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Weeden, QBs and the draft

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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:15 PM

Weeden, QBs and the draft 


So Haslam says Weeden will have competition next year. Thought this through and I think its a good idea. Maybe Weeden has it, and if he does, competition is not going to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't, in which case, the sooner we get someone else the better. It's not like Weeden lit up the league last year, he flashed, but lots of QBs flash. What he didn't do was play well consistently, or show a steady upward trend of reading defenses and exploiting weaknesses. It might be better coaching, but again, competition should not hurt. Exhibit 1A, Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn.

Speaking of, what are the options for bringing in some competition. Alex Smith or Matt Flynn would be alright with me, we've got the cap, might as well spend some of it if the guaranteed money isn't that big. And if the coaches believe those guys can fit and excel in Cleveland. Put 'em up against Weeden and see what happens.

If they don't want to go that route, I wouldn't blink twice in using our first pick on a QB. Matter of fact, if I were GM, I'd use my first or second pick in every draft on a QB until I found one. It's a roll of the dice, but until you Yahtzee a QB, you're going nowhere anyway. Fill in around that pick with whatever else you can get and free agents.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:03 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Gameface64 wrote: So Haslam says Weeden will have competition next year. Thought this through and I think its a good idea. Maybe Weeden has it, and if he does, competition is not going to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't, in which case, the sooner we get someone else the better. It's not like Weeden lit up the league last year, he flashed, but lots of QBs flash. What he didn't do was play well consistently, or show a steady upward trend of reading defenses and exploiting weaknesses. It might be better coaching, but again, competition should not hurt. Exhibit 1A, Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn.

Speaking of, what are the options for bringing in some competition. Alex Smith or Matt Flynn would be alright with me, we've got the cap, might as well spend some of it if the guaranteed money isn't that big. And if the coaches believe those guys can fit and excel in Cleveland. Put 'em up against Weeden and see what happens.

If they don't want to go that route, I wouldn't blink twice in using our first pick on a QB. Matter of fact, if I were GM, I'd use my first or second pick in every draft on a QB until I found one. It's a roll of the dice, but until you Yahtzee a QB, you're going nowhere anyway. Fill in around that pick with whatever else you can get and free agents.
SD:

I wouldn't pull the trigger on a QB in this draft class before the third round .

Doesn't make sense with so much better defensive talent to reach for 2nd tier QB talent in the first round in panic , bad enough they'll be a frenzy of desperation for those picking high beret of even a Weed type talent who will try and justify such waste with such doomed moves and I pray its not us.

You can upgrade the competition at the spot thru free agency without wasting resources should Weeds pan out .

DA would push Weeden , same big arm and knows the offense ,and wouldn't cost draft picks , allows you to push Weeds  and develop him and leaves room for a third wheel to develop .

Nat Moore would cost less than Smith and also give you a push .

Flynn isn't a fit in this scheme , his arm is only slightly stronger than McCoys , and just had his clock cleaned by a rookie , so thats paise.

Smith has more experience than Weeds , but his arm isn't as good , although he could execute a ball control type scheme , I feel the big cash and essentially giving up on Weeden without leaving him an opening to be the man in his second year ,would be counterproductive .

Use these methods and leave your resources available to shop for QB talent via the draft in 2014 if Weeds doesn't respond.

Too soon to pitch him , and Marylynn Monroe ain't in this class, that you could draft her and kick him to the curb.

$.02


SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:27 PM

RE: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


I don't like the owner making this statement. I hope this was something discussed with the coaching staff rather than his own proclamation. The Jerry Jones scenario takes another step.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:19 AM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


I'm not sure what he means by "competition". Real competition like Alex Smith or Geno Smith or just a journeyman vet?

I'm not a big fan of bringing in the next Dilfer or Delhomme and igniting a QB controversy. I thought Lewis looked pretty decent against the Steelers considering it was his first game. McCoy needs to go after admitting he was throwing incomplete passes on purpose.

They need to get to the cap floor so signing a veteran QB to create the illusion of competition would be doable and probably what they have in mind.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:45 AM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


Agree that no reason to over reach in the draft or overpay in FA for a mild upgrade . They either think someone is truly worth it or not. Btw. Do you have the link that Colt said he purposely missed his receivers? Never saw it

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:47 AM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



SoulDawg74 wrote:
Gameface64 wrote: So Haslam says Weeden will have competition next year. Thought this through and I think its a good idea. Maybe Weeden has it, and if he does, competition is not going to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't, in which case, the sooner we get someone else the better. It's not like Weeden lit up the league last year, he flashed, but lots of QBs flash. What he didn't do was play well consistently, or show a steady upward trend of reading defenses and exploiting weaknesses. It might be better coaching, but again, competition should not hurt. Exhibit 1A, Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn.

