's Bernie's daughter?), then there was no incentive to fix anything.   That would go against my bottom line.

If you build it, they will come?  I don't have to spend a dime on a 2 x 4, and they're coming anyway!  It's all money!

But then new stadiums with loges meant that money could be made on a lot more than just butts in seats.  Only you can't put flashy loges in an old downtown porn theatre. 

Modell missed the boat by a good solid decade, so then needed to sell his soul for a financial out.  He waited too long, then expected others to fix it for him.  He went years grudgingly accepting what he had, and then when city fathers told him his turn would come, he suddenly couldn't wait another second.

And for all this, the guy warrants being a finalist for the HOF? 

A little overkill on the gold star for attendance.
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  • redright
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Posted: 2/8/2013 6:00 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 



PeterB58 wrote:
redright wrote:


Problem, No team has ever moved if it had a lease or agreement with any city. Even the Colts left Blt when the City didn't give them a lease. Irsay leaving in the dead of night. NO different than any other tenant whose lease was not renewed by the landlord. My memory is the town fathers of Blt made it clear that the Colts could go if they expected any consideration from the City.

Uh...no.  While the lease with Irsay had expired, the city was negotiating (in good faith it thought) an extension along with plans for a new stadium (what turned out to be the early designs of Camden Yards).

This after Irsay had been openly negotiating with other cities to move his team.  Being caught drunk at BWI airport returning from Phoenix and filmed helicoptering onto the 50-yard line of the Gator Bowl in front of 45,000 people during Jacksonville's "Colt Fever" campaign (not exactly the Lerner spy plane on the tarmac at BWI).

In March 1984, Several state legislators got wind that Irsay was close to completing a deal with an unknown city and tried to prevent it with eminent domain legislation.  It would not have held up in court, but it spooked Irsay enough.  That's when he bolted.  No one ever told Irsay to "go ahead and leave" as you seem to imply.

Hindsight being 1000/20, the city and state were never in synch in their negotiations with Irsay.  Some wanted to give him whatever it took to get him to stay, others played varying degrees of hardball.  They should have presented a clear, consistent message....especially to someone that was blasted out of his mind half the time....if it was before noon.

And in further hindsight Maryland should have just built him a new stadium and waited the damned old drunk out until he died.  12 years of horrific football with the Peyton Manning rainbow at the end would have been better than 12 years of nothing....for Baltimore and Cleveland.
Uh We disagree.  My buddy was and is Colt fan. Followed it closely.  My memory is of a disagreeable city counsel until it was too late, much like Homestead Fla did with the Indians. After the team moves on, the blame campaign begins.
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  • redright
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Posted: 2/8/2013 6:20 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 


Peter,

Here is a launching point for your review of the conditions existing when Irsay and Balt addressed the Stadium or Move situation. I have a definite memory of a city hall member speaking of not wasting any money on the Colts and if they didn 't like it too bad. Some of the councillors represented districts in which the homeowners were unhappy with the Colts games and the fans taking over their neighborhood. Further, A new stadium would cost a lot of money, raise taxes and upset a lot of voters.

 You may have a memory of Irsay being a drunk. Okay, but how is it that drunk could get a bright and shiny new dome stadium in Indy? Could there be some fault of Baltimore?  I'm going with more than a lot. Especially so in viewing the arrogance of the "lawmakers" in attempting to seize his team.



The Colts were unhappy with the condition of the stadium they played in and Indianapolis offered them a new indoor dome.

Robert Irsay, the Colts owner, had many problems with Baltimore and the stadium, Memorial stadium.

1. Due to being far from the downtown area and any major highway, traffic to and from Colt games was very heavy and tied up traffic and trapped locals in their homes. It was also hard to find being about seven miles fron the downtown area on 33rd street. Many fans got lost getting to or coming from the stadium.

2. The stadium was a very poor football stadium and the seating bowl ended at the fifty yard line, the end zone near 36th street was open taking away money making seats. It also no club level. It was far behind its time.

3. The city of Baltimore would not allow the Colts to play at the NFL's usual start time at one. Instead, they started at two which by law. Sports events were not allow to start before two on Sundays. Because of this the Colts had a hard time being on national T.V.

4. The Orioles, the city's baseball team, also used the stadium and had control over food sales, and parking fees even during football season despite the fact that both teams payed a rent fee.

5. The team was playing poorly and attentence went to about 20,000 in a stadium that could hold 60,000.

6. The city wanted to upgrade the stadium but both teams had different demands and the city could not make both happy so it did not upgrade the stadium.

