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FLACCO

  • redright
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Posted: 1/15/2013 7:25 PM

FLACCO 


Wants to be paid. Wants elite QB money.  Want to be paid as a top 5 quarterback.

Ravens have CAP problems. To Franchise Flacco will cost 15 to 18 mil. A two year will cost the Ravens some 35 mil. And Joe wants money

Flacco, big arm and downfield QB. Thrives in play action down field. Has won more games in 4 season than Drew Brees. Fits our supposed offense to a T.

We have 48+ mil in CAP

Shaub got 90m for 6 years

Ravens will need Joe to give a discount and others to restructure. Insists he wants the money.

Getting Joe is the QB Chud needs and it kills Blt.

There is no QB in the draft and waiting for 2014 means a two year loss of time. Thomas will be in his 8th year before he gets to block for a franchise QB, if we are lucky.

Weeds is a first round Heckert didn't want in the first. That draft pick is gone. Weeds could be a great 6 year back-up. Getting Flacco and Weeden as back-up solves QB for 6 years (on paper anyhow)

If the Pats beat the Ravens and do so convincingly, Flacco is more likely to move on. The Ravens are all in on the SB this year, or at least their fans are. Ray and Suggs and Reed are on their last legs.

The Free Agency of Flacco and the current state of talk adds another dimension to Sunday's game. If Flacco takes the Ravens to the SB, Ozzie has to resign him. If they are beaten and badly, the Ravens are facing a rebuild and not able to spend as much on a QB. Flacco understands the market. If the Ravens won't go 90 mil, a lot of other team will. Without a QB, you don't win. Flacco has been a winner.

There is a lot of talk of Weeden and Andersen and need of a quarterback. Flacco would look better in orange than any other option. It is doable. It kills an AFCN rival. Pitt is in decline. Flacco and Weeden for six years, plus 48 million in CAP money, a top level pick, jump starts us to the playoffs. Has me thinking playoffs in 2013.

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Posted: 1/15/2013 7:30 PM

Re: FLACCO 


Are you saying if Flacco doesn't get it done and get to the SB this season you want him, as our go to guy?  Sorry, no offense but that doesn't make much sense.

Yes as it stands right now Flacco is better than our boy Weeden, and chances are at least decent that Weeden will never be as good as Flacco is now, or at least any better than Flacco.

So if Flacco is proving he isn't an elite, he isn't a guy that can get you there, or win it, why do you want to pay him big money to come here and not get it done here?

IMO this is Flacco's last chance to get er done, otherwise he is just another QB.
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  • redright
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Posted: 1/15/2013 9:08 PM

Re: FLACCO 


I am saying Flacco stats and winnings, his on field performance make him the best QB to come available since Brees. He makes the Browns instant playoff quality. Flacco in the Chud system would be lights out compared to what we have and what we are likely to be in the realm of acquiring. Flacco has the skill set to take us to the playoffs.

Further,

Imo, losing Flacco eliminate the Ravens from the post season. They have and old and injured defense. Without Flacco they then become a re-building team on offense and defense.

I am saying the Steelers have more issues than can be overcome in a draft. They, too, are old and in need of rebuilding. Their held together with baleing wire offensive line is a perrenial problem. Their defense is aging an subject to considerable injuries.

I am saying that the addition of Flacco eliminates the Ravens from consideration as the AFCN winner. I am saying the Steelers have multiple problems and should be beatable. That leaves only the Cincinnati Bengals as competition for the AFCN winner.  Mike Brown won't spend. Lewis is not the greatest HC in the NFCN. The addition of Flacco puts us in the position of improving with our 48mil and the draft to the point of not only becoming relevant but winning the division.

It is a BOLD move, but necessary to win in 2013.
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  • GergDawg
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:33 PM

Re: FLACCO 



This type of thinking is baffling.

So because Flacco hasn't won a Super Bowl in his first 5 years....you don't want him in cleveland?

I guess starting his career with 5 straight playoff wins and 3 AFC championship game appearances isn't good enough for this town.

I would give my left testicle to be in the playoffs the next 5 years with 3 AFC championship losses.

It would feel like the 80's and we could all love Flacco the same way we love Bernie.


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--- donnyunitas wrote:

Are you saying if Flacco doesn't get it done and get to the SB this season you want him, as our go to guy?  Sorry, no offense but that doesn't make much sense.

