NorfolkVaTiger wrote: Are you aware of the different rates the BTN gets for footprint states vs non footprint states?  From your post below it appears you don't realize the BTN gets significantly more per cable subscriber in states within the footprint, than in states not within the footprint.

That's a big driver in adding RU and MD, and, assuming the current revenue model continues, will in fact add significant revenue to the BTN.

On a separate topic, not all of the big cable providers have a contract with the BTN.  I live in Hampton Roads, and Cox Cable (with about 400,000 households in this area) does not carry the BTN at all, not on any tier of service.  Simply not available.  Not sure about other areas that Cox services, but they are one of the largest cable providers in the country. 

rocknhoops wrote:

UGABuck wrote:

Expansion has an impact on TV Revenue in two ways: Basic Cable and Advertising Footprint. By example, adding Rutgers increases Basic Cable Fees A N D Advertising Footprint. The latter means that any Network bidder is going to bid more for the B1G contract because they have more Impressions. That's Business 101. To argue the addition of Rutgers doesn't impact both the Cable Fees and Network Contracts should simply exclude you from any future posting on the subject.

Here's the simple thought experiment. Would ABC or Fox not bid more for the B1G with Rutgers? Comcast, Verizon, et al are going to pay for the BTN just like Fox or ABC will pay more for Tier 1 rights.

I understand visitors from other conferences feel like JD is running expansion, forcing lesser conferences into lower valuables positions and generally setting the pace. He is. However, don't spend too much time here trying to tell us otherwise. Notre Dame fans used to do that.

the networks are already showing the B10 games in every mkt, including NJ and every other state in the nation.

i doubt showing RU vs Iowa instead of Wisc vs MSU in that same time slot, is going to move the ratings meter all that much in NJ, let alone the rest of New England, let alone have any effect on the national ratings' number. 

RU-Iowa isn't Yankees vs Red Sox, or Patriots vs Jets, and national networks aren't going to think otherwise. 

since all the big cable and satellite guys have national contracts with the programmers, i'll assume Disney already gets the same per sub fee for the ESPNs from Comcast in NJ as they do for subs in Wisc or Mich or Ohio or Ind.

adding RU won't change that.

any impact expansion schools will make on future 1st tier negotiations is purely subjective at best.

and no media guru alive can quantify exactly what, if any, impact adding RU could have on future negotiations yrs from now.

that said, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, tier rights are already national. as in ALL 50 STATES NOW,

just understanding the basic concept that everything the B10 does already has a 50 state audience, and revenues from all 50 states, should cause anyone with any understanding of numbers what so ever, to realize that no one school can increase revenues enough to justify a full share of the already national revenue model.

if the B10 audience and revenue model were relegated to the current B10 9 state footprint, then one could project that adding RU could arguably increase that revenue model proportional to cover 1 equal share.

but the B10 audience and revenue model isn't confined to the current footprint.

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

therefore they can't. 


even if someone were terrible with numbers, just having common sense and knowing B10 revenue at all tiers is already based in a 50 state model, not a 9 state one, should set off a red flag that incrementally increasing revenues some percentage in any one state, can't offset a full share of that 50 state model. 




and btw, i don't think JD is running expansion. i think News Corp is.

BTN is News Corp's network, not the B10's. (wherein possibly lies the real key behind all this insanity).

JD is merely News Corp's bitch.

and whether all this is really about BTN, or Fox1, or speculating on future tier 1 negotiations, or the future national champ play off, (which Delany has tried to undermine or control for how long?), regardless, i think Delany and the school "powers that be" that are following his lead, have totally lost perspective and their sense of priorities.

they've also lost sight that they are merely caretakers of a 100 plus yr old conference.

not owners. 

sorry you can't get BTN. 

i know Cox does offer BTN, including the overflow channels, in Phoenix Az, so i'm guessing Cox offers it other places as well. (maybe because the PAC and the Suns have a Fox affiliation)

Directv, Comcast, Dish Net, a lot of Time Warner systems, UVerse, Fios, Insight, Bright House, and many other providers, do offer BTN out of footprint. 






adding a school only increases fees within one state, (and only hopefully at that. there are no guarantees).

i've done the math and broken down the increased revenues from flipping states from paying "out of footprint" BTN fees to paying "in footprint" fees numerous times here.

the increased revenues from flipping a school never even come close to covering the extra share.

please re-consider what i just said about the league operating on a 50 state revenue model, not a 9 state one, and try to grasp the fundamental concept there in.

when one grasps and accepts that the B10 operates on a 50 state revenue model, not a 9 state one, then they can grasp not only that expansion schools don't cover the extra share, (even with the increased sub fees in their state),

but more importantly, they can then grasp WHY they can't cover the extra share.  



on a side note, do you and your friends want the ACC to remain intact, and UVa to stay in the ACC, or would you rather go to another conference?

if so, what conference, and why?  

