soonerfrog wrote: I totally disagree with your opinion that DeLoss Dodds has lost influence in the Big 12. The reason Dodds has any influence at all is because he's the AD at TEXAS, the flagship university in the 2nd largest state in the U.S., with a population of over 26 million people. It's not because Dodds is personally influential, it's because of the huge TV markets throughout the state and what those markets mean to the conference. Texas is more than twice as large as all the other Big 12 states combined. The AD at Texas will ALWAYS have a huge amount of influence, whether it's Dodds or anyone else.

As far as Dodds goes, he's dodging bullets within his own athletic department, let alone the rest of the conference. Boosters are calling for his head as much as Mack's. He made an *** of himself trying unsuccessfully to court Notre Dame to the Big 12 (a big fat failure...the ACC is about to find out that ND is only using them too and will never join as a football member). The LHN, which was supposed to be his crowning achievement, has been an utter disaster and alienated other teams like A&M, and has been an albatross around the coaches' necks. Just ask Mack Brown. The worst of the worst ESPN announcers get stuck working the LHN (Mike Patrick and Ed Cunningham? Lowell Galindo and Kevin Dunn? LOL!!!). And they still can't get the major carriers in Texas to carry it (Comcast, Dish, DirectTV, TimeWarner). 

When the schools signed off on the Grant of Rights deal, Dodds lost a great deal of power. If UT threatened to leave, who would care? The conference would still get UT's TV rights for the duration of the contract. And after Dodds' utter refusal to get rid of the LHN or fold it into a conference network, he's burned bridges with the likes of the Pac-12. The B1G won't compromise on its B1G network either. The SEC is a money-making machine that doesn't need UT and can tell it to go stuff itself if it wants to. So, the notion that Dodds carries the weight he used to just doesn't hold water. If people think that Bob Bowlsby has to call DD to get approval to scratch his own rear, they are sorely mistaken.

12233 wrote:

soonerfrog wrote: I totally disagree with your opinion that DeLoss Dodds has lost influence in the Big 12. The reason Dodds has any influence at all is because he's the AD at TEXAS, the flagship university in the 2nd largest state in the U.S., with a population of over 26 million people. It's not because Dodds is personally influential, it's because of the huge TV markets throughout the state and what those markets mean to the conference. Texas is more than twice as large as all the other Big 12 states combined. The AD at Texas will ALWAYS have a huge amount of influence, whether it's Dodds or anyone else.

As far as Dodds goes, he's dodging bullets within his own athletic department, let alone the rest of the conference. Boosters are calling for his head as much as Mack's. He made an *** of himself trying unsuccessfully to court Notre Dame to the Big 12 (a big fat failure...the ACC is about to find out that ND is only using them too and will never join as a football member). The LHN, which was supposed to be his crowning achievement, has been an utter disaster and alienated other teams like A&M, and has been an albatross around the coaches' necks. Just ask Mack Brown. The worst of the worst ESPN announcers get stuck working the LHN (Mike Patrick and Ed Cunningham? Lowell Galindo and Kevin Dunn? LOL!!!). And they still can't get the major carriers in Texas to carry it (Comcast, Dish, DirectTV, TimeWarner). 

When the schools signed off on the Grant of Rights deal, Dodds lost a great deal of power. If UT threatened to leave, who would care? The conference would still get UT's TV rights for the duration of the contract. And after Dodds' utter refusal to get rid of the LHN or fold it into a conference network, he's burned bridges with the likes of the Pac-12. The B1G won't compromise on its B1G network either. The SEC is a money-making machine that doesn't need UT and can tell it to go stuff itself if it wants to. So, the notion that Dodds carries the weight he used to just doesn't hold water. If people think that Bob Bowlsby has to call DD to get approval to scratch his own rear, they are sorely mistaken.

Frog, I think you have the GOR backwards. The GOR is exactly what Dodds wanted. He wanted to hold the Big 12 together because UT's LHN deal with ESPN prevented them from being acceptable to any of the other major conferences. If the Big 12 fell apart, UT would either have to give up the millions they earn on LHN or go independent. They don't want to do either. It was Texas that wanted the GOR and once again Dodds got his way. What's even worse, is he got what he wanted because Boren went along with it, instead of moving OU out of the conference.

soonerfrog wrote:

12233 wrote:

 

Well, Frog, I hope you're right. But I'm not convinced that sitting back and doing nothing but talking to each other is the right posture at this point. As far as the Big 12 adding only traditional powers, since when are TCU and WVU "traditional powers?" They are OK schools and I have no problem with adding them, but they are not traditional football powers. Heck, the TCU stadium only seats 45,000 (KU seats 50,000.)