In the spring of 1984 the Colts lease on the stadium was up and Irsay wanted a new stadium or to move. Instead of working out plans with Irsay, Maryland's senate passed a law that allowed the state to take the team from him by the powers of eminemt domain. All that was needed was the law to pass by the House of Delegates. That was enough for Irsay to decide what to do. He moved his team Indianapols and its Hoosier Dome. Baltimore did however learn from its mistakes. When the Orioles said they had a lot of the same problems with the stadium (location and condition for example,) and threatened to move to Washington D.C., Baltimore built Oriole Park at Camden Yards . Just six years later they would build M&T Bank Stadium for a new NFL team, the Ravens.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_...leave_Baltimore

Again this is just a place to begin.  You may develop a different view of the matters when you look at both sides anew.

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  • redright
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Posted: 2/8/2013 6:34 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 



Lumpy wrote: Whoa red......!!

It's gonna take me a while to digest this.

Tip of the iceberg, Lumpy.
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  • redright
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Posted: 2/8/2013 6:42 PM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 


V

When Ernie Davis was found to have leukemia, Modell wanted some way, any way, to simply put him out on the field in a cursory way in preseason as a morale booster to him, the players and the fans.  PB would have nothing to do with it.  Whether it was medically wise or not, I don't know.  But I think Modell felt like he wasn't asking for much, and just got dumped on at every turn.  PB really brought his firing upon himself

R

One side of the story and it was the starting or ending point.  I've read Paul didn't want to have Ernie Davis used.  Ernie was not football ready and Paul bristled at the thought of Art wanting to get some return on his investment in Davis.  Not surprisingly, I am on the good for Paul Brown showing character and standing up to Modell. A lot of coaches would have let the boss have his way without regard for the player, man, Ernie Davis.

Nice report.
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  • PeterB58
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Posted: 2/9/2013 11:38 AM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 



redright wrote: Peter,

You may have a memory of Irsay being a drunk. Okay, but how is it that drunk could get a bright and shiny new dome stadium in Indy? Could there be some fault of Baltimore?  I'm going with more than a lot. Especially so in viewing the arrogance of the "lawmakers" in attempting to seize his team.

Indianapolis didn't care who owned the team...they just wanted a team.

And I have never said that Baltimore was blameless...many (too many) politicians were outspoken in their vitriol of Irsay...after 10 years of arguably the worst ownership in the NFL, it sounded good to voters.  Shockingly, most politicians didn't have the wisdom or the courage to take the long view:  Just build a new damn stadium, and wait the owner out.

The Colts were unhappy with the condition of the stadium they played in and Indianapolis offered them a new indoor dome.

Robert Irsay, the Colts owner, had many problems with Baltimore and the stadium, Memorial stadium.

1. Due to being far from the downtown area and any major highway, traffic to and from Colt games was very heavy and tied up traffic and trapped locals in their homes. It was also hard to find being about seven miles fron the downtown area on 33rd street. Many fans got lost getting to or coming from the stadium.


(snipped the rest)

Irsay did not live in Baltimore.  He flew in on game days from Chicago, at about 10:00 AM, usually already tipsy...he went to the stadium and pounded beers during the game...maybe calling a play or two down to the sideline...then after the game, in locker room, he would drunkenly love everybody or hate everybody (perhaps try to fire a coach or two), depending on the game's outcome...back to the airport that night and back to Chicago.

That owner cared about the fan experience in Baltimore?  I care about your so I am going to take your team away?  With all due respect, whoever wrote that (even if it was someone from Baltimore), doesn't have a ******* clue.

Again this is just a place to begin.  You may develop a different view of the matters when you look at both sides anew.

Nope...my view remains the same.  Modell and Irsay were far from perfect owners.  While Modell may have been a average to below-average owner; Irsay ranks up there with one of the worst owners in professional sports.

Both Balitimore and Cleveland gambled in varying degrees that they could keep their teams in a antiquated stadium (at least in the short-term) without consequences.  Whether they thought they had the assurances of the owner about not leaving or not, it flew in the face of where the rest of the league was going in terms of new stadiums.  They were in a sense, playing with fire.

Or they mis-calculated that if the team did move, they would quickly re-enter the NFL and move on, sans poor owner, as successful NFL teams.

With Pete Rozelle privately stating that Baltimore would get a team in the next expansion round (expected at that time in 1986-87), I don't think Baltimore envisioned it would take 12 years and a round of hardball with the league to force their way back into the NFL.

