RJSimmons wrote:

I am not trying to offer facts. I have been upfront with the fact that none of us know the facts, so all we are left with is to form an educated opinion.....

indynittany wrote: Too bad you don't practice what you preach.

RJSimmons wrote: If you have all of the FACTS, by all means do share them. If you are offering your own interpretations of the same partial information like everyone else, go ahead and keep your misinformation to yourself.

irondoc wrote: I posted an interpretation of the facts of this case by a high end law professor but people are still playing message board nonsense games . Check out what that law professor says about it.
And what the delusional lion fans and the other side doesn't seem to grasp that none of that matters here in this case. What matters if the NCAA acted properly.

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--- RJSimmons wrote:

If you have all of the FACTS, by all means do share them. If you are offering your own interpretations of the same partial information like everyone else, go ahead and keep your misinformation to yourself.

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--- chris52574 wrote:

SO much misinformation on this board, and unfortunatley, in the public.

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OriginalDCBuck wrote: I have also seen legal opinions where they believe the state of PA has no case and will likely lose, it is all just opinion at this point.  It will be interesting if the courts say that plea bargaining isn't allowed, imagine the repercussions on the legal system because it happens 10,000 times a day in this country.  I say give them what they want, immediately drop the sanctions PSU agreed to and open a full scale investigation.  I still don't see how the NCAA acted improperly, from what I read they said you can have us investigate and risk worse sanctions or we can use your own internal investigation and rule right now.  Unless the NCAA said we will give you the death penalty (or worse sanctions than what you received) if you don't agree to sanctions right now, I don't see how they did anything wrong.  The scope of the NCAA investigation would likely broaden from the Freeh report, it isn't unreasonable that they wouldn't find other issues that could affect sanctions. 

irondoc wrote: I posted an interpretation of the facts of this case by a high end law professor but people are still playing message board nonsense games . Check out what that law professor says about it.
And what the delusional lion fans and the other side doesn't seem to grasp that none of that matters here in this case. What matters if the NCAA acted properly.

---------------------------------------------
--- RJSimmons wrote:

If you have all of the FACTS, by all means do share them. If you are offering your own interpretations of the same partial information like everyone else, go ahead and keep your misinformation to yourself.

---------------------------------------------
--- chris52574 wrote:

SO much misinformation on this board, and unfortunatley, in the public.

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RJSimmons wrote: 

....Delay the trial until the co-conspirators have their day in court.....

LuvDaLions wrote:

DaveyBoy wrote: dude......Penn State benefitted greatly from being labeled as a "special place" and doing it cleaner than other schools like Ohio State.  Your own recruiting letters specifically referred to PSU having never had sanctions against it..... They still have have never broken an NCAA rule, although they were sanctioned

well, after this cover-up and after some of the revelations from folks that had been in the administration it appears that Joe Paterno ran that university with an iron fist. If he "ran the university", how did he get fired???  He demanded special treatment for players in the areas of classes and discipline. He wanted to dicipline his players in his own way, which was usually worse that what the university would do, this is true, but he never demanded special treatment in the class, quite the opposite actually.

I'm sorry, every positive factor regarding Paterno's program comes with a great deal of srutiny.....his academic record has a big asterisk in my mind.

If he would cover up for Sandusky raping boys, I'm sure he would cover up for extra benefits and grade inflation for athletes. This is the part that just astounds me, he reported the crime to his superiors just as he was required to do, how does "reporting it" constitute a "cover up"? Does this even make any sense to you?

the emperor has no clothes - NO, Sandusky had no clothes

indynittany wrote: 1) What if the only thing these supposed co-conspirators are guilty of is trying to send Sandusky a message that he needed to get help for his boundary issues?

2) And shouldn't they have had their day in court before the Freeh Report was finalized and before the NCAA took any action?

osulmb wrote: Corbett is a scumbag. I know a Pa State rep. He told us how Corbett did not want to dig into or find much info on the PSU scandal. he turned a blind eye.

Yet he had a bunch of investigators look for dirt on his political opponents.

