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Re: Chip Kelly

  • redright
  • Faithful Best Friend
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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:43 PM

Re: Chip Kelly 



Gary Reents wrote:
DougInParma wrote:
Gary Reents wrote: 

When the Browns were out there to get Kelly, the Eagles were too. Kelly didn't really want to leave Oregon, and Lurie did his due dilligence, but he ended up with him.
Mike Nolan, Brian Billick, and Brian Kelly are 'due diligence?' Kelly didn't end up with the Eagles. The Eagles ended up with Kelly because the alternative was starting the post-Banner/Reid era with someone even less lukewarm than Rob Chudzinski.

Yes, Haslam 'didn't get his man'. Haslam's man knew what he wanted and was willing to wait until there was a franchise desperate enough to give it to him. We'll just have to wait and see if that's Haslam's anchor or the bullet he dodged.
The Browns dodged a bullet. Banner is the anchor. 

I didn't want Kelly. Glad he didn't come. Besides the point. This isn't about who we wanted or didn't want. Its about who Haslam wanted and didn't get. He whiffed on all of his desired guys.

I'm still trying to get people to have a realistic view of Haslam. The initial giggling love affair had him as some unstoppable winning force. He's just a guy. He has yet to show he's any better than any other owner.

And the reports about Banner while here match the reports of him at Philly. He is who he is and there's a fair to middlin chance he's a problem.
Gary, You miss the obvious. Haslam wanted Kelly, but at what price. Kelly wanted more control and more input than Haslam was willing to give. Jim changed his mind. Jim walked away,. good for Jim. good for the Browns.

I was never on the Kelly bandwagon. Glad we didn't get him. Content with Chud. Happy Lurie and the Eagles have the Kelly problem.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 8:37 PM

Re: Chip Kelly 


Yer sooooo right too Red.  Haslam said, Haslam saidblah2.  He said "The winner defeats all obstacles". So how does that now mean, 'Do whatever, even if you feel it becomes a bad deal or to the detriment of the club'?  How about the dozen or more other generic statements about wanting to do whatever it takes to win?   Should we hold all those words literally?  All he did was assure his fans that he is determined to bring a winner.  He would do what it takes "EVEN" IF IT TAKES GOING ANOTHER ROUTE WHEN THE ORIGINAL COMES TO A STOP.  Not that he would be stupid or panick when attempting it.  Unlike Holmgren when reaching for TR to quickly and giving up a pick, picking or Weeden to high.   How about Butch taking Winslow or Randy emotionally falling in love over and over giving away the house to get his man.  They didn't let obstacles stop them right?pirate

Kelly was the first choice but JUST as you said Red, "AT what price"?  Both in money and power.  Listening to the NFL network and ESPN all afternoon.  They were laughing that two days ago Kelly was in a recruit's home promising him he would be the coach at Oregon.

They talked about more MONEY and POWER is what the Eagles came back with.  Something they had no intention in giving at first nor SHOULD they have.  That's evident in the fact he left.  Haslam played it right on.  He targeted whom he wanted but according his value and stayed pat.  He didn't panic, overpay or overindulgence with power like ole Randy.   He also STRESSED that Kelly wasn't sure he even wanted to leave the college ranks (which proved true) and that too was a deal breaker.  They wanted someone who wanted them back.  Lane is saying how Holmgen buried himself when flirting with the Cowboys before the game last season with Haslam.  Haslam values loyalty and commitment.  Kelly wasn't willing to give it.  Also, nobody knows how high he was rated above all the others they looked at. Kelly might have been the first choice but hardly the only one. Totally at ease with how it all shook out.  Might it fail? Sure but the approach was solid in all areas so far.

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

Last edited 1/16/2013 11:19 PM by hamster

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Posted: 1/17/2013 6:49 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 



redright wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
DougInParma wrote:
Gary Reents wrote: 

When the Browns were out there to get Kelly, the Eagles were too. Kelly didn't really want to leave Oregon, and Lurie did his due dilligence, but he ended up with him.
Mike Nolan, Brian Billick, and Brian Kelly are 'due diligence?' Kelly didn't end up with the Eagles. The Eagles ended up with Kelly because the alternative was starting the post-Banner/Reid era with someone even less lukewarm than Rob Chudzinski.

