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Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War

Posted: 6/5/2014 12:07 PM

Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


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Posted: 6/5/2014 12:41 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.

Root for America

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Posted: 6/5/2014 1:17 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



damianjacket wrote: Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.
Exactly how does this help "schools like Wake" when the teams they have to compete against will get to throw even more money at football by paying a stipend to athletes - money that "schools like Wake"  likely do not have available unless they make significant budget cuts, possibly by going the Maryland route and dropping other sports?

Helena Engineer
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Posted: 6/5/2014 1:20 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



damianjacket wrote: Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.
And of course those withIN the Big 5 are going to be those who will fear coming out publicly and expressing any views that run counter to what they are doing.

Even taking that away, I'm glad he said it, I wish more people would.  I never realized how much athletics drive some of these schools until I moved to an SEC college town.  For example, I have a friend who is an engineer for a construction company who is working on a $2.5M indoor practice facility.......for women's volleyball.  Meanwhile, the dyno labs in the engineering building went at least 8 years (possibly more, haven't been by there) without being repaired because the SCHOOL lacked the money.  The dyno labs are in the basement of the football stadium which was undergoing a $130M rennovation (which started 5 years AFTER the labs burned down).

And the AA spends over $20M a year in debt payments.  http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/tennessee-fi nancial-woes-mostly-due-to-neyland-stadium-renovat ions/

If college football is about minor league football to you, then I suppose you'd disagree with O'Leary.  If you are like me, and college football is about an exciting way to support the academic institution, and you cheer for the players because they are students, too, then you probably agree with him.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 1:23 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


Wow! Video of SEC speed on sEcSPN! haven't seen that in about 5 months.

rolleyes
Georgian By Birth - Jacket By the Grace of God
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Posted: 6/5/2014 2:23 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


Would UCF be considered a commuter school like Ga State?noidea
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Posted: 6/5/2014 2:59 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


I think it's a mistake for Big Bee to use words like that in the deep south.  But otherwise, I agree with him.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 3:07 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


Always knew he was nothing but a damnyankee (yes that is one word sir) tongue devil

That is just a joke.

It is a pretty stupid comment given the context: it is not a good or worthy comparison.  He could have said what he wanted to say in a better way.  

Also, he doesn't give a rat's arse about "college football"; he cares that this is screwing him and UCF.  

BTW, I have no problem with Big Bee; he is a very good football coach and I wish HE had never LEFT GT.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 3:54 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


He's not in the deep south, he's in Orlando.  Not much "southern" about that area.
midatlantech wrote: I think it's a mistake for Big Bee to use words like that in the deep south.  But otherwise, I agree with him.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:00 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


George is once again stepping on his schlong.  He is being politically incorrect by lumping the South and specifically the SEC into a category that he chooses to demean.  Has this man learned nothing about peoples sensitivities?  His aire of superiority based on his Northern heritage mark him as no better than a racist or gay basher when it comes to caring about the good and welfare of the South and the SEC in particular.  I expect to see him fired before sundown.

Go Jackets!
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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:06 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


67King wrote:  

I never realized how much athletics drive some of these schools until I moved to an SEC college town.  For example, I have a friend who is an engineer for a construction company who is working on a $2.5M indoor practice facility.......for women's volleyball.  Meanwhile, the dyno labs in the engineering building went at least 8 years (possibly more, haven't been by there) without being repaired because the SCHOOL lacked the money.  The dyno labs are in the basement of the football stadium which was undergoing a $130M rennovation (which started 5 years AFTER the labs burned down).

And the AA spends over $20M a year in debt payments.  http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/tennessee-fi nancial-woes-mostly-due-to-neyland-stadium-renovat ions/

If college football is about minor league football to you, then I suppose you'd disagree with O'Leary.  If you are like me, and college football is about an exciting way to support the academic institution, and you cheer for the players because they are students, too, then you probably agree with him.
This fallacy, repeated in so much of the college sports media, drives me crazy.  There are a stunning number of smart people who don't understand how much college athletics benefits college academics, particularly at the schools where college football is the biggest.  

The Tenn AA raises its own revenue via the football and basketball teams, which it then redistributes to the non-revenue teams and to the university itself.  The Tenn AA does NOT take money from the university; it actually contributes $6 million per year to the university as a general contribution.  

