buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

The B1G should never attempt to get Kansas.  The B1G needs more football schools and needs densely populated states.

Kansas has neither and their basketball program isn't valuable enough to take up one of the remaining spots in the B1G.  

I would much prefer the B1G go after FSU.

WinchesterBUCK wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

---------------------------------------------

Really? What does the GoR say? What are the terms?

There have been numerous articles written, quotes given from conference leaders and media giants like ESPN, CBS, NBC, Sports Illustrated, etc., etc. etc. 

Every one of them has stated that the BIG 12's GOR virtually eliminates the possibility of a BIG 12 team being invited anywhere because the conference inviting them wouldn't be able to earn anything from them.  Add that information, the knowledge that the tv partners, conference and its members, and all of their lawyers worked on these agreements for months--and the fact that the B1G 10 has its own GOR that would be pretty much wiped out if they tried to destroy someone elses --and you have all the info you need.

You aren't ever going to read the B1G 10's, PAC 12's or BIG 12's GOR contracts--its never going to happen.  That doesn't mean they aren't the most effective means of keeping schools in conferences.  Notice that no conference with GOR's has lost any schools and the ACC can't get one passed because the schools know they wouldn't be able to leave if they signed one.

cd2007 wrote:

buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

The B1G should never attempt to get Kansas.  The B1G needs more football schools and needs densely populated states.

Kansas has neither and their basketball program isn't valuable enough to take up one of the remaining spots in the B1G.  

I would much prefer the B1G go after FSU.

I don't think the B1G has an interest in Kansas, plus they know that Kansas isn't moving due to its present affiliation and earnings and GOR's for the tv contract and Sugar Bowl contract.  The B1G has an interest in Notre Dame from the midwest, schools in the southeast and better recruiting grounds.

Really its probably a matter of waiting out the Maryland/ACC lawsuits and then moving on with schools like UVA and maybe UNC or Georgia Tech.  Can't see any ACC schools holding out long term when there is so much more money in the four power conferences, and a league like the B1G also offers the CIC, bether athletics, etc.  "Tradition" only gets those schools so far.

I think things may be cut loose a bit now that NSD is over and winter meetings are happening.

cd2007 wrote:

buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

The B1G should never attempt to get Kansas.  The B1G needs more football schools and needs densely populated states.

Kansas has neither and their basketball program isn't valuable enough to take up one of the remaining spots in the B1G.  

I would much prefer the B1G go after FSU.

I agree, FSU and Gatech would be my two, then if they want to 20, then UNC, UVA, then maybe Kansas and Notre Dame/Duke/Clemson/Texas.....one of those four

buckeye4573 wrote:

cd2007 wrote:

buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

The B1G should never attempt to get Kansas.  The B1G needs more football schools and needs densely populated states.

Kansas has neither and their basketball program isn't valuable enough to take up one of the remaining spots in the B1G.  

I would much prefer the B1G go after FSU.

I agree, FSU and Gatech would be my two, then if they want to 20, then UNC, UVA, then maybe Kansas and Notre Dame/Duke/Clemson/Texas.....one of those four

Flagship state school + superior academic profile + solid all-around athletic department is the template, academic/research/grant $$ trump athletic $$ by a lot. This is why UVa and UNC are higher on the pecking order than GaTech and FSU. Get the first two and then let's see about the others.

Piss on UNC.  They are holding up the process and need to learn their place in the pecking order.  That school is a Gem but they should not feel they control the Big Ten.

Time to invite Duke to join Virginia as #16.  Have fun with Virginia Tech in joining the SEC North Carolina.  With that, UNC can consider their bluff Called!  Want to continue to play hardball?  Alright, time to go deep and invite another AAU University.  Along with them invite an up and coming University on the academic side that may very well land AAU status in the future.  Oh...they also are a top tier football program that just landed another top ten recruiting class.  Invite GT and FSU for 17 and 18. 

Last chance at that point for UNC.  There ARE other options to round out the Big Ten with numbers 19 and 20.  UNC CAN be left behind to rot in the SEC.  Time for them to realize where they sit in the greater pecking order outside of the ACC.

