huskyhurler wrote:

Chidragon wrote: Yes, let's start with facts...  How many hundred phone calls / texts between Lyles and Kelly or RB Coach Campbell.  How many payments? 

A refresher: http://www.oregonlive.com/duck...s_to_willi.html

huskyhurler wrote:

TroySmithFan wrote:Oregon DID do something wrong when they paid a guy who was buddy buddy with recruits they were interested in and he encouraged them to go to Oregon.

This never happened. Even Lyles has said this never happened. Maybe one should know the facts before they speak as if they do.. Just saying..

And may I ask how numerous phone calls and texts relate to illegal payments? The University of Oregon Athletic Department wrote a check on their own checks and the payment was in their general ledger. If they thought they were doing something wrong, don't you think they would at least try to hide it? Rather than document it for all to see?

Granted, some violations occured, but for people to suggest the violations came anywhere near those at tOSU, simply does not know the facts of the case. And, are relying on nothing other than internet rumors..

ode2luke wrote: From the link we both have posted now it's pretty apparent that just about all of the expenses we've discussed are covered in the following line items. I deleted all the non-relevant stuff.

Budget Budget
2010-2011 2011-2012
EXPENSES
Video Supplies18,000 21,150
Postage35,000 35,000
Communications69,800 69,800
Recruiting484,000 438,500
Misc Travel129,500 129,500
Purchased Services85,250 85,250
Subscriptions2,200 2,200
Meals470,290 462,421
Lodging204,328 224,084

TroyKidd wrote:

huskyhurler wrote:

Chidragon wrote: Yes, let's start with facts...  How many hundred phone calls / texts between Lyles and Kelly or RB Coach Campbell.  How many payments? 

A refresher: http://www.oregonlive.com/duck...s_to_willi.html

huskyhurler wrote:

TroySmithFan wrote:Oregon DID do something wrong when they paid a guy who was buddy buddy with recruits they were interested in and he encouraged them to go to Oregon.

This never happened. Even Lyles has said this never happened. Maybe one should know the facts before they speak as if they do.. Just saying..

And may I ask how numerous phone calls and texts relate to illegal payments? The University of Oregon Athletic Department wrote a check on their own checks and the payment was in their general ledger. If they thought they were doing something wrong, don't you think they would at least try to hide it? Rather than document it for all to see?

Granted, some violations occured, but for people to suggest the violations came anywhere near those at tOSU, simply does not know the facts of the case. And, are relying on nothing other than internet rumors..

There are three damning assumptions people are making

1) There was a second payment due Lyles- This "payment" was to be a 2nd years subscription.

2) Lyles assisted Lache in getting paperwork etc done to allow him to go to Oregon- The paperwork was to enable Lache to attend the college of his choice. Being a minor, and basically estranged from his mother,  these papers were needed so Lache could choose the school of his choice and sign the LOI.His mother was trouble..

"With his father incarcerated for much of his life and his mother in and out of incarceration after numerous convictions ranging from delivery of cocaine to assault causing bodily injury, he was taken care of by family members, churches, coaches and other families in this Central Texas city of 66,100.

“We’ve basically raised that kid,” Bryce Monsen, Temple High School’s former football coach, who coached Seastrunk, told FOXSports.com last month.

3) Lache got some of the funds- No truth to this at all.

on 1)  Was this verified or is it just a myth?
on 2)  Was this for Oregon or was it for Lache reguardless of where he went (Did Lache KNOW he was going ONLY to Oregon when Lyles was helping him?)
on 3)  Of course they are assuming this.  There is ZERO proof.


I would expect the answer to #2 to be that it wasn't for Oregon.  Some of it was to get him transfered to another high school long before he committed to Oregon right?  Yet Oregon is to pay the price?

KMSbuck wrote: The lengths Lyles went to ensure Seastrunk to Oregon were clear violations. Lie. Getting him enrolled in a school that would get him qualified and getting his grandmother custody so she could sign his letter against his mother's wishes are just a few examples.  Nothing about Lache enrolling in another school or having his gmom sign his loi have anything to do with Oregon.  He needed those things to go to ANY school.

Then there are the handwritten notes from Kelly where he thanks Lyles for helping and admittting giving Seasrtunk vintage Nikes are all part of the violations.  Neither Kelly, Nike, nor Oregon gave Lache vintage Nikes.  That is a lie by your preposterous mouth.  If you find proof, I will pay you 1.5 times what your house is worth.

