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Interesting counter arguments to faith

Posted: 6/5/2014 8:04 PM

Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Many of the common "proof of god" arguments I've encountered in my lifetime are addressed.  In particular the 2nd law of thermodynamics is examined since its a favorite proof these days.   I dont think the article is deep enough to convert any faithful into agnostics or atheists, but it still points out fundamental flaws in logic for commonly referenced talking points in this eternal debate.  In particular, Pascal's Wager is one thought process that has always bugged me.

http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=refute

Posted: 6/5/2014 8:15 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



Congratulations for making my Ignore list...primarily for repetition of this stuff. :)
--
Moderatus Emeritus
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Posted: 6/5/2014 8:36 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Confusing 'faith' and 'proof.' Again.

Yeah, I can't recall a TBJ post I was interested in reading.

Michael Adams, UGA President:
There was urination, there was defecation, there were 70 tons of trash.  Buildings like the Law School or the library, we’ve had to close because when we left them open the destruction was too significant.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 8:37 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


The guy lost me with the first paragraph where he says atheist simply see God as unproven.  Most that I've spoken to frame an awful lot of sentences with, "There is no God because..."  That sounds more like an attempt to disprove to me.

Either way, from the beginning until the end of time, no one will ever prove or disprove the existence of God.  I used to find this a compelling debate until I came to that realization.

I do think believers have the ultimate trump card, however.  If a believer is wrong, he'll be in the ether with the atheist.  If the atheist is wrong, he's going to Hell.
"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."
-Mark Twain

Posted: 6/5/2014 8:44 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Why is politics off limits but a subject far more personal for the majority of the board allowed? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd vote to allow both.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 8:46 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Because no one ever got killed over a religious debate.

Wait...
"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."
-Mark Twain

Posted: 6/5/2014 8:49 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


That's of course if the place called Hell actually exists

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--- originalwombat wrote:

The guy lost me with the first paragraph where he says atheist simply see God as unproven.  Most that I've spoken to frame an awful lot of sentences with, "There is no God because..."  That sounds more like an attempt to disprove to me.

Either way, from the beginning until the end of time, no one will ever prove or disprove the existence of God.  I used to find this a compelling debate until I came to that realization.

I do think believers have the ultimate trump card, however.  If a believer is wrong, he'll be in the ether with the atheist.  If the atheist is wrong, he's going to Hell.

---------------------------------------------

Posted: 6/5/2014 8:58 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



TBuzz wrote: That's of course if the place called Hell actually exists

---------------------------------------------
--- originalwombat wrote:

The guy lost me with the first paragraph where he says atheist simply see God as unproven.  Most that I've spoken to frame an awful lot of sentences with, "There is no God because..."  That sounds more like an attempt to disprove to me.

Either way, from the beginning until the end of time, no one will ever prove or disprove the existence of God.  I used to find this a compelling debate until I came to that realization.

I do think believers have the ultimate trump card, however.  If a believer is wrong, he'll be in the ether with the atheist.  If the atheist is wrong, he's going to Hell.

---------------------------------------------
Pretty sure he covered that possibility.

Posted: 6/5/2014 9:08 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


That article is also factually wrong in some of its own arguments. I'm not going to get into it, but readers be wary of what you read on the internet, it may not be true.

Posted: 6/5/2014 9:29 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



helmofsalvation wrote: That article is also factually wrong in some of its own arguments. I'm not going to get into it, but readers be wary of what you read on the internet, it may not be true.
Just for my own education, what is factually wrong?  I honestly didnt feel like reading all of it, just the highlights.

Posted: 6/5/2014 10:28 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Water Buzz is an extremely cool dude in person.

As for TBJ - when I saw the thread title, I thought - What the Hell is Wrong with this Guy?

You really need to take this crap someplace else.

Posted: 6/5/2014 11:26 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Linked it but didn't read it?

Posted: 6/5/2014 11:32 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



wreck1 wrote: Linked it but didn't read it?
Linked it AND endorsed it but didn't read it. I'm hitting ignore right after I get this hook out.

Posted: 6/5/2014 11:38 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



CheekGT95 wrote: Why is politics off limits but a subject far more personal for the majority of the board allowed? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd vote to allow both.
If people drag their personal issues (vs each other) about this over to the football board then this subject will be nuked as well.

Posted: 6/5/2014 11:41 PM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



originalwombat wrote: The guy lost me with the first paragraph where he says atheist simply see God as unproven.  Most that I've spoken to frame an awful lot of sentences with, "There is no God because..."  That sounds more like an attempt to disprove to me.

Either way, from the beginning until the end of time, no one will ever prove or disprove the existence of God.  I used to find this a compelling debate until I came to that realization.

I do think believers have the ultimate trump card, however.  If a believer is wrong, he'll be in the ether with the atheist.  If the atheist is wrong, he's going to Hell.
It's Pascal's Wager and your average freshman philosophy student can debunk it.  Just Google it.  

I can't disprove there are little dancing gnomes in my yard that my cameras cannot pick up, either.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, you have got to make sure you picked the right god as well.

Last edited 6/5/2014 11:58 PM by mgdGT

Posted: 6/6/2014 8:11 AM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 


Has it ever occurred to you what visitors to this forum must think when they encounter threads like this one?
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:38 AM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



ctmoore8 wrote: Has it ever occurred to you what visitors to this forum must think when they encounter threads like this one?
That we're one big dysfunctional family?
~
To hell with Georgia, and I don't give a damn about the whole state of Michigan!
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Posted: 6/6/2014 9:00 AM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



CheekGT95 wrote: Why is politics off limits but a subject far more personal for the majority of the board allowed? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd vote to allow both.
It's so typical of someone on your side to think that religion is "far more personal" than politics. tongue
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.  - Mark Twain

Posted: 6/6/2014 9:09 AM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



79rat95grad wrote:
CheekGT95 wrote: Why is politics off limits but a subject far more personal for the majority of the board allowed? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd vote to allow both.
It's so typical of someone on your side to think that religion is "far more personal" than politics. tongue

Which is why I said the majority instead of all.

Posted: 6/6/2014 9:12 AM

Re: Interesting counter arguments to faith 



Jacketbuckeye wrote:
ctmoore8 wrote: Has it ever occurred to you what visitors to this forum must think when they encounter threads like this one?
That we're one big dysfunctional family?
That might be the best thing they could think.biggrin  I do hope they realize that most of us don't support all this stuff.
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