34011 wrote:

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

 

Well do you believe deer antler spray works, yes or no.

Question is......did the alabama players believe it did?

Say the bama players believe it works, do you believe deer antler velvet makes you bigger,stronger,faster. Seems you don't want to answer the ?, if you believe deer antler velvet works...

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

 

Well do you believe deer antler spray works, yes or no.

Question is......did the alabama players believe it did?

Say the bama players believe it works, do you believe deer antler velvet makes you bigger,stronger,faster. Seems you don't want to answer the ?, if you believe deer antler velvet works...

So the bama players use the deer velvet with the belief that it will enhance their performance and obviously not by the traditional methods of training. So the question is not whether or not there was an intent, the question will be how this falls into NCAA's definition of PED or related substances.

Doesn't matter if I think it is a PED or not. I don't use it, don't know enough about it and I'm not the one that will be determing if it is a PED.

34011 wrote:

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

 

Well do you believe deer antler spray works, yes or no.

Question is......did the alabama players believe it did?

Say the bama players believe it works, do you believe deer antler velvet makes you bigger,stronger,faster. Seems you don't want to answer the ?, if you believe deer antler velvet works...

So the bama players use the deer velvet with the belief that it will enhance their performance and obviously not by the traditional methods of training. So the question is not whether or not there was an intent, the question will be how this falls into NCAA's definition of PED or related substances.

Doesn't matter if I think it is a PED or not. I don't use it, don't know enough about it and I'm not the one that will be determing if it is a PED.

You know what that means in your rant, you know it is not a PED. Thank you for helping my point.

I know reading and comprehension is a struggle down where you come from but no need to continually prove it.

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote:

 

Well do you believe deer antler spray works, yes or no.

Question is......did the alabama players believe it did?

Say the bama players believe it works, do you believe deer antler velvet makes you bigger,stronger,faster. Seems you don't want to answer the ?, if you believe deer antler velvet works...

So the bama players use the deer velvet with the belief that it will enhance their performance and obviously not by the traditional methods of training. So the question is not whether or not there was an intent, the question will be how this falls into NCAA's definition of PED or related substances.

Doesn't matter if I think it is a PED or not. I don't use it, don't know enough about it and I'm not the one that will be determing if it is a PED.

You know what that means in your rant, you know it is not a PED. Thank you for helping my point.

I know reading and comprehension is a struggle down where you come from but no need to continually prove it.

scarlet71 wrote: Bama.......straight-up JUICED, they don't play

TheOhioArsenal wrote: You are correct. IGF-1(insulin growth factor1) is the active ingredient and it is banned by the PGA and the NFL thus the controversy with Singh, saying he took the spray for other reasons than competitive advantage not knowing the contents were banned and Ray Lewis denying the whole thing altogether. IGF-1 is produced naturally by the liver typically after only intense training, i.e. sprint workouts(HIIT), heavy lifts, fighting, wrestling not steady state cardio in other words. So you have to put in the work to get the benefits. It would come as no surprise to me considering the rewards of football stardom that these young men looking for an enhancement to their training efforts would be easy targets for this dubious antler spray huckster. But if they were suckers and the substance is in fact banned by the ncaa they have only themselves to blame (whether or not taking it orally works is immaterial.)

TheOhioArsenal wrote: You are correct. IGF-1(insulin growth factor1) is the active ingredient and it is banned by the PGA and the NFL thus the controversy with Singh, saying he took the spray for other reasons than competitive advantage not knowing the contents were banned and Ray Lewis denying the whole thing altogether. IGF-1 is produced naturally by the liver typically after only intense training, i.e. sprint workouts(HIIT), heavy lifts, fighting, wrestling not steady state cardio in other words. So you have to put in the work to get the benefits. It would come as no surprise to me considering the rewards of football stardom that these young men looking for an enhancement to their training efforts would be easy targets for this dubious antler spray huckster. But if they were suckers and the substance is in fact banned by the ncaa they have only themselves to blame (whether or not taking it orally works is immaterial.)

