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Illegal Immigration?

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:17 AM

Illegal Immigration? 


Can our nation's lawlessness at our southern border be discussed here, or would that subject be inherently political?  Just thought I'd ask the question before having any discussion.
"Last I checked, 19 was more than 16"
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:20 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


In before the (border fence) lock.

But I would be curious about the costs/logistics of building and securing a fence/wall at our southern border.

-How many miles are we talking?
-How long to complete?
-How many troops/guards would provide adequate security to a fenced border?

Last edited 7/11/2014 10:22 AM by RoswellBuzz

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:22 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.
I take it that this discussion has been attempted before?
"Last I checked, 19 was more than 16"

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:26 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


A better question... Why do people think a fence would work?

--WaCoJacket--
"If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything"


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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:26 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



ramblinwreckguru wrote:
RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.
I take it that this discussion has been attempted before?
Not that I know of, but the situation can only go political.  It's 2014, and there's a reason law makers are not committed to solving this problem.  

The solution to the problem is to stop the influx over our border, and then figure out what to do with those that are here later.  It's like a wound.  Stop the bleeding first, then clean up the mess.

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:28 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



WaCoJacket wrote: A better question... Why do people think a fence would work?
Or...Why do people think a fully executed fence wouldn't work?

A fence obviously isn't the whole answer, but it would be a start.

The status quo obviously isn't working.
--
Moderatus Emeritus

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:31 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.

But I would be curious about the costs/logistics of building and securing a fence/wall at our southern border.

-How many miles are we talking?
-How long to complete?
-How many troops/guards would provide adequate security to a fenced border?
1) According to Wikipedia, the border is 1,954 miles long.
2) With multiple contractors doing say 5 miles a piece of 12' tall reinforced concrete wall with razor wire and motion sensors on top, I would say it could be done in 18 months if financing was in place.
3) No idea.
"Last I checked, 19 was more than 16"
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:33 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



WaCoJacket wrote: A better question... Why do people think a fence would work?
Ask the Israelis if a fence works. The fence between Israel and the West Bank has cut terrorist attacks by 99%

The fence near San Diego cut illegal immigration in that regions by 90%.

A fence is not the whole answer, but a double or triple fence with motion detectors, drones and lots of border control agents would work much better than doing nothing

Last edited 7/11/2014 10:38 AM by LeatherneckJacket

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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:38 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



ramblinwreckguru wrote:
RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.

But I would be curious about the costs/logistics of building and securing a fence/wall at our southern border.

-How many miles are we talking?
-How long to complete?
-How many troops/guards would provide adequate security to a fenced border?
1) According to Wikipedia, the border is 1,954 miles long.
2) With multiple contractors doing say 5 miles a piece of 12' tall reinforced concrete wall with razor wire and motion sensors on top, I would say it could be done in 18 months if financing was in place.
3) No idea.
We should get the illegals to build the fence.  It would be a lot cheaper, and they'd probably do a better job.

Edit: Offer citizenship to any worker who puts in more than 2000 hours.  Problem solved.

Edit 2: Make it 3000 hours since they probably wouldn't mind 12 hour days.
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.  - Mark Twain

Last edited 7/11/2014 10:40 AM by 79rat95grad

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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:40 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



79rat95grad wrote:
ramblinwreckguru wrote:
RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.

But I would be curious about the costs/logistics of building and securing a fence/wall at our southern border.

-How many miles are we talking?
-How long to complete?
-How many troops/guards would provide adequate security to a fenced border?
1) According to Wikipedia, the border is 1,954 miles long.
2) With multiple contractors doing say 5 miles a piece of 12' tall reinforced concrete wall with razor wire and motion sensors on top, I would say it could be done in 18 months if financing was in place.
3) No idea.
We should get the illegals to build the fence.  It would be a lot cheaper, and they'd probably do a better job.

Edit: Offer citizenship to any worker who puts in more than 2000 hours.  Problem solved.
#endofthread

biggrin
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:47 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



79rat95grad wrote:
ramblinwreckguru wrote:
RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.

But I would be curious about the costs/logistics of building and securing a fence/wall at our southern border.

-How many miles are we talking?
-How long to complete?
-How many troops/guards would provide adequate security to a fenced border?
1) According to Wikipedia, the border is 1,954 miles long.
2) With multiple contractors doing say 5 miles a piece of 12' tall reinforced concrete wall with razor wire and motion sensors on top, I would say it could be done in 18 months if financing was in place.
3) No idea.
We should get the illegals to build the fence.  It would be a lot cheaper, and they'd probably do a better job.

Edit: Offer citizenship to any worker who puts in more than 2000 hours.  Problem solved.

Edit 2: Make it 3000 hours since they probably wouldn't mind 12 hour days.
Genius.

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:53 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


It's about freedom, man!!
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:54 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


I think I can state this without being political.

I think immigration is great; I think immigrants are great BUT I also believe in laws.

If you have immigration laws then that means that people that come into the country illegally must be deported.  If not then, there is no rhyme or reason to those laws.  I will not go into all the reasons why we as a country have a problem with that (because some of them are political and/or insulting) BUT we do.  We think it is too hard or not fair or uncompassionate to deport people that have come into the country illegal.