Providing an old "recruiting report" that included a player who had previously passed away after the NCAA started to ask questions is the icing on the cake. That is the only part of the cake, all of your other accusations are false.  If you have proof, we will all buy you a new car.  You can't just say things and make them true, they need links, peddler.

Just like Tressel was screwed because of an email trail-making plausible deniability impossible-Oregon is going down because they made a deal with Lyles for illegal services and when they screwed him out of promised payments, he provided a ton of evidence to the NCAA as a result. He is the smoking gun.

The SEC is much more adept at isolating their coaches from direct connection to payments to recruits and players.

And if you think Seastrunk was the only player from Texas to be funneled to Oregon illegally, I have a good deal on a bridge for you.  More lies from the lying liar of Hineygate.  We will all buy you a bridge if you can back up this whopper of a lie, big mac.

TroyKidd wrote:

ode2luke wrote: From the link we both have posted now it's pretty apparent that just about all of the expenses we've discussed are covered in the following line items. I deleted all the non-relevant stuff.

Budget Budget
2010-2011 2011-2012
EXPENSES
Video Supplies18,000 21,150
Postage35,000 35,000
Communications69,800 69,800
Recruiting484,000 438,500
Misc Travel129,500 129,500
Purchased Services85,250 85,250
Subscriptions2,200 2,200
Meals470,290 462,421
Lodging204,328 224,084

Humm this is just football?   There's the approx $450k in "recruiting"

Lodging, Travel and Meals have thier own lines?  So 450k "recruiting" doesn't include that?

ode2luke wrote: yes this is just the football budget broken out of the overall athletic budget

TroyKidd wrote:

ode2luke wrote: From the link we both have posted now it's pretty apparent that just about all of the expenses we've discussed are covered in the following line items. I deleted all the non-relevant stuff.

Budget Budget
2010-2011 2011-2012
EXPENSES
Video Supplies18,000 21,150
Postage35,000 35,000
Communications69,800 69,800
Recruiting484,000 438,500
Misc Travel129,500 129,500
Purchased Services85,250 85,250
Subscriptions2,200 2,200
Meals470,290 462,421
Lodging204,328 224,084

Humm this is just football?   There's the approx $450k in "recruiting"

Lodging, Travel and Meals have thier own lines?  So 450k "recruiting" doesn't include that?

buckeye9chuck wrote:

ode2luke wrote: yes this is just the football budget broken out of the overall athletic budget

TroyKidd wrote:

ode2luke wrote: From the link we both have posted now it's pretty apparent that just about all of the expenses we've discussed are covered in the following line items. I deleted all the non-relevant stuff.

Budget Budget
2010-2011 2011-2012
EXPENSES
Video Supplies18,000 21,150
Postage35,000 35,000
Communications69,800 69,800
Recruiting484,000 438,500
Misc Travel129,500 129,500
Purchased Services85,250 85,250
Subscriptions2,200 2,200
Meals470,290 462,421
Lodging204,328 224,084

Humm this is just football?   There's the approx $450k in "recruiting"

Lodging, Travel and Meals have thier own lines?  So 450k "recruiting" doesn't include that?

Really no way to know how this all breaks down,  of course.

TroyKidd wrote:

buckeye9chuck wrote:

ode2luke wrote: yes this is just the football budget broken out of the overall athletic budget

TroyKidd wrote:

ode2luke wrote: From the link we both have posted now it's pretty apparent that just about all of the expenses we've discussed are covered in the following line items. I deleted all the non-relevant stuff.

Budget Budget
2010-2011 2011-2012
EXPENSES
Video Supplies18,000 21,150
Postage35,000 35,000
Communications69,800 69,800
Recruiting484,000 438,500
Misc Travel129,500 129,500
Purchased Services85,250 85,250
Subscriptions2,200 2,200
Meals470,290 462,421
Lodging204,328 224,084

Humm this is just football?   There's the approx $450k in "recruiting"

Lodging, Travel and Meals have thier own lines?  So 450k "recruiting" doesn't include that?

Really no way to know how this all breaks down,  of course.

Nope
Not without more info 

Yahoo??? 
Not calling them to get tOSU here.  I'd MUCH prefer they look at any number of schools that are spending WAY more.

RipAndRattle wrote: "the recruiting" services was a coverup to pay lyles in convincing these texas kids to go to Oregon, and Chip Kelly lied about it.

They are going to get hit hard because of the lying and cover up

Paying for recruits is a much, much, much more serious violation than kids trading for tattoo's.  What Oregon and Kelly did is the same thing that Tressel did.

