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He likes Green

Posted: 1/16/2013 5:27 PM

He likes Green 


Kelly just likes green.

The fashion as well as the bucks.

And now brace yourselves as the Eagles unis enter the 21st century with 27 variations.

But really, never underestimate the power of a major market and the very high profile NFC East.

Had Lurie opted out and the Eagles were on the market when Haslam was shopping, it might have been no different. 

Had Banner remained a boat anchor at the Race Street Pier, it may have made not a bit of difference to Kelly.

Didn't want Kelly either, though seeing the Niners demolish the Packers may give me pause.

And agree.  Haslam is just a guy with an anchor. 

But if he was just a guy in Philadelphia, even with an anchor, he may have gotten his wish.

It can be more than just the personalities involved.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 5:39 PM

Re: He likes Green 



Aardvark wrote: Kelly just likes green.

The fashion as well as the bucks.

And now brace yourselves as the Eagles unis enter the 21st century with 27 variations.

But really, never underestimate the power of a major market and the very high profile NFC East.

Had Lurie opted out and the Eagles were on the market when Haslam was shopping, it might have been no different. 

Had Banner remained a boat anchor at the Race Street Pier, it may have made not a bit of difference to Kelly.

Didn't want Kelly either, though seeing the Niners demolish the Packers may give me pause.

And agree.  Haslam is just a guy with an anchor. 

But if he was just a guy in Philadelphia, even with an anchor, he may have gotten his wish.

It can be more than just the personalities involved.
The winner defeats all obstacles. Haslam told us so at his PC when they fired Shurmer.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:16 PM

Re: He likes Green 


Listen, I'm going to be upfront here. I've been drinking Dogfish since about 4:00.

With that out of the way, I'll get to my brilliant take.

I have a new respect for Haslam that I didn't have before this Kelly hire. Since we're all dropping our speculation, here's mine. Kelly was Haslams's "guy". Hands down. Haslam had a plan for how much he was willing to give within his business plan to get Kelly. This offer was offered to Kelly and there was some sort of verbal with regard to the proposal. Once Kelly pulled a Kelly and went all emo, Haslam pulled the offer and left town. Without his "guy". On purpose.

I think Haslam could have continued to go after Kelly and finally landed  his "guy" yet he chose not to. He offered what he was willing to offer within the business plan. Kelly is Kelly. Haslam moved on. The Eagles caved.

Battling through process since 99'

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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:25 PM

Re: He likes Green 


GR:

The winner defeats all obstacles. Haslam told us so at his PC when they fired Shurmer.

AA:

Hey, you'll get no argument from me.  Owners have hubris out the ying-yang, and it doesn't help when fawning honeymooner fans have a collective tongue up his bung.

It may have been Jimmy's first time taken down a notch in the NFL, and it sure won't be his last.  I get it.

But timing is everything, especially when teams put out their For Sale signs when a Captain of Industry is looking for his ultimate new yacht.

Hey, if the Eagles and Browns both went on the block at the same time, ya think Jimmy would have looked at Cleveland twice?  Only if he was rebuffed in his effort to land in Philly.

But Cleveland was available, so Jimmy went with it and was determined to sprinkle it with his unique brand of entrepreneurial fairy dust.

And what happened to all those blue collar traditionalists who loved the fact that it was CLEVELAND BROWNS Stadium, and not just another [Insert your corporate name here] Field?   Turns out the effete snob kept it real, and Jimmy Slim Jim went for the quick bucks, even if it amounted to a civic joke. 

What stadium is named after a company that provides a basic service to buildings....

... just not the one that took its name?
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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:07 PM

Re: He likes Green 


He may have just liked Nick Foles and Mike Vick better than Brandon Weeden. Or the gorgeous Philly weather.

Unless you're Luca Brasi, you can't make anyone sign a contract they don't want to sign. Gary's take that Haslam ain't the salesman some thought he was, well, yeah, all right. Maybe Chip Kelly wasn't the customer we thought he was either. Some people want the competing quote, they don't really want to do business.

