sometimes I think the best thing for the Sooners is the death of the Big12.  vote to end it, kill it, put it out of it's misery, do away with all the contracts and become a free agent and see where we get the best offer.  won't happen though, TT, KU, KSU,Baylor ect.... won't let it, even as screwed up as the Big12 is, it's still the best thing out there for them

I wonder the same...let's see who wants to pick us up the most...SEC/BIG/PAC and go w/best offer, perhaps?

Jmboyer1 wrote:

sometimes I think the best thing for the Sooners is the death of the Big12.  vote to end it, kill it, put it out of it's misery, do away with all the contracts and become a free agent and see where we get the best offer.  won't happen though, TT, KU, KSU,Baylor ect.... won't let it, even as screwed up as the Big12 is, it's still the best thing out there for them

I wonder the same...let's see who wants to pick us up the most...SEC/BIG/PAC and go w/best offer, perhaps?

The Pac12 expanded to 16 teams with the addition of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Baylor would be one heck of a conference across MANY NCAA sports for both men and women.

12233 wrote:

WhiskyKilo wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: what I see happening is the Big12 picking up a couple of lesser teams, everyone talks of Clemson and FSU, for some reason I think that's a dream that won't happen.  the Big12 just isn't that attractive at the moment, the big boy's in this will look to join one of the other two power conferences.... if they fail to get in they might consider the Big12 as a last option. 

that's what I think will happen, 2 teams that everyone will go yuck when they hear it, two teams that will cause travel problems... but it will allow Dodd's and Boren to thump their chest and say see what we did... back to 12 and can have 2 divisions and a conference championship game.

I don't know about the contracts, I mention the Pac only because it would make sense.  You would get rid of WV someway, wrap up a tv market from the Mississippi to the Pacific, it couldn't hurt recruiting to be apart of a conference that covered a wide area, by contrast you would have the Big10 and SEC in an all out war in a compacted area east of the Mississippi.

there's a lot of reason's it wouldn't work, and Texas being at the top, plus to do it would take some creative thinking and risk taking... Dodd's - Boren aren't exactly known for creative thinking and being risk takers.

12233 wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: what I think would be best for everyone instead of trying to use glue and duct tape to put together a conference would be for both the ACC and the Big 12 to each voted to end their conferences, just disband.  Everyone becomes a fee agent or put together the best 16 team conference possible from the 2.

right now people say one will fail and one will survive with the ACC the expected failure, but with the SEC and Big10 picking off the top even in survival I fear we may not be thrilled with what we end up with.  just end it and start over.

that won't happen, so I see us either fearing having our knee caps busted from Deloss's strong arm tactics and backing down and staying at 10, or picking up a couple leftovers that doesn't thrill anyone just to get to the number 12.

unless... the PAC12 throws us a life preserver in an effort to expand their tv market, they either take enough Big12 teams in that those teams can kill the Big12 and end all the contracts and buyouts or they work a deal with the entire conference, some sort've merger between the two.

I don't see how a merger with the PAC-12 can happen. It's the old problem with LHN. Texas no longer owns the rights to their own tier 3 sports. Those rights went to ESPN when ESPN bought LHN. In other words, Texas has no way to participate in the PAC-12 Network, and I seriously doubt the PAC would allow a school to join the conference without being a full fledged member of the network. If they allow Texas to make their own deal, the other PAC schools could demand the same option. I guess it's possible the PAC could take the other nine Big 12 schools, but does the PAC really want 21 members? I doubt it.

Clemson and FSU don't exactly have a lot of options.  The PAC 12 is too far away, the B1G certainly won't take them, and I doubt that the SEC wants them, not because they are bad programs, but because of where they are located.  The SEC already has FL and SC, why do they need to double up in areas that they already have?  Taking teams from NC and VA, 2 populous states, will make more money in the long run.

Bottom line:  The Big 12 is likely the ONLY option Clemson and FSU have.  They both probably don't even like the idea of going to the Big 12, but like I stated, they have no options, imo.

Taking two teams from the same state is nothing new for the SEC. They have Bama and Auburn in Alabama, Ole Miss and Miss. State in MIss. and Tenn. and Vanderbilt in Tenn. Florida is a big state with several major TV markets. It's a state where the SEC can easily justify Florida and FSU. South Carolina is about the same size as Alabama, so combining Clemson along with SC is no big stretch.

