Yea, it's junk, no doubt, but as you know bama players put themselves in this position, being scamed by con artist is never a good thing. nothing will come of it at the end of the day.

irondoc wrote: You know my take. It's junk.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Well, I always liked G/tech too. Rambling wreck from G/tech. well anyway. A ?, do you believe deer antler velvet works, yes or no.

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/889 7280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use- product

"They want to win," he said. "After the games they said they couldn't believe how they weren't tired and how much energy they had."

Well, name the players then, that is what I thought, you cannot name them. They had a Deer Antler spray seller on and he said this was the busiest order week he has ever had, you must be on the phone right now since you are a true believer in Deer antler spray. You did see the dog on the deer antler eating program, you seemed to believe that.

Does this silly post make you feel better?  You take the bait every time.  The seller said it was 20 different players.  Not me.

Yes, the silly post makes me feel better, I would not post something that would make me feel bad. See, you have taken the bait not me, you believe deer antler velvet made bama football players bigger,stronger, and faster, you are the bait taker not me. You are the true believer in deer antler velvet, not me. Again it seems you guys want the ncaa drop in and punish schools over deer antler velvet, when the stuff does not work, because their is no medical way for ICF I can be accepted by the body by a oral spray.

See look you ramble like an idiot.  Keep your head up your ass it seems to do you well.

---------------------------------------------

True. I wonder If this could be a smoke screen to divert attention from other possible PED usage? Like Mcguire and andro in 98.
---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Yea, it's junk, no doubt, but as you know bama players put themselves in this position, being scamed by con artist is never a good thing. nothing will come of it at the end of the day.

irondoc wrote: You know my take. It's junk.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Well, I always liked G/tech too. Rambling wreck from G/tech. well anyway. A ?, do you believe deer antler velvet works, yes or no.

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/889 7280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use- product

"They want to win," he said. "After the games they said they couldn't believe how they weren't tired and how much energy they had."

Well, name the players then, that is what I thought, you cannot name them. They had a Deer Antler spray seller on and he said this was the busiest order week he has ever had, you must be on the phone right now since you are a true believer in Deer antler spray. You did see the dog on the deer antler eating program, you seemed to believe that.

Does this silly post make you feel better?  You take the bait every time.  The seller said it was 20 different players.  Not me.

Yes, the silly post makes me feel better, I would not post something that would make me feel bad. See, you have taken the bait not me, you believe deer antler velvet made bama football players bigger,stronger, and faster, you are the bait taker not me. You are the true believer in deer antler velvet, not me. Again it seems you guys want the ncaa drop in and punish schools over deer antler velvet, when the stuff does not work, because their is no medical way for ICF I can be accepted by the body by a oral spray.

See look you ramble like an idiot.  Keep your head up your ass it seems to do you well.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

I don't think so. I doubt SI.com would play along with a cover up or smoke screen.

irondoc wrote:
True. I wonder If this could be a smoke screen to divert attention from other possible PED usage? Like Mcguire and andro in 98.
---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Yea, it's junk, no doubt, but as you know bama players put themselves in this position, being scamed by con artist is never a good thing. nothing will come of it at the end of the day.

irondoc wrote: You know my take. It's junk.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Well, I always liked G/tech too. Rambling wreck from G/tech. well anyway. A ?, do you believe deer antler velvet works, yes or no.

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/889 7280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use- product

"They want to win," he said. "After the games they said they couldn't believe how they weren't tired and how much energy they had."

Well, name the players then, that is what I thought, you cannot name them. They had a Deer Antler spray seller on and he said this was the busiest order week he has ever had, you must be on the phone right now since you are a true believer in Deer antler spray. You did see the dog on the deer antler eating program, you seemed to believe that.

Does this silly post make you feel better?  You take the bait every time.  The seller said it was 20 different players.  Not me.

Yes, the silly post makes me feel better, I would not post something that would make me feel bad. See, you have taken the bait not me, you believe deer antler velvet made bama football players bigger,stronger, and faster, you are the bait taker not me. You are the true believer in deer antler velvet, not me. Again it seems you guys want the ncaa drop in and punish schools over deer antler velvet, when the stuff does not work, because their is no medical way for ICF I can be accepted by the body by a oral spray.