I'm sorry that UT's engineering facilities are not up to the standards your friend wants, but that has nothing to do with UT's passion for football.  And if they reduced the emphasis on football in Knoxville, it would have no impact on the engineering facilities (if anything, it would have a marginally negative effect on them).  

We live in a society where most people have some disposable income.  Many of them spend it on cable TV, football tickets, products carrying football team logos, and the products of college football advertisers.  They don't spend it by making charitable donations to massive engineering charities with enormous bureaucracies and numerous other inefficiencies.  Do you really think all those Tenn season ticket holders would be happy to shift their dollars to engineering donations if ticket prices went back down?  

Why is this surprising or worrying or frankly in any way notable?   People spend their money on stuff they like.

Last edited 6/5/2014 4:10 PM by 18in32

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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:23 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


Has anyone said if Tech has the money to pay stipends w/o cutting anything?  Seems our AA is in the red all the time, or barely making it.  Can we afford this?

I don't really care if Wake can compete or not.  If not, they can join O'Leary's conference.  I am worried about GT being able to compete.

HLNEngineer wrote:
damianjacket wrote: Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.
Exactly how does this help "schools like Wake" when the teams they have to compete against will get to throw even more money at football by paying a stipend to athletes - money that "schools like Wake"  likely do not have available unless they make significant budget cuts, possibly by going the Maryland route and dropping other sports?

Helena Engineer
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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:28 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



18in32 wrote:
67King wrote:  

I never realized how much athletics drive some of these schools until I moved to an SEC college town.  For example, I have a friend who is an engineer for a construction company who is working on a $2.5M indoor practice facility.......for women's volleyball.  Meanwhile, the dyno labs in the engineering building went at least 8 years (possibly more, haven't been by there) without being repaired because the SCHOOL lacked the money.  The dyno labs are in the basement of the football stadium which was undergoing a $130M rennovation (which started 5 years AFTER the labs burned down).

And the AA spends over $20M a year in debt payments.  http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/tennessee-fi nancial-woes-mostly-due-to-neyland-stadium-renovat ions/

If college football is about minor league football to you, then I suppose you'd disagree with O'Leary.  If you are like me, and college football is about an exciting way to support the academic institution, and you cheer for the players because they are students, too, then you probably agree with him.
This fallacy, repeated in so much of the college sports media, drives me crazy.  There are a stunning number of smart people who don't understand how much college athletics benefits college academics, particularly at the schools where college football is the biggest.  

The Tenn AA raises its own revenue via the football and basketball teams, which it then redistributes to the non-revenue teams and to the university itself.  The Tenn AA does NOT take money from the university; it actually contributes $6 million per year to the university as a general contribution.  

I'm sorry that UT's engineering facilities are not up to the standards your friend wants, but that has nothing to do with UT's passion for football.  And if they reduced the emphasis on football in Knoxville, it would have no impact on the engineering facilities (if anything, it would have a marginally negative effect on them).  

We live in a society where most people have some disposable income.  Many of them spend it on cable TV, football tickets, products carrying football team logos, and the products of college football advertisers.  They don't spend it by making charitable donations to massive engineering charities with enormous bureaucracies and numerous other inefficiencies.  Do you really think all those Tenn season ticket holders would be happy to shift their dollars to engineering donations if ticket prices went back down?  

Why is this surprising or worrying or frankly in any way notable?   People spend their money on stuff they like.
In general, I think you are correct about the schools and big time football.  One negative, minor and indirect, is that some of the students attending the school seem to do it because of the social/sports scene instead of the academics.  That might be wasteful for them and taxpayers that support the school. 

I do believe that some schools actually subsidize the sports programs (happens more at lower level programs); that is a different animal and is wasteful for everyone involved.  Some of these subsidies are students fees that are basically forced on the students.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:30 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



ylwjacket wrote: Has anyone said if Tech has the money to pay stipends w/o cutting anything?  Seems our AA is in the red all the time, or barely making it.  Can we afford this?

I don't really care if Wake can compete or not.  If not, they can join O'Leary's conference.  I am worried about GT being able to compete.

HLNEngineer wrote:
damianjacket wrote: Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.
Exactly how does this help "schools like Wake" when the teams they have to compete against will get to throw even more money at football by paying a stipend to athletes - money that "schools like Wake"  likely do not have available unless they make significant budget cuts, possibly by going the Maryland route and dropping other sports?

