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Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
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Posted: 1/6/2013 1:47 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
DeepSthBoy wrote:
SOBuck wrote: The polls are manipulated by the voters. Grassy knoll. Grassy knoll. FALSE We've SEEN coaches vote teams way low than 95% of the other coaches/media |
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Posted: 1/6/2013 3:34 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
tomtango wrote:
cincydawg4 wrote: The question for me is whether a four team playoff is better than an eight team playoff.
For me, it's to make sure every very worthy team is included. That doesn't happen with a four team-vote based system. The 'best team' is NEVER a known, so chasing that white rabbit makes almost no sense to me. To exclude a once beaten team from a major conference is much more critical to avoid than trying to eliminate teams who don't deserve to be there. This isn't the NFL. The teams are not that closely matched. Unworthy teams will simply be beaten at some point over a three game stretch against top 8 opponents. I can't think of the last time a 'fraud' beat three straight top ten teams in consecutive weeks. Agree.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 5:20 PM
RE: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would ha
The NC playoffs should consist of Conference champions only !!! The Conference champions receive the auto bids to the BCS. The playoffs should be the same way. If you can't win your conference you have no business being a NC. This isn't the NFL / CFL etc
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Posted: 1/6/2013 8:02 PM
RE: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would ha
 YES! ( And it isn't Strat-O -Matic either ) bigtim1960 wrote: The NC playoffs should consist of Conference champions only !!! The Conference champions receive the auto bids to the BCS. The playoffs should be the same way. If you can't win your conference you have no business being a NC. This isn't the NFL / CFL etc |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 10:36 AM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
--------------------------------------------- --- OSUVB wrote: cincydawg4 wrote: A problem with 8 teams is that it makes the "best team" statistically unlikely to win. I see your point, but OTOH, playoffs are like democracy - the worst system, except for all the others. But please do drop a note to the NFL, the NBA, MLB, NHL, even the US Olympic Committee, and let them know they're doing it wrong  --------------------------------------------- Money talks, but MLB is a perfect example. Before 1969, TWO baseball teams made the playoffs. 154 to determine he best team in each league. No questions, large regular season sample size. There were definitely upsets in the series, like Indians/ Giants in 54. Then again, no interleague play, and the NL being more integrated, the NL may have been a stronger, deeper league.. ( sounds familiar) The problem isn't doing it right or wrong, its a bad business model to have 30 teams fighting for 2 playoff spots.... especially if your favorite team is out of the playoff hunt 1/3 of the way through the regular season. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 11:26 AM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
A "playoff" is not "wrong. It merely determines a playoff champion, which at times can clearly be "not the best team". There is no way to determine the "best team" in CFB. It cannot be done.
In my mind, a playoff champion is a fine concept, and I think polls are OK concepts, and every other method is an OK concept.
I personally think an 8 team playoff would occasionally see the 8 seed with 2 losses making a run and winning three games. It is possible those two losses could be to the 1 or 2 seed, which they then beat the third time around.
If an 8th seed CANNOT make it through, why include them at all?
Therefore, on rare occasions, said 8 seed will win out, and you'd have an 11-2 team become 14-2 winning the playoff championship over some 13-1 team that has beaten them 2 out of 3 times.
Then you have all the issues around how to seed teams, where to play the games, etc. etc. etc.
I personally am fine with the four team playoff. "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.”
—Benjamin Franklin, 1706–1790 |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 11:29 AM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
ChiTownOSUnut wrote: It's easy to rag on them after the loss, but I'll admit I thought FLA was one of the best teams at the end of the year.
They played a murder's row. Even if you're a SEC-is-over-rated guy, those teams are still better than most.
BEFORE THE BOWLS here's how I would have ranked the non-OSU teams:
1. Oregon
2. FLA
3. ND
4. Bama
5. UGA UGA beat UF. I never understand how you can have two teams so closely ranked and then opt for the one that loss in a head to head match up to be rated higher. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 12:04 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
Sometimes, the better team will lose to a lesser team.
An 11-1 team might lose to a 6-6 team.
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.”
—Benjamin Franklin, 1706–1790 |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:12 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
cincydawg4 wrote: Sometimes, the better team will lose to a lesser team.