See look you ramble like an idiot.  Keep your head up your ass it seems to do you well.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

They could certainly do so unwittingly.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

I don't think so. I doubt SI.com would play along with a cover up or smoke screen.

irondoc wrote:
True. I wonder If this could be a smoke screen to divert attention from other possible PED usage? Like Mcguire and andro in 98.
---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Yea, it's junk, no doubt, but as you know bama players put themselves in this position, being scamed by con artist is never a good thing. nothing will come of it at the end of the day.

irondoc wrote: You know my take. It's junk.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Well, I always liked G/tech too. Rambling wreck from G/tech. well anyway. A ?, do you believe deer antler velvet works, yes or no.

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/889 7280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use- product

"They want to win," he said. "After the games they said they couldn't believe how they weren't tired and how much energy they had."

Well, name the players then, that is what I thought, you cannot name them. They had a Deer Antler spray seller on and he said this was the busiest order week he has ever had, you must be on the phone right now since you are a true believer in Deer antler spray. You did see the dog on the deer antler eating program, you seemed to believe that.

Does this silly post make you feel better?  You take the bait every time.  The seller said it was 20 different players.  Not me.

Yes, the silly post makes me feel better, I would not post something that would make me feel bad. See, you have taken the bait not me, you believe deer antler velvet made bama football players bigger,stronger, and faster, you are the bait taker not me. You are the true believer in deer antler velvet, not me. Again it seems you guys want the ncaa drop in and punish schools over deer antler velvet, when the stuff does not work, because their is no medical way for ICF I can be accepted by the body by a oral spray.

See look you ramble like an idiot.  Keep your head up your ass it seems to do you well.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

TheOhioArsenal wrote: They could certainly do so unwittingly.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

I don't think so. I doubt SI.com would play along with a cover up or smoke screen.

irondoc wrote:
True. I wonder If this could be a smoke screen to divert attention from other possible PED usage? Like Mcguire and andro in 98.
---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Yea, it's junk, no doubt, but as you know bama players put themselves in this position, being scamed by con artist is never a good thing. nothing will come of it at the end of the day.

irondoc wrote: You know my take. It's junk.

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

Well, I always liked G/tech too. Rambling wreck from G/tech. well anyway. A ?, do you believe deer antler velvet works, yes or no.

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote:

34011 wrote:

Stratbuck wrote: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/889 7280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use- product

"They want to win," he said. "After the games they said they couldn't believe how they weren't tired and how much energy they had."

Well, name the players then, that is what I thought, you cannot name them. They had a Deer Antler spray seller on and he said this was the busiest order week he has ever had, you must be on the phone right now since you are a true believer in Deer antler spray. You did see the dog on the deer antler eating program, you seemed to believe that.

Does this silly post make you feel better?  You take the bait every time.  The seller said it was 20 different players.  Not me.

Yes, the silly post makes me feel better, I would not post something that would make me feel bad. See, you have taken the bait not me, you believe deer antler velvet made bama football players bigger,stronger, and faster, you are the bait taker not me. You are the true believer in deer antler velvet, not me. Again it seems you guys want the ncaa drop in and punish schools over deer antler velvet, when the stuff does not work, because their is no medical way for ICF I can be accepted by the body by a oral spray.

See look you ramble like an idiot.  Keep your head up your ass it seems to do you well.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

The con artist got scammed by SI.com. They believed SI.com was going to attack the NFL on why their products are banned from the nfl, well, what happened is SI.com attacked and outed the players using his products, not the way mitch ross had planned it. I will say, deer antler gate will go down as a huge joke on SI.com. I am still amazed they ran with the story, really. Deer antler spray is junk. I believe SI.com actually double crossed the Deer antler guys.

irondoc wrote: It's garbage. Did you ever hear of a placebo affect? Or the new sneaker affect. 7 year old gets new sneakers and he runs " faster ".
I've been around top strength athletes for a long time . Louie Simmons and his crowd. Dave Tate. World record setters. I know what works . This stuff is silly. As is crossfit .
Test , dianabol , anadrol 50, winstrol deca are huge in lifting. I've seen hundreds of guys use it. Sorry, forgot to say dude there.