Cleveland...while getting a replacement team quickly...I suspect didn't think that the return to competitive football would be so hard.

Last edited 2/9/2013 11:44 AM by PeterB58

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  • redright
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Posted: 2/11/2013 7:42 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 


Peter,

Two feet of Cleveland in my back yard and power returned today, so I am a little late in responding.

Not concerned about who is the bigger slime ball, neither owner is hail fellow well met. The difference is in the cities. I am not nor have I ever been a resident of Ohio or Maryland.  I don't have a bias in this view of the cities.  Here is the difference.

Cleveland gave Modell a stadium for one dollar and a promise to build a new stadium in 20 years. Twenty years as they had to build a basket ball arena, a baseball park, science museum, rock and roll hall of fame, etc. Fine says Modell and I will have the Browns play all of their games at the Muni until the new stadium can be built on the adjoining parking lot. In year 17, Modell breaks his lease and bolts to Baltimore. The ONLY owner in the NFL to not honor his comittments to a city. 

Please don't think I am going to cry a river over Baltimore not getting a team for  years. The only reason Cleveland got team in three  years, they had the NFL over a barrel...no team..no colors, then the Baltimore Browns can play the next three in the empty mistake by the lake in Cleveland Ohio.

OK, You take some comfort in Irsay being a Chi-town carpet bagger. Modell was a NYC carpetbagger. Irsay had no ties to the community??? Hello""" maybe the town farthers should have a clue. If cities are begging for franchises and throwing money at an owner without ties to the community, perhaps arrogance and high handed treatment is not the way to go. Baltimore and Maryland gave the Colts short-shrift. Irsay did nothing more than you or I or any sane person would do... go to where you are wanted. How wanted? Indiana and Indianapolis threw millions at him to come. Baltimore and MD gave Irsay the finger and he returned the same.  Can you say comeuppance?

Can you find any outreach, inducement, willingness of the City of Baltimore to make the retention of the Colts attractive?  I know of none. Never heard of any effort on behalf of the people or city to spend millions to keep the Colts in Baltimore. Cleveland had the construction, bond for building the stadium, on the ballot when Art left.

And just in case you think I am unaware of the difficulties a community has in building a stadium or retaining a franchise in a community, Boston had a terrible time and failed in building stadiums or arenas for the Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics and Patriots. The Red Sox got a re-make, the Celtics and Bruins gotg a new arena, the Patriots got a new stadium half-way between Boston and Providence.

Please go to square one. Review the happenings that forced the move out of Baltimore. I gave you a starting point. With a little research, you will discover how shabbily the City of Baltimore treated the NFL and Irsay and how disingenuous the politicians have been.

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Posted: 3/5/2013 8:49 PM

Re: Modell misses Hall of Fame vote again 


"Please go to square one. Review the happenings that forced the move out of Baltimore. I gave you a starting point. With a little research, you will discover how shabbily the City of Baltimore treated the NFL and Irsay and how disingenuous the politicians have been."

-- Hey, the Rats just got handed- I mean won- a Super Bowl! Don't confuse the argument with facts.

This sort of debate just underscores to me how moneyed fools should be taken out of the ownership equation and communities that actually support and pay for a team should have control. They should take a "less is more" approach and aim to have a good team at a reasonable price. Overpaid prima donnas, corporations and faceless bureaucratics need not apply.

That's a possible situation that can only come about if things as they are really change.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 11:54 AM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 


"He went years grudgingly accepting what he had, and then when city fathers told him his turn would come, he suddenly couldn't wait another second."

-- And that- to me- is the real bottom-line. Put aside any quibbles about who did what to who. Fascinating, but it's beside the point.

Why should the Modells or the Irsays or any other owner be put in a position where they can do things as they see fit- even if it means cheap-shotting the fans or the community that has been a patron for the team? Why should any owner be independent from the community- which gives the team it's persona and provides it a marketplace- and be allowed the power to do things as they see fit? 

A fundamental change to the power structure of pro sports is overdue. A change that will have financial ramifications that may help fans even as it moderates the now deep pockets of administrators and players. A change that would put more emphasis on the sport and on the fans and not so much on the interests of moneyed fools- whether they are owners or administrators (management or labor) or corporate geeks or players. Maybe less money taken from the fans and more real sports provided to them.

I understand that individuals started pro sports. But when owners are free to do what they choose- and corporations and unions have gotten more influence- the fans have often gotten less. At a certain point the current way teams are held and administered needs to be looked at and addressed.