Really, he's a truck stop billionaire from Tennessee. All kinds of people in this world can resist that pitch. I may love Cleveland but it's not the prettiest city in the country.

My expectation for Haslam is that he'll be proactive in his efforts and have a better feel for the fanbase than Holmgren. He'll be more hands on than Randy. That's no guarantee of success, but there is no such thing anyway. But imo, its an improvement in style if nothing else.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:28 PM

Re: He likes Green 



MHill wrote: Listen, I'm going to be upfront here. I've been drinking Dogfish since about 4:00.

With that out of the way, I'll get to my brilliant take.

I have a new respect for Haslam that I didn't have before this Kelly hire. Since we're all dropping our speculation, here's mine. Kelly was Haslams's "guy". Hands down. Haslam had a plan for how much he was willing to give within his business plan to get Kelly. This offer was offered to Kelly and there was some sort of verbal with regard to the proposal. Once Kelly pulled a Kelly and went all emo, Haslam pulled the offer and left town. Without his "guy". On purpose.

I think Haslam could have continued to go after Kelly and finally landed  his "guy" yet he chose not to. He offered what he was willing to offer within the business plan. Kelly is Kelly. Haslam moved on. The Eagles caved.
You have it partly right. Once Kelly began to show that he was considering not coming out and/or other offers, Haslam lost a lot of interest. You can, if you choose, to believe Haslam saw his instability and decided he needed to walk. If Kelly succeeds Haslam was childish. If Kelly fails, Haslam was briliiant after his initial stupidity of putting Kelly at the top of his list without ever having met him or interviewed him. Maybe at the suggestion of Lombardi...huh?

What I'm basically saying is you have to have talked yourself into a deluded state fueled by desperate desire to decide Haslam is the new Carnegie of the NFL. From that standpoint the only conclusion you can reach once Kelly wasn't hired was that it was some basic flaw in Kelly and not Haslam or Banner.

I'm arguing for a "Let's shut up and watch." because assuming Haslam is a winner or loser is stupid. The logical starting point is he's a rookie NFL owner and he may or may not **** this up.

After watching to this point, I would say you have to really go a long way to believe that Lurie "settled" for the guy both he and Haslam broke speed records to go talk to while Haslam showed great savvy and skill landing the prize catch of Chudzinski. A guy not mentioned for days after the search began.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 6:16 AM

Re: He likes Green 



Gameface64 wrote: He may have just liked Nick Foles and Mike Vick better than Brandon Weeden. Or the gorgeous Philly weather.

Unless you're Luca Brasi, you can't make anyone sign a contract they don't want to sign. Gary's take that Haslam ain't the salesman some thought he was, well, yeah, all right. Maybe Chip Kelly wasn't the customer we thought he was either. Some people want the competing quote, they don't really want to do business.

Really, he's a truck stop billionaire from Tennessee. All kinds of people in this world can resist that pitch. I may love Cleveland but it's not the prettiest city in the country.

My expectation for Haslam is that he'll be proactive in his efforts and have a better feel for the fanbase than Holmgren. He'll be more hands on than Randy. That's no guarantee of success, but there is no such thing anyway. But imo, its an improvement in style if nothing else.
He is not more proactive than Randy was when Randy first became owner. He's doing exactly what Randy did when he first became owner. He went and talked to various owners of winning franchises, he hired a business guy to be his President instead of a football guy, and he was unable to get some high profile names for some of his open positions.

In addition, he's renaming the stadium for money and he's going to change the uniforms......long thought to be the third rail for Browns fans. So much for getting a feel for the fanbase.

You're almost there. You weren't all atwitter with fanciful notions of Haslam being God's Gift to NFL Ownership, but you're still not seeing clearly yet.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 6:23 AM

Re: He likes Green 


Philly wasn't in dilligent pursuit of Kelly. They kept bringing in guys to interview and might of hired one in the time Kelly was cutting himself and listening to his old Cure records.