Yes as it stands right now Flacco is better than our boy Weeden, and chances are at least decent that Weeden will never be as good as Flacco is now, or at least any better than Flacco.

So if Flacco is proving he isn't an elite, he isn't a guy that can get you there, or win it, why do you want to pay him big money to come here and not get it done here?

IMO this is Flacco's last chance to get er done, otherwise he is just another QB.

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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:18 AM

Re: FLACCO 


DU - "otherwise he is just another QB"

No. Going too far with that conclusion.

As RR stated - "Shaub got 90m for 6 years"
Flacco worth at least as much. I don't see Ravens letting him go (especially to intra-division rival) Rebuild is one thing, but we're talking the Fall of Rome w/o Flacco as Raven and Ray gone, and Reed very long in tooth.

I'd love Flacco.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:20 AM

Re: FLACCO 


If you were Ozzy, wouldn't you cut cap from everywhere except Flacco. I would dump all the old defenders. I would fill my roster with a bunch of undrafted guys before I get rid of my QB. Flacco,Rice, Torrey Smith..untouchable. Ngata is a beast but I can find a DT somewhere. You just can't find good QB's, it takes luck and a bunch of first rounders.

I'm not sure what Ozzy is thinking but that's what I would do.

Wake me up when we are 10 and 6...

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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:42 AM

Re: FLACCO 



mistero wrote: If you were Ozzy, wouldn't you cut cap from everywhere except Flacco. I would dump all the old defenders. I would fill my roster with a bunch of undrafted guys before I get rid of my QB. Flacco,Rice, Torrey Smith..untouchable. Ngata is a beast but I can find a DT somewhere. You just can't find good QB's, it takes luck and a bunch of first rounders.

I'm not sure what Ozzy is thinking but that's what I would do.
Ozzy reconstructed his roster before the 2002 season for similar reasons. If I remember right, they were the youngest team in the league that year. Still managed to put out a .500 product. I don't think there is a chance that the Ravens let Flacco get away. Elvis Grbac, yes, go ahead and let him walk. Flacco, no.

Battling through process since 99'

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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:46 AM

Re: FLACCO 



mistero wrote: If you were Ozzy, wouldn't you cut cap from everywhere except Flacco. I would dump all the old defenders. I would fill my roster with a bunch of undrafted guys before I get rid of my QB. Flacco,Rice, Torrey Smith..untouchable. Ngata is a beast but I can find a DT somewhere. You just can't find good QB's, it takes luck and a bunch of first rounders.

I'm not sure what Ozzy is thinking but that's what I would do.
Exactly. They'll be drafting near the bottom of each round this year. Where will they get their next franchise QB if Flacco leaves? They'll free up enough cap room by dumping the old guys - Ray Lewis is already retiring and Reed has maybe one more year left. 

If the Ravens let Flacco go because he's too expensive it will "kill" them whether he lands in Cleveland or somewhere else. 

If they decide he's not worth whatever he's demanding, they can still franchise him for the next two years until they develop somebody else. I just don't see him hitting the street.

If Chud doesn't think Weeden is the guy I can see the Browns going after Alex Smith as a stopgap until they get The Guy. Kind of like when Belichick brought in Vinnie Testaverde after he lost confidence in Bernie.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:50 AM

Re: FLACCO 


From BaltimoreRavens.com, two days ago:

"Ravens brass has been clear that it views Flacco as the organization’s franchise quarterback, and Flacco has said on numerous occasions that he plans to be in Baltimore for many years to come.

The Ravens don’t plan on letting Flacco walk away, and if they aren’t able to reach a long-term deal with him in the offseason, they could also use the one-year franchise tag to make Flacco one of the five highest paid quarterbacks in the league."

By the way, Flacco has throw for 613 yards, 5 TD's, and no interceptions for a 120.0 QB rating in the playoffs this year. 

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  • redright
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Posted: 1/16/2013 7:52 AM

Re: FLACCO 




---------------------------------------------
--- mistero wrote:

If you were Ozzy, wouldn't you cut cap from everywhere except Flacco. I would dump all the old defenders. I would fill my roster with a bunch of undrafted guys before I get rid of my QB. Flacco,Rice, Torrey Smith..untouchable. Ngata is a beast but I can find a DT somewhere. You just can't find good QB's, it takes luck and a bunch of first rounders.