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Deer antler spray is claimed to contain Insulin Growth Factor 1 which I believe must be injected to be effective. The liver produces it naturally after growth hormone stimulation. The NFL and PGA consider IGF1 to be a banned PED. The ncaa banned HGH as a PED some time ago. I don't know the situation with IGF1. I am assuming it is banned as well. Note: anyone dabbling with this junk (antler spray)should be wary as high supplementation of IGF1 has been linked with several types of cancer. So in other words spraying it in your mouth probably doesn't work yet taking too much could kill you.

(Of course that hasn't stopped the FDA from banning it and bovine growth hormones from our dairy cows in this country but that's another topic all together.)

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

scarlet71 wrote: Bama.......straight-up JUICED, they don't play

Alright we have a true Deer Velvet Spray believer, we have a true believer. We now know who the con artist will go after...

---------------------------------------------

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Deer antler spray is claimed to contain Insulin Growth Factor 1 which I believe must be injected to be effective. The liver produces it naturally after growth hormone stimulation. The NFL and PGA consider IGF1 to be a banned PED. The ncaa banned HGH as a PED some time ago. I don't know the situation with IGF1. I am assuming it is banned as well. Note: anyone dabbling with this junk (antler spray)should be wary as high supplementation of IGF1 has been linked with several types of cancer. So in other words spraying it in your mouth probably doesn't work yet taking too much could kill you.

(Of course that hasn't stopped the FDA from banning it and bovine growth hormones from our dairy cows in this country but that's another topic all together.)

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

scarlet71 wrote: Bama.......straight-up JUICED, they don't play

Alright we have a true Deer Velvet Spray believer, we have a true believer. We now know who the con artist will go after...

---------------------------------------------

TheOhioArsenal wrote: You are correct. IGF-1(insulin growth factor1) is the active ingredient and it is banned by the PGA and the NFL thus the controversy with Singh, saying he took the spray for other reasons than competitive advantage not knowing the contents were banned and Ray Lewis denying the whole thing altogether. IGF-1 is produced naturally by the liver typically after only intense training, i.e. sprint workouts(HIIT), heavy lifts, fighting, wrestling not steady state cardio in other words. So you have to put in the work to get the benefits. It would come as no surprise to me considering the rewards of football stardom that these young men looking for an enhancement to their training efforts would be easy targets for this dubious antler spray huckster. But if they were suckers and the substance is in fact banned by the ncaa they have only themselves to blame (whether or not taking it orally works is immaterial.)

Well, you are wrong, no player or student can be punshied for PED's without a failed drug test to go with it. So, the ncaa really cannot do anything, bama is the only one's that can and I doubt they are going to punish players because some con artist sold them deer antler spray. 
  Do you know why the NCAA does not punish players unless they have a failed drug test to go along with it over ped's, I do. What is your thinking about that.

---------------------------------------------

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Can I infer that the ncaa drug testing lab does not differentiate between synthetic and naturally occuring IGF1? How then do they test for HGHi

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Deer antler spray is claimed to contain Insulin Growth Factor 1 which I believe must be injected to be effective. The liver produces it naturally after growth hormone stimulation. The NFL and PGA consider IGF1 to be a banned PED. The ncaa banned HGH as a PED some time ago. I don't know the situation with IGF1. I am assuming it is banned as well. Note: anyone dabbling with this junk (antler spray)should be wary as high supplementation of IGF1 has been linked with several types of cancer. So in other words spraying it in your mouth probably doesn't work yet taking too much could kill you.

(Of course that hasn't stopped the FDA from banning it and bovine growth hormones from our dairy cows in this country but that's another topic all together.)

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

scarlet71 wrote: Bama.......straight-up JUICED, they don't play

Alright we have a true Deer Velvet Spray believer, we have a true believer. We now know who the con artist will go after...

---------------------------------------------

THis is where SI.com double crossed the two anler dealers. The anler dealers tell anybody that will listen that you will not fail a drug test  using their spray because the ICF I is natural and not synthic ICF I and you must admit you cannot buy injectable ICF I at the GNC. That is their point which is a good one, IMO.

