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RE: Braxton or Manziel?
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Posted: 1/27/2013 11:54 AM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
He has to be better and more consistent in 2013 if the team wants to go 13-0. SurfOhio wrote:
buckeyemark wrote: He probably would've lost to Purdue if not for injury! He also got a lot of help from defense v. Wisconsin, and in the 2nd half v. Michigan.
SurfOhio wrote: how many games did braxton lose last year? that's the mark of a good qb. Probably coulda woulda shoulda, BUT DIDN'T. good luck getting paid on coulda
someone said QB is about decision making? sometimes a qb that chooses to hold the ball and take a sack is better than a superstar that bombs a hail mary, I'll take a Craig Krenzel any day. |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:05 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
I think I voted for Braxton because I WISH it were true.
I hate how good Johnny Football is. It's like I don't want to believe it so I keep making up reasons why next year he'll collapse.
There really is no logical reason that I can say Braxton is better. It's based on hope of him getting better and somehow Johnny Football getting worse.
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:24 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
What he said. Miller makes moves that look like they're out of a video game. MissStateBuckeye wrote:
SuwaneeDawg20 wrote: 2013
Offensive Line: OSU
Easier schedule: OSU
Faster runner: Btaxton
More Elusive: Even, slight edge to Manziel
Accuracy: Manziel
WR Talent: Manziel
Running Game: OSU
Better Coach: OSU
Better season: Braxton no way in the world Manziel is more elusive than Braxton Miller...
Manziel is elusive... but Miller is unreal
I will say Manziel is in a more friendly system to put up better numbers and is a better passer |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:28 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
You're right. I always thought Krenzel was better than Marino. This is a FACT that can't be over-looked. JF to this point is BETTER than Braxton, people just need to suck it up and deal with it. It is not a crack on Braxton. I for one am very happy he is leading our team, he is a GREAT player, and I think he'll deliver us a title. And i am not sure why people are cracking on JF. Yeah he looks like Alfred E. Newman and wears one of the stupid flat billed hats, but he has done nothing wrong. When you were 19 and your parents were trying to kick you out of there house or trying to sniff glue in your dorm room, he is living the high life. He is a product of VERY wealthy parents and oh yeah, he's the most popular CFB player on the planet. I'd (and all of you) would be doing the same damned thing. SurfOhio wrote: how many games did braxton lose last year? that's the mark of a good qb. |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:35 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
I hate how some of you are acting like Miller was surrounded by a bunch of slouches on offense. It's an insult to his teammates. His o-line coach won o-line coach of the year. That doesn't happen because the o-line sucked. His running backs are fantastic. The receivers, although not great yet, are damn good and getting better. Meyer absolutely loves the tight ends. That's endorsement enough for me. Face the facts. We all love Miller and wouldn't trade him for anyone, but he is not as good as Manziel right now and has a ways to go to catch him. No excuses.
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:45 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
C'mon man...you have to be smarter than that. Nobody would rather NOT have the hardware, but football is a TEAM sport, always has and always will. There are plenty of GREAT QB's that have NOT won titles, while plenty of mediocre ones have. So let me use your argument against you...would you rather have Krenzel than Braxton or Manziel? Would you rather have Dilfer or Marino? Mark Rypien or Dan Fouts? SurfOhio wrote: krenzel won a national championship.
buckcherry wrote: You're right. I always thought Krenzel was better than Marino. This is a FACT that can't be over-looked.
JF to this point is BETTER than Braxton, people just need to suck it up and deal with it. It is not a crack on Braxton. I for one am very happy he is leading our team, he is a GREAT player, and I think he'll deliver us a title.
And i am not sure why people are cracking on JF. Yeah he looks like Alfred E. Newman and wears one of the stupid flat billed hats, but he has done nothing wrong.
When you were 19 and your parents were trying to kick you out of there house or trying to sniff glue in your dorm room, he is living the high life. He is a product of VERY wealthy parents and oh yeah, he's the most popular CFB player on the planet. I'd (and all of you) would be doing the same damned thing.
SurfOhio wrote: how many games did braxton lose last year? that's the mark of a good qb. |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 12:49 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
It's a team sport, but a big time school isn't going to let a manziel loose, AJ mccaron was kept on a tight reign.( I may take Krenzel, He knew how to win.) Manziel is put in a system that Guns it for QB's, like the Mauk boys that lit up Ohio High School football. add in the fact that AM is a top track school which is currently the defending National Champions, and you have no shortage of speed to throw to. Rankings Last updated - May 29, 2012 USTFCCCA Rank School Points Previous | 1 | Texas A&M | 284.76 | 1 | | 2 | LSU | 222.51 | 4 | | 3 | Arizona | 220.2 | 6 | | 4 | Texas | 219.5 | 5 | | 5 | Florida State | 209.96 | 7 | | 6 | Florida | 204.69 | 2 | buckcherry wrote: C'mon man...you have to be smarter than that. Nobody would rather NOT have the hardware, but football is a TEAM sport, always has and always will.
