Saban will be the next coach in Cleveland.

theFootballBeast wrote: Coaching in Cleveland is a lost cause. Just calling it like i see it. Apparently chip kelly saw it the same way.

They just need to hire a coach for the first time since the 90's.

asdodge wrote:  They just need to hire a coach for the first time since the 90's.

This.

Nope, I am as well. Which is why I am ecstatic he's not signing with the browns. His team always lose against good defenses in college and all defenses are at least that good in the NFL. I can only assume people have been convinced he's a star due to the media shoving Chip Kelly propaganda down our throat all season. A week didn't go by when several major news sources didn't have articles about Chip Kelly's "revolutionary" skills. Until they got shut down by Stanford anyway.

But the Bowl lull distanced us enough from there to get the propaganda machine going again so here we are.

BuckinDayton wrote: Am I the only one that is puzzled by the buzz about Kelly by NFL teams?

Then again, the Bills just hired Syracuse's coach, who I've never heard of.

  well, I think we are closer to the Chip Kelly type in the NFL than we think...Russell Wilson,  RG III, Cam Newton..sometimes Luck.....there are at least  3 mobile QBs  who will do if you don't happen to have a spare Brady, Eli, Peyton or Rogers around...Pryor did as well as Carson Palmer and for all the talk about Chip Kelly & his offense...his defense is usually pretty good as well

asdodge wrote:

houtexbuck wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- brutus79 wrote:

Lovie Smith is darn good.
Me thinks Pat Haden gets Jack Del Rio to USC after next NLOI signing day, and most of the USC probation is gone.
I would take Mel Tucker over Kelly.  Kelly had a nice run, but most teams with a physical D front and who could run the ball, beat him every time.

DaveyBoy wrote: I think they should look at Lovie Smith or Jack Del Rio.

---------------------------------------------

I agree with Lovie Smith as the best candidate available.

I agree Lovie has the best resume', but some think he may be on the downside now.  He has been reputed to be a hindrance to the offensive staff.  He definitely would bring massive instant impovement.

However, I think Whisenhunt may be the best candidate.  He is credited with having helped shape Pittisburg offense as TE coach then OC until going to the Cardinals.  He turned the Cardinals into a 2-straight division champ and Super Bowl contenders (first time in franchise history).  Several teams went after him, but he signed an extension out of loyalty with the Cardinals instead.  his payment for his loyalty was for Cardinals management to basically refuse to sign key players, release others, and a some poor drafts... several choices against Whisenhunt's desires.

Again, the Cardinals are not a well-run team nor is winning first in their agenda... Whisenhunt had 3 winning seasons, 2 losing, and an 8-8.  His two losing seasons coming in his last 3 years as the Cardinals were unable to find, sign, or draft a good QB.  he actually would have a better QB situation in Cleveland than he has in Arizona.  Not to mention, Richardson is a promising RB, and there is a decent corps of WRs who are young and could use his guidance.  Haslam seems willing to spend money, so some good free agents might be lured (even a Beanie Wells who is going to be released by the Cardinals).  He is also inheriting a fairly respected (by NFL pundits) defense.  Many folks at all levels of the NFL were saying the Browns already have some great young talent on defense.  Lovie would work well with them, for sure, but so would Whisenhunt, and Whisenhunt would work better with the offense.  If he can build a decent winner in Arizona with THAT ownership, he could (subjunctive, I know) do wonders in Cleveland.

Fist three yeas of Whisenhunt time with the Cardinals, almost all of those Cardinals (players), was brought in by coach D. Green not coach Whisenhust. Without D. Green helping out the Cardinal front office with the draft, that team went down hill fast under Whisenhunt. Coach D. Green might not be a very good coach but he is very good at picking college players, that can play the game of football. One team in the NFL needs to let him be the GM of their team.

asdodge wrote:

theFootballBeast wrote: Coaching in Cleveland is a lost cause. Just calling it like i see it. Apparently chip kelly saw it the same way.

They just need to hire a coach for the first time since the 90's.

The Lerner  Group got the Browns despite most NFL insiders thinking the group with Bernie Kosar had the better NFL personnel guys... mostly because the Lerners had more money.  The NFL did not care about Cleveland enough to make sure they would have a decent team.  The NFL got 3 paydays in the screwing of Cleveland.  Modell had to pay a fee, to the league, Maryland/Baltimore paid a fee, then they got the Lerner money.  Heck, Cleveland did not even get the true, traditional expansion drafts as was usually done.  The men put in charge of football operations were a litany of sycophants and morons.  But, let's look at the coaches 