He1nousOne wrote: Piss on UNC.  They are holding up the process and need to learn their place in the pecking order.  That school is a Gem but they should not feel they control the Big Ten.

Time to invite Duke to join Virginia as #16.  Have fun with Virginia Tech in joining the SEC North Carolina.  With that, UNC can consider their bluff Called!  Want to continue to play hardball?  Alright, time to go deep and invite another AAU University.  Along with them invite an up and coming University on the academic side that may very well land AAU status in the future.  Oh...they also are a top tier football program that just landed another top ten recruiting class.  Invite GT and FSU for 17 and 18. 

Last chance at that point for UNC.  There ARE other options to round out the Big Ten with numbers 19 and 20.  UNC CAN be left behind to rot in the SEC.  Time for them to realize where they sit in the greater pecking order outside of the ACC.

I'm curious why you're getting so animated and worked up about sports events that are waaaaaay beyond your ability to control.

FWIW, I hope the ACC holds it together and doesn't end up disbanding to the SEC, the B1G, or the Big 12. Given that they've got an ACC Network beginning this Spring 2013, I hope that that endeavor helps hold that conference together. I'm frankly not a fan of an 18-to-20 team B1G, although I'll certainly accept it if it comes to pass.

The ACC culture doesn't really fit well with either the B1G or the SEC, and in any event, it doesn't mean anything until everybody knows how much of that $50 million exit fee Maryland will have to pay after the court case is argued or settled.

cd2007 wrote:

buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

The B1G should never attempt to get Kansas.  The B1G needs more football schools and needs densely populated states.

Kansas has neither and their basketball program isn't valuable enough to take up one of the remaining spots in the B1G.  

I would much prefer the B1G go after FSU.

So why does Virginia make sense but Kansas don't if the B1G needs more football schools?.. KU is a national brand in basketball, and more hoops games are televised on BTN then football, UVA is a national brand in neither sport. KU delivers the #29 TV market in KC, Richmond is like market size number 58.

So I like to read and keep up with the theories of expansion, but I don't put much stock into them until it happens.  A few weeks ago my friend and I were talking, "his dad is a ND alum and donates, however i have no idea how much he donates."  and he told me ND isn't going to try and leave the Big East early like the other schools.  I asked him why he thought that, and he said his dad said...."i know he said she said"....  ND isn't sure the ACC isn't going to get picked apart by the SEC, Big 10 and 12 and ND still wanted to keep their options open including falling back on the Big East or Cath 7 like B State and SD state did with the M. West.  I laughed and told him they would leave as soon as they could because the other teams leaving were. 

Then yesterday i heard on XM 91 that ND announced they would not be leaving early.  It makes me wonder if ND has some inside knowledge of what could be happening with future moves in expansion.  Then again it all could be B.S. 

I am curious though if anyone else has heard anything like this.

luvthatblue wrote:

cd2007 wrote:

buckaineer wrote:

WinchesterBUCK wrote: B1G passed on Mizzou. That is not happening.

Kansas is higher on the pecking order if we are talking about a Plains school.

Cincinnati is the only midwestern school the Big has a guaranteed shot at (from a BCS conference).  They obviously want Notre Dame.  They'll have to wait over a decade to attempt to pry Kansas loose, but by then the BIG 12 will already have a new tv contract on hand.

The B1G should never attempt to get Kansas.  The B1G needs more football schools and needs densely populated states.

Kansas has neither and their basketball program isn't valuable enough to take up one of the remaining spots in the B1G.  

I would much prefer the B1G go after FSU.

So why does Virginia make sense but Kansas don't if the B1G needs more football schools?.. KU is a national brand in basketball, and more hoops games are televised on BTN then football, UVA is a national brand in neither sport. KU delivers the #29 TV market in KC, Richmond is like market size number 58.

Kansas is in the rust belt and the B1G set a goal of expanding the footprint southeast into higher populated areas.  Success in sports is at the bottom of the list if it's even on the list at all.