The states with 2 teams added to the SEC happened in 1932 when they formed the conference, long before anybody even knew what a television was, let alone how a school could make money from one.

This has no relevance going forward, imo. 

The only question that matters is this: Can you make more money by moving into new states as opposed to doubling up in states where you already have a presence.  From all I have read on the subject, VA and NC markets will make more money than FSU/Miami and Clemson.

WhiskyKilo wrote:

12233 wrote:

WhiskyKilo wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: what I see happening is the Big12 picking up a couple of lesser teams, everyone talks of Clemson and FSU, for some reason I think that's a dream that won't happen.  the Big12 just isn't that attractive at the moment, the big boy's in this will look to join one of the other two power conferences.... if they fail to get in they might consider the Big12 as a last option. 

that's what I think will happen, 2 teams that everyone will go yuck when they hear it, two teams that will cause travel problems... but it will allow Dodd's and Boren to thump their chest and say see what we did... back to 12 and can have 2 divisions and a conference championship game.

I don't know about the contracts, I mention the Pac only because it would make sense.  You would get rid of WV someway, wrap up a tv market from the Mississippi to the Pacific, it couldn't hurt recruiting to be apart of a conference that covered a wide area, by contrast you would have the Big10 and SEC in an all out war in a compacted area east of the Mississippi.

there's a lot of reason's it wouldn't work, and Texas being at the top, plus to do it would take some creative thinking and risk taking... Dodd's - Boren aren't exactly known for creative thinking and being risk takers.

12233 wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: what I think would be best for everyone instead of trying to use glue and duct tape to put together a conference would be for both the ACC and the Big 12 to each voted to end their conferences, just disband.  Everyone becomes a fee agent or put together the best 16 team conference possible from the 2.

right now people say one will fail and one will survive with the ACC the expected failure, but with the SEC and Big10 picking off the top even in survival I fear we may not be thrilled with what we end up with.  just end it and start over.

that won't happen, so I see us either fearing having our knee caps busted from Deloss's strong arm tactics and backing down and staying at 10, or picking up a couple leftovers that doesn't thrill anyone just to get to the number 12.

unless... the PAC12 throws us a life preserver in an effort to expand their tv market, they either take enough Big12 teams in that those teams can kill the Big12 and end all the contracts and buyouts or they work a deal with the entire conference, some sort've merger between the two.

I don't see how a merger with the PAC-12 can happen. It's the old problem with LHN. Texas no longer owns the rights to their own tier 3 sports. Those rights went to ESPN when ESPN bought LHN. In other words, Texas has no way to participate in the PAC-12 Network, and I seriously doubt the PAC would allow a school to join the conference without being a full fledged member of the network. If they allow Texas to make their own deal, the other PAC schools could demand the same option. I guess it's possible the PAC could take the other nine Big 12 schools, but does the PAC really want 21 members? I doubt it.

Clemson and FSU don't exactly have a lot of options.  The PAC 12 is too far away, the B1G certainly won't take them, and I doubt that the SEC wants them, not because they are bad programs, but because of where they are located.  The SEC already has FL and SC, why do they need to double up in areas that they already have?  Taking teams from NC and VA, 2 populous states, will make more money in the long run.

Bottom line:  The Big 12 is likely the ONLY option Clemson and FSU have.  They both probably don't even like the idea of going to the Big 12, but like I stated, they have no options, imo.

Taking two teams from the same state is nothing new for the SEC. They have Bama and Auburn in Alabama, Ole Miss and Miss. State in MIss. and Tenn. and Vanderbilt in Tenn. Florida is a big state with several major TV markets. It's a state where the SEC can easily justify Florida and FSU. South Carolina is about the same size as Alabama, so combining Clemson along with SC is no big stretch.

The states with 2 teams added to the SEC happened in 1932 when they formed the conference, long before anybody even knew what a television was, let alone how a school could make money from one.

This has no relevance going forward, imo. 

The only question that matters is this: Can you make more money by moving into new states as opposed to doubling up in states where you already have a presence.  From all I have read on the subject, VA and NC markets will make more money than FSU/Miami and Clemson.