Luck would have it (bad luck, I would think) when Kelly did a 360 and indeed wanted to join the NFL the Eagles job was still free and ours wasn't. He calls the Eagles up and grovels. The Eagles are desparate since their coaching search hasn't exactly been going that great. Both sides shake hands ,red faced ,and shamed. Go Eagles.

We asked Kelly to the prom, he said he wasn't going.
Philly asked Kelly to the prom, he said he wasn't going.

Then  after we got ourselves a real date, Kelly changes his mind and wants to go to the prom afterall. Too bad, so sad for you you Chip. Call that tramp Philly up, she'll take anyone.

Wake me up when we are 10 and 6...

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Posted: 1/17/2013 6:40 AM

Re: He likes Green 



mistero wrote: Philly wasn't in dilligent pursuit of Kelly. They kept bringing in guys to interview and might of hired one in the time Kelly was cutting himself and listening to his old Cure records.

Luck would have it (bad luck, I would think) when Kelly did a 360 and indeed wanted to join the NFL the Eagles job was still free and ours wasn't. He calls the Eagles up and grovels. The Eagles are desparate since their coaching search hasn't exactly been going that great. Both sides shake hands ,red faced ,and shamed. Go Eagles.

We asked Kelly to the prom, he said he wasn't going.
Philly asked Kelly to the prom, he said he wasn't going.

Then  after we got ourselves a real date, Kelly changes his mind and wants to go to the prom afterall. Too bad, so sad for you you Chip. Call that tramp Philly up, she'll take anyone.
There always reasons why people fail in their endeavors. It doesn't change the fact that they failed.

I'm told only the record matters, not intent. Haslam went head to head with Philly for Kelly. He went to Philly. Haslam 0, Other NFL owner 1

Maybe Chud will be the next great one, the guy that lifts the mantle from Belichick. Lord knows, I hope so. Everyone on this forum hopes so. But this is a discussion forum so as part of a discussion...you're starting with the idea that Haslam is a good owner and then fitting the stories with that as the necessary foundation.

Here's what we know. Browns screamed out to Kelly first and foremost. They wined him and dined him. We had reports of imminent success. Then Philly showed up. Kelly decided to stay at Oregon.

Now, he's with Philly.

So, Kelly was not staying at Oregon all along. Even if that WAS his real mindset at the beginning it just means Lurie talked him out of it. Haslam couldn't.

This looks  all the world like what Carmen did when Billick didn't fall down in awe and wonder at the chance to be the headcoach of an expansion team run by he, himself the great and wonderul Carmen Policy. Carmen grabbed someone he could control and we were told how Palmer BLEW THEM AWAY with his interview. We ended up with Palmer. Who had about the same resume as Chudinski...by the way.

Doesn't mean it ends the same way. But it is what it is.

Last edited 1/17/2013 6:42 AM by Gary Reents

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Posted: 1/17/2013 7:03 AM

Re: He likes Green 



Gary Reents wrote:
mistero wrote: Philly wasn't in dilligent pursuit of Kelly. They kept bringing in guys to interview and might of hired one in the time Kelly was cutting himself and listening to his old Cure records.

Luck would have it (bad luck, I would think) when Kelly did a 360 and indeed wanted to join the NFL the Eagles job was still free and ours wasn't. He calls the Eagles up and grovels. The Eagles are desparate since their coaching search hasn't exactly been going that great. Both sides shake hands ,red faced ,and shamed. Go Eagles.

We asked Kelly to the prom, he said he wasn't going.
Philly asked Kelly to the prom, he said he wasn't going.

Then  after we got ourselves a real date, Kelly changes his mind and wants to go to the prom afterall. Too bad, so sad for you you Chip. Call that tramp Philly up, she'll take anyone.
There always reasons why people fail in their endeavors. It doesn't change the fact that they failed.