An 11-1 team might lose to a 6-6 team. And sometimes the "lesser team" isn't Course when you frame it in an 11-1 vs a 6-6 team context, then yea, you're right How about when it's an 12-0 team vs a 10-2 team? |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:32 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
Funny. Works in the NFL. The 'best team' is the team that wins the games and goes home with the crystal football. That's why they play the games. cincydawg4 wrote: A problem with 8 teams is that it makes the "best team" statistically unlikely to win. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:34 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
We see dramatic upsets every season. A contest between a 12-0 team and a 10-2 team is not a dramatic upset, probably just a "normal upset". A single game does not mean the winner is the better team overall. The 12-0 team may have had a lot of turnovers.
Had Georgia completed that last pass, would that make them better than Alabama? On that specific play, perhaps so.
I personally dislike seeing an 8 seed get a shot at the NC. In my scenario, they could easily be 11-2 with both losses being to the 1 seed, and they could upset the 1 seed. Does that make them the better team?
Not to me.
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.”
—Benjamin Franklin, 1706–1790 |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:35 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
cincydawg4 wrote: Sometimes, the better team will lose to a lesser team.
An 11-1 team might lose to a 6-6 team. That's not how it works in college football. You lose to a team with a similar record as you and there is no way you should be ranked over that team if you are within 2-3 spots of each other in a poll. The best way to figure out who is better is play. On the field, UGA beat UF. I trust the results on the field to be a better indicator of who is better than some of you chatter heads on message boards or idiots who have poll votes. Essentially, ranking UF 2 and UGA 5 is silly.
Last edited 1/7/2013 2:37 PM by Ty Webb
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:36 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
cincydawg4 wrote:A "playoff" is not "wrong. It merely determines a playoff champion, which at times can clearly be "not the best team". There is no way to determine the "best team" in CFB. It cannot be done.
In my mind, a playoff champion is a fine concept, and I think polls are OK concepts, and every other method is an OK concept.
I personally think an 8 team playoff would occasionally see the 8 seed with 2 losses making a run and winning three games. It is possible those two losses could be to the 1 or 2 seed, which they then beat the third time around.
If an 8th seed CANNOT make it through, why include them at all?
Therefore, on rare occasions, said 8 seed will win out, and you'd have an 11-2 team become 14-2 winning the playoff championship over some 13-1 team that has beaten them 2 out of 3 times.
Then you have all the issues around how to seed teams, where to play the games, etc. etc. etc.
I personally am fine with the four team playoff. A. "If an 8th seed cannot make it through, why include them?" To not be random with the playoffs and have some sort of structure. How exactly are you going to formulate a 7 team playoff? I'd rather include the eigth team than exclude the fifth team. B. If an 11-2 team rattles off three straight wins over 3 top eight teams, I don't see the problem. Performing such a feat isn't something weak teams are at all capable of doing. I won't feel sorry for an undefeated team whose record was padded with nearly 8 mediocre to bad opponents. That 14-2 team will certainly have proven as much if not more in those three games than the 12-1 Alabama team that is playing tonight. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:41 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
Look at the polls......$EC got the voters in their pockets($$$)...Straight Up.....Props |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:21 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
Ty Webb wrote:
cincydawg4 wrote: Sometimes, the better team will lose to a lesser team.
An 11-1 team might lose to a 6-6 team.
That's not how it works in college football. You lose to a team with a similar record as you and there is no way you should be ranked over that team if you are within 2-3 spots of each other in a poll.
The best way to figure out who is better is play. On the field, UGA beat UF. I trust the results on the field to be a better indicator of who is better than some of you chatter heads on message boards or idiots who have poll votes.
Essentially, ranking UF 2 and UGA 5 is silly. But Georgia was hammered by a South Carolina team Florida beat 44-11.  Football rankings cannot be clean, neat, simple, syllogistic affairs. Weird things happen. We would otherwise need to rank USce over Georgia who is ranked ahead of Florida, who is ranked ahead of USCe. "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.”