NewOrleansBuckeye wrote:

1984gator wrote: The B1G and SEC employ very different strategies.  Both want viewer dollars but the SEC has developed a very big qualitative lead! Recruiting is at the core of this as is the culture of football in the south.   Product quality is more important to the SEC's expansion plans than it is apparently the B1G.  The ACC and BEast went their route and failed!

Give me a fen’ break on this!!

If quality is the core just how did South Carolina or Arkansas make it in your first expansion?  Yea!! at one time Arkansas was a good team, fen’ South Carolina was never any damn good and until just recently broke the 500 mark in wins. Missouri and Texas A&M brought what the sec needed the most a couple teams with a pulse when it comes to education and A&M is a decent football team.

 

I’ll give you recruiting, hell it don’t take a fen’ rocket scientist to figure out where the speed players are at. Now culture is another fen’ story!!!

 

Culture- “a group of people who share beliefs and practices”.

 

Now as far as football and culture, your getting a little confused here, the Big-Ten States have 243 different (4-year) colleges who play football compared to 145 SEC States and that includes Texas and Missouri who make up 39% with 56 of those. Plus we can add 19 more when Maryland and N.J join us. Maybe your just thinking Big-Name football teams  well thats just fine but culture is more than just a fen’  Bama or Tennessee, etc, etc.

 

Now; lets fen’ talk Florida ; my first job out of college was at RCA Data Processing in West Palm Beach , bought a house in Jupiter. Yea this was before segregation; the only team worth taking about was Miami, whom by the way up until 1980 only had six All-Americans, your school the Gator’s, when I first moved there didn’t have any, Steve Spurrier would give Florida its first All American in 1966 a year after I moved to Jupiter.

 

The only thing Jupiter bragged about, and I missed him (3 years older) was Burt Reynolds (born in Michigan) went to Florida State, but he went to Palm Beach HS not Jupiter HS, and I never did figure that one out!!

 

If you graduated in 1984 you probably only seen three All-Americans ( Marshall , two times) during your stay in Gainesville . That is not fen’ culture that’s called fen’ LUCK!!  

1984gator wrote: The SEC isn't buying the past, its investing in the future.  No team in the B1G or B12 could have beaten A&M this year. 

lowiq wrote: va keep in mind i mainly have to go by results since i havent followed the big ten as closely or as long as ohio state fans have.

i know alverez inherited a program that had basically been dead for 30 years and left bielama in a lot better shape program wise.

i have seen on here people bring up the rose bowls as the reason barry should get the nod but if you look at each game bret had a LOT tougher oppoent level.

barry beat an 8-4 ucla that ranked 18th, a 10-2 ucla that ranked 8th and an unranked 8-4 stanford. remember usc was down in the 90s and oregon hadnt grown up yet.

bret lost by 2 points to unbeaten number 2 ranked tcu and by a touchdown to 12-2 number 4 oregon. he is also the only coach to ever win a big ten championship game.

overall winning % beilama .739 and alvarez .612.

in 16 seasons barry finished ranked 6 times.
in 7 seasons bret finished ranked 5 times.

people on here seem to LIKE barry in general.
people on here seem to DISLIKE bret in general.

actual results on the field are tilted in brets favor though.

lowiq wrote:

i dont see how you consider me "spinning" anything to compare the teams each had to play in their rose bowls.

lowiq wrote: any time i ever do anything on any bcs team i always use the bcs schools since they all have a conference schedule at least somewhat like all other bcs schools.

lowiq wrote:

based on the overall body of work its clear bielama was the most successful coach wisconsin has ever had.

RidgeRoadRattler wrote: low,

I live in Madison and to suggest Bielema is even comparable to Barry is assenine. As a Buckeye I never liked either of them, but Barry trained a dead horse to trot and Brett trained a horse that could trot to keep trotting. You bring up conference winning percentages, yet fail to judge the conference's strength in the 90s and early 2000s vs today. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State were consistent top 10 teams during Barry's tenure. You point out that Bielema is the only coach to win the Big Ten title game - 1. There's only been two and 2. His team finished behind two ineligible teams. I usually put a lot of consideration towards your posts, but this is clearly random fact grabbing on your part here.

That said, can we get back to actual expansion discussion? I'm keeping up with this thread for updates on UVA and the ACC schools...not for more SEC debates

va1bucksfan1 wrote:

lowiq wrote:

based on the overall body of work its clear bielama was the most successful coach wisconsin has ever had.

Yeah, turning around a dead program into one that was ranked, nationally respected, a 3 time Rose Bowl winner, and winner of 8 of 11 bowl games is definitely less successful than what Bielema did.

And statistically, Urban Meyer is the most successful coach in the history of Ohio State.