They get hit for BOTH.  Had Oregon and Kelly come clean with the Lyle mess they get what we got because of paying for recruits.  Add lying and covering up and its the daily double action.

huskyhurler wrote:

ILoveCleveland wrote: Oregon will get hit much harder by the NCAA than OSU, IMHO ..........

Wrong

BuckeyeRob wrote:

RipAndRattle wrote: "the recruiting" services was a coverup to pay lyles in convincing these texas kids to go to Oregon, and Chip Kelly lied about it.  You're saying Kelly should admit that's what they did?   Ha ha ha that's rich
 
They are going to get hit hard because of the lying and cover up

Paying for recruits is a much, much, much more serious violation than kids trading for tattoo's.  What Oregon and Kelly did is the same thing that Tressel did.

They get hit for BOTH.  Had Oregon and Kelly come clean with the Lyle mess they get what we got because of paying for recruits.  Add lying and covering up and its the daily double action.

TroyKidd wrote:

BuckeyeRob wrote:

RipAndRattle wrote: "the recruiting" services was a coverup to pay lyles in convincing these texas kids to go to Oregon, and Chip Kelly lied about it.  You're saying Kelly should admit that's what they did?   Ha ha ha that's rich
 
They are going to get hit hard because of the lying and cover up

Paying for recruits is a much, much, much more serious violation than kids trading for tattoo's.  What Oregon and Kelly did is the same thing that Tressel did.

They get hit for BOTH.  Had Oregon and Kelly come clean with the Lyle mess they get what we got because of paying for recruits.  Add lying and covering up and its the daily double action.

Oregon didn't lie and cover up.  They just didn't fire Kelly right away. 

Course they didn't have an upgrade in the wings either.

buckeyemark wrote: I just want the NCAA to be transparent, fair, and consistent.

At this point USC, Ohio State, and Penn State have been hammered, seemingly to appease the media and court of public opinion.

On the other hand Miami, Oregon, Auburn, etc... seem to keep skating by without attracting the attention of the media or the NCAA.

Now that Chip Kelly has bolted for the NCAA my desire to see Oregon heavily punished is diminished. BUT, I do want them dealt with expediently and justly.

huskyhurler wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

huskyhurler wrote:

Chidragon wrote: Yes, let's start with facts...  How many hundred phone calls / texts between Lyles and Kelly or RB Coach Campbell.  How many payments? 

A refresher: http://www.oregonlive.com/duck...s_to_willi.html

huskyhurler wrote:

TroySmithFan wrote:Oregon DID do something wrong when they paid a guy who was buddy buddy with recruits they were interested in and he encouraged them to go to Oregon.

This never happened. Even Lyles has said this never happened. Maybe one should know the facts before they speak as if they do.. Just saying..

And may I ask how numerous phone calls and texts relate to illegal payments? The University of Oregon Athletic Department wrote a check on their own checks and the payment was in their general ledger. If they thought they were doing something wrong, don't you think they would at least try to hide it? Rather than document it for all to see?

Granted, some violations occured, but for people to suggest the violations came anywhere near those at tOSU, simply does not know the facts of the case. And, are relying on nothing other than internet rumors..

There are three damning assumptions people are making

1) There was a second payment due Lyles- This "payment" was to be a 2nd years subscription.

2) Lyles assisted Lache in getting paperwork etc done to allow him to go to Oregon- The paperwork was to enable Lache to attend the college of his choice. Being a minor, and basically estranged from his mother,  these papers were needed so Lache could choose the school of his choice and sign the LOI.His mother was trouble..

"With his father incarcerated for much of his life and his mother in and out of incarceration after numerous convictions ranging from delivery of cocaine to assault causing bodily injury, he was taken care of by family members, churches, coaches and other families in this Central Texas city of 66,100.

“We’ve basically raised that kid,” Bryce Monsen, Temple High School’s former football coach, who coached Seastrunk, told FOXSports.com last month.

3) Lache got some of the funds- No truth to this at all.

on 1)  Was this verified or is it just a myth?
on 2)  Was this for Oregon or was it for Lache reguardless of where he went (Did Lache KNOW he was going ONLY to Oregon when Lyles was helping him?)
on 3)  Of course they are assuming this.  There is ZERO proof.


I would expect the answer to #2 to be that it wasn't for Oregon.  Some of it was to get him transfered to another high school long before he committed to Oregon right?  Yet Oregon is to pay the price?