---------------------------------------------

2012-13 NCAA Banned Drugs

It is the student-athlete's responsibility to check with the appropriate or designated athletics staff before using any substance

The NCAA bans the following classes of drugs:
a. Stimulants
b. Anabolic Agents
c. Alcohol and Beta Blockers (banned for rifle only)
d. Diuretics and Other Masking Agents
e. Street Drugs
f. Peptide Hormones and Analogues
g. Anti-estrogens
h. Beta-2 Agonists

Note: Any substance chemically related to these classes is also banned.

The institution and the student-athlete shall be held accountable for all drugs within the banned drug class regardless of whether they have been specifically identified.

Drugs and Procedures Subject to Restrictions:
a. Blood Doping.
b. Local Anesthetics (under some conditions).
c. Manipulation of Urine Samples.
d. Beta-2 Agonists permitted only by prescription and inhalation.
e. Caffeine if concentrations in urine exceed 15 micrograms/ml.

NCAA Nutritional/Dietary Supplements Warning:
Before consuming any nutritional/dietary supplement product, review the product with the appropriate or designated athletics department staff!

• Dietary supplements are not well regulated and may cause a positive drug test result.
• Student-athletes have tested positive and lost their eligibility using dietary supplements.
• Many dietary supplements are contaminated with banned drugs not listed on the label.
• Any product containing a dietary supplement ingredient is taken at your own risk.

Note to Student-Athletes: There is no complete list of banned substances.
Do not rely on this list to rule out any supplement ingredient.
Check with your athletics department staff prior to using a supplement.

Some Examples of NCAA Banned Substances in Each Drug Class

Stimulants: amphetamine (Adderall); caffeine (guarana); cocaine; ephedrine; fenfluramine (Fen); methamphetamine; methylphenidate (Ritalin); phentermine (Phen); synephrine (bitter orange); methylhexaneamine, “bath salts” (mephedrone) etc. Exceptions: phenylephrine and pseudoephedrine are not banned.

Anabolic Agents (sometimes listed as a chemical formula, such as 3,6,17-androstenetrione): boldenone; clenbuterol; DHEA (7-Keto); nandrolone; stanozolol; testosterone; methasterone; androstenedione; norandrostenedione; methandienone; etiocholanolone; trenbolone; etc.

Alcohol and Beta Blockers (banned for rifle only): alcohol; atenolol; metoprolol; nadolol; pindolol; propranolol; timolol; etc.

Diuretics (water pills) and Other Masking Agents: bumetanide; chlorothiazide; furosemide; hydrochlorothiazide; probenecid; spironolactone (canrenone); triameterene; trichlormethiazide; etc.

Street Drugs: heroin; marijuana; tetrahydrocannabinol (THC); synthetic cannabinoids (eg. spice, K2, JWH-018, JWH-073)

Peptide Hormones and Analogues: growth hormone(hGH); human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG); erythropoietin (EPO); etc.

Anti-Estrogens: anastrozole; tamoxifen; formestane; 3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene(ATD), etc.

Beta-2 Agonists: bambuterol; formoterol; salbutamol; salmeterol; etc.

Any substance that is chemically related to the class, even if it is not listed as an example, is also banned!

addendum: HGH as a peptide hormone is screened by the ncaa at their sponsored championships at least once every five years though some sports have the screening every year. 

34011 wrote:Well that is the problem they do not test for HGH at all and neither does the NFL, they would need a blood test. Here is the real problem with that is that our food more than likely contains as much IGF I as three squirts from a Deer antler bottle. Also, they claim they have IGF I in their product does not mean they do. I believe Irondoc said if they shake the bottle twenty seconds before you use it, you destroy all the protein anyway.   Natural IGF I consentrate is 800 nanograms and sythetic IGF I is 333,333 nanograms a huge difference, I have the numbers right maybe the terms wrong on that but you see, the difference. How many PED's can you by at your local GNC, none that I know of. HGH and Roids you need to get from a doctor or a vet or a ped dealer and that is the truth.

