buckeyemark wrote: 

Didn't Kelly have direct knowledge and involvement in Oregon's payment to the recruiting service - Lyles?

Stratbuck wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

USMCBUCK wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

cool
let's do some math then

500k divided by... what? 40 prospects = 12.5 per kid

plane costs what? lets say 1,000  (way high)
hotel Let's again say 1,000  (way high)

What's the other 10k for?

Now remember that half the recruits don't use a plane or a hotel  Also Oregon is probably the only school that MIGHT be paying the kind of air fair cost I'm talking about here.

Now look at what most SEC teams are spending     Most of those kids drive to the school.


So... you want to define recruiting costs again?

40 prospects?  And this assumes that there is one coach and one visit?  You're not much for deep thinking are you?

Ok deep well boy.  How many visits are there?

Ok before you answer that, I just looked at one thing.  OSU had 33 offers out this year.  12 to Ohio kids (scratch the plane fair for them). 

So I suppose the coaches are visiting kids they don't even have offers out on or that the kids are coming to the school without an offer?

What's that you say?  They look at many more than they offer?  Yea, ok.  So, when do they look at them?  During football season?  When they are busy coaching?  I'm sure they have tons of time to watch Friday night games

They have a limited window to check kids out and a limited number of people who can do it.


http://www.boston.com/sports/c...ruiting_at_osu/

The waiver [OSU got when Urban came aboard] specifies that no more than 10 coaches -- and no more than seven at any one time -- may be involved in recruiting. Ohio State asked for the waiver because otherwise it would have exceeded the maximum number of allowed coaches under NCAA rules.


I can redo the math based on 7 coaches traveling instead of 40 kids, deep well boy

Really the only thing this could be are "scouts/scouting expenses" paid for by the school.  Hummm scouts paid for by the school...  It's either that, or cash to players 

Usc fan lecturing lecturing?  on paying players?  LMao.  I bet that number includes every sport not just football.  You did all that work for nothing.

ode2luke wrote: Of course he knew about it.  They (the university) made no attempt at all to even remotely hide the fact that they signed up with Lyles for his $25K nationwide recruiting package, emails, invoices, check stubs etc, just like all of the other recruiting packages from other services that they purchased that year.  There is no cover up there.   Hidden in plain sight?  Maybe, but if you're out to break rules paying a guy $25K why on Earth would you put it on the books?  (What can you buy for $25K anyway? A Heisman caliber QB runs you at least $180K+.)

What is fishy about the whole situation is the material that Lyles provided the Ducks and the timeline which he did so, doesn't match up with what the NCAA mandates from recruiting services.  Is it an issue for Oregon or Lyles that he did not provide what he was contracted to do?  Lyles had been in the service for years at that point, hard to imagine he didn't know what he would be required to provide to schools.  Add in the all-star camps that he and others used to run and the grey area that included.... The NCAA changed that rule last year iirc, and now  recruiting services can't offer all star camps anymore.  Couple all that with how all that relates to all of the other 40 schools that paid Lyles that year (Cal and LSU both being in the $10K ish range)...
There are some duck sunshine pumpers who think that the whole reason that the NCAA has been dragging this on for 2+ years now is that they know that at the root level they have a case where too many coaches were off campus traveling to or from recruiting trips at the same time, and an oversized payment to a recruiting service that did not provide services as described in the manual and the AD not following up on that.  

The school and the NCAA have already agreed on what rules were broken.

I'm of the opinion that Oregon loses a couple scholarships for a few years, gets probation and decreased recruiting trips that coaches can make.  

Like I said though the real can of worms in all this is when they pass new rules regarding handlers for football and then apply that to NCAA basketball.  AAU anyone?   

 

buckeyemark wrote: 

Didn't Kelly have direct knowledge and involvement in Oregon's payment to the recruiting service - Lyles?

TroyKidd wrote:

Ok deep well boy.  How many visits are there?

Ok before you answer that, I just looked at one thing.  OSU had 33 offers out this year.  12 to Ohio kids (scratch the plane fair for them). 

So I suppose the coaches are visiting kids they don't even have offers out on or that the kids are coming to the school without an offer?

What's that you say?  They look at many more than they offer?  Yea, ok.  So, when do they look at them?  During football season?  When they are busy coaching?  I'm sure they have tons of time to watch Friday night games

They have a limited window to check kids out and a limited number of people who can do it.


http://www.boston.com/sports/c...ruiting_at_osu/

The waiver [OSU got when Urban came aboard] specifies that no more than 10 coaches -- and no more than seven at any one time -- may be involved in recruiting. Ohio State asked for the waiver because otherwise it would have exceeded the maximum number of allowed coaches under NCAA rules.