Yes, Haslam 'didn't get his man'. Haslam's man knew what he wanted and was willing to wait until there was a franchise desperate enough to give it to him. We'll just have to wait and see if that's Haslam's anchor or the bullet he dodged.
The Browns dodged a bullet. Banner is the anchor. 

I didn't want Kelly. Glad he didn't come. Besides the point. This isn't about who we wanted or didn't want. Its about who Haslam wanted and didn't get. He whiffed on all of his desired guys.

I'm still trying to get people to have a realistic view of Haslam. The initial giggling love affair had him as some unstoppable winning force. He's just a guy. He has yet to show he's any better than any other owner.

And the reports about Banner while here match the reports of him at Philly. He is who he is and there's a fair to middlin chance he's a problem.
Gary, You miss the obvious. Haslam wanted Kelly, but at what price. Kelly wanted more control and more input than Haslam was willing to give. Jim changed his mind. Jim walked away,. good for Jim. good for the Browns.

I was never on the Kelly bandwagon. Glad we didn't get him. Content with Chud. Happy Lurie and the Eagles have the Kelly problem.
You ignore information. The Browns left pissed at Kelly. They felt spurned and moved on.

The other thing wrong with your take is you need to substitute the name Banner for Haslam whenever you discuss "control."
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Posted: 1/17/2013 8:09 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 


HAM:

Haslam played it right on.  He targeted whom he wanted but according his value and stayed pat.  He didn't panic, overpay or overindulgence with power like ole Randy.

AA:

Sorrry, just had flashback to nine months ago with Holmgren and RGIII.
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  • redright
  • Faithful Best Friend
  • 12980 posts this site

Posted: 1/17/2013 9:21 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 



Gary Reents wrote:
redright wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
DougInParma wrote:
Gary Reents wrote: 

When the Browns were out there to get Kelly, the Eagles were too. Kelly didn't really want to leave Oregon, and Lurie did his due dilligence, but he ended up with him.
Mike Nolan, Brian Billick, and Brian Kelly are 'due diligence?' Kelly didn't end up with the Eagles. The Eagles ended up with Kelly because the alternative was starting the post-Banner/Reid era with someone even less lukewarm than Rob Chudzinski.

Yes, Haslam 'didn't get his man'. Haslam's man knew what he wanted and was willing to wait until there was a franchise desperate enough to give it to him. We'll just have to wait and see if that's Haslam's anchor or the bullet he dodged.
The Browns dodged a bullet. Banner is the anchor. 

I didn't want Kelly. Glad he didn't come. Besides the point. This isn't about who we wanted or didn't want. Its about who Haslam wanted and didn't get. He whiffed on all of his desired guys.

I'm still trying to get people to have a realistic view of Haslam. The initial giggling love affair had him as some unstoppable winning force. He's just a guy. He has yet to show he's any better than any other owner.

And the reports about Banner while here match the reports of him at Philly. He is who he is and there's a fair to middlin chance he's a problem.
Gary, You miss the obvious. Haslam wanted Kelly, but at what price. Kelly wanted more control and more input than Haslam was willing to give. Jim changed his mind. Jim walked away,. good for Jim. good for the Browns.

I was never on the Kelly bandwagon. Glad we didn't get him. Content with Chud. Happy Lurie and the Eagles have the Kelly problem.
You ignore information. The Browns left pissed at Kelly. They felt spurned and moved on.

The other thing wrong with your take is you need to substitute the name Banner for Haslam whenever you discuss "control."
Getting it down to where the goats can get it.

When Jesse Jackson began his first campaign, he toured the Delta and Southern regions of Alabama, speaking in his pseudo intelligencia manner. No one he was talking about or to...share cropper education...none had a clue of what he was saying. Governor Wallace of Alabama took Jesse under his wing and told him to get his speech down and understandable by his audience...get it down to where the goats can get it.

Getting it down to where Gary can get it...formidable but I'll try.

Jimmy and Joe go to the strip club to see this renown beauty. they see her as desirable and want her. She is talented and gorgeous. They have a few 100 dollar faux champagne bottles of wine with her. She is gorgeous, but in a moment of lucidity...they both realize...they ain't bringing her back home to meet mother.