I'm told only the record matters, not intent. Haslam went head to head with Philly for Kelly. He went to Philly. Haslam 0, Other NFL owner 1

Maybe Chud will be the next great one, the guy that lifts the mantle from Belichick. Lord knows, I hope so. Everyone on this forum hopes so. But this is a discussion forum so as part of a discussion...you're starting with the idea that Haslam is a good owner and then fitting the stories with that as the necessary foundation.

Here's what we know. Browns screamed out to Kelly first and foremost. They wined him and dined him. We had reports of imminent success. Then Philly showed up. Kelly decided to stay at Oregon.

Now, he's with Philly.

So, Kelly was not staying at Oregon all along. Even if that WAS his real mindset at the beginning it just means Lurie talked him out of it. Haslam couldn't.

This looks  all the world like what Carmen did when Billick didn't fall down in awe and wonder at the chance to be the headcoach of an expansion team run by he, himself the great and wonderul Carmen Policy. Carmen grabbed someone he could control and we were told how Palmer BLEW THEM AWAY with his interview. We ended up with Palmer. Who had about the same resume as Chudinski...by the way.

Doesn't mean it ends the same way. But it is what it is.
SD:

Couple subtle differences ,  Palmers scheme was never a match for the QB they drafted , he wanted to go down town , in a sustem which was not a match for Couches arm , which was more suited to the short passing game in which he excelled at with Kentucky .

Moreover palmer never wanted couch he wanted Akile Smith who had that prerequisite armstrength Palmer desired.

On Chud , he has had success working with QB's who weren't the sharpest tool in the shed like DA, which makes him the perfect teacher for Weeds and his awe shucks personality.

He has taylored offenses to a QB's strengths as evidenced with his record setting rookie year with Cam Newton , and is an advocate of installing a system which dovetails nicely with te attributes of our current signal caller .

So yes the resume's look similar , but the dynamics are a much closer DNA match , with the caveat we're getting a young driven up and comer vs and old defeatist set in his ways intractable fArt.


SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 1/17/2013 7:30 AM

Re: He likes Green 


SD:

Couple subtle differences ,  Palmers scheme was never a match for the QB they drafted , he wanted to go down town , in a sustem which was not a match for Couches arm , which was more suited to the short passing game in which he excelled at with Kentucky .

Moreover palmer never wanted couch he wanted Akile Smith who had that prerequisite armstrength Palmer desired.

On Chud , he has had success working with QB's who weren't the sharpest tool in the shed like DA, which makes him the perfect teacher for Weeds and his awe shucks personality.

He has taylored offenses to a QB's strengths as evidenced with his record setting rookie year with Cam Newton , and is an advocate of installing a system which dovetails nicely with te attributes of our current signal caller .

So yes the resume's look similar , but the dynamics are a much closer DNA match , with the caveat we're getting a young driven up and comer vs and old defeatist set in his ways intractable fArt.

G:
On the one hand we have the Browns panting for Kelly who's system did not fit Weeden...without some tweaking. On the other hand we have Chudinski who did well with a strong armed, weak minded QB with poor accuracy and is unsure of Weeden.

If I assume your analysis is right...I'd have to say we chalk that one up to serendipity and not intent.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 7:50 AM

Re: He likes Green 


Dwight Clark was alot like Haslam then, right?

When Billick wouldn't sign right away he chucked that lack of commitment and we got our guy.

Dwight was therefore a savvy winner.

That's my takeaway from Mysterio's point.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 8:17 AM

Re: He likes Green 



Gary Reents wrote: SD:

Couple subtle differences ,  Palmers scheme was never a match for the QB they drafted , he wanted to go down town , in a sustem which was not a match for Couches arm , which was more suited to the short passing game in which he excelled at with Kentucky .

Moreover palmer never wanted couch he wanted Akile Smith who had that prerequisite armstrength Palmer desired.