---------------------------------------------
--- rbltc27 wrote:


False. Seen it work first hand. Huge for Cross Fit
--------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

No offense, but you and your buddies are probably the type that wear those metal bracelets because you think it helps balance your ions or whatever  

From the ESPN article:

However, a professor at Johns Hopkins University told the Baltimore Sun that, despite SWATS' claims, there isn't an acceptable scientific way that IGF-1 can be effectively delivered orally. 

"If there were, a lot of people would be happy that they don't need to get shots anymore," Dr. Roberto Salvatori told the newspaper. "It's just simply not possible for it to come from a spray."


You guys need to get a refund, and stay away from the snake oil salesmen.

rbltc27 wrote: Gotta be honest, I have a few buddies on it and it works wonders. They started doing it after they looked it up when the Raiders HC got caught marketing it.

Not trying to blast Bama (lots of players on lots of teams are doing it), but if you think it doesn't have a big effect, you either are uneducated on the substance, or your defending your team.

---------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

I'm not surprised we have football players that are dumb enough to believe that trailer-made deer spray is actually going to work. Or that it can stop cell phone waves, lol.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

You've been around strength athletes for a long time and you think Crossfit is a silly?

Why?

I don't know a lot about you but the only people I know who make fun of Crossfit are body builders or power lifters who have never done it and like to make fun of everyone in the gym who is not as big as them. Not saying that's you but that's what I've encountered so far.

Isn't it just powerlifting and cardio and gymnastics combined?

Why is that "silly"

Yeah let's blame it on the con artist guys.....not the cheaters on Alabama looking for a competitive edge on the field like thier POS head coach Nick Saban oversiging off the field.

PEDS + Oversiging ===== Alabama.

30 for 30 - JUICED! (How Nick Saban ruled college football)

Bama.............straight-up JUICED......props

If you don't see the problem with combining what you listed for everyone in some random way , then there's no reason to explain it. It's not difficult to lift, work on mobility and flexibility , and add a little cardio training.
It's also easy to hurt people with organized fitness randomness . Crossfit is good for this. Getting hurt I mean. Pukie the clown? Rhabdo man? They've gotten much bad press from fitness and health professionals for their idiotic approaches.
Yes , people get hurt in gyms, but when you see a Great amount of people with overuse and traumatic injuries in a " corporate brand name " situation you get people like me who will my recommend stuff.
Can you assess someone's movement ? Possible mechanical issues? Guide people in exercise according to their physical issues and needs ? I can . Friends of mine can like Eric Cressey. John Sullivan. Louis Simmons. The Ladewskis. Dave Tate.
Most crossfit trainers can't . And btw, gymnastics is one of the most dangerous sports out there. It's not something even at the basic level that someone everyone should be doing .
---------------------------------------------
--- ChiTownOSUnut wrote:

irondoc wrote: It's garbage. Did you ever hear of a placebo affect? Or the new sneaker affect. 7 year old gets new sneakers and he runs " faster ".
I've been around top strength athletes for a long time . Louie Simmons and his crowd. Dave Tate. World record setters. I know what works . This stuff is silly. As is crossfit .
Test , dianabol , anadrol 50, winstrol deca are huge in lifting. I've seen hundreds of guys use it. Sorry, forgot to say dude there.

---------------------------------------------
--- rbltc27 wrote:


False. Seen it work first hand. Huge for Cross Fit
--------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

No offense, but you and your buddies are probably the type that wear those metal bracelets because you think it helps balance your ions or whatever  

From the ESPN article:

However, a professor at Johns Hopkins University told the Baltimore Sun that, despite SWATS' claims, there isn't an acceptable scientific way that IGF-1 can be effectively delivered orally. 

"If there were, a lot of people would be happy that they don't need to get shots anymore," Dr. Roberto Salvatori told the newspaper. "It's just simply not possible for it to come from a spray."


You guys need to get a refund, and stay away from the snake oil salesmen.

rbltc27 wrote: Gotta be honest, I have a few buddies on it and it works wonders. They started doing it after they looked it up when the Raiders HC got caught marketing it.

Not trying to blast Bama (lots of players on lots of teams are doing it), but if you think it doesn't have a big effect, you either are uneducated on the substance, or your defending your team.