As you've pointed out, sometimes doing nothing is best. But sometimes doing nothing will kill you. When the Big 10 originated the first conference-owned TV network, the Big 12 considered it and decided to do nothing. That decision practically ended the conference and will hurt the Big 12 immeasurably for years to come.

My concern is if we wait too long, the SEC, B1G and PAC-12 will get so far ahead of us that we'll never be able to catch up. We could end up with nothing left but the teams you say we don't want, like Louisville and Cincy. Anyone can sit back and wait and see how things unfold, but men of vision are willing to take bold actions with measured risk.

I totally disagree with your opinion that DeLoss Dodds has lost influence in the Big 12. The reason Dodds has any influence at all is because he's the AD at TEXAS, the flagship university in the 2nd largest state in the U.S., with a population of over 26 million people. It's not because Dodds is personally influential, it's because of the huge TV markets throughout the state and what those markets mean to the conference. Texas is more than twice as large as all the other Big 12 states combined. The AD at Texas will ALWAYS have a huge amount of influence, whether it's Dodds or anyone else.

I never said that WVU and TCU were powerhouses; I said they brought as much as Mizzou and A&M brought to the table and were equal replacements for the departed teams: 

WVU 708-463-45, 14 bowl wins, 15 Conference Championships
TCU 598-522-57, 1 National Championship, 13 bowl wins, 18 Conference Championships

A&M 693-452-48, 1 National Championship, 15 bowl wins, 18 Conference Championships
Mizzou 637-529-53, 13 bowl wins, 15 Conference Championships

I also never suggested doing "nothing"...the Big 12 is doing everything they can do right now given the constraints placed upon them. They can't go out and overtly say, "Hey FSU, Clemson, GT and Miami...we want to poach you from the the ACC!" unless they want to pay out a major lawsuit.

The Pac-12 just signed a big TV deal 2 years ago, so there aren't any members available from that conference. The SEC is not going to split. Neither is the B1G.

That leaves us two potential options for conference expansion:
(1) Backdoor communication with the ACC teams you want to steal. That's the only conference left that's on shaky ground with disgruntled members that we can absorb teams from. It is also the only conference left with any football programs that would add value and maintain or increase our TV contract payout.

As I said, our guys can't go out and overtly court a member of the ACC, so it all has to be done through back channels where the ACC member can announce "on their own accord" their decision to leave the ACC.

(2) This second expansion option is not an option--and make no mistake about it--we have reached that point where our only other option outside of romancing an ACC team away is to bring in an inferior program of the likes of a Lousiville or a Cincy.  Teams from C-USA, Big Least, WAC or Mountain West teams are about the only remaining types of options left.

But again, that is not an option. Adding one of those teams would be worse than staying at 10 members. It would weaken the product on the field, it would decrease the per team payout on the TV contract, and would do far more damage to our reputation as a strong conference which has already taken a massive blow with the loss of Nebraska. No one, and I mean no one outside of the home states/fan bases is going to care about a regular Texas vs Cincinnati match up, or an Oklahoma vs Louisville match up. Having those kinds of teams as members would be like scheduling a 1-AA team in the non-conference. It only serves to damage you. 

You could make a case for adding Brigham Young, since BYU has a football tradition and has a National Championship and 24 conference championships to its résumé. But that won't come close to replacing a power like Nebraska. That would only serve to be a replacement for Colorado. I would say the same thing about Clemson. 

To fill in Nebraska's shoes there are only two legitimate options there: Miami and Florida State. Miami has the same number of National Championships as NU, but they are facing some serious future NCAA sanctions, on top of the fact they are currently suffering from NCAA sanctions. Their athletic department is in dire straits and would need a major bailout from any conference that takes them away. So they will likely stink for the foreseeable future and be a drag on the conference. 

FSU doesn't have the number of titles NU has, but they have a devoted following, a national brand, and a quality recent 20 year history with some championships mixed in there. Again, I'd take Nebraska over both of these, but that isn't an option. Since FSU wants another ACC team to come with them if they leave, that means the BYU option's out the window. Unless there is an absolute implosion of the ACC, Georgia Tech would only go to the B1G because they are that concerned with academic reputation and the B1G is all AAU schools except for Nebraska. So GT is not a real option. 

So that leaves either FSU and Miami, or FSU and Clemson. With the ACC's $50 million exit fee, we'll have to wait and see if such a penalty is enforceable with Maryland's departure to the B1G. If it is legally enforceable, then we're stuck waiting for the SEC or B1G to start shedding teams because we're not paying $50 million to another conference to take one of their teams. 

Those are our options and none of them are very satisfying.