On Chud , he has had success working with QB's who weren't the sharpest tool in the shed like DA, which makes him the perfect teacher for Weeds and his awe shucks personality.

He has taylored offenses to a QB's strengths as evidenced with his record setting rookie year with Cam Newton , and is an advocate of installing a system which dovetails nicely with te attributes of our current signal caller .

So yes the resume's look similar , but the dynamics are a much closer DNA match , with the caveat we're getting a young driven up and comer vs and old defeatist set in his ways intractable fArt.

G:
On the one hand we have the Browns panting for Kelly who's system did not fit Weeden...without some tweaking. On the other hand we have Chudinski who did well with a strong armed, weak minded QB with poor accuracy and is unsure of Weeden.

If I assume your analysis is right...I'd have to say we chalk that one up to serendipity and not intent.
SD:

Definitely , the Browns were like natives on Fiji who didn't understand what a gun was and fortune distracted them from looking down the barrel as the trigger got pulled during that exploration .

Getting spurned by Kelley , forcing them to get huffy and back away from that fools gold platter  of Samonela  was the best thing that could have happened, followed by the deal for Whoozybooty collapsing .

Maybe brother Murphy has tired of effin with us , and has finally left some bread crumbs leading from the wilderness, even though  Banner is a foot too short to play Moses.


SoulDawg
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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Posted: 1/17/2013 7:29 PM

Re: He likes Green 



Gary Reents wrote:
Gameface64 wrote: He may have just liked Nick Foles and Mike Vick better than Brandon Weeden. Or the gorgeous Philly weather.

Unless you're Luca Brasi, you can't make anyone sign a contract they don't want to sign. Gary's take that Haslam ain't the salesman some thought he was, well, yeah, all right. Maybe Chip Kelly wasn't the customer we thought he was either. Some people want the competing quote, they don't really want to do business.

Really, he's a truck stop billionaire from Tennessee. All kinds of people in this world can resist that pitch. I may love Cleveland but it's not the prettiest city in the country.

My expectation for Haslam is that he'll be proactive in his efforts and have a better feel for the fanbase than Holmgren. He'll be more hands on than Randy. That's no guarantee of success, but there is no such thing anyway. But imo, its an improvement in style if nothing else.
He is not more proactive than Randy was when Randy first became owner. He's doing exactly what Randy did when he first became owner. He went and talked to various owners of winning franchises, he hired a business guy to be his President instead of a football guy, and he was unable to get some high profile names for some of his open positions.

In addition, he's renaming the stadium for money and he's going to change the uniforms......long thought to be the third rail for Browns fans. So much for getting a feel for the fanbase.

You're almost there. You weren't all atwitter with fanciful notions of Haslam being God's Gift to NFL Ownership, but you're still not seeing clearly yet.
I said he was more proactive than Homgren, didn't mention 1999 Lerner. I could care less about what we call the current Factory of Sad, naming rights is pretty standard stuff and if it helps him recoup some his billion dollar nut, I'm cool with that. Besides, with all the problems that the franchise has had since the return, anybody bitching about naming rights is just a bitch. Uniforms? I'm as old school as old school gets, but if they team starts winning I can handle some new striping or socks. I think a lot of the fanbase will follow if wins start stacking up.

I see that Jimmy's got some blind spots. Like most billionaires, he's driven and a corporate creature, so expect some Browns Incorporated type decisions that rub the wrong way.

What I don't want to do is reverse cause and effect without evidence. We don't know Chip Kelly's mind (and I suspect Chip Kelly doesn't either). Perhaps he simply liked the Philly situation better, and no dog and pony show or blank checks from Haslam was going to change his mind. I won't put that at the Front Office's feet just yet, although I recognize it that it could quite possibly be true.

Keeping an open mind as I see there are no early results yet in what really matters: the performance of the team on the field. Reading front office and management tea leaves is great fun, but in the end, its all about the 'ball.
>>> Decleater <<<
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