Again, step away from the database sometime and think about context.

87falcon44 wrote: SCar is not better than every team in the big. Didn't a NC contender from the SEC just get their asses kicked by the big east. For someone who is coming off an embarrassing loss by getting your ass beat by the big east, you sure do a lot of gum flapping.

---------------------------------------------
--- 1984gator wrote:

Well excuse me that expansion was more than 20 years ago and don't look now but South carolina is better than any team in in the B1G.  While you're at it, check out attendance.  Arky's made a few SEC title games too!  Wasn't it just a couple years ago that your conference champion barely beat the SEC 4th place team, even withillegal players.  Wasn't the victory vacated?

NewOrleansBuckeye wrote:

1984gator wrote: The B1G and SEC employ very different strategies.  Both want viewer dollars but the SEC has developed a very big qualitative lead! Recruiting is at the core of this as is the culture of football in the south.   Product quality is more important to the SEC's expansion plans than it is apparently the B1G.  The ACC and BEast went their route and failed!

Give me a fen’ break on this!!

If quality is the core just how did South Carolina or Arkansas make it in your first expansion?  Yea!! at one time Arkansas was a good team, fen’ South Carolina was never any damn good and until just recently broke the 500 mark in wins. Missouri and Texas A&M brought what the sec needed the most a couple teams with a pulse when it comes to education and A&M is a decent football team.

 

I’ll give you recruiting, hell it don’t take a fen’ rocket scientist to figure out where the speed players are at. Now culture is another fen’ story!!!

 

Culture- “a group of people who share beliefs and practices”.

 

Now as far as football and culture, your getting a little confused here, the Big-Ten States have 243 different (4-year) colleges who play football compared to 145 SEC States and that includes Texas and Missouri who make up 39% with 56 of those. Plus we can add 19 more when Maryland and N.J join us. Maybe your just thinking Big-Name football teams  well thats just fine but culture is more than just a fen’  Bama or Tennessee, etc, etc.

 

Now; lets fen’ talk Florida ; my first job out of college was at RCA Data Processing in West Palm Beach , bought a house in Jupiter. Yea this was before segregation; the only team worth taking about was Miami, whom by the way up until 1980 only had six All-Americans, your school the Gator’s, when I first moved there didn’t have any, Steve Spurrier would give Florida its first All American in 1966 a year after I moved to Jupiter.

 

The only thing Jupiter bragged about, and I missed him (3 years older) was Burt Reynolds (born in Michigan) went to Florida State, but he went to Palm Beach HS not Jupiter HS, and I never did figure that one out!!

 

If you graduated in 1984 you probably only seen three All-Americans ( Marshall , two times) during your stay in Gainesville . That is not fen’ culture that’s called fen’ LUCK!!  

---------------------------------------------

1984gator wrote: There was no team in the B1G that could have beaten USCe this year.  Florida narrowly missed it's shot at the title game and let down in the bowl.  So what?  Florida beat 4 teams in the BCS top 10 as well and will be back to do it again next year.  Bama had a similar let down in 08 when Florida beat them for a chance at the title and they dropped a game to Utah but nobody actually thinks utah was better team. 

The  SEC won the title for the 7 straight year and the SEC won most of its bowl games but how about the B1G?  How many years in a row has this been the case?  All you have to do is look at the recruiting strength of the conference to understand why that happened.  South Carolina was easily stronger than every team in the B1G.  Sorry, truth hurts, your team cheated and doesn't even qualify for consideration.... 

87falcon44 wrote: SCar is not better than every team in the big. Didn't a NC contender from the SEC just get their asses kicked by the big east. For someone who is coming off an embarrassing loss by getting your ass beat by the big east, you sure do a lot of gum flapping.

---------------------------------------------
--- 1984gator wrote:

Well excuse me that expansion was more than 20 years ago and don't look now but South carolina is better than any team in in the B1G.  While you're at it, check out attendance.  Arky's made a few SEC title games too!  Wasn't it just a couple years ago that your conference champion barely beat the SEC 4th place team, even withillegal players.  Wasn't the victory vacated?

NewOrleansBuckeye wrote:

1984gator wrote: The B1G and SEC employ very different strategies.  Both want viewer dollars but the SEC has developed a very big qualitative lead! Recruiting is at the core of this as is the culture of football in the south.   Product quality is more important to the SEC's expansion plans than it is apparently the B1G.  The ACC and BEast went their route and failed!

Give me a fen’ break on this!!

If quality is the core just how did South Carolina or Arkansas make it in your first expansion?  Yea!! at one time Arkansas was a good team, fen’ South Carolina was never any damn good and until just recently broke the 500 mark in wins. Missouri and Texas A&M brought what the sec needed the most a couple teams with a pulse when it comes to education and A&M is a decent football team.

