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Re: Question for SEC fans...

  • OPace
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  • 1624 posts this site
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:46 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


Personally? I learned it a while ago.
1984gator wrote: Oh Waah!  When will you stop crying and learn to be competitive?
OPace wrote: So the same entity prospering from oversigning is the one who is to guard against oversigning. Not exactly "checks and balances".
TideFaninFl wrote:
scooniebuck wrote:

I think one of the issues with Bama is that there have been reports that medical leaves weren't just for students with drug/alchohol issues, but were also used to keep underperforming athletes from counting against the scholarship totals.  I don't know if those  reports are true or not, but I think that's part of the reason some people might question Bama's scholarship numbers.
All of those medical leaves have to be approved by the SEC office.


cool
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Posted: 12/9/2012 7:45 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
Urban embarrassed by the SEC culture, you have to be shetting me, man. It is to early in the morning to read this complete BS... Urbie the texter and Urbie the bump rule, dude.. Come on and Urbie the Friday Night Light's guy, Urbie I feel your pain with recruits guy, that guy was sick of the SEC culture the one where he became the most aggressive recruiter in the SEC.. He stole more commits from other then any guy in the SEC.. He was the first guy I know in the SEC who used early enrollee's and such a high rate. Please, urbie left the SEC because he was getting caught up with and he knew it. Plus, Saban had his number and he took what he thought was his best team into the SEC title game against bama and got smoked and caused him to have a mental breakdown... Everybody in SEC country knows Urbie lost it and most he is still not the same coach.. Don't rewrite history, Urbie was not a nice guy on the recruiting trail, he was as cutthroat as they come and still is....
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Posted: 12/9/2012 8:13 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


I think you are wrong on that. THey all know you can only have 25 kids sign LOI's per year now but you can backcount early enrollee's back to the 2012 signing class. A/M undersigned by six last year so they could bring in six Early Enrollee's this year. It was a gamble by SUmlin but looks like it paid off big time... UGA is doing the samething, but they undersign every year like a bunch of fools no way UGA should ever undersign players in the state of GA.
See the new signing rule was really put in place so coaches would have to tell players before signing day if they planned to greyshirt them or not or not sign kids with grade problems to a LOI and not to have these thirty number signing classses from a PR standpoint..I think it is kind of dumb, myself. LOI means nothing if you cannot get into school, whats the harm of letting a kid with bad grades sign a LOI, I fail to see the harm. Now that, that rule is in place schools will figure something else out for players to sign, that is not a LOI, but something you wait it is coming.....
 Now on the EE deal, say you undersigned by six guys last year, you can bring in six EE's no problem but say you want to bring eight EE's, then you need enough schollie players off the present team to have got their degree before those EE's can enter school. If you get my drift. In this case it would be two players.. The 25 LOI rule was a PR move and it will work to some degree but it will not hurt bama or LSU, it will Ole Miss,Miss state,tenn,arkie,and USCe and those schools will adapt and then it will be something else...
1984gator wrote: 25 + 3 early enrollees that count back to the previous year.  I wonder sometime if Sumlin knows the conference rule on this.  Perhaps there are some recruits unlikely to qualify?
RoseBowlBucks wrote: And it has to do with your favorite topic... oversigning.

As I look at the Scout recruiting rankings I see both A&M and Georgia have 30+ verbals.  I know they are just verbals but how many will they actually be able to sign?  Not sure when the SEC oversigning rules go into effect and what loopholes are available.

BTW, I didn't start this thread to get into an oversigning debate (because we will never agree), I am just trying to get an answer to my specific question.

Thanks.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 9:16 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


If you don't over sign, by rule, or offer gray shirts etc., you are going to UNDER SIGN in some years when things don't break your way.  It is inherent.

You make say 25 offers which are verbally accepted, fine, then a week before signing day, you have 3 players switch, and you are left out in the cold, signing 22.

If however, you have 3 players lined up as gray shirts or whatever, or can clear roster space if you have to, then you can over sign and make your numbers.

Spurrier had to go to 3 players and retract their scholarships a couple years ago.

The other parameter often missed is how many signees actually make it to school.  Some of them each year are borderline for making the "grade" and some may go juco as a result.

Signing a player is NOT the same thing as having him count as part of your 85.

Hodor.

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Posted: 12/9/2012 11:05 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


^^^^^ It's really amazing regarding how many folks fail to comprehend such a simple concept.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 11:25 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
I just checked Florida's classes for the past decade (as far back as Scout or Rivals go) and not once did Florida have "30 something." Perhaps you can point out when that happened.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 11:50 AM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



rivergator wrote:
rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
I just checked Florida's classes for the past decade (as far back as Scout or Rivals go) and not once did Florida have "30 something." Perhaps you can point out when that happened.
I always thought Florida and Georgia didn't oversign their classes.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:07 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


Georgia, Florida, and Vandy have a university policy not to "over sign", and have had for a while.  They tend to "under sign" as a result, for reasons noted above.