Virginia is excellent prestigious university, it's in the southeast, it's a continuous state headed southeast, it solidifies the DC market..  etc etc..

The only way I see Kansas as a B1G thought would be as possible addition #20 and only after adding 4 eastern schools, ND, and being turned down by Missouri.  

Besides, Kansas signed the B12 GOR..  which makes them even less desirable to the B1G.

For what it's worth, I received a copy of the Big 12's grant of rights agreement through a records request. I'll post some more details later on!

KyleSLamb wrote: For what it's worth, I received a copy of the Big 12's grant of rights agreement through a records request. I'll post some more details later on!

You're so new to this Kyle.  You're supposed to tweet something like that and then make a blog posting that is completely fabricated.  That's how this game is played.

coopercougar wrote:

KyleSLamb wrote: For what it's worth, I received a copy of the Big 12's grant of rights agreement through a records request. I'll post some more details later on!

You're so new to this Kyle.  You're supposed to tweet something like that and then make a blog posting that is completely fabricated.  That's how this game is played.

I should have said that super secret sources confirmed the details of the agreement for me.

KyleSLamb wrote: 
I should have said that super secret sources confirmed the details of the agreement for me.

Make sure you cite multiple (imaginary) sources from different leagues.  Makes it sound totally legit.

OK here is an overview of the Big 12 Grant of Rights agreement. This agreement was obtained by an Open Records request through the University of Oklahoma, being a signed contract by a public university.

Big 12 Grant of Rights overview:

* The agreement is a signed addendum by member schools dated July 1, 2012 to the television agreement made with the Big 12, ESPN and FOX. The agreement lasts through June 30, 2025

* All prospective members of the league must agree to sign and be added to the addendum as a condition of membership

* The Grant of Rights does not transfer ownership of rights, but rather grants rights to the league to fulfill the television contract for the duration of the agreement. It does, however, give the league ownership/copyright of an audiovisual reproduction

* The league is granted rights to all games present and future that are currently given to television partners, which constitutes home football and basketball games, excepting certain third tier games ("retained rights"). The school, even if it elects to leave the Big 12 conference, will continue to have its "retained rights" meaning that any game not exercised by television partners, would revert back to the school (to presumably be contracted back to a new league).

* This means that essentially the league retains all future tier-1 rights through 2025 of home contests, except the existing rights the schools have to broadcast one home football game and select home basketball games.

* There is no exit fee or buyout specifically stated in the addendum

* Additionally, the institution retains all rights and ownership to ancillary programming

fatchuck wrote:

He1nousOne wrote: Piss on UNC.  They are holding up the process and need to learn their place in the pecking order.  That school is a Gem but they should not feel they control the Big Ten.

Time to invite Duke to join Virginia as #16.  Have fun with Virginia Tech in joining the SEC North Carolina.  With that, UNC can consider their bluff Called!  Want to continue to play hardball?  Alright, time to go deep and invite another AAU University.  Along with them invite an up and coming University on the academic side that may very well land AAU status in the future.  Oh...they also are a top tier football program that just landed another top ten recruiting class.  Invite GT and FSU for 17 and 18. 

Last chance at that point for UNC.  There ARE other options to round out the Big Ten with numbers 19 and 20.  UNC CAN be left behind to rot in the SEC.  Time for them to realize where they sit in the greater pecking order outside of the ACC.

I'm curious why you're getting so animated and worked up about sports events that are waaaaaay beyond your ability to control.

FWIW, I hope the ACC holds it together and doesn't end up disbanding to the SEC, the B1G, or the Big 12. Given that they've got an ACC Network beginning this Spring 2013, I hope that that endeavor helps hold that conference together. I'm frankly not a fan of an 18-to-20 team B1G, although I'll certainly accept it if it comes to pass.

The ACC culture doesn't really fit well with either the B1G or the SEC, and in any event, it doesn't mean anything until everybody knows how much of that $50 million exit fee Maryland will have to pay after the court case is argued or settled.

