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RE: Attacking D = Reboot

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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:46 PM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


One of the few teams that had true success with the 3-4 has always been the Steelers.

Anyone not named LeBeau running a 3-4 in Cleveland doesn't interest me.  Like that defensive genius, Romeo Crennel.

Every time Tom Brady faces a good 4-3, he has problems.  Real problems.  The 3-4, he eats for lunch.

With the emphasis on QB play that's been around for a while, the only reason to put a 3-4 on the field is to save money so you can spend it on the Offense.  Good 4-3 DEs ain't cheap.

If you can get pressure with the front 4 of a 4-3 Defense, you can drive a QB out of his mind.

And with the success of the 'read-option' QBs this year, look for a lot of copycats.

A 3-4 has no chance against one of them.  None.  A decent 4-3 can contain a scrambling QB much better than can a 3-4.  OLBs in a 3-4 are just too slow, too awkward and not nearly athletic enough to catch a QB like Wilson, Koepernick, Cam Newton or RGIII.

I don't know why the 3-4 hasn't been put on the scrap bin of NFL history.  I don't like it.  Never have.  It's a poor excuse for a 'bend but don't break' defense.

Now, there's also the 'attacking' 3-4 that is essentially a 5-2.  I could live with that.  Sort of. I'd still prefer a 4-3.  More flexible, harder to stop, pressure with the front four is almost impossible to protect against....  Just a better scheme all the way around.

My $.02  noidea
"Reject those voices that tell you to be cynical about government" ~ Some Moron
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Posted: 1/25/2013 6:07 AM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


FREE AGENT/LIKELY OUT
Parker, Juqua DE 6-2 250 
Maiava, Kaluka LB 6-0 229 

 

 


NOSE TACKLE
Taylor, Phillip  6-3 335
Kitchen, Ishmaa'ily  6-1 330
Hughes, John  6-2 320

DEFENSIVE END
Rubin, Ahtyba  6-2 330
Winn, Billy  6-4 295
Rucker, Frostee 6-3 280
Sanford, Brian  6-2 280
Davis, Hall  6-4 270

 

OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Sheard, Jabaal  6-2 255
Gocong, Chris  6-2 263
Carder, Tank  6-2 235
Acho,Emmanuel  6-1 240
English, Auston  6-3 250
Stephens, Emmanuel  6-3 255


INSIDE LINEBACKER
Jackson, D'Qwell  6-0 240
Johnson, James-Michael  6-1 240
Fort, L.J.  6-0 230
Robertson, Craig  6-1 229
Moten, Adrian  6-2 230       



I think you can get 3 new starters, 2 in free agency and 1 in the draft. Who do you want to target for replacement? OLB at pick 6 to replace Sheard or Gocong? A better end to replace Winn? Or just depth?

Wake me up when we are 10 and 6...

Last edited 1/26/2013 2:18 PM by mistero

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Posted: 1/25/2013 9:46 PM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 



bw wrote: One of the few teams that had true success with the 3-4 has always been the Steelers.

Anyone not named LeBeau running a 3-4 in Cleveland doesn't interest me.  Like that defensive genius, Romeo Crennel.

Every time Tom Brady faces a good 4-3, he has problems.  Real problems.  The 3-4, he eats for lunch.

With the emphasis on QB play that's been around for a while, the only reason to put a 3-4 on the field is to save money so you can spend it on the Offense.  Good 4-3 DEs ain't cheap.

If you can get pressure with the front 4 of a 4-3 Defense, you can drive a QB out of his mind.

And with the success of the 'read-option' QBs this year, look for a lot of copycats.

A 3-4 has no chance against one of them.  None.  A decent 4-3 can contain a scrambling QB much better than can a 3-4.  OLBs in a 3-4 are just too slow, too awkward and not nearly athletic enough to catch a QB like Wilson, Koepernick, Cam Newton or RGIII.

I don't know why the 3-4 hasn't been put on the scrap bin of NFL history.  I don't like it.  Never have.  It's a poor excuse for a 'bend but don't break' defense.

Now, there's also the 'attacking' 3-4 that is essentially a 5-2.  I could live with that.  Sort of. I'd still prefer a 4-3.  More flexible, harder to stop, pressure with the front four is almost impossible to protect against....  Just a better scheme all the way around.

My $.02  noidea

That's right!

Signed,

Warren Moon

*Brownies with the 4-3 contained Moon very well.

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Posted: 1/26/2013 12:10 AM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


Mistero,

I thought Parker and Rucker both played well last year. Are they on one-year contracts? Is there no way for them to play DE in an attack 3-4 in rotation. If the Giants made the NASCAR D-line in a 4-3 with speed ends across the entire line, maybe we could have a 3-4 with lighter quicker DEs. Instead of replacing beefy 4-3 DTs with DE's, we could replace beefy 3-4 DE's with quicker guys.

Susceptible to the run, but could be hell at rushing the passer. Maybe Horton would love the run blitz.
>>> Decleater <<<
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  • redright
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Posted: 1/26/2013 8:22 PM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 




---------------------------------------------
--- mistero wrote:

FREE AGENT/LIKELY OUT
Parker, Juqua DE 6-2 250 
Maiava, Kaluka LB 6-0 229 

 

 


NOSE TACKLE
Taylor, Phillip  6-3 335
Kitchen, Ishmaa'ily  6-1 330
Hughes, John  6-2 320



DEFENSIVE END
Rubin, Ahtyba  6-2 330
Winn, Billy  6-4 295
Rucker, Frostee 6-3 280
Sanford, Brian  6-2 280
Davis, Hall  6-4 270

 

OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Sheard, Jabaal  6-2 255
Gocong, Chris  6-2 263
Carder, Tank  6-2 235
Acho,Emmanuel  6-1 240
English, Auston  6-3 250
Stephens, Emmanuel  6-3 255


INSIDE LINEBACKER
Jackson, D'Qwell  6-0 240
Johnson, James-Michael  6-1 240
Fort, L.J.  6-0 230
Robertson, Craig  6-1 229
Moten, Adrian  6-2 230       



I think you can get 3 new starters, 2 in free agency and 1 in the draft. Who do you want to target for replacement? OLB at pick 6 to replace Sheard or Gocong? A better end to replace Winn? Or just depth?