Man oh man. 

All I hear constantly from PSU people is that these sanctions are "unjust." The only people I really hear that from are PSU people.

All of this...giving a coach a raise to be the third highest paid coach in the big ten when football was supposed to be de-emphasized, the denial that PSU should have sanctions from the entire fan base, the crazy actions of Franco Harris, the immortalizing of a football team this year because they went through so much "hardship" (nevermind the actual victims...the players are the REAL victims), the out of touch honoring of a LB who simply blew out his knee...didn't die, was not crippled, but had an injury countless other NCAA players have had, and now the lawsuit by Corbett...it all makes look PSU look out of touch with reality, and quite frankly, makes them look horrific.

My god...I will be honest, I was harsh on OSU, USC, Miami, etc...any other team that violated the rules....I would be harsh on Pitt, and dissapointed, but this is so much another level what PSU did. The fact that the fan base tries to deflect to what happened at UNC is laughable....child rape vs academic violations. That comparison, that I see quite a bit, in and of itself shows the mass delusion that PSU folks have.

For god's sake, just accept the sanctions. This is a football matter...covering up this crime was in fact done to make sure harm did not come on the program.

If you don't like the sanctions. LEAVE THE NCAA! It is a voluntary organization. Get out...you will be doing everyone a favor.

indynittany wrote: 1) What if the only thing these supposed co-conspirators are guilty of is trying to send Sandusky a message that he needed to get help for his boundary issues? This is the reason they put a manditory reporter law on the books. They got sick of listening to intelligent people (like Spanier and Curley) make excuses about what they thought happened and why they didnt call the police. I dont care to hear excuses that include breaking the law. It is not, nor never was the PSU administration's responsibility to determine WHAT the issue may have been. It was their responsibility to report it to the police and let them handle it. They didnt do that. They tried to "send a message" to Jerry asking him not to do those things on the PSU campus. What they got in response was a big FU! And even after that, they didnt do anything.

2) And shouldn't they have had their day in court before the Freeh Report was finalized and before the NCAA took any action? I didnt commission the Freeh report. Neither did anyone outside of Penn State. Once they did, the NCAA ran with the findings. The findings that the retarded BOTs accepted as fact before they even read them. 
Once again, you have an administration problem. Not an NCAA problem and not a legal problem. Most of the same retards are still sitting on that Board. So I dont understand what Corbett is all bent out of shape for. He hasnt even got the guts to ****-can those worthless POS. Why should a judge or the public listen to him?

RJSimmons wrote: 

....Delay the trial until the co-conspirators have their day in court.....

indynittany wrote: 1) What if the only thing these supposed co-conspirators are guilty of is trying to send Sandusky a message that he needed to get help for his boundary issues?

2) And shouldn't they have had their day in court before the Freeh Report was finalized and before the NCAA took any action?

RJSimmons wrote: 

....Delay the trial until the co-conspirators have their day in court.....

humanity wrote: Corbett is very calculating. It's purely a political ploy but at the same time, the NCAA so severely overstepped their bounds that this suit may be the one that takes down the NCAA.

Corbett starting referring to the NCAA as a "trade organization" as early as June. That should have been your first clue that an anti-trust suit was coming. He needed to wait through the season to have standing and if he can now establish he does, this case is a slam dunk. Anti-trust suits and the NCAA don't go well together.

I would think that regardless of one's opinion on what happened at Penn State, everyone would be looking forward to the destruction of the NCAA. It may be the most inept, corrupt, clueless organization this side of the IOC.

PiratesandPitt wrote:

Man oh man. 

All I hear constantly from PSU people is that these sanctions are "unjust." The only people I really hear that from are PSU people.