 

I’ll give you recruiting, hell it don’t take a fen’ rocket scientist to figure out where the speed players are at. Now culture is another fen’ story!!!

 

Culture- “a group of people who share beliefs and practices”.

 

Now as far as football and culture, your getting a little confused here, the Big-Ten States have 243 different (4-year) colleges who play football compared to 145 SEC States and that includes Texas and Missouri who make up 39% with 56 of those. Plus we can add 19 more when Maryland and N.J join us. Maybe your just thinking Big-Name football teams  well thats just fine but culture is more than just a fen’  Bama or Tennessee, etc, etc.

 

Now; lets fen’ talk Florida ; my first job out of college was at RCA Data Processing in West Palm Beach , bought a house in Jupiter. Yea this was before segregation; the only team worth taking about was Miami, whom by the way up until 1980 only had six All-Americans, your school the Gator’s, when I first moved there didn’t have any, Steve Spurrier would give Florida its first All American in 1966 a year after I moved to Jupiter.

 

The only thing Jupiter bragged about, and I missed him (3 years older) was Burt Reynolds (born in Michigan) went to Florida State, but he went to Palm Beach HS not Jupiter HS, and I never did figure that one out!!

 

If you graduated in 1984 you probably only seen three All-Americans ( Marshall , two times) during your stay in Gainesville . That is not fen’ culture that’s called fen’ LUCK!!  

---------------------------------------------

1984gator wrote: There was no team in the B1G that could have beaten USCe this year.  Florida narrowly missed it's shot at the title game and let down in the bowl.  So what?  Florida beat 4 teams in the BCS top 10 as well and will be back to do it again next year.  Bama had a similar let down in 08 when Florida beat them for a chance at the title and they dropped a game to Utah but nobody actually thinks utah was better team. 

The  SEC won the title for the 7 straight year and the SEC won most of its bowl games but how about the B1G?  How many years in a row has this been the case?  All you have to do is look at the recruiting strength of the conference to understand why that happened.  South Carolina was easily stronger than every team in the B1G.  Sorry, truth hurts, your team cheated and doesn't even qualify for consideration.... 

87falcon44 wrote: SCar is not better than every team in the big. Didn't a NC contender from the SEC just get their asses kicked by the big east. For someone who is coming off an embarrassing loss by getting your ass beat by the big east, you sure do a lot of gum flapping.

---------------------------------------------
--- 1984gator wrote:

Well excuse me that expansion was more than 20 years ago and don't look now but South carolina is better than any team in in the B1G.  While you're at it, check out attendance.  Arky's made a few SEC title games too!  Wasn't it just a couple years ago that your conference champion barely beat the SEC 4th place team, even withillegal players.  Wasn't the victory vacated?

NewOrleansBuckeye wrote:

1984gator wrote: The B1G and SEC employ very different strategies.  Both want viewer dollars but the SEC has developed a very big qualitative lead! Recruiting is at the core of this as is the culture of football in the south.   Product quality is more important to the SEC's expansion plans than it is apparently the B1G.  The ACC and BEast went their route and failed!

Give me a fen’ break on this!!

If quality is the core just how did South Carolina or Arkansas make it in your first expansion?  Yea!! at one time Arkansas was a good team, fen’ South Carolina was never any damn good and until just recently broke the 500 mark in wins. Missouri and Texas A&M brought what the sec needed the most a couple teams with a pulse when it comes to education and A&M is a decent football team.

 

I’ll give you recruiting, hell it don’t take a fen’ rocket scientist to figure out where the speed players are at. Now culture is another fen’ story!!!

 

Culture- “a group of people who share beliefs and practices”.

 

Now as far as football and culture, your getting a little confused here, the Big-Ten States have 243 different (4-year) colleges who play football compared to 145 SEC States and that includes Texas and Missouri who make up 39% with 56 of those. Plus we can add 19 more when Maryland and N.J join us. Maybe your just thinking Big-Name football teams  well thats just fine but culture is more than just a fen’  Bama or Tennessee, etc, etc.

 

Now; lets fen’ talk Florida ; my first job out of college was at RCA Data Processing in West Palm Beach , bought a house in Jupiter. Yea this was before segregation; the only team worth taking about was Miami, whom by the way up until 1980 only had six All-Americans, your school the Gator’s, when I first moved there didn’t have any, Steve Spurrier would give Florida its first All American in 1966 a year after I moved to Jupiter.

 

The only thing Jupiter bragged about, and I missed him (3 years older) was Burt Reynolds (born in Michigan) went to Florida State, but he went to Palm Beach HS not Jupiter HS, and I never did figure that one out!!

 

If you graduated in 1984 you probably only seen three All-Americans ( Marshall , two times) during your stay in Gainesville . That is not fen’ culture that’s called fen’ LUCK!!  

---------------------------------------------