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Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To Recruit?...

Posted: 7/25/2014 8:13 PM

Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To Recruit?... 


I've been a die hard GT fan for over 50 years and have never seen a period where UGA won 12 out of 13. Also, the last few years it seems like the talent discrepancy between GT and UGA is getting wider and wider. I know many of you are saying "What do you expect with out recruiting limitations?", but did our recruiting limitations just start with CPJ? Even during the Gailey years I thought we had a couple of teams where our 1st team was right there with UGA, and Ross and O'Leary held there own. So is it just with CPJ that GT has limitations?
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:33 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


1st team was right with uGA in 08, 09, 10, 13.  Three losses where 1-2 more plays and you win those games. 

This is by far uGA's best 13 year streak as a program, and some still want to fire Richt.

APR has not helped.  O'Leary's grad rates would be probationary today.  

I will say the two back to back wins in the 80s (84-85) just 4 years after uGA's national title and a really bad GT program seem remarkable today.  I was too young to see those games so somebody else will have to fill in how GT did it.

GT and PJ can recruit better. Not surprised recruiting rankings are not that good.  I am more surprised by the lack of player development.  Thought PJ got blood out of a turnip at Navy.

Last edited 7/25/2014 8:34 PM by griswold6571

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Posted: 7/25/2014 9:19 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


I am not sure what Georgia Tech you have been watching if you are positing that Gailey somehow had better success against UGA than CPJ has had.

Gailey's first attempt, with GOL's high caliber players, was a record 51-7 loss.

He followed that with losses of 17, 6, 14, 3, and 14 point losses.

Of course CPJ won his first year, we lost in 2010 with our backup QB because our kicker missed an extra point, and we went lost in OT last year after leading much of the game.

I am not sure we ever even actually held a lead against UGA under the Gailey years.

In regards to recruiting, Gailey's first RC was David Wilson, who set the program back 10 years. Worst RC ever to show his sorry mug at GT bar none.

CPJ has been recruiting better than the David Wilson/Patrick Nix as RC years under Gailey, but not to the level of the Giff Smith as RC years.

At the end of the day recruiting has to get better. There is no concrete indication yet that it has.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 9:33 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


We were the better team in 2009 and last year with their injuries and youth on D we should have won as well.  Both were big failures for PJ and staff.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 9:59 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



TechAKnee wrote: We were the better team in 2009 and last year with their injuries and youth on D we should have won as well.  Both were big failures for PJ and staff.
I agree, but what you and some others are really saying is that some of our losses under CPJ were due to game day coaching.  I don't think I will ever forget Demaryious dropping that pass to kill the drive on our final possession in 2009.  Then he told us after the game he was coming back for his senior year.  All in all, he was a good three year player for us, but he sure didn't go out well.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:01 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


GT has never and will never compete with UGA for recruits. However, from time to time we have been seen as an innovative and interesting team that had some buzz. We had buzz in the early 90s with Shawn Jones, a lot of buzz with Joe Hamilton and Fridge in the late 90s, muted buzz with Calvin in the early 90s and some buzz with Nesbitt and Dwyer 5 years ago. Maybe Thomas will prove me wrong, but it just does not seem like our system will bring in the type f athlete to recreate this buzz. We seem to bring in more role players.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:09 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


We could always post the track records and average recruiting class rankings for the previous coaches, but it wouldn't matter. People find ways to spin things to suit their agenda.

It just so happens that UGA is our in-state rival. I could probably name you several other schools where, if we played them, we would only win 1 or 2 out of 10 games. It's not a UGA thing. It's just the landscape of CFB. There are the "haves" and the "have nots," and it's not because the have nots aren't trying.


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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:28 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



ctmoore8 wrote:
TechAKnee wrote: We were the better team in 2009 and last year with their injuries and youth on D we should have won as well.  Both were big failures for PJ and staff.
I agree, but what you and some others are really saying is that some of our losses under CPJ were due to game day coaching.  I don't think I will ever forget Demaryious dropping that pass to kill the drive on our final possession in 2009.  Then he told us after the game he was coming back for his senior year.  All in all, he was a good three year player for us, but he sure didn't go out well.
That drop was big no doubt.  However, I'll never forget the decision to throw bombs on 1st, 2nd, & 3rd down with nearly 2 minutes in the game inside the 50 yard line.  That was simply bad coaching.  