Yeah, you're right Whiskey. The SEC will make more by adding VA and NC.

drmouse wrote: I think the acc tier 3 games are raycom. not espn .  espn has first pick and the rest are raycom.   swofford's son is a raycom executive and raycom was thrown a 3rd tier bone to help raycom's bottom line.

Kind of. It is more like a mix of T2 and T3.  Raycom has to buy the games from ESPN. ESPN owns all ACC games T1-3. They just agreed to sell a certain number of games to Raycom as part of the contract with the ACC. ESPN is the middleman between the ACC and Raycom.

soonerBAS wrote: that's the way I see it also, A&M changed everything, the SEC will look to protect their turf from outsiders.

I might be wrong, but i'd guess the SEC really is hoping the ACC survives, the ACC put's a buffer between the SEC and the Big10.  a lot of years they seem to be a top heavy league, they just let A&M in who can challenge the big guy's there, it's hard to believe they would really want another team that could crash the party like FSU in the conference.  If the ACC fails though they may be forced to take them just to keep the Big10 out. 

sometimes I think the best thing for the Sooners is the death of the Big12.  vote to end it, kill it, put it out of it's misery, do away with all the contracts and become a free agent and see where we get the best offer.  won't happen though, TT, KU, KSU,Baylor ect.... won't let it, even as screwed up as the Big12 is, it's still the best thing out there for them

drmouse wrote: I think FSU gets picked up by either the big 10 or sec.  I think sec because the sec saw what another conference in a state can do.. A&M in texas opened texas to the sec.   the sec won't want the big 10 in the florida market.  big 12 is a distant 3rd choice for FSU.

KU will be fine so don't lump us in there. OU would have had more options last year, if you left OSU behind. KU/OU or OU/TTU would have gotten in the PAC most likely. OU alone, gets in the SEC if you want, instead of MU.  Problem is the state of Oklahoma is too small for conferences to be excited about taking 2 teams from there, with the network model the PAC/SEC/B1G are all using.

yea, we know the politicians would throw a fit in Oklahoma if we tried to do something without OSU.

someone mentioned the other day that it would be an attractive package to offer a conference of OU, OSU, UT, and Baylor.  Myself i'd prefer dumping either OSU or Baylor and adding one of the Kansas schools.  KU would be nice because of their basketball tradition, but i'd guess they would vote to keep the conference unless something better was waiting in the wings, the votes just aren't there to kill this thing.

jhawkmvp wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: that's the way I see it also, A&M changed everything, the SEC will look to protect their turf from outsiders.

I might be wrong, but i'd guess the SEC really is hoping the ACC survives, the ACC put's a buffer between the SEC and the Big10.  a lot of years they seem to be a top heavy league, they just let A&M in who can challenge the big guy's there, it's hard to believe they would really want another team that could crash the party like FSU in the conference.  If the ACC fails though they may be forced to take them just to keep the Big10 out. 

sometimes I think the best thing for the Sooners is the death of the Big12.  vote to end it, kill it, put it out of it's misery, do away with all the contracts and become a free agent and see where we get the best offer.  won't happen though, TT, KU, KSU,Baylor ect.... won't let it, even as screwed up as the Big12 is, it's still the best thing out there for them

drmouse wrote: I think FSU gets picked up by either the big 10 or sec.  I think sec because the sec saw what another conference in a state can do.. A&M in texas opened texas to the sec.   the sec won't want the big 10 in the florida market.  big 12 is a distant 3rd choice for FSU.

KU will be fine so don't lump us in there. OU would have had more options last year, if you left OSU behind. KU/OU or OU/TTU would have gotten in the PAC most likely. OU alone, gets in the SEC if you want, instead of MU.  Problem is the state of Oklahoma is too small for conferences to be excited about taking 2 teams from there, with the network model the PAC/SEC/B1G are all using.

soonerBAS wrote: yea, we know the politicians would throw a fit in Oklahoma if we tried to do something without OSU.

someone mentioned the other day that it would be an attractive package to offer a conference of OU, OSU, UT, and Baylor.  Myself i'd prefer dumping either OSU or Baylor and adding one of the Kansas schools.  KU would be nice because of their basketball tradition, but i'd guess they would vote to keep the conference unless something better was waiting in the wings, the votes just aren't there to kill this thing.

jhawkmvp wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: that's the way I see it also, A&M changed everything, the SEC will look to protect their turf from outsiders.