Hodor.

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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:29 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



scooniebuck wrote:
rivergator wrote:
rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
I just checked Florida's classes for the past decade (as far back as Scout or Rivals go) and not once did Florida have "30 something." Perhaps you can point out when that happened.
I always thought Florida and Georgia didn't oversign their classes.
Florida had a couple of classes with 28, but because some were early enrollees, all were in school. That's why I questioned the guy who claimed that the Gators had signed 30 something.

Last edited 12/9/2012 12:40 PM by rivergator

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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:44 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



rivergator wrote:
scooniebuck wrote:
rivergator wrote:
rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
I just checked Florida's classes for the past decade (as far back as Scout or Rivals go) and not once did Florida have "30 something." Perhaps you can point out when that happened.
I always thought Florida and Georgia didn't oversign their classes.
Florida had a couple of classes with 28, but because some were early enrollees, all were in school.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this policy.  If some top schools are oversigning, and others are not, one group has a clear competitive advantage over the other.  Does Saban run the SEC?  Some national publications have written on the subject over the past few years, outlining the competitive advantages at the expense of the athletes.  Those that look to do things the right way ought to be leading a charge to level the playing field.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:59 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


Over signing is NOT the problem.

The problem is "cutting players" for whatever to make room for more signees.

Once again, a player can SIGN an LOI and never show up on campus and be counted against the 85, of the 25.

Hodor.

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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:59 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


Why do SEC fans even respond to this topic on this board?
I rarely see any threads about the Big 10 when I'm on SEC boards.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 2:03 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


Yes urban got completely embarassed of the SEC culture and he knew Saban and Miles and whoever steppped un next would be there kicking FL butt for the near future. Great that Urban is at tOSU now but come on he left the fight in the SEC. He has no competition at all in B1G.
34011 wrote:
rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
Urban embarrassed by the SEC culture, you have to be shetting me, man. It is to early in the morning to read this complete BS... Urbie the texter and Urbie the bump rule, dude.. Come on and Urbie the Friday Night Light's guy, Urbie I feel your pain with recruits guy, that guy was sick of the SEC culture the one where he became the most aggressive recruiter in the SEC.. He stole more commits from other then any guy in the SEC.. He was the first guy I know in the SEC who used early enrollee's and such a high rate. Please, urbie left the SEC because he was getting caught up with and he knew it. Plus, Saban had his number and he took what he thought was his best team into the SEC title game against bama and got smoked and caused him to have a mental breakdown... Everybody in SEC country knows Urbie lost it and most he is still not the same coach.. Don't rewrite history, Urbie was not a nice guy on the recruiting trail, he was as cutthroat as they come and still is....
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Posted: 12/9/2012 2:33 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



cincydawg4 wrote: Over signing is NOT the problem.

The problem is "cutting players" for whatever to make room for more signees.

Once again, a player can SIGN an LOI and never show up on campus and be counted against the 85, of the 25.
See, I agree with alot of what you write but I disagree on this cutting players stuff. No coach in the SEC or any other conf has to cut players.. Players cut themselves. Just look at Crowell, no doubt the kid was given every chance to get his stuff together and he would not do it. If you are a college coach after two years or even a year and the player is making the same problems for the team you have to cut him loose. Was Crowell cut no way, he was a head case.. If coach's were really cutting players it would be all over the media, believe me if the media could find a bunch of players that Saban cut they would have them on TV, newspapers, and on the Radio, you name it....Saban offered the taylor kid from atlanta a greyshirt offer a month before signing day, the AJC and atlanta radio stations went insane over it, so if Saban actually cut a kid he would become a media superstar..  In the ATL, Alabama,Fl,and La..
I don't know about that last statement if a kid signs a LOI and never enters school, no way he counts against the 85 limit, it will count against the LOI limit for that signing class...
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Posted: 12/9/2012 2:46 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


So tired of this subject. 
I don't care how many ships are handed out/outstanding (as long as it adds up to less than 86 outstanding to only 85 players over the entire year... as long as a ship doesn't somehow get shared for 6 months).


Is signing an LOI what the 25 rule is refering to or isn't it?


The interpretation of almost ALL schools is that that IS what the rule is refering to.  Yet some schools just ignore the "rule" as they see fit and the NCAA lets them get away with it for some reason.


FIGHT ON!!!