All of this...giving a coach a raise to be the third highest paid coach in the big ten when football was supposed to be de-emphasized, the denial that PSU should have sanctions from the entire fan base, the crazy actions of Franco Harris, the immortalizing of a football team this year because they went through so much "hardship" (nevermind the actual victims...the players are the REAL victims) at least two of the victims have publically come out and said through their attorneys that they disagree with the NCAA's sanctions, the out of touch honoring of a LB who simply blew out his knee...didn't die, was not crippled, but had an injury countless other NCAA players have had, so now you even want to dictate how we thank our players??? and now the lawsuit by Corbett... good, you're finally seeing what an absolute piece of scum he really is. We've been telling you that for months. it all makes look PSU look out of touch with reality, and quite frankly, makes them look horrific. What's "horrific" is your piece of crap, slimy Governor and corupt Attorney General's Office using and protecting The Second Mile as a cash cow for the Republican Party all these years until he blew a gasket over a bitter political battle with Graham Spanier over funding for higher education in the State of Pennsylvania (which, by the way, would have negatively affected Pitt).

My god...I will be honest, I was harsh on OSU, USC, Miami, etc...any other team that violated the rules....I would be harsh on Pitt, and dissapointed, but this is so much another level what PSU did. The fact that the fan base tries to deflect to what happened at UNC is laughable....child rape vs academic violations. That comparison, that I see quite a bit, in and of itself shows the mass delusion that PSU folks have.

For god's sake, just accept the sanctions. This is a football matter... Why was it a football matter in 2001? Sandusky didn't work at Penn State. covering up this crime was in fact done to make sure harm did not come on the program. If they were covering up the crime, why were Schultz and Spanier so stupid that they had Curley report it to the CEO of an outside organization that was required by State Law to Report it to Child Youth Services?
If you don't like the sanctions. LEAVE THE NCAA! It is a voluntary organization. Get out...you will be doing everyone a favor. Especially Pitt.

BuffaloLion wrote:

PiratesandPitt wrote:

Man oh man. 

All I hear constantly from PSU people is that these sanctions are "unjust." The only people I really hear that from are PSU people.

All of this...giving a coach a raise to be the third highest paid coach in the big ten when football was supposed to be de-emphasized, the denial that PSU should have sanctions from the entire fan base, the crazy actions of Franco Harris, the immortalizing of a football team this year because they went through so much "hardship" (nevermind the actual victims...the players are the REAL victims) at least two of the victims have publically come out and said through their attorneys that they disagree with the NCAA's sanctions, the out of touch honoring of a LB who simply blew out his knee...didn't die, was not crippled, but had an injury countless other NCAA players have had, so now you even want to dictate how we thank our players??? and now the lawsuit by Corbett... good, you're finally seeing what an absolute piece of scum he really is. We've been telling you that for months. it all makes look PSU look out of touch with reality, and quite frankly, makes them look horrific. What's "horrific" is your piece of crap, slimy Governor and corupt Attorney General's Office using and protecting The Second Mile as a cash cow for the Republican Party all these years until he blew a gasket over a bitter political battle with Graham Spanier over funding for higher education in the State of Pennsylvania (which, by the way, would have negatively affected Pitt).

My god...I will be honest, I was harsh on OSU, USC, Miami, etc...any other team that violated the rules....I would be harsh on Pitt, and dissapointed, but this is so much another level what PSU did. The fact that the fan base tries to deflect to what happened at UNC is laughable....child rape vs academic violations. That comparison, that I see quite a bit, in and of itself shows the mass delusion that PSU folks have.

For god's sake, just accept the sanctions. This is a football matter... Why was it a football matter in 2001? Sandusky didn't work at Penn State. covering up this crime was in fact done to make sure harm did not come on the program. If they were covering up the crime, why were Schultz and Spanier so stupid that they had Curley report it to the CEO of an outside organization that was required by State Law to Report it to Child Youth Services?
If you don't like the sanctions. LEAVE THE NCAA! It is a voluntary organization. Get out...you will be doing everyone a favor. Especially Pitt.