BuckeyeRob wrote:

huskyhurler wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

huskyhurler wrote:

Chidragon wrote: Yes, let's start with facts...  How many hundred phone calls / texts between Lyles and Kelly or RB Coach Campbell.  How many payments? 

A refresher: http://www.oregonlive.com/duck...s_to_willi.html

huskyhurler wrote:

TroySmithFan wrote:Oregon DID do something wrong when they paid a guy who was buddy buddy with recruits they were interested in and he encouraged them to go to Oregon.

This never happened. Even Lyles has said this never happened. Maybe one should know the facts before they speak as if they do.. Just saying..

And may I ask how numerous phone calls and texts relate to illegal payments? The University of Oregon Athletic Department wrote a check on their own checks and the payment was in their general ledger. If they thought they were doing something wrong, don't you think they would at least try to hide it? Rather than document it for all to see?

Granted, some violations occured, but for people to suggest the violations came anywhere near those at tOSU, simply does not know the facts of the case. And, are relying on nothing other than internet rumors..

There are three damning assumptions people are making

1) There was a second payment due Lyles- This "payment" was to be a 2nd years subscription.

2) Lyles assisted Lache in getting paperwork etc done to allow him to go to Oregon- The paperwork was to enable Lache to attend the college of his choice. Being a minor, and basically estranged from his mother,  these papers were needed so Lache could choose the school of his choice and sign the LOI.His mother was trouble..

"With his father incarcerated for much of his life and his mother in and out of incarceration after numerous convictions ranging from delivery of cocaine to assault causing bodily injury, he was taken care of by family members, churches, coaches and other families in this Central Texas city of 66,100.

“We’ve basically raised that kid,” Bryce Monsen, Temple High School’s former football coach, who coached Seastrunk, told FOXSports.com last month.

3) Lache got some of the funds- No truth to this at all.

on 1)  Was this verified or is it just a myth?
on 2)  Was this for Oregon or was it for Lache reguardless of where he went (Did Lache KNOW he was going ONLY to Oregon when Lyles was helping him?)
on 3)  Of course they are assuming this.  There is ZERO proof.


I would expect the answer to #2 to be that it wasn't for Oregon.  Some of it was to get him transfered to another high school long before he committed to Oregon right?  Yet Oregon is to pay the price?

Unfortunately for you, you seem to be operating under the idea that the NCAA rules on a criminal standard instead of a civic standard... that is the preponderance of evidence in opposition to presumption of innocence standard.

these payments are far, far, far outside what the industry standards are for paying for recruiting information.  

I think you are in for a very, very big shock when Oregon gets slammed

lowiq wrote: troy i know you will never believe it but the agents are what had the ncaa folks so upset with usc.

you had 64 bcs schools doing everything they could to keep agents away from the programs/players as they could and you had one school openly letting them in the locker room, on the sidelines, hanging around when prospects and their parents went on recruiting visits, at practices ect.

if you dont think having an agent tell a kid and his parents he would love to represent you in 3 years is an off the charts recruiting edge then i just am wasting my time.  SO if you have 50+ % of you recruits have 4+ stars... what do YOU tell them?  This isn't news to the parents or the kids.  Agents are a dime a dozen and they will be there later too.  Kids know this as well.

Shure the NCAA had a problem with it.  The problem was that there were too many 4+ star kids at USC from all over the nation.  The kids didn't come to USC for the agents, like you are implying.   They were coming to play for Pete and USC and the success was pissing everyone off like it always does.  You guys at OSU know this.   

that trumped depth charts, weather, academics, coaches or anything else.

hello im joe blow...i represent peyton manning and would love to have you as a client. im going to have him call you next week to verify what i have done for him.

TroyKidd wrote:

lowiq wrote: troy i know you will never believe it but the agents are what had the ncaa folks so upset with usc.

you had 64 bcs schools doing everything they could to keep agents away from the programs/players as they could and you had one school openly letting them in the locker room, on the sidelines, hanging around when prospects and their parents went on recruiting visits, at practices ect.

if you dont think having an agent tell a kid and his parents he would love to represent you in 3 years is an off the charts recruiting edge then i just am wasting my time.  SO if you have 50+ % of you recruits have 4+ stars... what do YOU tell them?  This isn't news to the parents or the kids.  Agents are a dime a dozen and they will be there later too.  Kids know this as well.