Speaking of, what are the options for bringing in some competition. Alex Smith or Matt Flynn would be alright with me, we've got the cap, might as well spend some of it if the guaranteed money isn't that big. And if the coaches believe those guys can fit and excel in Cleveland. Put 'em up against Weeden and see what happens.

If they don't want to go that route, I wouldn't blink twice in using our first pick on a QB. Matter of fact, if I were GM, I'd use my first or second pick in every draft on a QB until I found one. It's a roll of the dice, but until you Yahtzee a QB, you're going nowhere anyway. Fill in around that pick with whatever else you can get and free agents.
SD:

I wouldn't pull the trigger on a QB in this draft class before the third round .

Doesn't make sense with so much better defensive talent to reach for 2nd tier QB talent in the first round in panic , bad enough they'll be a frenzy of desperation for those picking high beret of even a Weed type talent who will try and justify such waste with such doomed moves and I pray its not us.

You can upgrade the competition at the spot thru free agency without wasting resources should Weeds pan out .

DA would push Weeden , same big arm and knows the offense ,and wouldn't cost draft picks , allows you to push Weeds  and develop him and leaves room for a third wheel to develop .

Nat Moore would cost less than Smith and also give you a push .

Flynn isn't a fit in this scheme , his arm is only slightly stronger than McCoys , and just had his clock cleaned by a rookie , so thats paise.

Smith has more experience than Weeds , but his arm isn't as good , although he could execute a ball control type scheme , I feel the big cash and essentially giving up on Weeden without leaving him an opening to be the man in his second year ,would be counterproductive .

Use these methods and leave your resources available to shop for QB talent via the draft in 2014 if Weeds doesn't respond.

Too soon to pitch him , and Marylynn Monroe ain't in this class, that you could draft her and kick him to the curb.

$.02


SoulDawg
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:49 AM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



PROSECUTOR wrote:
I'm not a big fan of bringing in the next Dilfer or Delhomme and igniting a QB controversy.

^^^

This, too.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:56 AM

RE: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


I don't think the Browns should waste a pick on a QB in this years draft class unless they fill the major holes in FA .
I think they'll work with BW and see if he can be coached upm the right way.
And comp for the spot should happen just not with McCoy who needs to go. But any QB brought in or already on the roster needs to be able to push BW ,not just a show-type comp.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:11 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


Flacco is a great example of a team that didn't put their young QB in a bad situation and was patient with him through his natural growth progression. There were times Joe looked hawdawful early in his career for a few SEASONS, not just games.

Now he's hitting all those "didjaseethat?!?" throws.

It si,mply doesn't happen right away.

Weeds may or may not make it, but it won't be bourne out of his rookie season.

So long as we keep knee-jerk rebooting we will blow. Period. Having said that, pick your horses carefullly. Don't mistake a percheron like Frye for a potential race horse. Personal opinion is Weeds isn't that.

Last edited 2/4/2013 12:11 PM by Nasdaq

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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:05 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


We have no choice with Weeden for now but let's not create a bad comparison for hopes sake. Flacco had a 60% completion to start with, he also had a better qb rating. He also had MANY more years to learn on his time clock. Flacco looked far better from the start. We have too many needs to waste a draft pick or bad signing but if they see a better choice that wouldn't make it nessecarily a knee jerk reaction.

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:36 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Feh...

I remember the Browns pasting of the Crows 23-0 game

On the ride home my buds were estatic about the season...

I said, "If Flacco could hit an open recvr the Browns woulda lost by 30" and I was dead nuts on

However long ago that was is how many yrs it would take Weeden to become Flacco-ish and he's too old for that....

Banner likes Vick and Lombardi likes Mallet...

Haslam likes them both....[shakes head in disgust]

<-----There is no joy in this section of Mudville

Do you even Ebola?

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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:03 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 


Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.
That game was in 2004 and the Browns won 20-3.
Lately, they have beaten us 10 straight times starting in 2008 and running through 2012.
In 2007, we beat them twice that year.

Unfortunately, I took my kids and a friend to the game in 2003 when Jamall Lewis ran for 295 yards, setting the single game record at that time.
redface
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:34 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Lumpy wrote: Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.
That game was in 2004 and the Browns won 20-3.
redface

You both have a great imagination, err memory.

Seeing as Joe woulda been red shirting at Pitt in 2004....

Flacco has never lost to the Browns. But if you remeber it that way it was probably an awesome tail gate !

