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Re: Horton: straight shooter or loose cannon?

Posted: 2/1/2013 9:51 AM

Re: Horton: straight shooter or loose cannon? 



Gary Reents wrote:
No. I think Belichick made those calls, not Lombardi.

What Lombardi did when he was here last time was undercut Accorsi and assist in getting him out of Cleveland. That led to Belichick having more say in the drafts than was good for him and the Browns.

My criticism of Lombardi has not been about his picks, its been about his character. His toxic character that negatively affected this organization through subterfuge and dishonesty. 

Belichick made those picks. Lombardi set the table, but Belichick dished.
That's fair and it's the most valid reason to dislike Lombardi.  The reason underplayed the most in the national media and overplayed here in Cleveland.  It's 20 years ago.  Over time peeps do tend to recognize when their attitude and disposition as a young gun tended to cost them more than it helped them.   Folks who have known Lombardi for the past 10 years instead of the previous tend speak of him like he's a completely different person.

Proof's in the pudding.

It is worth noting that his questionable methods were used in a power struggle in Cleveland.  While there are questions about where the power is really at in this organization to people looking in from the outside I do not believe there is any doubt inside about where the power lies.  So I'm not sure that a discussion of his tactics and general slimeyness matter much in today's context.

When you get past Lombardi's track record in the midst of those stupid FO internal games the teams he's represented have done pretty well even if it hasn't been through draft.  IMHO his record at evaluating pro-players over college players is better than anyone the Browns have had on staff since the return.
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  • redright
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:02 AM

Re: Horton: straight shooter or loose cannon? 



0tter wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
No. I think Belichick made those calls, not Lombardi.

What Lombardi did when he was here last time was undercut Accorsi and assist in getting him out of Cleveland. That led to Belichick having more say in the drafts than was good for him and the Browns.

My criticism of Lombardi has not been about his picks, its been about his character. His toxic character that negatively affected this organization through subterfuge and dishonesty. 

Belichick made those picks. Lombardi set the table, but Belichick dished.
That's fair and it's the most valid reason to dislike Lombardi.  The reason underplayed the most in the national media and overplayed here in Cleveland.  It's 20 years ago.  Over time peeps do tend to recognize when their attitude and disposition as a young gun tended to cost them more than it helped them.   Folks who have known Lombardi for the past 10 years instead of the previous tend speak of him like he's a completely different person.

Proof's in the pudding.

It is worth noting that his questionable methods were used in a power struggle in Cleveland.  While there are questions about where the power is really at in this organization to people looking in from the outside I do not believe there is any doubt inside about where the power lies.  So I'm not sure that a discussion of his tactics and general slimeyness matter much in today's context.

When you get past Lombardi's track record in the midst of those stupid FO internal games the teams he's represented have done pretty well even if it hasn't been through draft.  IMHO his record at evaluating pro-players over college players is better than anyone the Browns have had on staff since the return.
Chud has close friends.  He should keep Lombardi closer.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:53 PM

Re: Horton: straight shooter or loose cannon? 



0tter wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
No. I think Belichick made those calls, not Lombardi.

What Lombardi did when he was here last time was undercut Accorsi and assist in getting him out of Cleveland. That led to Belichick having more say in the drafts than was good for him and the Browns.

My criticism of Lombardi has not been about his picks, its been about his character. His toxic character that negatively affected this organization through subterfuge and dishonesty. 

Belichick made those picks. Lombardi set the table, but Belichick dished.
That's fair and it's the most valid reason to dislike Lombardi.  The reason underplayed the most in the national media and overplayed here in Cleveland.  It's 20 years ago.  Over time peeps do tend to recognize when their attitude and disposition as a young gun tended to cost them more than it helped them.   Folks who have known Lombardi for the past 10 years instead of the previous tend speak of him like he's a completely different person.

Proof's in the pudding.

It is worth noting that his questionable methods were used in a power struggle in Cleveland.  While there are questions about where the power is really at in this organization to people looking in from the outside I do not believe there is any doubt inside about where the power lies.  So I'm not sure that a discussion of his tactics and general slimeyness matter much in today's context.

When you get past Lombardi's track record in the midst of those stupid FO internal games the teams he's represented have done pretty well even if it hasn't been through draft.  IMHO his record at evaluating pro-players over college players is better than anyone the Browns have had on staff since the return.
Participating in a charade with Banner that pretended he wasn't coming to Cleveland for the last 4 months while jacking with people who thought they were really interviewing for a position shouldn't give anyone confidence that Lombardi has changed.

And an organization that lets a man like Jauron find out in the press that he's been fired isn't one I would consider honorable or particularly ethical. There are right ways to do things and wrong ways to do thing. An organization that begins by lying to the fans over things that require no lies and treats people well only if they are useful is just the type of environment Lombardi wallowed about in while here in the 90s. I shouldn't say wallow, I should say helped make the mud.

Its true that pricks can win...a lot.  We can hope for that.
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