I'm not sure what Ozzy is thinking but that's what I would do.

---------------------------------------------

Good that it is Ozzy's problem. Telling how he handles it. GB ,NY G,INDY, NWE all had this problem. The difference may lie in Raven fans don't like Flacco. They blame the QB for not winning the SB. Silly but a lot of fans enamoured with the defense put all the losses on Joe. He must have been the one who missed the FG in last years AFC championship.

Ozzy knows quality but the team may have held onto high priced guys too long. BB gets rid of high priced players not named Brady every year and Brady does as Bernie did, he gives back money .
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Posted: 1/16/2013 8:07 AM

Re: FLACCO 



+ 1

"Elite" QBs do things like win playoff games down a TD with 30 seconds left as road dogs. The Real Browns paid back the Drive this weekend.

There's NFW Ozzie lets him go, tho.


---------------------------------------------
--- GergDawg wrote:


This type of thinking is baffling.

So because Flacco hasn't won a Super Bowl in his first 5 years....you don't want him in cleveland?

I guess starting his career with 5 straight playoff wins and 3 AFC championship game appearances isn't good enough for this town.

I would give my left testicle to be in the playoffs the next 5 years with 3 AFC championship losses.

It would feel like the 80's and we could all love Flacco the same way we love Bernie.


---------------------------------------------
--- donnyunitas wrote:

Are you saying if Flacco doesn't get it done and get to the SB this season you want him, as our go to guy?  Sorry, no offense but that doesn't make much sense.

Yes as it stands right now Flacco is better than our boy Weeden, and chances are at least decent that Weeden will never be as good as Flacco is now, or at least any better than Flacco.

So if Flacco is proving he isn't an elite, he isn't a guy that can get you there, or win it, why do you want to pay him big money to come here and not get it done here?

IMO this is Flacco's last chance to get er done, otherwise he is just another QB.

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  • redright
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Posted: 1/16/2013 8:11 AM

Re: FLACCO 




---------------------------------------------
--- PROSECUTOR wrote:

From BaltimoreRavens.com, two days ago:

"Ravens brass has been clear that it views Flacco as the organization’s franchise quarterback, and Flacco has said on numerous occasions that he plans to be in Baltimore for many years to come.

The Ravens don’t plan on letting Flacco walk away, and if they aren’t able to reach a long-term deal with him in the offseason, they could also use the one-year franchise tag to make Flacco one of the five highest paid quarterbacks in the league."

By the way, Flacco has throw for 613 yards, 5 TD's, and no interceptions for a 120.0 QB rating in the playoffs this year. 



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Flacco has repeatedly said without top 5 money he is moving. Franchise tag means holdout for the contract. Brees held out and even though the Saints signed him there roster was in Limbo. Some holdouts reach an impasse resulting in trades Uphill climb. Yes but a mess for the Ravens. What happens if there is a100 plus deal on the table and the Ravens can't match?

Interesting

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Posted: 1/16/2013 8:46 AM

Mad Max 


Since I'm not sold on Flacco as being a top 5 qb, I'm not keen on spending that kind of money for him.  And I think Ozzie has felt the same way.

Over the course of the previous two seasons, there was grumbling in Ballmer over Joe F.  No question he had been a productive qb and jump started an offense that was carried for years by the defense.  But it seemed to many that while he was good, he may not have been quite good enough.  And so there was talk (debate) about whether the club should ride it out and maybe hit with him eventually, or make a change because the defensive core wasn't getting any younger.

IMO the club stayed with him because it would have taken too long to find a suitable replacement, and that there was enough surrounding him to be enough to go to the SB.  Flacco also helped himself by outplaying Brady in last year's AFC title game.

Still, if the Ravens was sold on Flacco, they would have crafted an extension for him in the  off season.

I wrote about this last year at this time, along with the Niners trepidation regarding Alex Smith.  The Niners broke through last year with a big season, and many fans thought Alex Smith broke through as well with his best season.

But then he didn't exactly shine in the playoffs, and the Niners blew their cover in the off season by making overtures to Manning.  

When Kaepernik got his opportunity and made the most of it, it wasn't like Harbaugh even hesitated in not following injured veteran protocol.  He went with the hot hand, and SF looks even more formidable now than last year... all because of the change in qb.  Alex Smith seemed to leave nagging doubts.  Tattoo Boy has everybody on board.

