spaceman wrote:

IMO, the Big 12 WAC is in stage four cancer. The future of OU Football is in the hands of Texas. 

Total crap.OU controls it's own destiny.If they choose to continue to hold onto the coattails of ut then that's on the OU AD and the president of the University of Oklahoma.We control our own destiny.It's what we decide to do,plain and simple.I do agree that the BIG12 is in a cancerous stage.We either remove the Cancer (ut) or stop the treatments and let the conference die.Putting bandaids (WV & TCU) did not help.

soonerBAS wrote: Have we forgotten about the other conference in this... the PAC?  Nobody ever talks about what the PAC might do when or if the ACC folds up.

You are correct. The Big 12's Plan B should something like BYU/UNLV/Boise/AFA and that would cut the balls and scrotum right off of the Pac-12. They'd be left with Hawaii, SDS, SJS and UBC.

This is one of the most interesting strings I've read on this, or any, message board. Thanks to whoever started it ... and for some interesting, intelligent responses.

Personally, I think OU married its first cousin in Austin and is letting the ***** call all the shots. In the meantime, our pickup (the Big XII) is going into the ditch or maybe off the bridge with her driving.

Boren is bright, but he screwed the pooch when he let this happen. DeLost Dodds, indeed.

Boilerbuilder wrote: drmouse, it appears you do not believe in the SEC "Gentlemen's Agreement" (link). In a nutshell, it says that the presidents of Florida, UGA, South Carolina and Kentucky will vote together to block admission of any of the following: Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson or Louisville. 

I believe the "GA" to be true. Furthermore, the SEC already has the flagship schools in those four states so there would be no expansion of footprint and minimal improvement in TV market by adding them. If the SEC expands, I think they'll go after schools in states where they do not currently have a presence.

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/08/a...reement-theory/

There's nothing easier to break than a gentlemen's agreement. For one thing, when the time comes for the agreement to actually be enforced, one or more of the "gentlemem" may be long gone. Also, circumstances change. And there's always the issue of pressure from the networks who are paying billions for the broadcast rights to college sports. A gentlemen's agreement is worth about the same as the paper it isn't written on.

Actually, we've already seen effects of the Gentlemen's Agreement. The SEC's 14th was Mizzou rather than a far more logical choice of FSU.

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--- Boilerbuilder wrote:

drmouse, it appears you do not believe in the SEC "Gentlemen's Agreement" (link). In a nutshell, it says that the presidents of Florida, UGA, South Carolina and Kentucky will vote together to block admission of any of the following: Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson or Louisville. 

I believe the "GA" to be true. Furthermore, the SEC already has the flagship schools in those four states so there would be no expansion of footprint and minimal improvement in TV market by adding them. If the SEC expands, I think they'll go after schools in states where they do not currently have a presence.

www.mrsec.com/2011/08/a...reement-theory/

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Which is along the lines of A&M telling Texas to get bent. No offense to OSU or Texas fans... but if it comes to survival, nobody is worth hitching your wagon to. This is football we're talking about here. All the talk about what moving to the SEC means academically is just stupid. These conferences exist because of a game. The opportunity to join the best has passed us already. It would be a fatal error to let it pass us again. Dodds arrogant move that put us in this mess now imploding is a prime example of what will happen if we stay aboard the RMS Titanic like this. Adding TCU and WVU was like throwing us a rubber ducky to stay afloat while A&M and Mizzou took a flight out first class. Who cares if you get your *** kicked like Mizzou? You deal with that AFTER you save your brand.

Boilerbuilder wrote: Actually, we've already seen effects of the Gentlemen's Agreement. The SEC's 14th was Mizzou rather than a far more logical choice of FSU.

The Gentlemens Agreement had nothing to do with the SEC choosing Mizzou over FSU. The SEC annexed Missouri because it substantially increased their TV footprint. Mizzou got them the 18th largest state with over 6 million people, plus the St. Louis (21st) and Kansas City (31st) TV markets.

Missouri is a completely new market area for the SEC, and of the 10 states that make up the conference footprint, Missouri is the 5th largest in terms of TV sets. It's larger than Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and Kentucky.

. FSU would have delivered nothing new in the way of TV markets. Missouri, regardless of how their teams fare in the SEC, will add $$$ when the SEC renegotiates their TV contract. The same is true in spades when Texas A&M is added into the mix.

12233 wrote:

Boilerbuilder wrote: Actually, we've already seen effects of the Gentlemen's Agreement. The SEC's 14th was Mizzou rather than a far more logical choice of FSU.

The Gentlemens Agreement had nothing to do with the SEC choosing Mizzou over FSU. The SEC annexed Missouri because it substantially increased their TV footprint. Mizzou got them the 18th largest state with over 6 million people, plus the St. Louis (21st) and Kansas City (31st) TV markets.

Missouri is a completely new market area for the SEC, and of the 10 states that make up the conference footprint, Missouri is the 5th largest in terms of TV sets. It's larger than Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and Kentucky.

. FSU would have delivered nothing new in the way of TV markets. Missouri, regardless of how their teams fare in the SEC, will add $$$ when the SEC renegotiates their TV contract. The same is true in spades when Texas A&M is added into the mix.

OK, then using your logic the SEC's desire to expand into new TV markets will have exactly the same effect at the Gentlemen's Agreement. If they go to 16 members they will not choose Miami, FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville or Texas because they have already captured those TV markets.

Believe either scenario that you wish. The net result is that further SEC expansion will be in new turf, e.g. Virginia, NC, WV, Oklahoma.

IMO, WV and Oklahoma and all other Big 12 schools are now out of the question due to their grant of rights agreements. The SEC isn't going to take a school that can't bring it's broadcast rights. It's like paying a huge price for a big diamond ring that has nothing but an empty hole where the diamond is supposed to be. I am among those who firmly believe the GOR contract is legal and enforceable.

I can certainly see where the SEC would be interested in North Carolina and Virginia. They are the 10th and 12th largest states respectively.

I don't feel qualified to predict what the SEC will do in the future. I'll leave that up to you. I will say I don't think it will be determined by an unwritten agreement among university presidents who have no authority whatsoever to speak for the state governments that provide them with much of their funding. The governors and legislatures of states like Florida, South Carolina, Georgia and Kentucky may very well tell those university presidents they have no right to block SEC invitations to other schools in their states.

IMO, the SEC's future expansion plans will be driven more by ESPN than anyone else. There is also a strong possibility the SEC will form a conference TV network in the near future. That will happen unless ESPN is willing to pay the conference enough money to prevent it. If the SEC Network is formed, it could completely change the conference's current thinking regarding expansion.

Just too many unknowns at this point, but IMO the gentlemens agreement will not be the driving force. For one thing, it has no teeth. What's the penalty if one of the presidents changes his mind?

I think we should add USF and UCF now. This would provide the travel partners for FSU and Miami. If Maryland wins the lawsuit, I feel that under this circumstance we would add the two easily. This would bring us to 14. Leave the two open spots for the best options (VT, GT, Clemson, ND (Dodd's wet dream) and others.)

Or we test the GOR and leave now. Also maybe it is time for Boren to step down.

12233 wrote: Just too many unknowns at this point, but IMO the gentlemens agreement will not be the driving force. For one thing, it has no teeth. What's the penalty if one of the presidents changes his mind?

It's not a legal contract, it's a gentlemen's agreement sealed with a wink and a handshake. If one of the presidents changed his mind, for example Kentucky, then he should expect the other four to target Louisville for the SEC's next member.