There is a "porn theatre" (or "theater" if you don't own a soccer team) aspect to much of the business side of sports and the life-styles it enables.

When the Modells of the world are stopped from entering the HOF- however it happened- that underlines the need for a change. And ultimately speaks to the real bottom-line.

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Posted: 3/6/2013 1:10 PM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 



HeadHole wrote: "He went years grudgingly accepting what he had, and then when city fathers told him his turn would come, he suddenly couldn't wait another second."

-- And that- to me- is the real bottom-line. Put aside any quibbles about who did what to who. Fascinating, but it's beside the point.

Why should the Modells or the Irsays or any other owner be put in a position where they can do things as they see fit- even if it means cheap-shotting the fans or the community that has been a patron for the team? Why should any owner be independent from the community- which gives the team it's persona and provides it a marketplace- and be allowed the power to do things as they see fit? 

A fundamental change to the power structure of pro sports is overdue. A change that will have financial ramifications that may help fans even as it moderates the now deep pockets of administrators and players. A change that would put more emphasis on the sport and on the fans and not so much on the interests of moneyed fools- whether they are owners or administrators (management or labor) or corporate geeks or players. Maybe less money taken from the fans and more real sports provided to them.

I understand that individuals started pro sports. But when owners are free to do what they choose- and corporations and unions have gotten more influence- the fans have often gotten less. At a certain point the current way teams are held and administered needs to be looked at and addressed.

There is a "porn theatre" (or "theater" if you don't own a soccer team) aspect to much of the business side of sports and the life-styles it enables.

When the Modells of the world are stopped from entering the HOF- however it happened- that underlines the need for a change. And ultimately speaks to the real bottom-line.




Have no idea where you are going with this.

In spirit, I am with you. Professional franchises are civic assets. I get it.

In reality these are privately held companies and this is America. You're yelling at clouds.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 2:32 PM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 


" You're yelling at clouds."

-- Although I don't remember all of my earlier times, I don't think I've ever yelled at clouds.

"Have no idea where you are going with this."

-- Simple. I am stating what needs to happen in the future. When that is, who knows? But a certain current situation doesn't preclude a future situation yet to happen. Just detains it. 

"In spirit, I am with you. Professional franchises are civic assets. I get it.

In reality these are privately held companies and this is America."

-- There are two POVs in your comments. Spirit and reality. I think both do exist and can't sustain a co-existence when there is a viable option. Not a simple option, but a viable one that puts communities, sports and fans above self-entitled rich guys, corporate interests and labor goons. 

As an example, look at the Packers' structure. Now imagine a structure somewhat like that for the entire NFL, but take out the influences of corporations and player unions and replace them with the influences of the common good. How this structure is managed can be determined- as long as fan and community interests are first and foremost.

Players would be given a decent salary and given a good medical plan that has clearly defined limitations from day one. The players can agree to it or seek employment elsewhere, Thanks for coming and good luck. With communities calling the shots, no need for labor unions trying to split a pie that no longer exists. As said, fans and communities come first at the trough.

The fans- or a community- would be paying for a good sport unhampered by too much corporate or union power. Go to the reasonably priced stadium to watch a good game free of moneyed fools. 

In reality, certainly not something that's going to happen very soon. But the spirit is there.

So far, I'm okay with sports as they are. But my patience for some things is challenged. I take pleasure in thinking how sports could be improved.

Seeing Modell get his deceased a** kicked yet again is icing on the cake.




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Posted: 3/6/2013 3:14 PM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 



HeadHole wrote: " You're yelling at clouds."

-- Although I don't remember all of my earlier times, I don't think I've ever yelled at clouds.

"Have no idea where you are going with this."

-- Simple. I am stating what needs to happen in the future. When that is, who knows? But a certain current situation doesn't preclude a future situation yet to happen. Just detains it. 

"In spirit, I am with you. Professional franchises are civic assets. I get it.

In reality these are privately held companies and this is America."

-- There are two POVs in your comments. Spirit and reality. I think both do exist and can't sustain a co-existence when there is a viable option. Not a simple option, but a viable one that puts communities, sports and fans above self-entitled rich guys, corporate interests and labor goons. 

As an example, look at the Packers' structure. Now imagine a structure somewhat like that for the entire NFL, but take out the influences of corporations and player unions and replace them with the influences of the common good. How this structure is managed can be determined- as long as fan and community interests are first and foremost.

Players would be given a decent salary and given a good medical plan that has clearly defined limitations from day one. The players can agree to it or seek employment elsewhere, Thanks for coming and good luck. With communities calling the shots, no need for labor unions trying to split a pie that no longer exists. As said, fans and communities come first at the trough.