---------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

I'm not surprised we have football players that are dumb enough to believe that trailer-made deer spray is actually going to work. Or that it can stop cell phone waves, lol.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

You've been around strength athletes for a long time and you think Crossfit is a silly?

Why?

I don't know a lot about you but the only people I know who make fun of Crossfit are body builders or power lifters who have never done it and like to make fun of everyone in the gym who is not as big as them. Not saying that's you but that's what I've encountered so far.

Isn't it just powerlifting and cardio and gymnastics combined?

Why is that "silly"

---------------------------------------------

Irondoc, I always like reading your perspective on things. If you don't mind I would like to know if you think it is possible for the athletes we see today to have built themselves up to these enormous sizes solely through dedication to training and proper nutrition + legal supplements? (I also wonder about some of the Big 3 lift numbers we hear about on television during games.)

---------------------------------------------
--- TheOhioArsenal wrote:

Irondoc, I always like reading your perspective on things. If you don't mind I would like to know if you think it is possible for the athletes we see today to have built themselves up to these enormous sizes solely through dedication to training and proper nutrition + legal supplements? (I also wonder about some of the Big 3 lift numbers we hear about on television during games.)

---------------------------------------------

1. It's possible, but people do use. 2. The numbers are almost always greatly exaggerated . No one on Bama is doing a legitimate 600 lb raw touch and go bench ( no pause, feet and butt on bunch, no spotter help). 500 is very doubtful . 450 is starting to get probable. Even 400 lb benches are not that common in D1. By not that common I mean not 20 people on the team. Maybe 5, 10 or so. Just my estimate .

Thank you

---------------------------------------------
--- TheOhioArsenal wrote:

Thank you

---------------------------------------------

Very welcome . Some of this stuff is educated guesswork but I would say it's close.

irondoc wrote:
If you don't see the problem with combining what you listed for everyone in some random way , then there's no reason to explain it. It's not difficult to lift, work on mobility and flexibility , and add a little cardio training.
It's also easy to hurt people with organized fitness randomness . Crossfit is good for this. Getting hurt I mean. Pukie the clown? Rhabdo man? They've gotten much bad press from fitness and health professionals for their idiotic approaches.
Yes , people get hurt in gyms, but when you see a Great amount of people with overuse and traumatic injuries in a " corporate brand name " situation you get people like me who will my recommend stuff.
Can you assess someone's movement ? Possible mechanical issues? Guide people in exercise according to their physical issues and needs ? I can . Friends of mine can like Eric Cressey. John Sullivan. Louis Simmons. The Ladewskis. Dave Tate.
Most crossfit trainers can't . And btw, gymnastics is one of the most dangerous sports out there. It's not something even at the basic level that someone everyone should be doing .
---------------------------------------------
--- ChiTownOSUnut wrote:

irondoc wrote: It's garbage. Did you ever hear of a placebo affect? Or the new sneaker affect. 7 year old gets new sneakers and he runs " faster ".
I've been around top strength athletes for a long time . Louie Simmons and his crowd. Dave Tate. World record setters. I know what works . This stuff is silly. As is crossfit .
Test , dianabol , anadrol 50, winstrol deca are huge in lifting. I've seen hundreds of guys use it. Sorry, forgot to say dude there.

---------------------------------------------
--- rbltc27 wrote:


False. Seen it work first hand. Huge for Cross Fit
--------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

No offense, but you and your buddies are probably the type that wear those metal bracelets because you think it helps balance your ions or whatever  

From the ESPN article:

However, a professor at Johns Hopkins University told the Baltimore Sun that, despite SWATS' claims, there isn't an acceptable scientific way that IGF-1 can be effectively delivered orally. 

"If there were, a lot of people would be happy that they don't need to get shots anymore," Dr. Roberto Salvatori told the newspaper. "It's just simply not possible for it to come from a spray."


You guys need to get a refund, and stay away from the snake oil salesmen.

rbltc27 wrote: Gotta be honest, I have a few buddies on it and it works wonders. They started doing it after they looked it up when the Raiders HC got caught marketing it.

Not trying to blast Bama (lots of players on lots of teams are doing it), but if you think it doesn't have a big effect, you either are uneducated on the substance, or your defending your team.

