JBOSUfan1 wrote: Manziel by far is the better qb...the stats don't lie...and he did that against far superior competition...they are not in the same league as QBs...Miller is getting better...but Manziel will continue to improve and is already better and is a year younger being a Freshman while Miller was a Soph.
Manziel has had no off the field major problems so don't know where the dislike has come from for him.  Little cocky, sure, but he has every right to be w/ the way he dominated in the best conference by far in football.  Even Nick Saban and Alabama had no answer for him.

JBOSUfan1 wrote: Manziel by far is the better qb...the stats don't lie...and he did that against far superior competition...they are not in the same league as QBs...Miller is getting better...but Manziel will continue to improve and is already better and is a year younger being a Freshman while Miller was a Soph.
Manziel has had no off the field major problems so don't know where the dislike has come from for him.  Little cocky, sure, but he has every right to be w/ the way he dominated in the best conference by far in football.  Even Nick Saban and Alabama had no answer for him.

MissStateBuckeye wrote: please look at what QB's have done in Sumlin's system (same system used at Texas Tech under Leach)

the only difference is that this year it was done in the SEC

truebuckeye99 wrote: Isn't Braxton Miller working out of a "system?" I dont remember the Buckeyes running the I at all. The spread that Urban uses is a system. Just by looking at the topic, I knew the responses here would be embarrassing.

BuckinDayton wrote: I think we both know why it is given credence now, it was done in the S-E-C!

It will be interesting to see how the DC's adjust.

narfa wrote: System QBs were always laughed at until this year, for whatever reason. Now the Air Raid is serious guys, like, for real. 

hidownthai95 wrote: I will readily admit I am a hater. I hate the offense TAMU runs because IMO its the receivers doing the majority of the work yet the media wants to jump on the QB band wagon and give him all the credit. there are a lot of passes to WRs behind the LOS where another WR makes a block and the receiver makes a guy miss. boom 7-12 yards more if a LB doesnt get there fast enough or someone else misses a tackle. Im just not impressed from a QB play standpoint. I dont mean to belittle everything he does he is a good QB but I think his system won his heisman more than his actual abilities. if he does it again to the defenses in the sec then Ill eat a buffet of crow.

I think Braxton makes more offense using his own talent than does Manziel. So I voted Braxton

truebuckeye99 wrote: How bad of an NFL quarterback is Tim Tebow? Yet what kind of numbers did he put up in Urban Meyer's "system?" You act like the "system" does it all for A&M, but nothing under Urban Meyer. And despite the arguments to the contrary, the Buckeyes' schedule was not like A&M's. What was the real tough "signature" win Miller produced? Nebraska? Michigan? Maybe 8-4 Penn State?

MissStateBuckeye wrote: please look at what QB's have done in Sumlin's system (same system used at Texas Tech under Leach)

the only difference is that this year it was done in the SEC

truebuckeye99 wrote: Isn't Braxton Miller working out of a "system?" I dont remember the Buckeyes running the I at all. The spread that Urban uses is a system. Just by looking at the topic, I knew the responses here would be embarrassing.

BuckinDayton wrote: I think we both know why it is given credence now, it was done in the S-E-C!

It will be interesting to see how the DC's adjust.

narfa wrote: System QBs were always laughed at until this year, for whatever reason. Now the Air Raid is serious guys, like, for real. 

hidownthai95 wrote: I will readily admit I am a hater. I hate the offense TAMU runs because IMO its the receivers doing the majority of the work yet the media wants to jump on the QB band wagon and give him all the credit. there are a lot of passes to WRs behind the LOS where another WR makes a block and the receiver makes a guy miss. boom 7-12 yards more if a LB doesnt get there fast enough or someone else misses a tackle. Im just not impressed from a QB play standpoint. I dont mean to belittle everything he does he is a good QB but I think his system won his heisman more than his actual abilities. if he does it again to the defenses in the sec then Ill eat a buffet of crow.

I think Braxton makes more offense using his own talent than does Manziel. So I voted Braxton

BuckinDayton wrote: Sumlin's QB's have put up over 5,000 yards of Total Offense the last 4-5 years. Keenum almost had 6,000 one year. 