—Benjamin Franklin, 1706–1790 |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:34 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
cincydawg4 wrote: Football rankings cannot be clean, neat, simple, syllogistic affairs... That's why "rankings" (ie, votes) should not be how playoffs are determined. Yes, there are often upsets? So what? It was still played, and decided, on the field, not by a bunch of "voters" sitting around at computer screens. In that system, the results are on the players. That's why you play the game - we don't have "voters" say "Well, today, we think this will be the results in the SEC, in the B1G," and so on. They play the game. And that's how playoffs should be. Which is why virtually every other sport uses them. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:41 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
cincydawg4 wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:
cincydawg4 wrote: Sometimes, the better team will lose to a lesser team.
An 11-1 team might lose to a 6-6 team.
That's not how it works in college football. You lose to a team with a similar record as you and there is no way you should be ranked over that team if you are within 2-3 spots of each other in a poll.
The best way to figure out who is better is play. On the field, UGA beat UF. I trust the results on the field to be a better indicator of who is better than some of you chatter heads on message boards or idiots who have poll votes.
Essentially, ranking UF 2 and UGA 5 is silly. But Georgia was hammered by a South Carolina team Florida beat 44-11.
Football rankings cannot be clean, neat, simple, syllogistic affairs. Weird things happen.
We would otherwise need to rank USce over Georgia who is ranked ahead of Florida, who is ranked ahead of USCe. Transitive property never works in college football. So saying UGA got beat by USC who lost to UF is moronic because UGA BEAT UF. Holy Christmas, dude. And USC isn't in the mix because they have 2 losses. They fail the record test. UGA and UF had similar records. UGA beat UF. Ranking UF higher is just silly. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:50 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
Ty Webb wrote:
ChiTownOSUnut wrote: It's easy to rag on them after the loss, but I'll admit I thought FLA was one of the best teams at the end of the year.
They played a murder's row. Even if you're a SEC-is-over-rated guy, those teams are still better than most.
BEFORE THE BOWLS here's how I would have ranked the non-OSU teams:
1. Oregon
2. FLA
3. ND
4. Bama
5. UGA UGA beat UF. I never understand how you can have two teams so closely ranked and then opt for the one that loss in a head to head match up to be rated higher. I agree but where do you draw the end to the circular arguement? If I would have listed out the rest of my top 15 it would include Standford, A&M, and USCe. You could ask why do I not have Standford in front of Oregon, A&M in front of Bama, and USCe in front of UGA? If I do that then FLA needs to jump back in front of USCe AND A&M........... Not sure how to get around it.... |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:58 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
ChiTownOSUnut wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:
ChiTownOSUnut wrote: It's easy to rag on them after the loss, but I'll admit I thought FLA was one of the best teams at the end of the year.
They played a murder's row. Even if you're a SEC-is-over-rated guy, those teams are still better than most.
BEFORE THE BOWLS here's how I would have ranked the non-OSU teams:
1. Oregon
2. FLA
3. ND
4. Bama
5. UGA UGA beat UF. I never understand how you can have two teams so closely ranked and then opt for the one that loss in a head to head match up to be rated higher.
I agree but where do you draw the end to the circular arguement?
If I would have listed out the rest of my top 15 it would include Standford, A&M, and USCe.
You could ask why do I not have Standford in front of Oregon, A&M in front of Bama, and USCe in front of UGA? If I do that then FLA needs to jump back in front of USCe AND A&M...........
Not sure how to get around it.... I actually just realized the flaw in my logic. After the SEC Champ game, UGA had 2 losses, not one. UF had one. Hence, UF should be ranked ahead of UGA. Not sure why I thought UGA only had one loss after losing to Bama. Same with A&M. They had two losses at year end compared to Bama's one. Hence, A&M had no claim to being ranked over Bama. My apologies on the UGA example. |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 4:09 PM
Re: How scary is the system when we just assume Florida would
be patient ty.
the next poll that comes out will have uga ahead of florida.
one thing to remember when it comes to the voting....the voters are from all across the country and not all stuck in the deep south.
if you want to make an arguement that they give the sec the benefit of the doubt go ahead but to try and argue that somehow the sec is controlling the process is insane.
it looks like 95% of the media outside of sec country is praying for a notre dame win to put an end to the sec reign of terror.
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