I might be wrong, but i'd guess the SEC really is hoping the ACC survives, the ACC put's a buffer between the SEC and the Big10.  a lot of years they seem to be a top heavy league, they just let A&M in who can challenge the big guy's there, it's hard to believe they would really want another team that could crash the party like FSU in the conference.  If the ACC fails though they may be forced to take them just to keep the Big10 out. 

sometimes I think the best thing for the Sooners is the death of the Big12.  vote to end it, kill it, put it out of it's misery, do away with all the contracts and become a free agent and see where we get the best offer.  won't happen though, TT, KU, KSU,Baylor ect.... won't let it, even as screwed up as the Big12 is, it's still the best thing out there for them

drmouse wrote: I think FSU gets picked up by either the big 10 or sec.  I think sec because the sec saw what another conference in a state can do.. A&M in texas opened texas to the sec.   the sec won't want the big 10 in the florida market.  big 12 is a distant 3rd choice for FSU.

KU will be fine so don't lump us in there. OU would have had more options last year, if you left OSU behind. KU/OU or OU/TTU would have gotten in the PAC most likely. OU alone, gets in the SEC if you want, instead of MU.  Problem is the state of Oklahoma is too small for conferences to be excited about taking 2 teams from there, with the network model the PAC/SEC/B1G are all using.

Who are you going to offer UT to? No one will take them, because ESPN owns 100% of the Horns' tier 3 sports via LHN.. Ownership of tier 3 sports has become crucial, because that's what's being programmed on conference networks. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone would take OU without the tier 3 sports we've sold to Fox. I hope we have an easy easy way out of that contract.

I wouldn't want to drop OSU - we have too few rivalries left as it is.  The Pac won't take Baylor because of their religious affiliation anyway.  It would be nice to take OU/OSU/UT/KU to the Pac.  If they go to 18 schools then add TTU and see if maybe Nebraska wants to leave the B10 and go with us to the Pac.  I know they have a grant of rights, but I'm really beginning to wonder how ironclad those agreements are.

soonerBAS wrote: yea, we know the politicians would throw a fit in Oklahoma if we tried to do something without OSU.

someone mentioned the other day that it would be an attractive package to offer a conference of OU, OSU, UT, and Baylor.  Myself i'd prefer dumping either OSU or Baylor and adding one of the Kansas schools.  KU would be nice because of their basketball tradition, but i'd guess they would vote to keep the conference unless something better was waiting in the wings, the votes just aren't there to kill this thing.

jhawkmvp wrote:

soonerBAS wrote: that's the way I see it also, A&M changed everything, the SEC will look to protect their turf from outsiders.

I might be wrong, but i'd guess the SEC really is hoping the ACC survives, the ACC put's a buffer between the SEC and the Big10.  a lot of years they seem to be a top heavy league, they just let A&M in who can challenge the big guy's there, it's hard to believe they would really want another team that could crash the party like FSU in the conference.  If the ACC fails though they may be forced to take them just to keep the Big10 out. 

sometimes I think the best thing for the Sooners is the death of the Big12.  vote to end it, kill it, put it out of it's misery, do away with all the contracts and become a free agent and see where we get the best offer.  won't happen though, TT, KU, KSU,Baylor ect.... won't let it, even as screwed up as the Big12 is, it's still the best thing out there for them

drmouse wrote: I think FSU gets picked up by either the big 10 or sec.  I think sec because the sec saw what another conference in a state can do.. A&M in texas opened texas to the sec.   the sec won't want the big 10 in the florida market.  big 12 is a distant 3rd choice for FSU.

KU will be fine so don't lump us in there. OU would have had more options last year, if you left OSU behind. KU/OU or OU/TTU would have gotten in the PAC most likely. OU alone, gets in the SEC if you want, instead of MU.  Problem is the state of Oklahoma is too small for conferences to be excited about taking 2 teams from there, with the network model the PAC/SEC/B1G are all using.