---------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

I'm not surprised we have football players that are dumb enough to believe that trailer-made deer spray is actually going to work. Or that it can stop cell phone waves, lol.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

You've been around strength athletes for a long time and you think Crossfit is a silly?

Why?

I don't know a lot about you but the only people I know who make fun of Crossfit are body builders or power lifters who have never done it and like to make fun of everyone in the gym who is not as big as them. Not saying that's you but that's what I've encountered so far.

Isn't it just powerlifting and cardio and gymnastics combined?

Why is that "silly"

---------------------------------------------

I respect your opinion and I'm glad to see it's based on saftey.

And if you're looking at only the extreme or poorly coached situations, then yes, it's silly. Totally agree.

But what isn't?

I personally know people who have had life changing injuries from just about every format of fitness/strength training. All of them did the things you say shouldn't be combined in singularity and still got hurt.

One guy has had three hernia operations from bodybuilding, another has had his knee replaced from running (triathlons specifically), and just met a girl who is having a disc repaired from gymnastics. The two guys have told me crossfit looks stupid by the way.

I don't think their injuries make those pursuits inherently silly.

In fact I would say most of the hardcore strength training gyms I've been in/around have much more dangerous activites than what's going on at a crossfit gym. Especially when you start adding the stuff this thread was all about into the mix. Not going to say if my one buddy might have had that in the mix as well but he was proud that his doctor told him it's not safe to put that much strain on your heart.......

The big problem I had with crossfit was it's randomness combined with safety . Injuries can happen. Not a huge fan of triathlon either btw. And I've worked on the medical staff of six Ironman races . Four Hawaii world championships , two lake placid qualifiers .
Here's the issue anyone can powerlift.. Or body build. It's at the high levels were it gets sketchy. Better you are, the more careful and prepared you need to be. It's a matter of a few factors.
Someone can enter a lifting meet and do each lift with 45 lbs . Not much at all . An Ironman full race is 140.6 miles. An olympic distance is around 30 some . The distance will cause many people to get hurt. Do it if you like, but know the risks .
It's the same as powerlifting . I Deadlift over 600 lbs as a master lifter at 198. Roughly top 75 in the country and top 10-15 masters. I've been hurt but have minimized injuries with good practices . ( this is beyond a post, more like books).
But for crossfit you have the random aspect with beginners who want to get "fit" or " get in shape" which can mean different things . I define fitness as they ability to do a task . Example , years ago I was cycling for aerobic fitness with lighter lifting . My Resting pulse rate was 45. With about a 450 Deadlift /squat , 275 lb bench.
That pulse rate was lower than most ironman competitors. But there was no way I was doing an ironman race.
So if you get out of shape beginners getting into crossfit , disasters often happen. The problem for crossfit is that it comes back to them due to the brand name. You get the business from the fame , you also get the criticism from it .
---------------------------------------------
--- ChiTownOSUnut wrote:

irondoc wrote:
If you don't see the problem with combining what you listed for everyone in some random way , then there's no reason to explain it. It's not difficult to lift, work on mobility and flexibility , and add a little cardio training.
It's also easy to hurt people with organized fitness randomness . Crossfit is good for this. Getting hurt I mean. Pukie the clown? Rhabdo man? They've gotten much bad press from fitness and health professionals for their idiotic approaches.
Yes , people get hurt in gyms, but when you see a Great amount of people with overuse and traumatic injuries in a " corporate brand name " situation you get people like me who will my recommend stuff.
Can you assess someone's movement ? Possible mechanical issues? Guide people in exercise according to their physical issues and needs ? I can . Friends of mine can like Eric Cressey. John Sullivan. Louis Simmons. The Ladewskis. Dave Tate.
Most crossfit trainers can't . And btw, gymnastics is one of the most dangerous sports out there. It's not something even at the basic level that someone everyone should be doing .
---------------------------------------------
--- ChiTownOSUnut wrote:

irondoc wrote: It's garbage. Did you ever hear of a placebo affect? Or the new sneaker affect. 7 year old gets new sneakers and he runs " faster ".
I've been around top strength athletes for a long time . Louie Simmons and his crowd. Dave Tate. World record setters. I know what works . This stuff is silly. As is crossfit .
Test , dianabol , anadrol 50, winstrol deca are huge in lifting. I've seen hundreds of guys use it. Sorry, forgot to say dude there.