There are plenty of GREAT QB's that have NOT won titles, while plenty of mediocre ones have.
So let me use your argument against you...would you rather have Krenzel than Braxton or Manziel?
Would you rather have Dilfer or Marino? Mark Rypien or Dan Fouts?
SurfOhio wrote: krenzel won a national championship.
buckcherry wrote: You're right. I always thought Krenzel was better than Marino. This is a FACT that can't be over-looked.
JF to this point is BETTER than Braxton, people just need to suck it up and deal with it. It is not a crack on Braxton. I for one am very happy he is leading our team, he is a GREAT player, and I think he'll deliver us a title.
And i am not sure why people are cracking on JF. Yeah he looks like Alfred E. Newman and wears one of the stupid flat billed hats, but he has done nothing wrong.
When you were 19 and your parents were trying to kick you out of there house or trying to sniff glue in your dorm room, he is living the high life. He is a product of VERY wealthy parents and oh yeah, he's the most popular CFB player on the planet. I'd (and all of you) would be doing the same damned thing.
SurfOhio wrote: how many games did braxton lose last year? that's the mark of a good qb.
Last edited 1/27/2013 1:07 PM by SurfOhio
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Posted: 1/27/2013 1:48 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
Manziel was better this year, but I take Miller in the long run. Sky is the limit for Miller in terms of potential.
It's pretty obvious that Manziel is a polished thrower for being so young and plays within a great system. The major thing he has on Miller right now is his pocket presence which allows him to be a great scrambler and find guys downfield on broken plays. He's great at this and that seemed to be Miller's weak point this past year.
IMO though, Manziel compares to someone like Tebow, not in skillset, but in how their careers will play out. Tebow had an incredible first statistical season, and people assumed he was going to blow the doors off for the rest of his career. He remained an excellent player, but it became more and more apparent that he peaked earlier in his career and was not able to replicate what he had done as a sophomore as other teams adjusted.
Manziel just seems to be so polished so early in his career, it almost makes you wonder how he will be able to improve significantly over what he did this past season whereas Miller is just scratching the surface. |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 2:56 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
Manziel by far is the better qb...the stats don't lie...and he did that against far superior competition...they are not in the same league as QBs...Miller is getting better...but Manziel will continue to improve and is already better and is a year younger being a Freshman while Miller was a Soph.
Manziel has had no off the field major problems so don't know where the dislike has come from for him. Little cocky, sure, but he has every right to be w/ the way he dominated in the best conference by far in football. Even Nick Saban and Alabama had no answer for him.
A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.--Mohandas Gandhi
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Posted: 1/27/2013 3:23 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
As much as I hate to admit it, Manziel might be in a class of his own. The kid is a freshman and just torched people, both rushing and passing. The only thing is if the instant fame doesn't ruin him by causing him to lose focus.
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Posted: 1/27/2013 3:55 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
I didn't comment on Miller. truebuckeye99 wrote: Isn't Braxton Miller working out of a "system?" I dont remember the Buckeyes running the I at all. The spread that Urban uses is a system. Just by looking at the topic, I knew the responses here would be embarrassing.
BuckinDayton wrote: I think we both know why it is given credence now, it was done in the S-E-C!
It will be interesting to see how the DC's adjust.
narfa wrote: System QBs were always laughed at until this year, for whatever reason. Now the Air Raid is serious guys, like, for real.
hidownthai95 wrote: I will readily admit I am a hater. I hate the offense TAMU runs because IMO its the receivers doing the majority of the work yet the media wants to jump on the QB band wagon and give him all the credit. there are a lot of passes to WRs behind the LOS where another WR makes a block and the receiver makes a guy miss. boom 7-12 yards more if a LB doesnt get there fast enough or someone else misses a tackle. Im just not impressed from a QB play standpoint. I dont mean to belittle everything he does he is a good QB but I think his system won his heisman more than his actual abilities. if he does it again to the defenses in the sec then Ill eat a buffet of crow.
I think Braxton makes more offense using his own talent than does Manziel. So I voted Braxton |
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- OSU84
- All-American
- 4140 posts this site
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Posted: 1/27/2013 4:01 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
goehlers1 wrote: As much as I hate to admit it, Manziel might be in a class of his own. The kid is a freshman and just torched people, both rushing and passing. The only thing is if the instant fame doesn't ruin him by causing him to lose focus. He seems a little slight--- the listed 6'1" 200lbs, although not huge, seem generous. Hopefully he can avoid injury when rushing. __________________________________________________ No (more) conference expansion! |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 4:16 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
Sumlin's QB's Total Yards:
Manziel(2012): 5,116
Keenum(2011): 5,666
Keenum(2009): 5,829
Keenum(2008): 5,241
I'm not arguing that Manziel isn't better. But this is what Sumlin's QB's do. If some of you are basing it solely on stats, Miller will never match these. Tebow didn't match these. Cam Newton didn't match these. Vince Young didn't.
