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10 on Monday

Posted: 12/3/2012 8:49 AM

10 on Monday 


1)  "Use enough adrenaline there, Butch?"

As usual, Weeden started up too amped up and overthrowing everyone in sight.  And then he settled down and answered critics who questioned his suitability for a West Coast passing attack.  The deep sideline pass was a welcome change (though the second opportunity was there except for the underthrown ball), but the more critical improvements came with better selection of receivers and accurate passes caught in stride for large gains.  Definitely the best yac game of the season.

Certainly the Oakland defense wasn't all that formidible, but then Weeden torched them as he should, and not many qb's are putting up 360 yards against anyone.

2)  And the most satisfying turnaround was the turnabout.  Browns fans could see fate's ugly hand when the second sideline pass was intercepted, and the Raiders turned right around with a quick strike.  It was looking like another giveway as the Raiders were looking to go ahead... until the Browns answered with an interception of their own (same sideline toss underthrown), then answered everybody's wish with the 94 yard, 6+ minute drive to effectively put the game out of reach. 

3)  Oakland's last drive showed the classic prevent defense that drives everyone nuts.  But the Raiders still needed too much time to get it done as they scored with virtually no time left on the clock.  Did anyone go "wtf?" when Palmer had 3rd & 1 with 32 seconds left and spiked the ball?  I didn't know a pat is a phantom play that takes no time whatsoever off the clock.  I realize it's an obligatory play if a team scores a td as time expires, but 1 second remained on the clock.

At least this time around, the prevent defense seemed to accomplish what it set out to do.  But one doesn't like to go to that well very often.

4)  Say, didn't you used to be Carson Palmer, the NFL's #1 draft pick?
His picture is featured prominently in the "be careful what you wish for" chapter on fa.
He wasn't helped as the Raiders receivers were dropping enough balls to make even the Browns go "Hey, wasn't that us in September?"


5)  Does Montario Hardesty warrant another series?  He's proven a refreshing change of pace as he hits the hole quickly (he looks smaller and faster than when he entered the league).  TR takes a real beating and could use a rest for the last ten mnutes of any game. The club seems more than tentative on using Hardesty as an outlet receiver like TR.  I know he sucked gravy last year, but that was last year, and I think he's capable of playing that role, though he's nowhere near as good as Trent.  OTOH whatever receiving prowess Marecic had at Stanford apparently stayed there.  

6)  A special "Circle the Wagons" Award goes to the Chiefs.  Say what you want about Romeo, Brady, et al, but how they could win under the conditions they faced over the weekend is monumental.  The Chiefs could have lost 56-0 and nobody would have thought ill of them. 

7)  Again, the Browns #1 need in the off season is a pass rusher.  Whether it's a legit starting rde or a pass rushing lb.  If the best one goes before it's their turn, a cb or fs.  They can get lbers in free agency.  For those who forgot, that's the period during the winter when many teams go after players whose contracts have expired with other teams.
No, it's never a panacea, but ignoring it almost entirely doesn't help a whole lot either, especially in a year when the Browns have already used their second round pick (and thank God we don't have to term it as "already wasted their second pick").

8)  Thank you, Greg Little, for the bone jarring block that gave Massaquoi an extra 20 yards on the run after catch.  If Gordon starts blocking with Little's enthusiasm, he would be damn dangerous.  He'll be fun to watch when he starts taking the game seriously.

9)  Before everyone gets all lovey dovey with Weeden's performance, he still kept to his weekly quota of 3-4  "wtif?!!" or "NEARLY intercepted!!" passes.  That's the stuff that makes you say "Thank God, we're playing the Raiders this week and not the Ravens."

10)  Had to watch this game in a Dayton area sports bar (and let me say that the barmaid did serious justice to her orange Browns tee, thank you), and three games were prominently displayed:  Browns-Raiders, Bengals-Chargers and Steelers-Ravens (some Tampa Bay fans next to me had to have their game on a smaller screen.  Whatphuqingever). 