I can redo the math based on 7 coaches traveling instead of 40 kids, deep well boy

Really the only thing this could be are "scouts/scouting expenses" paid for by the school.  Hummm scouts paid for by the school...  It's either that, or cash to players 

TroySmiethFan wrote: As stated by others above, Oregon did nothing wrong by paying for recruiting services. Many other schools do the same thing.

Oregon DID do something wrong when they paid a guy who was buddy buddy with recruits they were interested in and he encouraged them to go to Oregon. A school like Oregon would not want film of old D2 and D3 prospects which is what they received for Lyle's "services".

TroyKidd wrote:

 The numbers don't add up.  WTF are schools putting in that category?  I wouldn't expect coaches salaries to be in there.  In fact, if anything, I'd expect recruiting expenses to be in the wrong category.

So what sports/kids DO schools pay recruiting expenses on? 

Football
Basketball
Baseball?
Soccer?
Tennis?

No matter how you slice it, the bigest piece, by far, will be football.  (half the total??? more??)


SEC schools don't field as many sports as many Pac schools or B1G (?) yet they STILL have more recruiting expenses?

ode2luke wrote:

Sorry I though reading comprehension could be assumed from an academic conference like the B1G.  You must not have gone to school there.

The important part of what I said, "and then covering it up to maintain a competitive advantage on the field. Tressel did that."  


The Tat5 trading the memorabilia they received from tOSU is a benefit.  Tressel knew about it and deliberately hid it to keep his guys on the field.  2010's 12-1 record likely looks a lot more like 2011's 6-7 without them.  

Isolated incident from a few bad apples?  SI doesn't think so...
"Tressel was forced out three days after Sports Illustrated alerted Ohio State officials that the wrongdoing by Tressel's players was far more widespread than had been reported. SI learned that the memorabilia-for-tattoos violations actually stretched back to 2002, Tressel's second season at Ohio State, and involved at least 28 players"

bucksrbest wrote: You're an idiot. But smarter than I am obviously.

---------------------------------------------
--- ode2luke wrote:

Difference being no one has accused Oregon of providing any benefits to players and then covering it up to maintain a competitive advantage on the field. Tressel did that and his team benefitted from having Pryor on the field for that season, B1G co-champ, BCS game etc. 

TroyKidd wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

 The numbers don't add up.  WTF are schools putting in that category?  I wouldn't expect coaches salaries to be in there.  In fact, if anything, I'd expect recruiting expenses to be in the wrong category.

So what sports/kids DO schools pay recruiting expenses on? 

Football
Basketball
Baseball?
Soccer?
Tennis?

No matter how you slice it, the bigest piece, by far, will be football.  (half the total??? more??)


SEC schools don't field as many sports as many Pac schools or B1G (?) yet they STILL have more recruiting expenses?

Just went to the link from the first page on tOSU's budget


400-500k a year on just FOOTBALL recruiting.  I remember a list of other schools recruiting expenses(??) Tenn over $1MM  Oregon $600k  Bama upwards of $8-900K  I don't remember the number for tOSU there.  Was it this same 4-500k?

TroyKidd wrote:

Stratbuck wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

USMCBUCK wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

cool
let's do some math then

500k divided by... what? 40 prospects = 12.5 per kid

plane costs what? lets say 1,000  (way high)
hotel Let's again say 1,000  (way high)

What's the other 10k for?

Now remember that half the recruits don't use a plane or a hotel  Also Oregon is probably the only school that MIGHT be paying the kind of air fair cost I'm talking about here.

Now look at what most SEC teams are spending     Most of those kids drive to the school.


So... you want to define recruiting costs again?

40 prospects?  And this assumes that there is one coach and one visit?  You're not much for deep thinking are you?

Ok deep well boy.  How many visits are there?

Ok before you answer that, I just looked at one thing.  OSU had 33 offers out this year.  12 to Ohio kids (scratch the plane fair for them). 

So I suppose the coaches are visiting kids they don't even have offers out on or that the kids are coming to the school without an offer?

What's that you say?  They look at many more than they offer?  Yea, ok.  So, when do they look at them?  During football season?  When they are busy coaching?  I'm sure they have tons of time to watch Friday night games

They have a limited window to check kids out and a limited number of people who can do it.


http://www.boston.com/sports/c...ruiting_at_osu/

The waiver [OSU got when Urban came aboard] specifies that no more than 10 coaches -- and no more than seven at any one time -- may be involved in recruiting. Ohio State asked for the waiver because otherwise it would have exceeded the maximum number of allowed coaches under NCAA rules.