The fans- or a community- would be paying for a good sport unhampered by too much corporate or union power. Go to the reasonably priced stadium to watch a good game free of moneyed fools. 

In reality, certainly not something that's going to happen very soon. But the spirit is there.

So far, I'm okay with sports as they are. But my patience for some things is challenged. I take pleasure in thinking how sports could be improved.

Seeing Modell get his deceased a** kicked yet again is icing on the cake.







There's a reason the NFL owners have made the GB arrangement unique and no longer available. Anything other than status quo moving in the opposite direction you suggest has the potential of about nil. It'll only get worse with PPV and other sorts of things that alienate fans for revenue.

But I have never been one to stand in the way of a good, populist rant, so keep yelling at those clouds.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 6:50 PM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 


"But I have never been one to stand in the way of a good, populist rant, so keep yelling at those clouds."

-- Actually if you choose to call things as rants or as yelling at clouds, then you are trying to verbally stand in the way. Which is okay. It means as much as my writings if you want it to.

"There's a reason the NFL owners have made the GB arrangement unique and no longer available."

-- Oh I'm sure there is a reason. The owners and their boys and the union and their boys and the corporations and their boys all have reasons to keep things more or less as they are as long as it keeps money rolling in.

"Anything other than status quo moving in the opposite direction you suggest has the potential of about nil. It'll only get worse with PPV and other sorts of things that alienate fans for revenue."

-- The status quo is another way of saying things as they now are. And there are strong interests wanting to keep a good thing going for themselves as I said above. The interesting factor in all of this is that the NFL is a public entertainment and is ostensibly legally flexible. That means it can be criticized and can be changed- or even broken up- if the fee-paying entity- the fans and the communities- make a rational and organized effort to change it.

Or they can go along with the "status quo", complain a bit and shrug their shoulders. Which is what so far we have done. 

What I'm talking about wouldn't be an adjustment or a photo-op throw-away. It would in fact be a sea-change. So it is by definition something that would require a new "status quo" and would have power and control go to new entities. In that sense, I acknowledge that it lies in the future as long as fans and communities keep forking over their own interests.

To dismiss it as a "rant" or as "yelling at the clouds" is to accept the status quo and to be a "useful fool" like I have been for the current NFL power structure. But hey, at least a product of sorts will get trotted out onto the field. 


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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:17 PM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 


Calling it a rant wasn't meant as an insult. Wasn't my intent.

Yelling at clouds wasn't meant as a diss either. Just a way of saying you're making a point to a group that couldn't care le$$. You intent is noble.

I'll leave it all there. Cheers.
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Posted: 3/7/2013 10:35 AM

Re: Art's Porn Theatre 


"Calling it a rant wasn't meant as an insult. Wasn't my intent.

Yelling at clouds wasn't meant as a diss either."

-- Noted. Don't worry. I don't go away from this board feeling dissed or insulted. Life, as they say, is too short.

"Just a way of saying you're making a point to a group that couldn't care le$$."

-- That's a point of view that needs to change. We'll see. And I like the dollar signs. So appropriate.

"You intent is noble."

-- Well, I think of it as simple common sense. Which hopefully will get more focused as the NFL bubble grows. As it will. I take solace in the old saying: If it can't last it won't last. (Look at what happened to the old USSR).

"I'll leave it all there. Cheers."

-- Yes. Enough talk and forum exchanges. No point after awhile. Cheers.


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Posted: 3/11/2013 9:23 AM

Opiated masses 


HH:

To dismiss it as a "rant" or as "yelling at the clouds" is to accept the status quo and to be a "useful fool" like I have been for the current NFL power structure. But hey, at least a product of sorts will get trotted out onto the field.

AA:

60's flashback.  If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.  Opiated masses. Whadya gonna do with 'em?

Agree with Nas.  Noble and all, etc. 

But where I think a sea change could happen, and COULD have happened is if Randy Lerner actually walked the walk when he talked about an owner being a STEWARD (though maybe he meant it more in the sense of "caretaker"), was to give the public a year's notice that he would be selling the franchise and announce his keen interest in selling it to a structure like Green Bay's, and then have a local grassroots organization employ some erstwhile lawyers to challenge the NFL ownership rules in court.

Otherwise, you'd need a reincarnated Hugo Chavez elected President and nationalizing the NFL. 
And as much as some would like to think Obama is that very reincarnation, he's not.

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