That is why we build the fence; that is why some think a fence is the only way that we can stop illegal immigration. BTW, it is not the only reason but it is one reason that a fence gets support.
 
Basically, like many of our national political problems; we (the people and the politicians) don't have the will to do the correct thing so instead we do a lot of wasteful and pointless things and then complain that nothing works.

Lastly, why does immigrant have a N but immigration doesn't? noidea
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:55 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


Something there is that doesn't love a wall, 
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it, 
And spills the upper boulders in the sun, 
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast. 
The work of hunters is another thing: 
I have come after them and made repair 
Where they have left not one stone on a stone, 
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding, 
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean, 
No one has seen them made or heard them made, 
But at spring mending-time we find them there. 
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill; 
And on a day we meet to walk the line 
And set the wall between us once again. 
We keep the wall between us as we go. 
To each the boulders that have fallen to each. 
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls 
We have to use a spell to make them balance: 
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!' 
We wear our fingers rough with handling them. 
Oh, just another kind of out-door game, 
One on a side. It comes to little more: 
There where it is we do not need the wall: 
He is all pine and I am apple orchard. 
My apple trees will never get across 
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him. 
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'. 
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder 
If I could put a notion in his head: 
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it 
Where there are cows? 
But here there are no cows. 
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know 
What I was walling in or walling out, 
And to whom I was like to give offence. 
Something there is that doesn't love a wall, 
That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him, 
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather 
He said it for himself. I see him there 
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top 
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed. 
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~ 
Not of woods only and the shade of trees. 
He will not go behind his father's saying, 
And he likes having thought of it so well 
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:57 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


If I'm an ISIS operative of some other radical zealot who doesn't mind C-4 as a part of my wardrobe..I'm licking my chops at the this...
gif breakdown Tonight Alive Jenna McDougall

Posted: 7/11/2014 10:59 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


A fence for the entire border has been authorized since W's time but funding was cut off after 2006.

Edit: Had a few ideas to address the situation written but figured it would get the thread nuked so deleted (surprised it hasn't been locked yet).

Last edited 7/11/2014 11:09 AM by CheekGT95

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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:59 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


Oh, and F' Mexico!

Posted: 7/11/2014 11:02 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


The politics of this issue are, obviously, impossible at the moment. But the framework of a solution is simple...have a more open border with some type of guest worker program that allows people to be tracked, taxes paid, etc.

- IMO, the net economic impact of Mexican/Latin immigrants is positive. All this talk of them taking American jobs is complete BS. My father works in the natural gas pipeline industry. The labor in that industry is now almost all Mexican...and they do a fantastic job. You can't get "real" Americans of any demographic to do it...and that includes skilled jobs like welding. The work is too hard, too hot and usually in inconvenient places.

- I think the vast majority of illegals come here for opportunity...but would prefer to stay in their home country/city. A rational and sane guest worker program would allow them to come to the US to fill mutual economic needs and then return to their home.

- I live in Phoenix...the idea that armies of illegals are raiding the US is a myth, IMO. In fact, since 2008, illegal migration has fallen due to the US's economic problems and border security efforts.

- I worked for a huge multinational and managed a team of Mexican supply chain professionals at our plant in Mexicali. They were all in their mid-20s...many with MBAs...very professional and hungry. They want to make their country better.

So...I'm a big fan of the Mexican people in general...hard-working, resourceful and family-oriented. A sane immigration policy is what we need. We need them economically much more than we think.
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Posted: 7/11/2014 11:06 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 



ramblinwreckguru wrote:
RoswellBuzz wrote: In before the (border fence) lock.

But I would be curious about the costs/logistics of building and securing a fence/wall at our southern border.

-How many miles are we talking?
-How long to complete?
-How many troops/guards would provide adequate security to a fenced border?
1) According to Wikipedia, the border is 1,954 miles long.
2) With multiple contractors doing say 5 miles a piece of 12' tall reinforced concrete wall with razor wire and motion sensors on top, I would say it could be done in 18 months if financing was in place.
3) No idea.
So a fence (or series of fences, or walls) would cost some money to build, but it would provide some jobs for construction.

And with 1,954 miles to guard, would provide more job opportunities.  Thousands of jobs.  How many veterans from recent conflicts do we have out of work?  

To me, it's a no brain-er.  Securing our border is the right thing to do.  But to politicians, it's all about pandering to get enough votes to secure 2 (or 6) more years of "service" in Congress.  And I cannot understand how a Hispanic-American would not be offended by this.  Someone is trying to secure your vote (you who likely came into this country the right way) by protecting thousands and thousands of people trying to sneak across the border.

Last edited 7/11/2014 11:06 AM by RoswellBuzz

Posted: 7/11/2014 11:07 AM

Re: Illegal Immigration? 


What are you including under the umbrella of lawlessness?


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--- ramblinwreckguru wrote:

Can our nation's lawlessness at our southern border be discussed here, or would that subject be inherently political?  Just thought I'd ask the question before having any discussion.

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