Given the location, you'd expect the audio to be up for the local team.  It was up for Pittsburgh-Ballmer, and those in attendance were predominantly Steeler fans.  Great Browns plays would get a smattering of applause... a little more for the Bengals, but the overwhelming support was for the Steelers.  As much as I dislike them where the Browns are concerned, it's hard not to root for a team with Charlie Batch going toe to toe with the Ravens.  Interesting dynamics at one place at one point in time.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:11 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 


1) Weeds is what he is.  Some ups, some downs, when he is on - watch out.

2)YESSSS!

3) We executed the prevent to perfection - BTW, it is overused in the NFL.

4) I am not calling for a quarterback.

5) Montario is much improved, looks healthy, looks like we wanted him to look two years ago.

6) Screw the Chiefs - We must bury them.

7) The Browns and 24 other teams need a pass rusher, if one is there when we draft, we take one.

8) Greg Little might be growing up.

9) See #4 above - I am not calling for a quarterback.

10) Tough Break watching our game in front of Steeler fans, my life is better when I avoid them.  I wish both teams could lose when Pitt plays Balt.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:21 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 


"If Gordon starts blocking with Little's enthusiasm, he would be damn dangerous.  He'll be fun to watch when he starts taking the game seriously."

Ed Reed would disagree with the idea that Gordon hasn't taken blocking seriously.  Hopefully that penalty/fine won't discourage him from be aggressive in blocking.  For me, though, Little and Gordon are showing a lot of promise right now both in their consistency in catching the ball, improvements in route running, and their zeal for blocking.  Now if Gordon would just play defender better when the ball is under-thrown, we'll be in business!
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:26 AM

RE: 10 on Monday 


Weeden is having a typical rookie season..ups and downs.
I didn't get to see all of the game but he was effective.
His mechanics need working as he's high when needing to place the ball over 1 defender and into the reciever with another coming up.

The first one he was trying to throw over 1 defender and drop in front of the one coming up but the accuracy was not there.

But it appeared he settled down and was good.

That second INT ,his arm is slightly hit and the ball is underthrown.
Raiders D was stacked for TR but the guy is scoring TD's.
Hardesty isn't seeing the D stacked against him but it appears he has recovered from his knee injury,which the time period is normal.

Wr's were getting free,making the grabs and getting the YAC.

Little is showing marked improvement and making himself a solid # 2 ,while Gordon is showing that next season he'll be even more of a threat.

Defense ..yes they need a pass rusher in the worse way.
I don't think Palmer threw on Haden when I was watching.





But that's just what it is..he has enough upside to improve.
I'm not calling for another QB next season.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:37 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Aardvark wrote: The deep sideline pass was a welcome change (though the second opportunity was there except for the underthrown ball),
He appeared to get hit as he made the second deep throw.  CBS, because they had all of 2 cameramen at the game and maybe one tech in the truck, did not bother showing a replay of Weeden as he threw.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:51 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 


What, no golf or handicap parking analogies this week? ; - ) Just kidding, just kidding, but it was interesting to see what Batch could do once he shook off some rust. And if not for Emmanuel Sanders treating the football like a greased pig, the Steelers' win would have been even more decisive. Still, I do hope it adds at least a touch of vindication to what the Browns accomplished last week.

It was encouraging to see wide open Browns' receivers in the middle of the field. Other teams seem to manage it regularly, so it was pleasant to see a similar level of competency from this offense.

Not sure why QBs think its ever a good idea to throw the ball away when they're falling to their knees. Weeden's brain just seems to go to sleep every so often, like the processor is overworked and needs a little nap.

I've been trying to understand why Richardson can't break a long run. Yet Hardesty comes in and just snaps into the 2nd level like a walk in the park. Not trying to downgrade TR's toughness, the guy is nails, and always fighting for more yardage. Perhaps its coincidental, perhaps his knee isn't quite right and he's slow through the line, I don't know and haven't read any theories about it. TR looks fine on swing passes and gets up to speed quickly then.

I like Greg Little, and think he has incredibel potential as a #2 (or #1B) WR. Make MoMass the #3 with Benjamin and Cooper to round out the unit and that's NFL quality right there. Of course, Gordon is the key.