Perhaps Ballmer sees a lesson there.  So if the Ravens again lose to the Pats, and if Flacco doesn't really acquit himself, Ozzie may think their window has pretty much closed with Ray gone, Ed & Suggs soon to follow, and it's rebuilding time. 

And they may view a max contract for a qb for whom they haven't had max faith to be mad.  Or at least an unwise expenditure.

IMO Flacco has a somewhat overinflated opinion of himself, and wants the max contract to validate his self-estimation.  If the Ravens are unwilling to give him all that, then he may want to leave, knowing the team may be in rebuilding mode anyway (unless they're operating under some sort of Boston Celtics-like delusion). 

There's no question that Flacco would be the best qb since the return-- the best since Bernie.  It's whether one thinks he's really worth a max contract.  Yes, he's been in the playoffs every year he's played.  But the Ravens were a team that was loaded everywhere but at qb.  Flacco made them a perennial playoff team.  He didn't pull the dog sled.  He wasnt the straw that stirred the drink.  That's what you expect from a max contract.

And if Flacco signs with a team other than the Browns, it kills Baltimore just as dead. 


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Posted: 1/16/2013 9:15 AM

Re: FLACCO 


Its the no-win scenario: If Flacco gets Baltimore to hoisting a Lombardi, NFW they let him go. If Flacco can't carry Baltimore the rest of the way, NFW is he worth spending money on.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 9:37 AM

Re: FLACCO 


Flacco can have a great game and still get outscored by Brady. I wouldn't hold that against him. He's going to have to put up 35+ points against the Patriots , I would guess, in order to win.

Wake me up when we are 10 and 6...

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  • redright
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:25 PM

Re: Mad Max 


Yes That's the way I see it. A bad game Sunday and Flacco is in play.

---------------------------------------------
--- Aardvark wrote:

Since I'm not sold on Flacco as being a top 5 qb, I'm not keen on spending that kind of money for him.  And I think Ozzie has felt the same way.

Over the course of the previous two seasons, there was grumbling in Ballmer over Joe F.  No question he had been a productive qb and jump started an offense that was carried for years by the defense.  But it seemed to many that while he was good, he may not have been quite good enough.  And so there was talk (debate) about whether the club should ride it out and maybe hit with him eventually, or make a change because the defensive core wasn't getting any younger.

IMO the club stayed with him because it would have taken too long to find a suitable replacement, and that there was enough surrounding him to be enough to go to the SB.  Flacco also helped himself by outplaying Brady in last year's AFC title game.

Still, if the Ravens was sold on Flacco, they would have crafted an extension for him in the  off season.

I wrote about this last year at this time, along with the Niners trepidation regarding Alex Smith.  The Niners broke through last year with a big season, and many fans thought Alex Smith broke through as well with his best season.

But then he didn't exactly shine in the playoffs, and the Niners blew their cover in the off season by making overtures to Manning.  

When Kaepernik got his opportunity and made the most of it, it wasn't like Harbaugh even hesitated in not following injured veteran protocol.  He went with the hot hand, and SF looks even more formidable now than last year... all because of the change in qb.  Alex Smith seemed to leave nagging doubts.  Tattoo Boy has everybody on board.

Perhaps Ballmer sees a lesson there.  So if the Ravens again lose to the Pats, and if Flacco doesn't really acquit himself, Ozzie may think their window has pretty much closed with Ray gone, Ed & Suggs soon to follow, and it's rebuilding time. 

And they may view a max contract for a qb for whom they haven't had max faith to be mad.  Or at least an unwise expenditure.

IMO Flacco has a somewhat overinflated opinion of himself, and wants the max contract to validate his self-estimation.  If the Ravens are unwilling to give him all that, then he may want to leave, knowing the team may be in rebuilding mode anyway (unless they're operating under some sort of Boston Celtics-like delusion). 

There's no question that Flacco would be the best qb since the return-- the best since Bernie.  It's whether one thinks he's really worth a max contract.  Yes, he's been in the playoffs every year he's played.  But the Ravens were a team that was loaded everywhere but at qb.  Flacco made them a perennial playoff team.  He didn't pull the dog sled.  He wasnt the straw that stirred the drink.  That's what you expect from a max contract.