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Can I infer that the ncaa drug testing lab does not differentiate between synthetic and naturally occuring IGF1? How then do they test for HGHi

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Deer antler spray is claimed to contain Insulin Growth Factor 1 which I believe must be injected to be effective. The liver produces it naturally after growth hormone stimulation. The NFL and PGA consider IGF1 to be a banned PED. The ncaa banned HGH as a PED some time ago. I don't know the situation with IGF1. I am assuming it is banned as well. Note: anyone dabbling with this junk (antler spray)should be wary as high supplementation of IGF1 has been linked with several types of cancer. So in other words spraying it in your mouth probably doesn't work yet taking too much could kill you.

(Of course that hasn't stopped the FDA from banning it and bovine growth hormones from our dairy cows in this country but that's another topic all together.)

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

scarlet71 wrote: Bama.......straight-up JUICED, they don't play

Alright we have a true Deer Velvet Spray believer, we have a true believer. We now know who the con artist will go after...

---------------------------------------------

THis is where SI.com double crossed the two anler dealers. The anler dealers tell anybody that will listen that you will not fail a drug test  using their spray because the ICF I is natural and not synthic ICF I and you must admit you cannot buy injectable ICF I at the GNC. That is their point which is a good one, IMO.

---------------------------------------------

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think the ncaa would like to pretend they (PEDs) are not a problem and are whistling in the dark on this subject and that includes all sports, in every conference and on every level the ncaa governs.

For clarification here is a list of banned substances directly from ncaa.org: (read the first line under the heading, it is pretty important)

2012-13 NCAA Banned Drugs

It is the student-athlete's responsibility to check with the appropriate or designated athletics staff before using any substance

The NCAA bans the following classes of drugs:
a. Stimulants
b. Anabolic Agents
c. Alcohol and Beta Blockers (banned for rifle only)
d. Diuretics and Other Masking Agents
e. Street Drugs
f. Peptide Hormones and Analogues
g. Anti-estrogens
h. Beta-2 Agonists

Note: Any substance chemically related to these classes is also banned.

The institution and the student-athlete shall be held accountable for all drugs within the banned drug class regardless of whether they have been specifically identified.

Drugs and Procedures Subject to Restrictions:
a. Blood Doping.
b. Local Anesthetics (under some conditions).
c. Manipulation of Urine Samples.
d. Beta-2 Agonists permitted only by prescription and inhalation.
e. Caffeine if concentrations in urine exceed 15 micrograms/ml.

NCAA Nutritional/Dietary Supplements Warning:
Before consuming any nutritional/dietary supplement product, review the product with the appropriate or designated athletics department staff!

• Dietary supplements are not well regulated and may cause a positive drug test result.
• Student-athletes have tested positive and lost their eligibility using dietary supplements.
• Many dietary supplements are contaminated with banned drugs not listed on the label.
• Any product containing a dietary supplement ingredient is taken at your own risk.

Note to Student-Athletes: There is no complete list of banned substances.
Do not rely on this list to rule out any supplement ingredient.
Check with your athletics department staff prior to using a supplement.

Some Examples of NCAA Banned Substances in Each Drug Class

Stimulants: amphetamine (Adderall); caffeine (guarana); cocaine; ephedrine; fenfluramine (Fen); methamphetamine; methylphenidate (Ritalin); phentermine (Phen); synephrine (bitter orange); methylhexaneamine, “bath salts” (mephedrone) etc. Exceptions: phenylephrine and pseudoephedrine are not banned.

Anabolic Agents (sometimes listed as a chemical formula, such as 3,6,17-androstenetrione): boldenone; clenbuterol; DHEA (7-Keto); nandrolone; stanozolol; testosterone; methasterone; androstenedione; norandrostenedione; methandienone; etiocholanolone; trenbolone; etc.