Shure the NCAA had a problem with it.  The problem was that there were too many 4+ star kids at USC from all over the nation.  The kids didn't come to USC for the agents, like you are implying.   They were coming to play for Pete and USC and the success was pissing everyone off like it always does.  You guys at OSU know this.   

that trumped depth charts, weather, academics, coaches or anything else.

hello im joe blow...i represent peyton manning and would love to have you as a client. im going to have him call you next week to verify what i have done for him.

Ah the old stories of "agents in the locker room"... where was the proof of that?  
If the NCAA had said that was the reason, I would still have a problem


These guys (like Oregon's and South Florida's (FAU??) street agents) are IMPOSSIBLE to keep away from kids.  That USC "invited them in" doesn't mean there was more contact with agents at USC.


How many 1st round picks did USC have under Pete? 20?

The fact that there has only been two issues to date as a result of the "rampant agent infestation" at USC says something. 

One of those issues was handled by USC at the time.
The other kid, Reggie, was conducting business "like it was a drug deal" with a guy who wasn't an agent and who was never on the sidelines or in the locker room.

So where were the "issues" the NCAA COULD have?  Just having contact with agents isn't against the rules.  So you're saying we got hit for a NON-RULE?    GREAT


Man, it's like oversigning.  It isn't against the rules.  Why didn't other schools do it?  (Except here the NCAA will actually DO something.)

Answer: because you have to have 4+ star NFL guys there to START with? 

in 3 years... The idea that the agents were there for incoming fresh/soph and that an agent is a recruiting/competitive advantage is dumb.

ChiTownOSUnut wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

lowiq wrote: troy i know you will never believe it but the agents are what had the ncaa folks so upset with usc.

you had 64 bcs schools doing everything they could to keep agents away from the programs/players as they could and you had one school openly letting them in the locker room, on the sidelines, hanging around when prospects and their parents went on recruiting visits, at practices ect.

if you dont think having an agent tell a kid and his parents he would love to represent you in 3 years is an off the charts recruiting edge then i just am wasting my time.  SO if you have 50+ % of you recruits have 4+ stars... what do YOU tell them?  This isn't news to the parents or the kids.  Agents are a dime a dozen and they will be there later too.  Kids know this as well.

Shure the NCAA had a problem with it.  The problem was that there were too many 4+ star kids at USC from all over the nation.  The kids didn't come to USC for the agents, like you are implying.   They were coming to play for Pete and USC and the success was pissing everyone off like it always does.  You guys at OSU know this.   

that trumped depth charts, weather, academics, coaches or anything else.

hello im joe blow...i represent peyton manning and would love to have you as a client. im going to have him call you next week to verify what i have done for him.

Ah the old stories of "agents in the locker room"... where was the proof of that?  
If the NCAA had said that was the reason, I would still have a problem


These guys (like Oregon's and South Florida's (FAU??) street agents) are IMPOSSIBLE to keep away from kids.  That USC "invited them in" doesn't mean there was more contact with agents at USC.


How many 1st round picks did USC have under Pete? 20?

The fact that there has only been two issues to date as a result of the "rampant agent infestation" at USC says something. 

One of those issues was handled by USC at the time.
The other kid, Reggie, was conducting business "like it was a drug deal" with a guy who wasn't an agent and who was never on the sidelines or in the locker room.

So where were the "issues" the NCAA COULD have?  Just having contact with agents isn't against the rules.  So you're saying we got hit for a NON-RULE?    GREAT


Man, it's like oversigning.  It isn't against the rules.  Why didn't other schools do it?  (Except here the NCAA will actually DO something.)

Answer: because you have to have 4+ star NFL guys there to START with? 

in 3 years... The idea that the agents were there for incoming fresh/soph and that an agent is a recruiting/competitive advantage is dumb.

Is your claim that only the actual NFL draft picks will have contact with street agents four years earlier?  My claim?  We talking NFL agents or street agents?  USC wasn't in trouble for "street agents"  We were in trouble for NFL agents (well, one that was trying to be one anyway).  BIG difference.  But you like many don't differentiate when you should.  STREET agents deliver kids to schools.  NFL agents deliver kids to NFL teams.

Do you realize how many kids (and parents and even coaches) vastly over-estimate their chances of making to the NFL?

There are literally thousands of kids who start out their NCAA careers thinking they are going to be in the NFL one day. All of them are just as prone to contact with street agents as those who eventually make it. There's the street agent again   Exactly  You can't expect to police them all!!!  And you don't have to (see below)  In fact the higher profile standard the NCAA invented, just for Reggie at this point, pretty much backs this reality up.