RJSimmons wrote:

indynittany wrote: 1) What if the only thing these supposed co-conspirators are guilty of is trying to send Sandusky a message that he needed to get help for his boundary issues? This is the reason they put a manditory reporter law on the books. They got sick of listening to intelligent people (like Spanier and Curley) make excuses about what they thought happened and why they didnt call the police. I dont care to hear excuses that include breaking the law. It is not, nor never was the PSU administration's responsibility to determine WHAT the issue may have been. It was their responsibility to report it to the police and let them handle it. They didnt do that. They tried to "send a message" to Jerry asking him not to do those things on the PSU campus. What they got in response was a big FU! And even after that, they didnt do anything.

2) And shouldn't they have had their day in court before the Freeh Report was finalized and before the NCAA took any action? I didnt commission the Freeh report. Neither did anyone outside of Penn State. Once they did, the NCAA ran with the findings. The findings that the retarded BOTs accepted as fact before they even read them. 
Once again, you have an administration problem. Not an NCAA problem and not a legal problem. Most of the same retards are still sitting on that Board. So I dont understand what Corbett is all bent out of shape for. He hasnt even got the guts to ****-can those worthless POS. Why should a judge or the public listen to him?

RJSimmons wrote: 

....Delay the trial until the co-conspirators have their day in court.....

indynittany wrote:

RJSimmons wrote:

indynittany wrote: 1) What if the only thing these supposed co-conspirators are guilty of is trying to send Sandusky a message that he needed to get help for his boundary issues? This is the reason they put a manditory reporter law on the books. They got sick of listening to intelligent people (like Spanier and Curley) make excuses about what they thought happened and why they didnt call the police. I dont care to hear excuses that include breaking the law. It is not, nor never was the PSU administration's responsibility to determine WHAT the issue may have been. It was their responsibility to report it to the police and let them handle it. They didnt do that. They tried to "send a message" to Jerry asking him not to do those things on the PSU campus. What they got in response was a big FU! And even after that, they didnt do anything.

2) And shouldn't they have had their day in court before the Freeh Report was finalized and before the NCAA took any action? I didnt commission the Freeh report. Neither did anyone outside of Penn State. Once they did, the NCAA ran with the findings. The findings that the retarded BOTs accepted as fact before they even read them. 
Once again, you have an administration problem. Not an NCAA problem and not a legal problem. Most of the same retards are still sitting on that Board. So I dont understand what Corbett is all bent out of shape for. He hasnt even got the guts to ****-can those worthless POS. Why should a judge or the public listen to him?

RJSimmons wrote: 

....Delay the trial until the co-conspirators have their day in court.....

1) The emails indicate clearly that they considered contacting DPW.  They also indicate that if Sandusky admitted that his behavior was wrong and agreed to address it ("hear our message and act upon it...") that reporting to DPW was not necessary.  Schultz and Spanier told Curley that they admired him for being willing to have such a difficult conversation with Sandusky and that this was a more humane and reasonable approach.  Whatever they were told, it had to have fallen in a gray area for a reason.  Either McQueary walked in on Sandusky "grooming" that boy, which is essentially what had happened in '98, or he simply didn't see enough to convince anyone that what he saw merited reporting.

You can argue (with the benefit of hindsight) that they should have reported it, and I'm sure they would all agree, but that doesn't change the strong probability that they thought they were doing the right thing given the information they had.  That is an unfortunate mistake, but not a scandal.

2) I mostly agree with you.  However, Corbett is the biggest POS of them all.  And the Freeh report was commissioned for the express purpose of justifying the BOT's screwjob of Paterno and to keep people from looking into the real people who had been enabling Sandusky all these years.

There is a scandal, but it was never with the football program. 

As for the NCAA, Emmert took great pleasure in coming down on PSU, especially Paterno.  For the same reason people here hate Penn State, so did the NCAA.  Paterno made his Grand Experiment work for four decades and he wasn't above rubbing it in the NCAA's hypocritical faces.  Penn State stood out and in the process made the NCAA look foolish.  And with our 91% graduation rate this past year, we still are.

That said.  Corbett has a great case.  His motives are self serving and he'll eventually be exposed, but that doesn't change the fact that the NCAA has only hurt the innocent here and should have stayed out if it.