I thought Gipson played all right, and pretty good considering his pedigree. Hagg strikes me as try real hard, too slow. As mentioned in the other thread, I was watching Skrine yesterday and couldn't believe how often he gets turned 360 degrees. He is fast enough, and I think he has desire, but he needs to refine his technique and ability to flip his hips. Maybe some salsa lessons would be good.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:33 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 


The reason the Browns play the prevent in that situation can be summed up in two words: Buster Skrine.

OTOH, Sheldon Brown had the best game of his Browns career. 4 breakups, a huge pick as the Raiders were in scoring position, and some nice tackles. Brown was a really good acquisition by Heckert, who got him and Gocong cheap.

Gotta love two wins in a row, but let's face it, the Steelers were seriously crippled and the Raiders suck. They were also missing their star RB, Darren McFadden, their starting MLB, and they lost three DB's during the game. 

That being said, the Steelers just knocked off the Ravens, so they're still a very strong team. Maybe last week's win was more impressive than it looked. 

The Browns need to do a better job against tight ends. I never heard of Brandon Myers, but he caught 14 passes, and 9 of them came before the last drive when we were giving him the underneath passes. 

Give credit to Shurmur for finally get more aggressive in the play calling, especially the two 4th downs. However, playing against one of the worst defenses in the league can help you be more aggressive. 

Greg Little is turning his season around, little by little, after a horrible start. According to Terry Pluto he has dropped only one pass in the last five games and has 24 catches over that span. I'll take 24 to 1 from him any time. 

And Josh Gordon is really coming on. Weeden says he never saw any athlete improve this quickly in any sport. Another great pick by Heckert. Massaquoi is finally healthy, so the Browns may actually have a decent WR corps for the last four games. 

I don't want to say anything, but it's amazing how healthy the Browns have been this year. The only players (of significance) who missed game 12 were Gocong and Patterson. Usually they have 15-20 guys on the DL by this point.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:46 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 


I don't want to say anything, but it's amazing how healthy the Browns have been this year. The only players (of significance) who missed game 12 were Gocong and Patterson. Usually they have 15-20 guys on the DL by this point.


It's amazing how winning improves a team's health.
cool
Plus the added incentive of a new owner and boss.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:56 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Gameface64 wrote: I've been trying to understand why Richardson can't break a long run. Yet Hardesty comes in and just snaps into the 2nd level like a walk in the park. Not trying to downgrade TR's toughness, the guy is nails, and always fighting for more yardage. Perhaps its coincidental, perhaps his knee isn't quite right and he's slow through the line, I don't know and haven't read any theories about it. TR looks fine on swing passes and gets up to speed quickly then.

He broke one delayed draw run against Cincy and he had the big run against San Diego.  But for the most part I think it's because he still tends to run to contact.  He has very feww <3 yard runs but because he's bouncing off guys as he's going through the front line he's taking too long to get to the 5 yard mark to allow downfield blocks to hold.  Secondary and LBs in coverage are able to get in and stop him.

His bigger runs have been coming when he goes outside the tackles which tends to allow him to get through the first line w/o much contact when the D doesn't get penetration in the backfield.


With Hardesty when he does get through that first line he's essentially doing it with little contact and is making it to the 5 yard mark at full speed and fast enough that the secondary is still being blocked so when he does get to 5 yard mark he's able to get another 5-10. 

But if you watch the tape from yesterday Hardesty was ineffective between the tackles when he did get touched early on.  I've been very impressed with his ability to get moving and I actually think he's a pefect speed back to pair with Richardson.  I also think if he did get 20+ carries he would put up similar numbers to Richardson but it would be 5 15+ runs and 15 <3 yard runs resulting in more stopped drives and fewer redzone TDs. 

But I certainly could be wrong.  I also tend to not like his upright running style long term.  Seems like when he does get hit it's a lot more violent so wear and tear would be an issue.  Not that Richardson's looking like an indistructable warhorse either.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:11 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 


Don't know about healthy. Seems to me we've had a fair share of players missing time, but our depth is better (or our starters aren't that hot) to the point it's not so painful.