If you rearrange "Flacco" you get Falco with an extra C. There's always a Keanu link if youlook hard enough.

Last edited 2/4/2013 4:35 PM by Nasdaq

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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:57 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



hamster wrote: We have no choice with Weeden for now but let's not create a bad comparison for hopes sake. Flacco had a 60% completion to start with, he also had a better qb rating. He also had MANY more years to learn on his time clock. Flacco looked far better from the start. We have too many needs to waste a draft pick or bad signing but if they see a better choice that wouldn't make it nessecarily a knee jerk reaction.

can't argue about years left. is what it is. And Flacco is more mobile.

But Flaco was decidely "meh" as a young QB.

As a rook he was 60% (better than now FWIW) and a rating of 80 on an 11 win team. WR's were a vet derek mason, a vet fomer pro bowl TE Todd Heap playing a rare 16 games and Mark Clayton, a decent NFL player.
http://www.pro-football-refere.../F/FlacJo00.htm


Weeds with Little, Gordon and Watson was 57% with a 72 rating on a 5 win team.
http://www.pro-football-refere.../W/WeedBr00.htm

So I dunno mang. I'm not seeing Dan Marino compared to Ryan Leaf here as far as rookie seasons... YMMV

Hard to quantify inaccuracy if you can't know for sure when the WR's are where they are supposed to be.

BTW - Joe's comp % was 59% this year, 2% better than Weeds. Now OBVIOUSLY I'm not saying Weeds is close to him, just saying yah gotta be careful with blucnt numbers, s'all.

I saw Joe Flaco for his first 2 - 3 seasons. And I must invoke Otter talking about the Delta Chi House seniors when they were Freshmen. "Let me tell you the story of another loser"...


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/...g_new_students/

Last edited 2/4/2013 5:04 PM by Nasdaq

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Posted: 2/4/2013 5:11 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Nasdaq wrote:
Lumpy wrote: Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.
That game was in 2004 and the Browns won 20-3.
redface

You both have a great imagination, err memory.

Seeing as Joe woulda been red shirting at Pitt in 2004....

Flacco has never lost to the Browns. But if you remeber it that way it was probably an awesome tail gate !

If you rearrange "Flacco" you get Falco with an extra C. There's always a Keanu link if youlook hard enough.
Who said anything about Flacco playing in that game.
You on drugs or something?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 5:18 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Lumpy wrote:
Nasdaq wrote:
Lumpy wrote: Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.
That game was in 2004 and the Browns won 20-3.
redface

You both have a great imagination, err memory.

Seeing as Joe woulda been red shirting at Pitt in 2004....

Flacco has never lost to the Browns. But if you remeber it that way it was probably an awesome tail gate !

If you rearrange "Flacco" you get Falco with an extra C. There's always a Keanu link if youlook hard enough.
Who said anything about Flacco playing in that game.
You on drugs or something?

RIF:

Posted: Today 3:36 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft



Feh...

I remember the Browns pasting of the Crows 23-0 game

On the ride home my buds were estatic about the season...

I said, "If Flacco could hit an open recvr the Browns woulda lost by 30" and I was dead nuts on


Posted: Today 4:03 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft


Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.

Last edited 2/4/2013 5:23 PM by Nasdaq

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Posted: 2/4/2013 5:35 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Heh....Yeah...Boller

Guess that game was longer ago than I thought.... : )

Hard to tell one yr from the other as a browns fan tho and to be fair, its hard to give a crap anymore no matter who the players are

Do you even Ebola?

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  • redright
  • Faithful Best Friend
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:03 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 




---------------------------------------------
--- SoulDawg74 wrote:


Gameface64 wrote: So Haslam says Weeden will have competition next year. Thought this through and I think its a good idea. Maybe Weeden has it, and if he does, competition is not going to hurt him. Maybe he doesn't, in which case, the sooner we get someone else the better. It's not like Weeden lit up the league last year, he flashed, but lots of QBs flash. What he didn't do was play well consistently, or show a steady upward trend of reading defenses and exploiting weaknesses. It might be better coaching, but again, competition should not hurt. Exhibit 1A, Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn.

Speaking of, what are the options for bringing in some competition. Alex Smith or Matt Flynn would be alright with me, we've got the cap, might as well spend some of it if the guaranteed money isn't that big. And if the coaches believe those guys can fit and excel in Cleveland. Put 'em up against Weeden and see what happens.