It is a puzzlement...a real mystery Gary.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 9:27 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 



redright wrote:
Getting it down to where Gary can get it...formidable but I'll try.

Jimmy and Joe go to the strip club to see this renown beauty. they see her as desirable and want her. She is talented and gorgeous. They have a few 100 dollar faux champagne bottles of wine with her. She is gorgeous, but in a moment of lucidity...they both realize...they ain't bringing her back home to meet mother.

It is a puzzlement...a real mystery Gary.
And then the Eagles, fresh off of coming out empty-handed from the local anime convention, stride right up flashing a platinum card, a wad of benjamins, and the keys to grandma's condo in Coral Gables.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 10:22 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 



redright wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
redright wrote:
Gary Reents wrote:
DougInParma wrote:
Gary Reents wrote: 

When the Browns were out there to get Kelly, the Eagles were too. Kelly didn't really want to leave Oregon, and Lurie did his due dilligence, but he ended up with him.
Mike Nolan, Brian Billick, and Brian Kelly are 'due diligence?' Kelly didn't end up with the Eagles. The Eagles ended up with Kelly because the alternative was starting the post-Banner/Reid era with someone even less lukewarm than Rob Chudzinski.

Yes, Haslam 'didn't get his man'. Haslam's man knew what he wanted and was willing to wait until there was a franchise desperate enough to give it to him. We'll just have to wait and see if that's Haslam's anchor or the bullet he dodged.
The Browns dodged a bullet. Banner is the anchor. 

I didn't want Kelly. Glad he didn't come. Besides the point. This isn't about who we wanted or didn't want. Its about who Haslam wanted and didn't get. He whiffed on all of his desired guys.

I'm still trying to get people to have a realistic view of Haslam. The initial giggling love affair had him as some unstoppable winning force. He's just a guy. He has yet to show he's any better than any other owner.

And the reports about Banner while here match the reports of him at Philly. He is who he is and there's a fair to middlin chance he's a problem.
Gary, You miss the obvious. Haslam wanted Kelly, but at what price. Kelly wanted more control and more input than Haslam was willing to give. Jim changed his mind. Jim walked away,. good for Jim. good for the Browns.

I was never on the Kelly bandwagon. Glad we didn't get him. Content with Chud. Happy Lurie and the Eagles have the Kelly problem.
You ignore information. The Browns left pissed at Kelly. They felt spurned and moved on.

The other thing wrong with your take is you need to substitute the name Banner for Haslam whenever you discuss "control."
Getting it down to where the goats can get it.

When Jesse Jackson began his first campaign, he toured the Delta and Southern regions of Alabama, speaking in his pseudo intelligencia manner. No one he was talking about or to...share cropper education...none had a clue of what he was saying. Governor Wallace of Alabama took Jesse under his wing and told him to get his speech down and understandable by his audience...get it down to where the goats can get it.

Getting it down to where Gary can get it...formidable but I'll try.

Jimmy and Joe go to the strip club to see this renown beauty. they see her as desirable and want her. She is talented and gorgeous. They have a few 100 dollar faux champagne bottles of wine with her. She is gorgeous, but in a moment of lucidity...they both realize...they ain't bringing her back home to meet mother.

It is a puzzlement...a real mystery Gary.
You left out the part where the renowned beauty looks over at them, sees the handsome young and wealthy prince standing next to the grim reaper. She screams and runs away telling them she needs to wash her hair but call her the next time they come to town.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 11:06 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 



Aardvark wrote: HAM:

Haslam played it right on.  He targeted whom he wanted but according his value and stayed pat.  He didn't panic, overpay or overindulgence with power like ole Randy.

AA:

Sorrry, just had flashback to nine months ago with Holmgren and RGIII.
So you have anointed Kelly as RG3-ish already?  Hindsight is a beautiful thing I guess.  RG3 could have turn out as Akli Smith or a host of other busts then what?  It's a great one sided pov when you know the outcome.  With Kelly, do we?  Also, do you think with all things equal Kelly would have come to Cleveland over Philly?  If so we should talk bridges.  Eagles have more talent, a young team as well, a far better QB for his scheme and Kelly himself is an east coast guy.  Which organization seems to be a better fit for him?  I guess we could have trumped a team that had to over trumped them selves out of desperation on a gamble, but really?