---------------------------------------------
--- rbltc27 wrote:


False. Seen it work first hand. Huge for Cross Fit
--------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

No offense, but you and your buddies are probably the type that wear those metal bracelets because you think it helps balance your ions or whatever  

From the ESPN article:

However, a professor at Johns Hopkins University told the Baltimore Sun that, despite SWATS' claims, there isn't an acceptable scientific way that IGF-1 can be effectively delivered orally. 

"If there were, a lot of people would be happy that they don't need to get shots anymore," Dr. Roberto Salvatori told the newspaper. "It's just simply not possible for it to come from a spray."


You guys need to get a refund, and stay away from the snake oil salesmen.

rbltc27 wrote: Gotta be honest, I have a few buddies on it and it works wonders. They started doing it after they looked it up when the Raiders HC got caught marketing it.

Not trying to blast Bama (lots of players on lots of teams are doing it), but if you think it doesn't have a big effect, you either are uneducated on the substance, or your defending your team.

---------------------------------------------
--- JPdub wrote:

I'm not surprised we have football players that are dumb enough to believe that trailer-made deer spray is actually going to work. Or that it can stop cell phone waves, lol.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

You've been around strength athletes for a long time and you think Crossfit is a silly?

Why?

I don't know a lot about you but the only people I know who make fun of Crossfit are body builders or power lifters who have never done it and like to make fun of everyone in the gym who is not as big as them. Not saying that's you but that's what I've encountered so far.

Isn't it just powerlifting and cardio and gymnastics combined?

Why is that "silly"

---------------------------------------------

I respect your opinion and I'm glad to see it's based on saftey.

And if you're looking at only the extreme or poorly coached situations, then yes, it's silly. Totally agree.

But what isn't?

I personally know people who have had life changing injuries from just about every format of fitness/strength training. All of them did the things you say shouldn't be combined in singularity and still got hurt.

One guy has had three hernia operations from bodybuilding, another has had his knee replaced from running (triathlons specifically), and just met a girl who is having a disc repaired from gymnastics. The two guys have told me crossfit looks stupid by the way.

I don't think their injuries make those pursuits inherently silly.

In fact I would say most of the hardcore strength training gyms I've been in/around have much more dangerous activites than what's going on at a crossfit gym. Especially when you start adding the stuff this thread was all about into the mix. Not going to say if my one buddy might have had that in the mix as well but he was proud that his doctor told him it's not safe to put that much strain on your heart.......

---------------------------------------------

irondoc wrote: The big problem I had with crossfit was it's randomness combined with safety . Injuries can happen. Not a huge fan of triathlon either btw. And I've worked on the medical staff of six Ironman races . Four Hawaii world championships , two lake placid qualifiers .
Here's the issue anyone can powerlift.. Or body build. It's at the high levels were it gets sketchy. Better you are, the more careful and prepared you need to be. It's a matter of a few factors.
Someone can enter a lifting meet and do each lift with 45 lbs . Not much at all . An Ironman full race is 140.6 miles. An olympic distance is around 30 some . The distance will cause many people to get hurt. Do it if you like, but know the risks .
It's the same as powerlifting . I Deadlift over 600 lbs as a master lifter at 198. Roughly top 75 in the country and top 10-15 masters. I've been hurt but have minimized injuries with good practices . ( this is beyond a post, more like books).
But for crossfit you have the random aspect with beginners who want to get "fit" or " get in shape" which can mean different things . I define fitness as they ability to do a task . Example , years ago I was cycling for aerobic fitness with lighter lifting . My Resting pulse rate was 45. With about a 450 Deadlift /squat , 275 lb bench.
That pulse rate was lower than most ironman competitors. But there was no way I was doing an ironman race.
So if you get out of shape beginners getting into crossfit , disasters often happen. The problem for crossfit is that it comes back to them due to the brand name. You get the business from the fame , you also get the criticism from it .
---------------------------------------------
--- ChiTownOSUnut wrote:

Makes sense, especially the part about the brand name drawing the attention to the bad apples. 