---------------------------------------------
R R

Maiava out as L B may stick special teams

If we are to "mirror" the steelers 34 Worlds Woodley as O L B go 265 and Harrson 245. Sheard fits weight wise. Some of the others may O L B you list may be too light for Horton.
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:22 PM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


Anyway you look at it we are light on lb's. 4-3. 3-4. Wouldn't matter the problem remained the same. We haven't had a decent olb since........he'll I can't remember

Last edited 1/27/2013 12:23 PM by BK Dog

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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:02 AM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


Wev'e got an interesting situation upfront. Rucker is the teams' best run defender-it's the primary reason we signed him.

Winn might be the most athletic of the group and played the "5" at Boise.

Rubin's strength is keeping himself free and getting to the ball-he does that better then any other interior player in the league. As a NT, he wasn't a Casey Hampton style who controls blockers and doesn't give up ground.

Taylor's strength isn't controlling lineman either, it's using his size and athletic ability to disrupt.

Both Rubin and Taylor move well for their size but not as well as Rucker and Winn.
But, after watching how well Rubin and Taylor played together against the Redskins to shut down one of the leagues best running games, a case can be made for each to start.

4 starting caliber DE is a good problem-and two of them can slide over to the nose.

Between our young DTs, I thought Hughes flashed the most impressive run defending ability. I looked at some of his college tape after we drafted him and going by that and how he played his first year, he's the best nose we have.

Kitchen brings up the rear of this group, which is saying something. He looked decent for a practice squad type.
If Winn can become a consistent inside rusher, this is a perfect group.


The LBs are not as lacking as has been made.
By all accounts, Gocong is making a solid recovery and should be in the mix by training camp. Obviously, he and DQ know the 34.
They're likely the favorites to start at LILB & RILB.

JMJ, more familiar with the 34 then the 43 and L.J. Fort back them up.

But the most intriguing guy is Robertson. He showed a lot of promise last season.
Initially, he doesn't look like a good scheme fit but one of his strengths is attacking down hill-shooting gaps and blitzing, which is perfect for Horton's scheme. If he learns to play with ideal leverage and adds some strength, he's a surprise starter inside.

Sheard was viewed as a hybrid end coming out of Pitt because of his size. I think it was a slight surprise that a 43 defensive team drafted him-even more that he starts at LE.
In the 34 at LOLB I think he looks something like Jarret Johnson, Calvin Pace.

Now, that's not exactly following the type that the Steelers/Cardinals use and the preferred type of Horton, but it's fine for the mixed scheme  he proposes to run. We'll see.

Although Maiava was drafted to be a 34 ILB, it's a safe bet he isn't resigned. Parker's not a good fit at OLB even though he was a solid pass rush specialist. Emmanuel Stephens is interesting-he certainly fits more as a hybrid DE/OLB then 43 DE, but he's still a fringe player.

That leaves a great big hole at ROLB and no depth there as well. That's why the first pick in the draft is 99% assured of being a OLB/DE.

I think we'll also sign a FA there for depth but I'm skeptical we'll go after a big money guy like Anthony Spencer-if he'll even end up available. His teammate Vic Butler, though, could be in our sights.


If we do spend some cash in FA, I think it'll be in the secondary. As the op pointed out, you can't run a great attacking D without great man coverage.
The top guy available imo, likely won't be allowed to hit the open market. Even though the Steelers have some cap issues, they'd be crazy to let Keenan Lewis escape.
After that's it's...

2. Brent Grimes
3. William Moore
4. Greg Toler
5. Sean Smith
6. Louis Delmas
7. DRC
9. Antone Cason
10. Bradley Fletcher
aka: BrownLeader

Last edited 1/30/2013 9:57 AM by JH360

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Posted: 1/30/2013 10:12 AM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


I can't put my finger on it but I think Heckert cast a big net for under the radar type linebackers last year and really got a good group with upside.

Robertson and LJ Fort can both run and hit and seem to be around quiet a few turn overs. JMJ lost some time to injury but was solid when he started to get playing time. Carder played more at special teams but even he has upside. I don't think these four just get flushed out by FA's and the sixth pick in the draft.

Wake me up when we are 10 and 6...

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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:01 PM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


Nice analysis but I think you've got too much of the LB talent piled up inside. JMJ should not be on the bench. For this transition to work we need to utilize more than replace. Gocong can play outside, and I suspect JMJ and Roberson might be able to as well. Robertson played on passing downs when we went to 2 LB sets. If all we have is Sheard and a rook at OLB we'll be awfully thin.
>>> Decleater <<<

Last edited 2/1/2013 9:04 PM by Gameface64

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Posted: 2/6/2013 7:14 AM

RE: Attacking D = Reboot 


Down goes Frostee and his midsized contract. 4-3 end....I guess they didn't want to attempt to fit him in.  I still think they have the horses on the D line with current personnel.

Wake me up when we are 10 and 6...

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