Seriously, under the Lerners, the Browns coaches have been:
1. Chris Palmer- had been an also-ran assistant in colelges and pro (HC at Boston Uni for a couple years in 80's).  His claim to fame was that he had worked with Drew Bledsoe and developed him with Parcells.  he also had worked with Kevin Gilbride at the tail end of the Houston run and shoot days.  He was a shock hire and lasted 2 years before being shipped off, but the damage was done.  He had no experience as a HC and had only been an OC 3 years in the NFL (91-93 with Oilers, 98-99 with Patriots).
2. Butch Davis:  considered a good hire by many at the time.  Butch had been a head coach in the USFL and in college, including the cleaning up and restoration of Miami, Fla after the Jimmy Johnson scandals finally caught up with them.  He was the DefCo for Jimmy John's Super Bowl Teams in Dallas before going to Miami.  He gave immediate improvement.  7-9 first year, 9-7 and Cleveland's only playoff appearance.  However, infighting with coaches during the playoff game and the front office over draft choices polarized the team and him, along QB controversies unsettled.  He was 3-8 and forced to resign when the front office got tired of the problems (who knows who was right).  Terry Robiskie filled in and was a popular choice, but management would not give him the reins. 
3. Romeo Crennel- was NOT the guy the Lerners and new GMs wanted.  he literally was forced on them by the ESPN machine of political correctness.  Having not been hired 8 times previously, Bill Belichik's DefCO for his first 3 Super Bowl wins became the poster boy for ethnic coach hiring and ESPN baiscally campaigned for Cleveland to hire him.  Cleveland had other choices, but went for the populist hire.  Cleveland went 9-23 in his first two years and folks wanted him fired.  SOme staff changes and the lightning in a bottle season emergence of Derek Anderson saw Clevelnd get hot in the 2nd half of the 2007 season and Cleveland went 10-6, but missed the playoffs.  Hopes were high, but Cleveland turned right around and went 4-12 as the offense failed to do anythig and Crennel lost favor with the Lerners when he asked for more say in draft choices and questioned their refusal to sign certain players.
4. Eric Mangini- the latest of the Bill Parcells/Bill Belichik coaching tree (Crennel, Palmer), was a bad hire to most folks.  While he had had a .500 record with the Jets, 10-6 his first year, downhill after that, most of his players did not like him and he had only been a DefCo 1 year (his last year as an assistant with the Jets before becoming head coach).  His lack of experience showed in game management and people skills with players and fans.  He lasted 2 years.
5. Pat Shurmur:  The elder Lerner had died a couple years earlier, and son Randy had taken over the team.  With constant failure, he wanted to make a splash and handed over all football operations to Mike Holmgren, recently ousted in seattle for wanting more than he had there (coach & GM, but not CEO).  He was told he could not coach, but would be pres. and and could hire a GM.  Holmgren had the pedigree, but his years in Seattle showed he was not suited to be coach, GM, and more.  Draft choices in Seattle were questioned, but Homgren was a name.  Holmgren oversaw Mangini's last season, then went to changes.  Holmgren brought in Tom Heckart, GM at the pinnacle of the Eagles dominance in the NFC.  Seemed like a great situation.  Heckert and Holmgren settled on Pat Shurmur, who had been a QB coach at Philly when Heckert was there, given a lot of credit for the development of McNabb.  He then hd worked in St. Louis as QB coach/OC when where he worked with Bradford and was given credit with having moulded him.  ???  Another guy with 1 year of coordinator experience and no head coaching anywhere.  Shurmur tried to play coach and OffCo in a year marred by a lockout and wa sunable to truly install his offense.  COnfusion, problems, and a series of injuires to 2nd year QB Colt McCoy hampered the team.  Shurmur was never a fan of McCoy and he talked Holmgren into finding another QB.  McCOy was relatively popular with the players and Shurmur's selling him out created some dissension.  Brandon Weeden was brought in when Holmgren gave up several draft choices to get a second 1st Rd choice.  Holmgren and Shurmur liked what they saw in Weeden, though many felt Weeden was a bit old to break in as a new franchise QB.  Also, Weeden came from a spread offense and Shurmur ran the West Coast.  Weeden has said that he did not fit in with Shurmur's system.  Although some real improvement was seen, especially defensively in Shurmur's second year, many 4th Qtr and OT losses, often attributed to Shurmur's ultra conservative play-calling (and yet, lack of use of Richardson in the 2nd half of several games) or inability to adjust to defensive adjustments, as well as his fairly apparent firing to come with new ownership led to a flat ending and the Browns lost their last 4 games,each worse thean the previous.  many point out that, if the player's wanted to truly keep Shurmur and Shurmur wanted his job, there would have been a stronger move after Cleveland got to 5-7 after a 3-game win streak.