(How DO you get a picture in the sig line anyway?)
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Posted: 12/9/2012 2:58 PM

RE: Question for SEC fans... 


Yet Bama's coach won't answer questions when asked about it.

Richt has openly criticized it. He isn't criticizing something that doesn't exist.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:07 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



34011 wrote:
cincydawg4 wrote: Over signing is NOT the problem.

The problem is "cutting players" for whatever to make room for more signees.

Once again, a player can SIGN an LOI and never show up on campus and be counted against the 85, of the 25.
See, I agree with alot of what you write but I disagree on this cutting players stuff. No coach in the SEC or any other conf has to cut players.. Players cut themselves. Just look at Crowell, no doubt the kid was given every chance to get his stuff together and he would not do it. If you are a college coach after two years or even a year and the player is making the same problems for the team you have to cut him loose. Was Crowell cut no way, he was a head case.. If coach's were really cutting players it would be all over the media, believe me if the media could find a bunch of players that Saban cut they would have them on TV, newspapers, and on the Radio, you name it....Saban offered the taylor kid from atlanta a greyshirt offer a month before signing day, the AJC and atlanta radio stations went insane over it, so if Saban actually cut a kid he would become a media superstar..  In the ATL, Alabama,Fl,and La..
I don't know about that last statement if a kid signs a LOI and never enters school, no way he counts against the 85 limit, it will count against the LOI limit for that signing class...
I didn't say who cuts players.  I just find that the practice of "cutting players" opens up a LOT of wiggle room for teams at the expense of players.  To the extent there is ANY problem here at all, this is where I think it COULD be in SOME cases.

A kid who signs an LOI and never enters school is not counted against the 85.

It is a Letter if INTENT.

Hodor.

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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:20 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



What happened to Saban at Mich State? Was he completely embarrassed too,

---------------------------------------------
--- Depriest wrote:

Yes urban got completely embarassed of the SEC culture and he knew Saban and Miles and whoever steppped un next would be there kicking FL butt for the near future. Great that Urban is at tOSU now but come on he left the fight in the SEC. He has no competition at all in B1G.
34011 wrote:
rbltc27 wrote: Always wondered why Florida's classes, when they and SC battled it for the top class a few years back, had 30 someting to SC's 22 or so.  SC had a way higher star average, yet Florida's classes were ranked higher.

Urban became embarrassed of the SEC culture.  It's not him, thus, he got the heck out
Urban embarrassed by the SEC culture, you have to be shetting me, man. It is to early in the morning to read this complete BS... Urbie the texter and Urbie the bump rule, dude.. Come on and Urbie the Friday Night Light's guy, Urbie I feel your pain with recruits guy, that guy was sick of the SEC culture the one where he became the most aggressive recruiter in the SEC.. He stole more commits from other then any guy in the SEC.. He was the first guy I know in the SEC who used early enrollee's and such a high rate. Please, urbie left the SEC because he was getting caught up with and he knew it. Plus, Saban had his number and he took what he thought was his best team into the SEC title game against bama and got smoked and caused him to have a mental breakdown... Everybody in SEC country knows Urbie lost it and most he is still not the same coach.. Don't rewrite history, Urbie was not a nice guy on the recruiting trail, he was as cutthroat as they come and still is....


---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:47 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 



TroyKidd wrote: So tired of this subject. 
I don't care how many ships are handed out/outstanding (as long as it adds up to less than 86 outstanding to only 85 players over the entire year... as long as a ship doesn't somehow get shared for 6 months).


Is signing an LOI what the 25 rule is refering to or isn't it?


The interpretation of almost ALL schools is that that IS what the rule is refering to.  Yet some schools just ignore the "rule" as they see fit and the NCAA lets them get away with it for some reason.
No the ncaa rule is you cannot have more than 25 kids count toward one recruiting class. It does not metion LOI's.. LOI's are their to protect the school because after the LOI is signed the recruit can no longer be recruited by another school for that academic year..I am sure LOI protects the player in some cases but it really protects the school... Your last statement is completely false. you will schools in every conf sign over 25 players to LOI's go check other years, having recruits sign over 25 LOI's in not that big of a deal.. USC had 30 LOI's signed just a few years ago...
See, you are hung up on LOI's, the NCAA is hung on the actual number of kids who enter school that count toward the 85 limit... Fact is a school could go out and sign 25 recruits to LOI's and not one could get into school, not one player would count against the 85 Limit.. You want to interept the rule a certain way but the ncaa does not see it the way you do and that upset's you.. Why it is such a great debate...
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:55 PM

Re: Question for SEC fans... 


LOIs are potentially of no relevance at all.

Roster size in August on scholarships is.

Hodor.

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