I still say that your real issue with it is bad coaching or over-agressive beginers and not the methodolgy. Plenty of bad coaching everywhere. In fact, coaching is absent in the majority of other methodolgies, save gymnastics. Would you agree that only a small % of powerlifters are using a coach?

I'm not even in the same stratosphere as you but I've been doing basic body building and powerlifiting movements for 20 years with occasional tangents into endurance sports. I've seen many injuries in that space.  

Counter that with the last 12 months where I've been experimenting with crossfit. I've seen MORE attention to form, saftey, and coaching than I've seen in the last 12 years at most hardcore lifting gyms.

At the gym I found, no matter how "fit" you are, you must go through several weeks if not months of basic movements education. And you might stay in that phase for ever! You only move out after physical and even educational (read: form and nutrution) tests before you can workout with the main class. Coaches are collegiate ex-gymnasts, runners, a I believe a powerlfiter. Over the last few months they have set aside time at classes to talk about recovery time because they feel too many people are coming in too often and not getting enough sleep!

I have a feeling we are actually on the same page and I just got lucky to find the gym I did. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by how high the quality of coaching is at certain gyms.

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--- Jetmanlee wrote:

RJSimmons wrote: It looked like Bama was on a different physical level than ND. It doesn't surprise me.

So bama is more physical and big and strong because deer velvet spray two days before the title game, please..

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What is the likelihood that was the first time they cheated? "Ridin' Dirty"

irondoc wrote:
If you don't see the problem with combining what you listed for everyone in some random way , then there's no reason to explain it. It's not difficult to lift, work on mobility and flexibility , and add a little cardio training.
It's also easy to hurt people with organized fitness randomness . Crossfit is good for this. Getting hurt I mean. Pukie the clown? Rhabdo man? They've gotten much bad press from fitness and health professionals for their idiotic approaches.
Yes , people get hurt in gyms, but when you see a Great amount of people with overuse and traumatic injuries in a " corporate brand name " situation you get people like me who will my recommend stuff.
Can you assess someone's movement ? Possible mechanical issues? Guide people in exercise according to their physical issues and needs ? I can . Friends of mine can like Eric Cressey. John Sullivan. Louis Simmons. The Ladewskis. Dave Tate.
Most crossfit trainers can't . And btw, gymnastics is one of the most dangerous sports out there. It's not something even at the basic level that someone everyone should be doing .
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Couldn't agree more. When I hear about some of these workouts like P90X and Farrells, I'm surprised more people aren't injuring themselves. A friend of mine tore her ACL from one of those classes. They had her doing kick boxing stuff with kicks. She had no athletic resume to speak of. I couldn't believe it. There was another torn ACL from the group she was with. 
You can't just throw anyone into certain activities and expect them to succeed. 
Gymnastics is very dangerous and it puts a lot of stress on the joints.

Let's see, based on your vitriol, one or more of the following must be true:

1. You are a barn fan
2. A Bama guy must have taken your lunch money
3. You'll believe anything

Why the hate bro, it's very unbecoming of a gentleman. If anybody believes ground up deer antler in a spray enhances performance in any way, please hook up with a responsible adult who can help you with your money and your life's decisions. Only a damn fool would truly believe this.



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--- buckwild23 wrote:

Yeah let's blame it on the con artist guys.....not the cheaters on Alabama looking for a competitive edge on the field like thier POS head coach Nick Saban oversiging off the field.

PEDS + Oversiging ===== Alabama.

30 for 30 - JUICED! (How Nick Saban ruled college football)

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macdadbama wrote: Let's see, based on your vitriol, one or more of the following must be true:

1. You are a barn fan
2. A Bama guy must have taken your lunch money
3. You'll believe anything

Why the hate bro, it's very unbecoming of a gentleman. If anybody believes ground up deer antler in a spray enhances performance in any way, please hook up with a responsible adult who can help you with your money and your life's decisions. Only a damn fool would truly believe this.



---------------------------------------------
--- buckwild23 wrote:

Yeah let's blame it on the con artist guys.....not the cheaters on Alabama looking for a competitive edge on the field like thier POS head coach Nick Saban oversiging off the field.

PEDS + Oversiging ===== Alabama.

30 for 30 - JUICED! (How Nick Saban ruled college football)

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Again, go tell your uneducated players.  They are the ones snorting the stuff.