Tebow's best year was 1,000 yards less. Are Keenum and Manziel, a RS freshmen, that much better than Tebow as college players?

Colt Brennan put up 5,900+ yards for June Jones at Hawaii one year. Is he 2,000 yards better than Tebow?

Putting aside who is or isn't a system QB, not all systems are not the same.

truebuckeye99 wrote: How bad of an NFL quarterback is Tim Tebow? Yet what kind of numbers did he put up in Urban Meyer's "system?" You act like the "system" does it all for A&M, but nothing under Urban Meyer. And despite the arguments to the contrary, the Buckeyes' schedule was not like A&M's. What was the real tough "signature" win Miller produced? Nebraska? Michigan? Maybe 8-4 Penn State?

MissStateBuckeye wrote: please look at what QB's have done in Sumlin's system (same system used at Texas Tech under Leach)

the only difference is that this year it was done in the SEC

truebuckeye99 wrote: Isn't Braxton Miller working out of a "system?" I dont remember the Buckeyes running the I at all. The spread that Urban uses is a system. Just by looking at the topic, I knew the responses here would be embarrassing.

BuckinDayton wrote: I think we both know why it is given credence now, it was done in the S-E-C!

It will be interesting to see how the DC's adjust.

narfa wrote: System QBs were always laughed at until this year, for whatever reason. Now the Air Raid is serious guys, like, for real. 

hidownthai95 wrote: I will readily admit I am a hater. I hate the offense TAMU runs because IMO its the receivers doing the majority of the work yet the media wants to jump on the QB band wagon and give him all the credit. there are a lot of passes to WRs behind the LOS where another WR makes a block and the receiver makes a guy miss. boom 7-12 yards more if a LB doesnt get there fast enough or someone else misses a tackle. Im just not impressed from a QB play standpoint. I dont mean to belittle everything he does he is a good QB but I think his system won his heisman more than his actual abilities. if he does it again to the defenses in the sec then Ill eat a buffet of crow.

I think Braxton makes more offense using his own talent than does Manziel. So I voted Braxton

Rankings

Last updated - May 29, 2012

USTFCCCA

Rank School Points Previous

1	Texas A&M	284.76	1
2	LSU	222.51	4
3	Arizona	220.2	6
4	Texas	219.5	5
5	Florida State	209.96	7
6	Florida	204.69	2

dragonfli wrote: Miller has better pro potential 

superman2424 wrote:

dragonfli wrote: Miller has better pro potential 

Do I watch a different game? What gives you that idea, Miller's 58% completion percentage this year in comparison to Manziel's 68%? Miller's passing tds vs Manziel's 29? Braxton Miller is a heck of an athlete and a darn good college QB, but his athleticism hides an average throwing arm.

ELMIKE2K10 wrote: 
The majority of Manziels passes were ding and donk passes where he would hit a WR or RB on a quick pattern which have to account for the high passing percentage. How many YAC are attributed to Manziels total yards? Miller seemed to throw the lower percentage deep ball more often. I agree Manziel is a more pollished QB as of right now who had better coaching up until last year than Miller, but give tOSU current coaching staff the same amount of time with Miller that Texas A&M's coaches has had with Manziel and see the results.

GlassCityBuckeye wrote: At this point Manziel has the qualities the NFL looks for in a QB, whereas Miller is an "athlete". There's a reason why running QB's don't last long in the NFL, or win many Superbowls for that matter.

While I see Manziel getting drafted as a QB, I think we'll see Miller utilized as something else.

superman2424 wrote:

ELMIKE2K10 wrote: 
The majority of Manziels passes were ding and donk passes where he would hit a WR or RB on a quick pattern which have to account for the high passing percentage. How many YAC are attributed to Manziels total yards? Miller seemed to throw the lower percentage deep ball more often. I agree Manziel is a more pollished QB as of right now who had better coaching up until last year than Miller, but give tOSU current coaching staff the same amount of time with Miller that Texas A&M's coaches has had with Manziel and see the results.