Helena Engineer
Wake Forest has more money than God. It's just a matter of whether they choose to spend it on Athletics.

"Think about how dumb the average guy is.... Then think about the fact that half of the people are dumber than that......

Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" 

- George Carlin

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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:37 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



waltonbuzz wrote:
I do believe that some schools actually subsidize the sports programs (happens more at lower level programs); that is a different animal and is wasteful for everyone involved.  Some of these subsidies are students fees that are basically forced on the students.
Correct.

Here is a link for yesterday from the USA Today that lists most Division I school finances.

The teams new to FBS, like Ga State, James Madison, and Old Dominion are some of the most highly subsidized.

Please note that some of the subsidy listed can be accounting-based. Most of GT's subsidy is to account for the difference between out of state tuition. Money doesn't change hands. The rest of it is a portion of the AD's salary. Again, it is a function of accounting.

There is no apples to apples comparison to make as there is no GAAP for this stuff.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 4:49 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



waltonbuzz wrote:
18in32 wrote:
67King wrote:  

I never realized how much athletics drive some of these schools until I moved to an SEC college town.  For example, I have a friend who is an engineer for a construction company who is working on a $2.5M indoor practice facility.......for women's volleyball.  Meanwhile, the dyno labs in the engineering building went at least 8 years (possibly more, haven't been by there) without being repaired because the SCHOOL lacked the money.  The dyno labs are in the basement of the football stadium which was undergoing a $130M rennovation (which started 5 years AFTER the labs burned down).

And the AA spends over $20M a year in debt payments.  http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/tennessee-fi nancial-woes-mostly-due-to-neyland-stadium-renovat ions/

If college football is about minor league football to you, then I suppose you'd disagree with O'Leary.  If you are like me, and college football is about an exciting way to support the academic institution, and you cheer for the players because they are students, too, then you probably agree with him.
This fallacy, repeated in so much of the college sports media, drives me crazy.  There are a stunning number of smart people who don't understand how much college athletics benefits college academics, particularly at the schools where college football is the biggest.  

The Tenn AA raises its own revenue via the football and basketball teams, which it then redistributes to the non-revenue teams and to the university itself.  The Tenn AA does NOT take money from the university; it actually contributes $6 million per year to the university as a general contribution.  

I'm sorry that UT's engineering facilities are not up to the standards your friend wants, but that has nothing to do with UT's passion for football.  And if they reduced the emphasis on football in Knoxville, it would have no impact on the engineering facilities (if anything, it would have a marginally negative effect on them).  

We live in a society where most people have some disposable income.  Many of them spend it on cable TV, football tickets, products carrying football team logos, and the products of college football advertisers.  They don't spend it by making charitable donations to massive engineering charities with enormous bureaucracies and numerous other inefficiencies.  Do you really think all those Tenn season ticket holders would be happy to shift their dollars to engineering donations if ticket prices went back down?  

Why is this surprising or worrying or frankly in any way notable?   People spend their money on stuff they like.
In general, I think you are correct about the schools and big time football.  One negative, minor and indirect, is that some of the students attending the school seem to do it because of the social/sports scene instead of the academics.  That might be wasteful for them and taxpayers that support the school. 

I do believe that some schools actually subsidize the sports programs (happens more at lower level programs); that is a different animal and is wasteful for everyone involved.  Some of these subsidies are students fees that are basically forced on the students.
Those are two valid, but different points.  

(1) You are definitely right that some students attend the school more for the sports scene than the academics... but that is caused by youth, not by big-time sports.  Literally since the creation of the modern college hundreds of years ago in Europe, there are lots and lots of examples of students going off to school to avoid more serious responsibilities and then not being studious when they get there.  (Read reports of wastrels in 18th century Oxford or Cambridge.  Funny stuff.)  If students didn't have college football to distract them from life, they would find something else.  

(2) You certainly are also right that some schools contribute to their AA's, rather than receiving money from them.  At schools were the athletics department is not self-sufficient, you've got to examine several other factors before concluding that "football is hurting academics."  Often, even if the athletic department isn't self-sufficient, football almost always is.  Even though it is a relatively large sport (by personnel and capital costs), it is also almost the only one that generates any meaningful revenue at all.  So the "problem," as it were, is probably the other non-revenue sports.  And that leads to the issue of Title IX, of course, which mandates schools spend dollars on sports that do not generate revenue.  