And if Flacco signs with a team other than the Browns, it kills Baltimore just as dead. 






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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:49 PM

Re: Mad Max 


AA - "But then he didn't exactly shine in the playoffs"

You're a tough grader. Yeh he got beat, barely, by the eventual SB champs, but his game against NO & Brees....? He played great in that one and that was the first in a while for SF.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:07 PM

Re: Mad Max 


GAD:

You're a tough grader. Yeh he got beat, barely, by the eventual SB champs, but his game against NO & Brees....? He played great in that one and that was the first in a while for SF.

AA:

In the last 5 games of the 2011 regular season, Smith had 2 good games, and four games ranging from tepid to worse.

Then there was New Orleans in the playoffs.  With a 17-0 lead (one great Smith td pass, and another td came off an int that had the offense starting 1st and goal at the 4).
Smith then went on a 10-21 for 82 yard tear that saw the Saints come back to take a 24-23 lead.  Sure, people remember the thrilling heroics and ending.  They just forget what led up to it.

Against the Giants, Smith had two big play td passes to Vernon Davis.  Otherwise he was 10-24 for 95 yards.  And after the second td pass put the Niners up 14-10, their offense then had six drives that produced all of three points.  Half the 6 drives were 3 & outs.

Smith played well, even spectacularly well in spots.  And then he disappeared enough to make the Niners go "Hmmmm...."

Hence the overtures to Manning, and the no turning back once Colin K. showed he was the real deal. 

Maybe they were the tough graders.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:26 PM

Re: FLACCO 



DougInParma wrote: Its the no-win scenario: If Flacco gets Baltimore to hoisting a Lombardi, NFW they let him go. If Flacco can't carry Baltimore the rest of the way, NFW is he worth spending money on.
Exactly.

People can't have it both ways, and say "he's good, way better than what we have" and yet ignore that he can't get it done when it comes to winning a SB let alone the AFC.

Yeah I get it folks, we want to go to the playoffs, but didn't you guys watch Houston v NE.  He's no different than Schaub, and the announcers even commented on the difference by stating how long developing plays in Houston with Schaub as opposed to NE with Brady.

Honestly we might as well stick with Weeden until a true draft prospect comes along instead of over paying Flacco.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 6:50 PM

Re: Mad Max 


I don't think Flacco is a top 5 QB either, but he may earn top 5 money because salary and rank rarely are perfectly aligned. Flacco might be top 5 paid for a year or two, but his salary will certainly be surpassed before long.

I feel strongly that Ozzie retains Flacco no matter how the next game or two play out, unless he throws 5 picks, fumbles twice and moons the crowd at halftime.

Being a SB winning QB isn't usually a switch that gets thrown. QBs develop. QBs are not the only person on the field, and sometimes their offenses (ie the other 10 MFers trying to make plays work) don't do that great.

Out of 32 QBs, most are sitting home. Flacco's been in the playoffs 5 in a row. This isn't easy, and its not easily replaced. You guys think Ozzie is such a good drafter that he can kick Flacco to the curb and pluck a better guy with a low round pick, and that low round pick will be ready to excel right out of the box. Kaepernick is the exception, and after two years, Smith is still on the roster. (Maybe college ball will start churning out Newtons and Griffins and Wilsons and Kaepernicks, and teams will lose patience with guys like Flacco. He's "on the verge", we just don't know if it's on the verge of greatness or on the verge of failure.

He did outplay Brady in last year's playoffs. The pass to Lee Evans was perfect. He put his team in position to tie with a gimme FG. To me, that's a bona fide performance. Yes, during this regular season he was inconsistent. So was the entire team. Pull Ray Rice's stats and you'll see some pretty weak looking performances. Would Ozzie cut him because he fumbled a few times in big games? Or maybe because he's not Ahmad Bradshaw or whomever ran the ball for the last 5 Super Bowl winners.

Is Flacco elite. Not yet, but I sure wouldn't say he can't be. I'll always root for the Ravens to lose, so I'd be happier to see Flacco crash and burn. But if was the Ozzie, there's no way Flacco gets away in the next 3 years. Frontload the contract, and give him another couple of shots at the ring. I think Oz is confident in his drafting ability, but he'll try to keep the window open for a few more years by adding to the defense. He's got a good QB, 2 good RBs, 2 good WRs and 2 good TE's.
>>> Decleater <<<
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