When you have the better team or when you have a 20 pt lead coupled with playing at home and you can't find a way to win, then yeah I contribute a fair amount of blame to coaching.

Last edited 7/25/2014 10:30 PM by TechAKnee

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Posted: 7/26/2014 2:44 AM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


I guess the OP has watch college football in the last half decade and noticed how the SEC has pulled away from everybody, not just UGA vs GT?  It's a perpetual hype machine that builds the SEC up and now has UK, Ole Piss, and the rest of the traditional door mats pulling in top 25 classes.  Competitive balance is out of whack and the SEC holds all the cards now.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:43 AM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



fathead wrote: I am not sure what Georgia Tech you have been watching if you are positing that Gailey somehow had better success against UGA than CPJ has had.

Gailey's first attempt, with GOL's high caliber players, was a record 51-7 loss.

He followed that with losses of 17, 6, 14, 3, and 14 point losses.

Of course CPJ won his first year, we lost in 2010 with our backup QB because our kicker missed an extra point, and we went lost in OT last year after leading much of the game.

I am not sure we ever even actually held a lead against UGA under the Gailey years.

In regards to recruiting, Gailey's first RC was David Wilson, who set the program back 10 years. Worst RC ever to show his sorry mug at GT bar none.

CPJ has been recruiting better than the David Wilson/Patrick Nix as RC years under Gailey, but not to the level of the Giff Smith as RC years.

At the end of the day recruiting has to get better. There is no concrete indication yet that it has.
Well said.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:21 AM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


Fathead. Gailey clearly developed players better than paul. If you look at the 2006 roster despite being coordinated by the joke david wilson that may he the most talented roster at tech in 20 years.

Paul hasnt come close

Gailey got blown out vs uga his first year. Paul achieved the same his 5th.

Imo both these coaches are about identical. The record shows that. Chan underachieved with the talent he developed. Paul is achieving about what he should with his talent. Paul is owned by vt, miami and uga. Gailey was owned by uga and vt, although chan beat vt in blacksburg and owned miami at the end.

Bottom line is these guys are so darn identical its a program mediocrity not a coach discussion.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 10:58 AM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To Recruit? 


Georgia's record and rankings by coach and year when we faced them:

Gailey
02: #5 (10-1)
03: #5 (9-2)
04: #8 (8-2)
05: #13 (8-2)
06: NR (7-4)
07: #6 (9-2)

CPJ
08: #13 (9-2)
09: NR (6-5)
10: NR (5-6)
11: #13 (9-2)
12: #3 (10-1)
13: NR (7-4)

Lets quit pretending Georgia is anything close to what they were in the Gailey era in the CPJ era.

CPJ lost to the three worst Georgia teams since Donnan's first year. He blew a chance to kill their bowl streak.

We overinflate what Georgia has been since CPJ had been here.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 12:41 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 





---------------------------------------------
--- TampaBayJacket wrote:

I guess the OP has watch college football in the last half decade and noticed how the SEC has pulled away from everybody, not just UGA vs GT?  It's a perpetual hype machine that builds the SEC up and now has UK, Ole Piss, and the rest of the traditional door mats pulling in top 25 classes.  Competitive balance is out of whack and the SEC holds all the cards now.

---------------------------------------------

Agree, it's not just Tech - Georgia. Look at Clemson, in the midst of their "best" run in the last 30 years, but they can't beat their arch SEC rival, 5 straight....and does anybody think Clemson can beat them this year? Not really.

I know, this is a GT board, so who cares about anybody else? But when being realistic is required, I think other programs have some relevance in the discussion.
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  • BOATY1
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Posted: 7/26/2014 1:25 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



ringGOLDinTampa wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- TampaBayJacket wrote:

I guess the OP has watch college football in the last half decade and noticed how the SEC has pulled away from everybody, not just UGA vs GT?  It's a perpetual hype machine that builds the SEC up and now has UK, Ole Piss, and the rest of the traditional door mats pulling in top 25 classes.  Competitive balance is out of whack and the SEC holds all the cards now.

---------------------------------------------

Agree, it's not just Tech - Georgia. Look at Clemson, in the midst of their "best" run in the last 30 years, but they can't beat their arch SEC rival, 5 straight....and does anybody think Clemson can beat them this year? Not really.