We also have to remind ourselves that schools got in the business of athletics long before there was any money to be made... when it was expected that athletics were going to impact the academic budget.  That's because schools are in the business of more than just teaching employment skills.  They're also in the business of training people to be mature, well-rounded and healthy adults.  And the character lessons (and health benefits) of athletics are a legitimate -- even vital -- part of the college mission.  So we should no more lament the impact of athletics budgets on engineering labs than we should the impact of the dance program or the Spanish club on engineering programs.

Last edited 6/5/2014 4:50 PM by 18in32

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Posted: 6/5/2014 5:02 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


George is partially correct in that the power programs are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want the benefits of retaining their collegiate standing while at the same time wanting to graduate into something that caters the profession that is the sporting industry. Every step taken to maximize the business of college sports is one away from the spirit of college sports. At least, under this model.

"Now that's what I call a dead parrot."

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Posted: 6/5/2014 5:08 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



I agree with you. But you and I are dinosaurs, and as a result, we (GT) really cannot compete on a level playing field with the semprp teams. And that frustrates the he** out of me!


---------------------------------------------
--- 67King wrote:


damianjacket wrote: Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.
And of course those withIN the Big 5 are going to be those who will fear coming out publicly and expressing any views that run counter to what they are doing.

Even taking that away, I'm glad he said it, I wish more people would.  I never realized how much athletics drive some of these schools until I moved to an SEC college town.  For example, I have a friend who is an engineer for a construction company who is working on a $2.5M indoor practice facility.......for women's volleyball.  Meanwhile, the dyno labs in the engineering building went at least 8 years (possibly more, haven't been by there) without being repaired because the SCHOOL lacked the money.  The dyno labs are in the basement of the football stadium which was undergoing a $130M rennovation (which started 5 years AFTER the labs burned down).

And the AA spends over $20M a year in debt payments.  www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/tennessee-fi nancial-woes-mostly-due-to-neyland-stadium-renovat ions/

If college football is about minor league football to you, then I suppose you'd disagree with O'Leary.  If you are like me, and college football is about an exciting way to support the academic institution, and you cheer for the players because they are students, too, then you probably agree with him.

---------------------------------------------
'Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.' ~ President Ronald Reagan
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Posted: 6/5/2014 5:24 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 



ylwjacket wrote: Has anyone said if Tech has the money to pay stipends w/o cutting anything?  Seems our AA is in the red all the time, or barely making it.  Can we afford this?

I don't really care if Wake can compete or not.  If not, they can join O'Leary's conference.  I am worried about GT being able to compete.

HLNEngineer wrote:
damianjacket wrote: Of course there is going to be some whining from the non big 5 conferences/schools. However money talks and schools like Wake need to make sure that they can play with the big boys.
Exactly how does this help "schools like Wake" when the teams they have to compete against will get to throw even more money at football by paying a stipend to athletes - money that "schools like Wake"  likely do not have available unless they make significant budget cuts, possibly by going the Maryland route and dropping other sports?

Helena Engineer
I think Helena misunderstood me. The Big 5 isn't about helping anyone. It is about big $$.

I thought about adding Tech to my comments and decided against - but I am glad you did. My larger comment was that we should not consider that the Big 5 composition is final. Schools that bring $ will get in. Central Florida is huge. 58,000 students go there. People can be snobby about them being a directional school or whatever, but if they put buts in seats and eyeballs in front of the flat screen they will join the big club to the detriment of the small schools.

Root for America

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Posted: 6/5/2014 5:28 PM

Re: Big Bee likens Power 5 to the South in the Civil War 


George O'Leary is like a General in the Northern Army, trying to tame the rebelliousness of the SEC. Mike Slive is like a Seargent for the South getting stomped on by the North's vigor.
Huge Paul Johnson and Gregory advocate. Extensions in 2015!

The THOMASBONE, 2014:
QB Justin Thomas Prattville, Alabama
B-Back Zach Laskey Peachtree City, Georgia
A-Back Tony Zenon Albany, Georgia
A-Back Barry Bostic Louisville, Georgia
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