As anyone can see, these 5 coaches were not quality choices... they did not have the experience, quality repuation (outside of Crennel as Belichik's DefCO for his first 3 Super Bowls- but folks should know that the NE defense is Belichik's, not Crennel's).  ANyhow, a litany of mismanagement from the top to the HC has been the recipe for disaster.  Overall, Cleveland's draft choices in Holmgren's 3 years have found some diamonds in the rough, so the cupboard is not bare.  The Browns have a potential stud RB, some potentially VERY good WRS (Gordon, Little), and respected OL, a respected DL, some good LBs, and a couple of solid DBs who need some help.  What is missing is a good QB or a good system than gets McCoy and/or Weeden on the same page as the rest of the offense.  Weeden was never truly impressive, consistenly missing reads and taking bad sacks, often dropping and preparing for a hit before he needed to... His throws were late, he stared down receivers, and often totally misread coverages.  At 29, he really is not the guy for Cleveland to hang their hats on for the future, regardless of skillsets he may have demonstrated in combines. 
A good owner, willing to bring in the right coaches (witih experience and winning experience) and buy a couple of quality players- especially in the DB and maybe at QB, could easily field an 8-8 team next year, maybe better.  NFL scouts have been saying that the Browns have a good team and thought a year full in Shurmur's system would see the Browns improve dramtically.  Unfortunately, Shurmur himself lost him his job with poor game management and lack of adjustments.

TheBar25 wrote:

asdodge wrote:

houtexbuck wrote:

Fist three yeas of Whisenhunt time with the Cardinals, almost all of those Cardinals (players), was brought in by coach D. Green not coach Whisenhust. Without D. Green helping out the Cardinal front office with the draft, that team went down hill fast under Whisenhunt. Coach D. Green might not be a very good coach but he is very good at picking college players, that can play the game of football. One team in the NFL needs to let him be the GM of their team.

Whisenhunt did not allow the top two receivers from those winning teams to leave, the top 3 defensive players to leave by refusing to sign them and lose 2 QBs and forced to choose between two lame ones because they would not sign a quality one.  Whisenhunt did pretty well with the loss of talent.  Dennis Green certainly did not do as well with that talent, did he?

According to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, the Browns have included Colts OC Bruce Arians and Montreal Alouettes coach Marc Trestman to their head-coaching search.

DoubleE wrote: According to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, the Browns have included Colts OC Bruce Arians and Montreal Alouettes coach Marc Trestman to their head-coaching search.

I do not believe that.  Trestman is old news and is being added to everyone still looking for a coach list by the media.  Arians is probably on everyone's list, though after today, his stock may have dropped a bit.  His offense was putrid today... but, his development of Luck might sell him.

He was in hospital and did not coach today

asdodge wrote:

DoubleE wrote: According to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, the Browns have included Colts OC Bruce Arians and Montreal Alouettes coach Marc Trestman to their head-coaching search.

I do not believe that.  Trestman is old news and is being added to everyone still looking for a coach list by the media.  Arians is probably on everyone's list, though after today, his stock may have dropped a bit.  His offense was putrid today... but, his development of Luck might sell him.

---------------------------------------------
--- OSUVB wrote:

asdodge wrote:  They just need to hire a coach for the first time since the 90's.

This.

---------------------------------------------

As a Metallica song states "Sad But True"

The 99-present Browns have been the laughingstock of the NFL.

Did anyone really believe that Chip Kelly would end up with the Browns?

---------------------------------------------
--- Stratbuck wrote:

Did anyone really believe that Chip Kelly would end up with the Browns?

---------------------------------------------

With a new owner who had him locked on radar I felt the chances were good. I think the Browns lucked out as obviously Chip's still happiest in Eugene. He would have only come here for money and nothing else.

Chip would have brought some excitement, but I'm still optimistic about the direction of the organization. The new ownership seems committed and passionate, something that Lerner was not. There are a number of good coaching candidates out there still.

you know nothing if you think cleveland has high cost of living

cheswick wrote:

lakeeriebuckeye wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- Stratbuck wrote:

Did anyone really believe that Chip Kelly would end up with the Browns?

---------------------------------------------

With a new owner who had him locked on radar I felt the chances were good. I think the Browns lucked out as obviously Chip's still happiest in Eugene. He would have only come here for money and nothing else.

Umm wrong...Thats the total misperception.

chip makes 4.5 million per right now, and lives in an area with low cost of living. pprobably the equivalent of 6 million in cleveland and 8-9 million in LA. He turned down an offer of 7 million and some control over player decisions last year from tampa bay...This had nothing to do with money.

this was about a new challenge but being able to have as much control as possible over player movement and drafts, about who he would be coaching...very few owners will give that up...they like to play with with their toys too much.

Wow, his incentives must be through the roof considering his base salary is 2.8 mill. He must get 1.5 mill for going to BCS game.
---------------------------------------------
--- cheswick wrote:

lakeeriebuckeye wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- Stratbuck wrote:

Did anyone really believe that Chip Kelly would end up with the Browns?

---------------------------------------------

With a new owner who had him locked on radar I felt the chances were good. I think the Browns lucked out as obviously Chip's still happiest in Eugene. He would have only come here for money and nothing else.

Umm wrong...Thats the total misperception.

chip makes 4.5 million per right now, and lives in an area with low cost of living. pprobably the equivalent of 6 million in cleveland and 8-9 million in LA. He turned down an offer of 7 million and some control over player decisions last year from tampa bay...This had nothing to do with money.

this was about a new challenge but being able to have as much control as possible over player movement and drafts, about who he would be coaching...very few owners will give that up...they like to play with with their toys too much.

---------------------------------------------