I think there's a legitimate discussion there.  I live in Ohio and saw Miller a lot in high school as well. His game has always been his legs and he has always struggled with accuracy.Could it have been due to lack of quality coachig at the position for him growing up? His past coaches could be accoused of going the easy route and relying too much on his athletic abilityIt has improved, but only marginally. After just one year with current coachesI think he's dynamic with his legs and an excellent decision maker, but I just can't see his throwing game elevated much above where it's at. I think he'll certainly go down as one of the all-time greats at OSU, but I don't think his game fits into the NFL at QB. As of right now no but lets see how he looks after his senoir year T Pryor got a job in the NFL and hes a worse throwing QB. He could certainly take giant leaps and prove me wrong, but I'm just a skeptic at this point. It will be interesting to see how he looks in the spring game now that hes been with the same coaches for over a year.

I also don't think you give Manziel enough credit. He threw down field plenty and to give most of the credit to his receivers seems to ignore facts in order to shape the reality you want as opposed to the one that happened. Have to disagree A&M'S offense is simular to the offenses of T Tech with the quick short throws though I not saying he didn't never throw down field. The one thing I will give Manziel is that he played great against Alabama which if we all agree is the only reason he won the heisman, he didn't look good against either LSU or Florida and did get fat off of a couple of FCS defenses not to mention he played LA Tech and a overrate Oklahoma Both are studs, but I can't see any argument that puts Miller as the better QB. As of right now Manziel is better but on lets see how the next 2 years play out.

SuwaneeDawg20 wrote: This will be debated at length next year. I fear we will have an overwhelming pick considering the board. Who will be the better college QB in 2013 and why?

truebuckeye99 wrote: Keenum and Brennan didn't do it in the SEC. Big, big difference.

BuckinDayton wrote: Sumlin's QB's have put up over 5,000 yards of Total Offense the last 4-5 years. Keenum almost had 6,000 one year. 

Tebow's best year was 1,000 yards less. Are Keenum and Manziel, a RS freshmen, that much better than Tebow as college players?

Colt Brennan put up 5,900+ yards for June Jones at Hawaii one year. Is he 2,000 yards better than Tebow?

Putting aside who is or isn't a system QB, not all systems are not the same.

truebuckeye99 wrote: How bad of an NFL quarterback is Tim Tebow? Yet what kind of numbers did he put up in Urban Meyer's "system?" You act like the "system" does it all for A&M, but nothing under Urban Meyer. And despite the arguments to the contrary, the Buckeyes' schedule was not like A&M's. What was the real tough "signature" win Miller produced? Nebraska? Michigan? Maybe 8-4 Penn State?

MissStateBuckeye wrote: please look at what QB's have done in Sumlin's system (same system used at Texas Tech under Leach)

the only difference is that this year it was done in the SEC

truebuckeye99 wrote: Isn't Braxton Miller working out of a "system?" I dont remember the Buckeyes running the I at all. The spread that Urban uses is a system. Just by looking at the topic, I knew the responses here would be embarrassing.

BuckinDayton wrote: I think we both know why it is given credence now, it was done in the S-E-C!

It will be interesting to see how the DC's adjust.

narfa wrote: System QBs were always laughed at until this year, for whatever reason. Now the Air Raid is serious guys, like, for real. 

hidownthai95 wrote: I will readily admit I am a hater. I hate the offense TAMU runs because IMO its the receivers doing the majority of the work yet the media wants to jump on the QB band wagon and give him all the credit. there are a lot of passes to WRs behind the LOS where another WR makes a block and the receiver makes a guy miss. boom 7-12 yards more if a LB doesnt get there fast enough or someone else misses a tackle. Im just not impressed from a QB play standpoint. I dont mean to belittle everything he does he is a good QB but I think his system won his heisman more than his actual abilities. if he does it again to the defenses in the sec then Ill eat a buffet of crow.

I think Braxton makes more offense using his own talent than does Manziel. So I voted Braxton

superman2424 wrote:

dragonfli wrote: Miller has better pro potential 

Do I watch a different game? What gives you that idea, Miller's 58% completion percentage this year in comparison to Manziel's 68%? Miller's passing tds vs Manziel's 29? Braxton Miller is a heck of an athlete and a darn good college QB, but his athleticism hides an average throwing arm.

BuckinDayton wrote: 
He has a very good arm, but accuracy is what he needs to work on.

Pryor completed 57% as a sophomore and 65% as a junior, so it's possible.