I can redo the math based on 7 coaches traveling instead of 40 kids, deep well boy

Really the only thing this could be are "scouts/scouting expenses" paid for by the school.  Hummm scouts paid for by the school...  It's either that, or cash to players 

Usc fan lecturing lecturing?  on paying players?  LMao.  I bet that number includes every sport not just football.  You did all that work for nothing.

I was thinking that as well

I've been wanting to dig into this more.  I can't find anyone with any more info than I currently have, which is damn little.

The numbers don't add up.  WTF are schools putting in that category?  I wouldn't expect coaches salaries to be in there.  In fact, if anything, I'd expect recruiting expenses to be in the wrong category.

So what sports/kids DO schools pay recruiting expenses on? 

Football
Basketball
Baseball?
Soccer?
Tennis?

No matter how you slice it, the bigest piece, by far, will be football.  (half the total??? more??)


SEC schools don't field as many sports as many Pac schools or B1G (?) yet they STILL have more recruiting expenses?

JamesWright wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

TroyKidd wrote:

 The numbers don't add up.  WTF are schools putting in that category?  I wouldn't expect coaches salaries to be in there.  In fact, if anything, I'd expect recruiting expenses to be in the wrong category.

So what sports/kids DO schools pay recruiting expenses on? 

Football
Basketball
Baseball?
Soccer?
Tennis?

No matter how you slice it, the bigest piece, by far, will be football.  (half the total??? more??)


SEC schools don't field as many sports as many Pac schools or B1G (?) yet they STILL have more recruiting expenses?

Just went to the link from the first page on tOSU's budget


400-500k a year on just FOOTBALL recruiting.  I remember a list of other schools recruiting expenses(??) Tenn over $1MM  Oregon $600k  Bama upwards of $8-900K  I don't remember the number for tOSU there.  Was it this same 4-500k?

If you don't think the recruiting expenses are legit, give us a break-down and show us the malfeasance.

If you don't know what you're talking about, why are you talking, and who are you talking to?

I have no idea if they are legit or not.  I don't know what makes up the 4-500k for you guys or anyone else.


Ignorance is not a crime
How do you learn without asking questions?

It's real easy to NOT ask questions.  I understand if some people think not asking questions is a good thing. 


Are you saying $4-500k on football "recruiting expenses" sounds right to you?  Not picking on OSU here.  I'm just focusing on OSU because somebody here might have real knowledge.


I was talking to a friend.  They mentioned the private jet USC used for recruiting Silas.  That would have been pricey, $8-10k (? I have no idea).  But that's for one guy.  The coaches don't do that for everyone.  Pretty much only Silas??

There's a thread on Vanderdos on our board at the moment.  I guess he drove down from northern Cal for his official visit this weekend... 4-5 hours one way (?)   He could have flown.  If SC had picked up the ticket cost there it would be around $3-400 round trip(?) x3 for him, Mom and Dad.  That would have ended up as a "recruiting expense", and a valid one IMO. 

The school is only going to hand out so many "free trips" and it has nothing to do with how much the school can AFFORD to hand out.

TheStoicPaisano wrote:  May (or right after the Spring Game) will be another expensive month as the coaches go visit c/o 2014 and 2015 prospects. These guys aren't buying advance fares...they're telling the recruiting ops guys they need a flight for 24 hours from now. Even a Columbus to Chicago (for example) trip will run $1500 that close in.  Really?   That's like 350 miles?  $1,500??

 

USMCBUCK wrote: From yesterday to tomorrow (just going off memory from what I've seen on Twitter), Urban is visiting recruits in Texas, multiple places in Georgia, and Michigan.

skieIy wrote: Ohio State fans are seriously the DUMBEST mother f*ckers.

TroyKidd wrote:

TheStoicPaisano wrote:  May (or right after the Spring Game) will be another expensive month as the coaches go visit c/o 2014 and 2015 prospects. These guys aren't buying advance fares...they're telling the recruiting ops guys they need a flight for 24 hours from now. Even a Columbus to Chicago (for example) trip will run $1500 that close in.  Really?   That's like 350 miles?  $1,500??

 

Like I was saying at this point the list of possibles is pretty short... 

Even at $1,500 a pop your talking 30-35 trips for $50k