If they don't want to go that route, I wouldn't blink twice in using our first pick on a QB. Matter of fact, if I were GM, I'd use my first or second pick in every draft on a QB until I found one. It's a roll of the dice, but until you Yahtzee a QB, you're going nowhere anyway. Fill in around that pick with whatever else you can get and free agents.
SD:

I wouldn't pull the trigger on a QB in this draft class before the third round .

Doesn't make sense with so much better defensive talent to reach for 2nd tier QB talent in the first round in panic , bad enough they'll be a frenzy of desperation for those picking high beret of even a Weed type talent who will try and justify such waste with such doomed moves and I pray its not us.

You can upgrade the competition at the spot thru free agency without wasting resources should Weeds pan out .

DA would push Weeden , same big arm and knows the offense ,and wouldn't cost draft picks , allows you to push Weeds  and develop him and leaves room for a third wheel to develop .

Nat Moore would cost less than Smith and also give you a push .

Flynn isn't a fit in this scheme , his arm is only slightly stronger than McCoys , and just had his clock cleaned by a rookie , so thats paise.

Smith has more experience than Weeds , but his arm isn't as good , although he could execute a ball control type scheme , I feel the big cash and essentially giving up on Weeden without leaving him an opening to be the man in his second year ,would be counterproductive .

Use these methods and leave your resources available to shop for QB talent via the draft in 2014 if Weeds doesn't respond.

Too soon to pitch him , and Marylynn Monroe ain't in this class, that you could draft her and kick him to the curb.

$.02


SoulDawg

---------------------------------------------

Like the concept. Line up a staff of big armed down field Q B s. If that's what Chud and Norv want in a Q B then they should all fit. Get Weeds, Anderson, Moore, and Mallic , or such as you may, and develop your offens. All on the same page . Get what you can for Colt and Lewis. No reason to have differing styles .
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  • redright
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:19 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 




---------------------------------------------
--- Nasdaq wrote:


hamster wrote: We have no choice with Weeden for now but let's not create a bad comparison for hopes sake. Flacco had a 60% completion to start with, he also had a better qb rating. He also had MANY more years to learn on his time clock. Flacco looked far better from the start. We have too many needs to waste a draft pick or bad signing but if they see a better choice that wouldn't make it nessecarily a knee jerk reaction.

can't argue about years left. is what it is. And Flacco is more mobile.

But Flaco was decidely "meh" as a young QB.

As a rook he was 60% (better than now FWIW) and a rating of 80 on an 11 win team. WR's were a vet derek mason, a vet fomer pro bowl TE Todd Heap playing a rare 16 games and Mark Clayton, a decent NFL player.
www.pro-football-refere.../F/FlacJo00.htm


Weeds with Little, Gordon and Watson was 57% with a 72 rating on a 5 win team.
www.pro-football-refere.../W/WeedBr00.htm

So I dunno mang. I'm not seeing Dan Marino compared to Ryan Leaf here as far as rookie seasons... YMMV

Hard to quantify inaccuracy if you can't know for sure when the WR's are where they are supposed to be.

BTW - Joe's comp % was 59% this year, 2% better than Weeds. Now OBVIOUSLY I'm not saying Weeds is close to him, just saying yah gotta be careful with blucnt numbers, s'all.

I saw Joe Flaco for his first 2 - 3 seasons. And I must invoke Otter talking about the Delta Chi House seniors when they were Freshmen. "Let me tell you the story of another loser"...


www.metacafe.com/watch/...g_new_students/

---------------------------------------------
LOL. Do I remember how little love Flacco got!!! Even this tear many a Blt caller doubted he could ever win the big game. Many wanted an upgrade. Now that he jogs on Chesepeake, he can write his own ticket.


Even Hoover doesn't think we have a chance to get him . :-)
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:27 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft 



Nasdaq wrote:
Lumpy wrote:
Nasdaq wrote:
Lumpy wrote: Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.
That game was in 2004 and the Browns won 20-3.
redface

You both have a great imagination, err memory.

Seeing as Joe woulda been red shirting at Pitt in 2004....

Flacco has never lost to the Browns. But if you remeber it that way it was probably an awesome tail gate !

If you rearrange "Flacco" you get Falco with an extra C. There's always a Keanu link if youlook hard enough.
Who said anything about Flacco playing in that game.
You on drugs or something?

RIF:

Posted: Today 3:36 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft



Feh...

I remember the Browns pasting of the Crows 23-0 game

On the ride home my buds were estatic about the season...

I said, "If Flacco could hit an open recvr the Browns woulda lost by 30" and I was dead nuts on


Posted: Today 4:03 PM

Re: Weeden, QBs and the draft


Audie,
I remember watching that game on tv.
Oops....well at least it was the other guy.
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