Gocong (IR)
Fujita (IR)
Patterson (multiple games)
Pinkston (IR)
MoMass (several games)
Usama Young (concussed)
Richardson (beginning of year)
Alex Smith (concussed, several games)
Haden (1 game plus suspension)
Ward (broken hand)
MJM (beginning of year, several games)

That's 6 or 7 starters depending on how you count.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:14 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Gameface64 wrote:
That's 6 or 7 starters depending on how you count.

I usually go with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, ad infinitum...  How do you count? 

;)
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:19 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Gameface64 wrote: I've been trying to understand why Richardson can't break a long run. Yet Hardesty comes in and just snaps into the 2nd level like a walk in the park. Not trying to downgrade TR's toughness, the guy is nails, and always fighting for more yardage. Perhaps its coincidental, perhaps his knee isn't quite right and he's slow through the line, I don't know and haven't read any theories about it. TR looks fine on swing passes and gets up to speed quickly then.

Watch the front 7 when TR is in.
8 in the box constantly and run blitzes being called .I know he's left some yards out there but I've seen too many DT's in the backfield or suffocating the LOS.

When MH is in he's not facing that type of scheme.
Plus he looks recovered from his knee injury and healthy.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:49 AM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Gameface64 wrote: Don't know about healthy. Seems to me we've had a fair share of players missing time, but our depth is better (or our starters aren't that hot) to the point it's not so painful.

Gocong (IR)
Fujita (IR)
Patterson (multiple games)
Pinkston (IR)
MoMass (several games)
Usama Young (concussed)
Richardson (beginning of year)
Alex Smith (concussed, several games)
Haden (1 game plus suspension)
Ward (broken hand)
MJM (beginning of year, several games)

That's 6 or 7 starters depending on how you count.
Game

You forgot Phil Taylor, who missed the first 8 or 9 games.

But I think the point PROS was making was that we only have 3 individuals of significance on IR ....and even that's debatable with Fujita, and even to a lesser extent Gocong.  And it certainly appears the OL has maybe even gotten better with Greco at LG in place of  Pinkston.  So not only are the numbers down, in a positive way; but the play of the replacements hasn't hurt the team overall, as is usually the case.

Plus, we usually have 8 or 10 guys on  IR by now at the 3/4 pole, and typically end up with 12+ by season's end...or so it seems.

So injuries haven't negatively impacted the Browns this year as has been the case so often in the past.

"Was there in '64....27-0, Browns!"

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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:34 PM

Re: 10 on Monday 



0tter wrote:
Gameface64 wrote:
That's 6 or 7 starters depending on how you count.

I usually go with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, ad infinitum...  How do you count? 

;)
Not for much.
>>> Decleater <<<
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:53 PM

Re: 10 on Monday 


PROS:

The reason the Browns play the prevent in that situation can be summed up in two words: Buster Skrine.

AA:

Don't know who was in on the last series.  Not like there is much depth anymore in the secondary.  And not like the pass rush, already ineffective earlier, could get it up in this formation.

PROS:

OTOH, Sheldon Brown had the best game of his Browns career. 4 breakups, a huge pick as the Raiders were in scoring position, and some nice tackles. Brown was a really good acquisition by Heckert, who got him and Gocong cheap.

AA:

But they have to replace him for next year.  He can be the third guy or converted to fs.  But time was running out on him even last year.

PROS:

Gotta love two wins in a row, but let's face it, the Steelers were seriously crippled and the Raiders suck. They were also missing their star RB, Darren McFadden, their starting MLB, and they lost three DB's during the game. 

AA:

Since the weather cleared up and there were seemingly no major issues with footing, McFadden would have changed the complexion of this game early.
And while the Raiders lost db's, didn't it appear as if the Browns exploited that as they should?  Now we just need to see more of that against healthier defenses.

PROS:

The Browns need to do a better job against tight ends. I never heard of Brandon Myers, but he caught 14 passes, and 9 of them came before the last drive when we were giving him the underneath passes. 

AA:

No kidding.  TE's have feasted on the Browns for years.

PROS:

Give credit to Shurmur for finally get more aggressive in the play calling, especially the two 4th downs. However, playing against one of the worst defenses in the league can help you be more aggressive. 