I know, this is a GT board, so who cares about anybody else? But when being realistic is required, I think other programs have some relevance in the discussion.
Why would you think Clemson can't beat South Carolina this year.  Clemson's program is on the rise and they consistently out recruit South C.  Clemson will be back on top in that rivalry in no time.  The reason the SEC has better teams is because they recruit better players.  In the Palmetto state rivalry Clemson recruits better so eventually they will get it turned around.  Clemson was better than South Carolina last year.  They just didn't win the game.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 1:37 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



I think Spurrier will continue to beat Dabo/Clemson, just like his Florida teams did to Georgia, just as long as he wants to. How was Clemson better than SC last year? Basing that on what? Clemson went to a BCS game, sure. Had they been in the SEC they wouldn't have had a shot. They can thank FSU for getting to the NC game and opening up a spot for a 2nd ACC team. SC has dominated Clemson, and I guess it's just an opinion, but I don't see it changing. But no, Clemson wasn't "better" than SC last year.

---------------------------------------------
--- BOATY1 wrote:


ringGOLDinTampa wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- TampaBayJacket wrote:

I guess the OP has watch college football in the last half decade and noticed how the SEC has pulled away from everybody, not just UGA vs GT?  It's a perpetual hype machine that builds the SEC up and now has UK, Ole Piss, and the rest of the traditional door mats pulling in top 25 classes.  Competitive balance is out of whack and the SEC holds all the cards now.

---------------------------------------------

Agree, it's not just Tech - Georgia. Look at Clemson, in the midst of their "best" run in the last 30 years, but they can't beat their arch SEC rival, 5 straight....and does anybody think Clemson can beat them this year? Not really.

I know, this is a GT board, so who cares about anybody else? But when being realistic is required, I think other programs have some relevance in the discussion.
Why would you think Clemson can't beat South Carolina this year.  Clemson's program is on the rise and they consistently out recruit South C.  Clemson will be back on top in that rivalry in no time.  The reason the SEC has better teams is because they recruit better players.  In the Palmetto state rivalry Clemson recruits better so eventually they will get it turned around.  Clemson was better than South Carolina last year.  They just didn't win the game.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 7/26/2014 9:51 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



fathead wrote: 
Gailey's first attempt, with GOL's high caliber players, was a record 51-7 loss.

Jeez...talk about revisionist history..."GOL's high caliber players"?  Are you kidding me?

Gailey had pulled Tony Hollings off the O'Leary scrap heap, but he got hurt against BYU early in the season.  

We limped into that game on life support while UGA was headed for an ultimate SEC title.  We started Gordon Clinkscale in that game against UGA.

AJ Suggs started that game and threw two INTs.  Bilbo and JONATHAN SMITH got snaps at QB.
--
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Posted: 7/26/2014 9:58 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To Recruit? 



gtatutk wrote: Georgia's record and rankings by coach and year when we faced them:

Gailey
02: #5 (10-1)
03: #5 (9-2)
04: #8 (8-2)
05: #13 (8-2)
06: NR (7-4)
07: #6 (9-2)

CPJ
08: #13 (9-2)
09: NR (6-5)
10: NR (5-6)
11: #13 (9-2)
12: #3 (10-1)
13: NR (7-4)

Lets quit pretending Georgia is anything close to what they were in the Gailey era in the CPJ era.

CPJ lost to the three worst Georgia teams since Donnan's first year. He blew a chance to kill their bowl streak.

We overinflate what Georgia has been since CPJ had been here.

This.  Gailey faced UGA during what has arguably been the zenith of their program.  

And he had to deal with the fall out of Flunk Gate which was an O'Leary leftover...
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Posted: 7/26/2014 10:11 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 



TechAKnee wrote: We were the better team in 2009 and last year with their injuries and youth on D we should have won as well.  Both were big failures for PJ and staff.
On that year our best WR and probably the 2nd or 3rd best WR in the NFL right now dropped a pass that would have given us a 1st down well into UGAG territory.  We had the momentum to win it until then.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 10:22 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To Recruit? 


If Nesbitt isn't hurt in the 2Q when we were driving, it wouldn't have had to come to that....
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Posted: 7/27/2014 12:28 PM

Re: Is It Just With CPJ That GT Is A Difficult Place To 


The data in this thread to me does not condemn Paul Johnson as much as show that Chan Gailey was also a very good coach. We were lucky to find two very good coaches who were able to keep us a consistently above average program with below average conditions for success. I fear that if we again make a change we will not be so fortunate the next time.


Hell of an Engineer, Son of a HOAE, Married to a HOAE, Father of 3 future HOAE's.

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