My mother never breast-fed me. She told me she liked me as a friend - Rodney Dangerfield
 

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Posted: 1/18/2013 8:34 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 




Haslam played it right on.  He targeted whom he wanted but according his value and stayed pat.  He didn't panic, overpay or overindulgence with power like ole Randy.

AA:

Sorry, just had flashback to nine months ago with Holmgren and RGIII.

HAM:

So you have anointed Kelly as RG3-ish already? 

AA:

I was actually comparing Kelly to the St. Louis Rams.

The Browns knew they had to trade up if they wanted Griffin, and they knew they'd be in a dogfight with the Redskins to make a deal.  Despite having two first round picks, and a higher first pick than the Skins, St. Louis chose to make a deal with Washington.

So the Browns were rejected, and many fans rationalized it as Holmgren having set a price for a trade-up and not willing to go beyond it.  That may have been true.  Or St. Louis people knew Washington people and simply preferred to do business with them.  Or the Browns were simply outmaneuvered.  We wouldn't know if it was the last possibility unless Holmgren was truthful in answering the question days later "If you had to do it all over again, would you have sweetened the deal?"

But some fans didn't want to view the possibility of their club being scorned or-- worse-- outplayed-- so cast it as a matter of practicality and fiscal sanity. 

She may have turned me down as my prom date, but I didn't like her THAT much.  *Sniff*

Same with Kelly.  Haslam was in pursuit.  Didn't work out.  Welcome to the NFL, where billionaire owners who always got their way in their chosen vocation don't always get their way here.  Doesn't mean Haslam can't ultimately foster a contending team.  It just means that his wife discovered on the honeymoon that his dick was not made of gold.

HAM:

Also, do you think with all things equal Kelly would have come to Cleveland over Philly? 

AA:

From my first post in this thread:

But really, never underestimate the power of a major market and the very high profile NFC East.

Had Lurie opted out and the Eagles were on the market when Haslam was shopping, it might have been no different. 

Had Banner remained a boat anchor at the Race Street Pier, it may have made not a bit of difference to Kelly.

Didn't want Kelly either, though seeing the Niners demolish the Packers may give me pause.

And agree.  Haslam is just a guy with an anchor. 

But if he was just a guy in Philadelphia, even with an anchor, he may have gotten his wish.

It can be more than just the personalities involved.

HAM:

Eagles have more talent, a young team as well, a far better QB for his scheme and Kelly himself is an east coast guy. 

AA:

Well, east coast as in New Hampshire, which has about as much affinity with Philadelphia as it does Miami.  Or Rio de Janeiro.

Sure, Weeden could not be an attraction for Kelly, though I'm thinking he doesn't view Vick as quite the ideal cog as some might think.  Lots of factors may have entered into Banks's preference.  Lurie has been around a long time and maybe knows how to deal with rejection better than the rookie owner who's used to getting his way in his other life. 

I just think Gary plays the Haslam Failed card with a heavy hand just to disabuse the groupies.  You remember the first 6 months of Butch.  Jeezus, his **** not only did NOT stink, it smelled like a country lane after a fresh shower.  Der Butchum left no stone unturned.  Even the most minor of transactions was regarded as brushstrokes from the Master Impressionist. 

So here comes this new owner who looks like he could kick every other owner's ass, the antithesis of the foppish diletante who preceded him.  And he talks the talk about winning and involvement and obstacles be damned.  Of course that all sounds so heartening to fans, so some then see his every move as a good one. 

So what was Haslam's first significant move?  Hiring Banner.

His second?  Going hot and heavy for Chip Kelly. 

And I think more people nine months ago thought RGIII would be a successful NFL QB
than those now believing Chip Kelly will be a successful NFL HC.


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Posted: 1/18/2013 10:52 AM

Re: Chip Kelly 


I just think Gary plays the Haslam Failed card with a heavy hand just to disabuse the groupies.    

And here comes Reents in 3, 2, 1.......
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