Alcohol and Beta Blockers (banned for rifle only): alcohol; atenolol; metoprolol; nadolol; pindolol; propranolol; timolol; etc.

Diuretics (water pills) and Other Masking Agents: bumetanide; chlorothiazide; furosemide; hydrochlorothiazide; probenecid; spironolactone (canrenone); triameterene; trichlormethiazide; etc.

Street Drugs: heroin; marijuana; tetrahydrocannabinol (THC); synthetic cannabinoids (eg. spice, K2, JWH-018, JWH-073)

Peptide Hormones and Analogues: growth hormone(hGH); human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG); erythropoietin (EPO); etc.

Anti-Estrogens: anastrozole; tamoxifen; formestane; 3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene(ATD), etc.

Beta-2 Agonists: bambuterol; formoterol; salbutamol; salmeterol; etc.

Any substance that is chemically related to the class, even if it is not listed as an example, is also banned!

addendum: HGH as a peptide hormone is screened by the ncaa at their sponsored championships at least once every five years though some sports have the screening every year. 

Last Updated: Jan 4, 2013

34011 wrote:Well that is the problem they do not test for HGH at all and neither does the NFL, they would need a blood test. Here is the real problem with that is that our food more than likely contains as much IGF I as three squirts from a Deer antler bottle. Also, they claim they have IGF I in their product does not mean they do. I believe Irondoc said if they shake the bottle twenty seconds before you use it, you destroy all the protein anyway.   Natural IGF I consentrate is 800 nanograms and sythetic IGF I is 333,333 nanograms a huge difference, I have the numbers right maybe the terms wrong on that but you see, the difference. How many PED's can you by at your local GNC, none that I know of. HGH and Roids you need to get from a doctor or a vet or a ped dealer and that is the truth.

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Can I infer that the ncaa drug testing lab does not differentiate between synthetic and naturally occuring IGF1? How then do they test for HGHi

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

TheOhioArsenal wrote: Deer antler spray is claimed to contain Insulin Growth Factor 1 which I believe must be injected to be effective. The liver produces it naturally after growth hormone stimulation. The NFL and PGA consider IGF1 to be a banned PED. The ncaa banned HGH as a PED some time ago. I don't know the situation with IGF1. I am assuming it is banned as well. Note: anyone dabbling with this junk (antler spray)should be wary as high supplementation of IGF1 has been linked with several types of cancer. So in other words spraying it in your mouth probably doesn't work yet taking too much could kill you.

(Of course that hasn't stopped the FDA from banning it and bovine growth hormones from our dairy cows in this country but that's another topic all together.)

---------------------------------------------
--- 34011 wrote:

scarlet71 wrote: Bama.......straight-up JUICED, they don't play

Alright we have a true Deer Velvet Spray believer, we have a true believer. We now know who the con artist will go after...

---------------------------------------------

THis is where SI.com double crossed the two anler dealers. The anler dealers tell anybody that will listen that you will not fail a drug test  using their spray because the ICF I is natural and not synthic ICF I and you must admit you cannot buy injectable ICF I at the GNC. That is their point which is a good one, IMO.

---------------------------------------------

34011 wrote: It is the student-athlete's responsibility to check with the appropriate or designated athletics staff before using any substance, well who is to say that did happen, unless you have proof that it did, you would have to assume it didn't. ---------------------------------------------

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote: It is the student-athlete's responsibility to check with the appropriate or designated athletics staff before using any substance, well who is to say that did happen, unless you have proof that it did, you would have to assume it didn't. ---------------------------------------------

Just took your questions and flipped it to be what every non-blinders wearing tide fan is asking. Now your questions make more sense to your opening sentance.

funat5pm wrote:

34011 wrote: It is the student-athlete's responsibility to check with the appropriate or designated athletics staff before using any substance, well who is to say that did happen, unless you have proof that it did, you would have to assume it didn't. ---------------------------------------------

Just took your questions and flipped it to be what every non-blinders wearing tide fan is asking. Now your questions make more sense to your opening sentance.