It is called creative writing. 

KyleSLamb wrote: OK here is an overview of the Big 12 Grant of Rights agreement. This agreement was obtained by an Open Records request through the University of Oklahoma, being a signed contract by a public university.

Big 12 Grant of Rights overview:

* The agreement is a signed addendum by member schools dated July 1, 2012 to the television agreement made with the Big 12, ESPN and FOX. The agreement lasts through June 30, 2025

* All prospective members of the league must agree to sign and be added to the addendum as a condition of membership

* The Grant of Rights does not transfer ownership of rights, but rather grants rights to the league to fulfill the television contract for the duration of the agreement. It does, however, give the league ownership/copyright of an audiovisual reproduction

* The league is granted rights to all games present and future that are currently given to television partners, which constitutes home football and basketball games, excepting certain third tier games ("retained rights"). The school, even if it elects to leave the Big 12 conference, will continue to have its "retained rights" meaning that any game not exercised by television partners, would revert back to the school (to presumably be contracted back to a new league).

* This means that essentially the league retains all future tier-1 rights through 2025 of home contests, except the existing rights the schools have to broadcast one home football game and select home basketball games.

* There is no exit fee or buyout specifically stated in the addendum

* Additionally, the institution retains all rights and ownership to ancillary programming

Key word in it all is home games.  That is why this particular GoR solidly holds in a school like Texas where as a school like Kansas which isn't as desired for it's home football games might be able to slip away because it would still have enough away games for its basketball team that it could still be desirable to a conference for that.

Without an Exit Fee, GoR's like this end up not being equal treatment.  Don't tell that to Big 12 fans though.  They think it is equivalent to hand cuffs, which is because they fear the conference needs something akin to handcuffs.

He1nousOne wrote:

KyleSLamb wrote: OK here is an overview of the Big 12 Grant of Rights agreement. This agreement was obtained by an Open Records request through the University of Oklahoma, being a signed contract by a public university.

Big 12 Grant of Rights overview:

* The agreement is a signed addendum by member schools dated July 1, 2012 to the television agreement made with the Big 12, ESPN and FOX. The agreement lasts through June 30, 2025

* All prospective members of the league must agree to sign and be added to the addendum as a condition of membership

* The Grant of Rights does not transfer ownership of rights, but rather grants rights to the league to fulfill the television contract for the duration of the agreement. It does, however, give the league ownership/copyright of an audiovisual reproduction

* The league is granted rights to all games present and future that are currently given to television partners, which constitutes home football and basketball games, excepting certain third tier games ("retained rights"). The school, even if it elects to leave the Big 12 conference, will continue to have its "retained rights" meaning that any game not exercised by television partners, would revert back to the school (to presumably be contracted back to a new league).

* This means that essentially the league retains all future tier-1 rights through 2025 of home contests, except the existing rights the schools have to broadcast one home football game and select home basketball games.

* There is no exit fee or buyout specifically stated in the addendum

* Additionally, the institution retains all rights and ownership to ancillary programming

Key word in it all is home games.  That is why this particular GoR solidly holds in a school like Texas where as a school like Kansas which isn't as desired for it's home football games might be able to slip away because it would still have enough away games for its basketball team that it could still be desirable to a conference for that.

Without an Exit Fee, GoR's like this end up not being equal treatment.  Don't tell that to Big 12 fans though.  They think it is equivalent to hand cuffs, which is because they fear the conference needs something akin to handcuffs.

And there are loopholes to get around the Grant of Rights too, for a conference willing to get creative and make it worth a school's while. For instance, thinking out loud, playing a "neutral site" game where the conference reimburses any lost revenue due to selling off a portion of the home gate.

I'd love to hear the truth behind the Rutgers add someday. If they were worthy of a B10 offer, you'd think they would have been in play for other conferences, but they never came up. Teams were switching all around them, so why not Rutgers? It makes me think their addition was known for a lot longer than we suspect.

And if that's true, I'd really like to get someone into Delaney's office for 5 minutes.