Last edited 1/27/2013 4:19 PM by BuckinDayton
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Posted: 1/27/2013 4:39 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
---------------------------------------------
--- BuckinDayton wrote:
Sumlin's QB's Total Yards:
Manziel(2012): 5,116
Keenum(2011): 5,666
Keenum(2009): 5,829
Keenum(2008): 5,241
I'm not arguing that Manziel isn't better. But this is what Sumlin's QB's do. If some of you are basing it solely on stats, Miller will never match these. Tebow didn't match these. Cam Newton didn't match these. Vince Young didn't.
---------------------------------------------
Keenum Rushing Stats
2008 - 221 yards
2009 - 158 yards
2010 - 71 yards
2011 - 35 yards
Manziel Rushing Stats
2012 - 1,410
Surely they didn't run the same exact system.
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Posted: 1/27/2013 5:01 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
SuwaneeDawg20 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- BuckinDayton wrote:
Sumlin's QB's Total Yards:
Manziel(2012): 5,116
Keenum(2011): 5,666
Keenum(2009): 5,829
Keenum(2008): 5,241
I'm not arguing that Manziel isn't better. But this is what Sumlin's QB's do. If some of you are basing it solely on stats, Miller will never match these. Tebow didn't match these. Cam Newton didn't match these. Vince Young didn't.
---------------------------------------------
Keenum Rushing Stats
2008 - 221 yards
2009 - 158 yards
2010 - 71 yards
2011 - 35 yards
Manziel Rushing Stats
2012 - 1,410
Surely they didn't run the same exact system. I'd imagine that Keenum wasn't the athlete that Manziel is. So they obviously added more designed runs. Manziel still ran 635 plays and attempted 434 passes. That is a lot in relation to the other players mentioned. |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 5:23 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
SuwaneeDawg20 wrote: Leach never had a team finish 11th in the nation in rushing. A&M was probably the most balanced team in the nation.
Considering Braxton can run circles around Manziel I'd say Manziel is more elusive than Braxton. He had 1400 yards rushing and isn't near as fast or quick as BM. Emmit Smith isn't as fast or quick as Barry Sanders and had more rushing yards... I'd say Barry Sanders was much more elusive Braxton Miller has moves I haven't seen since Barry Sanders - and no I'm not saying he's Barry Sanders... Just saying he has some very sick moves |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 5:26 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
BuckinDayton wrote:
SuwaneeDawg20 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- BuckinDayton wrote:
Sumlin's QB's Total Yards:
Manziel(2012): 5,116
Keenum(2011): 5,666
Keenum(2009): 5,829
Keenum(2008): 5,241
I'm not arguing that Manziel isn't better. But this is what Sumlin's QB's do. If some of you are basing it solely on stats, Miller will never match these. Tebow didn't match these. Cam Newton didn't match these. Vince Young didn't.
---------------------------------------------
Keenum Rushing Stats
2008 - 221 yards
2009 - 158 yards
2010 - 71 yards
2011 - 35 yards
Manziel Rushing Stats
2012 - 1,410
Surely they didn't run the same exact system. I'd imagine that Keenum wasn't the athlete that Manziel is. So they obviously added more designed runs.
Manziel still ran 635 plays and attempted 434 passes. That is a lot in relation to the other players mentioned. and he had over 200 rushes - thus he's the entire offense... that isn't the case at Ohio St |
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Posted: 1/27/2013 5:35 PM
RE: Braxton or Manziel?
Miller had 481 passes + rushes... Manziel had 635 passes + rushes
with nearly 154 more plays he should have much better numbers...
Manziel is a great player... but make no mistake - the system he runs is very very QB stat friendly
Last edited 1/27/2013 5:36 PM by MissStateBuckeye
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Posted: 1/27/2013 6:59 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
With Miller, other teams will try to take away his first option and play contain; based on film study, which shouldn't be as hard if they have good DLs and LBs as many top teams have. If Menziel were on tOSU team, other teams have to respect a deep threat and that would allow tOSU horses work their magic. Menziel could also take advantage of some open space in the middle by either chewing some 5-yard runs himself or some 3rd options that may be open. I believe this should give tOSU a nice clock control game and wearing down other teams' defense for the 1st half since the defense will have to try to cover the whole field. Then a huge running game could take effect in the 2nd half while Menziel could try to hit couple of home runs with his deep throw. If Miller happens to improve his accuracy this season, this team could very well cruise into the NC game.
For me, I will always take a QB with just accuracy and be able to deliver the ball with correct read over a QB with just super athlete with strong arm. Just my 2 cents.
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Posted: 1/27/2013 7:13 PM
Re: Braxton or Manziel?
Oh, after reading more of other people' opinions made me thought about a character of a player. I've never met Miller and known him personally, but it seems Miller is a very good young man with good character. Though I haven't met Menziel either, but he's on not-so-good news in terms of character. Call me an old school if you want, but I wouldn't want any trouble maker on my team if I were a college football coach. I believe that playing sport for a college you love is a privilege and should be valued. I may be wrong on this matter of character; I would love to have Miller as my QB as both skills and character are accounted for.
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