AA:

Does it stand to reason that whenever the Browns win, we THINK the playcalling is better/more aggressive?  I do know that pass pro was again exceptinal, and that the team apparently declared a moratorium on the interior screens.  But I was shocked that the Raiders didn't seem to pick up on TR as the outlet valve on the sideline.  Teams have picked up on that in recent weeks and almost made the Browns pay.  The Raiders looked like they never saw it.

PROS:

Greg Little is turning his season around, little by little, after a horrible start. According to Terry Pluto he has dropped only one pass in the last five games and has 24 catches over that span. I'll take 24 to 1 from him any time. 

AA:

I'd just like to see him get one in stride for his yac abilities.  Too often he goes to a spot and catches the ball flat footed and rarely has time or space to show his tackle breaking ability.

PROS:

And Josh Gordon is really coming on. Weeden says he never saw any athlete improve this quickly in any sport.

AA:

As opposed to Justin Blackmon, who was targeted six times yesterday... only to have one catch for nine yards.  In fairness, he did have a monster game against the Texans two weeks ago:  7 catches for 236 yards!

PROS:

I don't want to say anything, but it's amazing how healthy the Browns have been this year. The only players (of significance) who missed game 12 were Gocong and Patterson. Usually they have 15-20 guys on the DL by this point.

AA:

Whether healthy or not, the key is continuity, having the same guys show up week after week.  One big stat I forgot to mention:  the Browns were penalized only twice. 

Who ARE these guys?  I don't know you anymore!
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:11 PM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Gameface64 wrote: Don't know about healthy. Seems to me we've had a fair share of players missing time, but our depth is better (or our starters aren't that hot) to the point it's not so painful.

Gocong (IR)
Fujita (IR)
Patterson (multiple games)
Pinkston (IR)
MoMass (several games)
Usama Young (concussed)
Richardson (beginning of year)
Alex Smith (concussed, several games)
Haden (1 game plus suspension)
Ward (broken hand)
MJM (beginning of year, several games)

That's 6 or 7 starters depending on how you count.
I forgot Pinkston, but we have a replacement who's just as good. I didn't count Fujita because I don't think he'd be playing even if he was OK. 

Those other guys missed games here and there but they're back now. I'm just saying it's unusual to be able to suit up all but a couple of your main guys for the 12th game. 

I think the Alex Smith injury hurt them more than you might think. He seems to be in on almost every play except obvious passing downs when it's Watson and Cameron. Smith has taken over for Marecic, and the improvement has been significant, IMO.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:55 PM

Re: 10 on Monday 



PROSECUTOR wrote:
Gameface64 wrote: Don't know about healthy. Seems to me we've had a fair share of players missing time, but our depth is better (or our starters aren't that hot) to the point it's not so painful.

Gocong (IR)
Fujita (IR)
Patterson (multiple games)
Pinkston (IR)
MoMass (several games)
Usama Young (concussed)
Richardson (beginning of year)
Alex Smith (concussed, several games)
Haden (1 game plus suspension)
Ward (broken hand)
MJM (beginning of year, several games)

That's 6 or 7 starters depending on how you count.
I forgot Pinkston, but we have a replacement who's just as good. I didn't count Fujita because I don't think he'd be playing even if he was OK. 

Those other guys missed games here and there but they're back now. I'm just saying it's unusual to be able to suit up all but a couple of your main guys for the 12th game. 

I think the Alex Smith injury hurt them more than you might think. He seems to be in on almost every play except obvious passing downs when it's Watson and Cameron. Smith has taken over for Marecic, and the improvement has been significant, IMO.
We need to upgrade TE as much as any offensive position.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 8:03 PM

Re: 10 on Monday 


Game:
Not for much.

G:
I got your back on this one, Game. Let me take a moment here to support my fellow moderator and agree with him.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:17 PM

Re: 10 on Monday 



Gary Reents wrote: Game:
Not for much.

G:
I got your back on this one, Game. Let me take a moment here to support my fellow moderator and agree with him.

SD:

That was so baaad.
WAR : OUR TIME HAS COME
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