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Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same way,...
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Posted: 2/2/2013 1:00 PM
Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same way,...
For all of you who want to point to academics, curriculum or whatever, go ahead and rest on that crutch. But, Ive closely followed GT football for over 30 years and PJ has to be the worst with respect to recruiting, past coaches consistently signed better talent than he has - so has the curriculum become narrower - NO actually less narrow, is GT harder, gosh i hope not, i still have nightmares about how hard it was in my day. 1. He doesnt hire good recruiters like coaches in the past, assistants like Kelly, Thompson, Giff come to mind, Roof may be the best PJ has hired, but Roof is first and foremost the DC. 2. He doesnt play the game very well, i actually dont mind his "no visit" policy, but good grief, you have to poach others as they are trying to poach your commits, you need to put on the dog and pony shows like Richt does, you have to fight like hell to hold on to recruits during the last 3 weeks. Is he going to learn from the past (does not look like it as it got even worse this year). Why be so stubborn
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Posted: 2/2/2013 1:01 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
"philosophy is important to the man who is weak of self and purpose"
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Posted: 2/2/2013 1:24 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
There, there..... Feel better now?  |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 1:28 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
Haha. Can we delete these threads? Do we have to discuss this over and over..
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Posted: 2/2/2013 1:30 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
Maybe if CPJ recruited differently, the thread would go away on it's own.
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Posted: 2/2/2013 1:44 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
I don't know, have you actually bothered to look at the data? Here are some statistics that I posted on another thread. If you look at the GT class ranking based on the average star rating of the recruit, rather than the way classes are listed in the class rankings (which highly biased toward large recruiting classes) then CPJ hasn't done so badly
2012 - 34th
2011 - 44th
2010 - 34th
2009 - 28th
2008 - 32nd
2007 - 16th
2006 - 41st
2005 - 43rd
2004 - 37th
2003 - 36th
Certainly the talent that he pulls in stacks up pretty well against Gailey's classes. O'Leary probably recruited better, but only about 50% of his recruits made it to their senior season and he had a horrible graduation rate. Bill Curry didn't pull in the star power either. I can remember years looking in at the paper at the AJC top 50 and not seeing a single GT signee in the list.
Last edited 2/2/2013 1:45 PM by pwalker8
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:01 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
pwalker8 wrote: I don't know, have you actually bothered to look at the data? Here are some statistics that I posted on another thread. If you look at the GT class ranking based on the average star rating of the recruit, rather than the way classes are listed in the class rankings (which highly biased toward large recruiting classes) then CPJ hasn't done so badly
2012 - 34th
2011 - 44th
2010 - 34th
2009 - 28th
2008 - 32nd
2007 - 16th
2006 - 41st
2005 - 43rd
2004 - 37th
2003 - 36th
Certainly the talent that he pulls in stacks up pretty well against Gailey's classes. O'Leary probably recruited better, but only about 50% of his recruits made it to their senior season and he had a horrible graduation rate. Bill Curry didn't pull in the star power either. I can remember years looking in at the paper at the AJC top 50 and not seeing a single GT signee in the list. really? because chan's 2006 team had 10 NFL starters on it in our starting 22 and 12 NFL players on it. Then he brought in the 07 class and we know about that. That was in Chan's 4th year. This is pauls 5th or 6th right? please...there isn't close to that talent on his team. point is rankings for GT do NOT trend with player quality on the field. PJ is not even CLOSE to the talent level Chan brought in. Not CLOSE; despite what the rankings are. Paul's eye for talent is nil compared to chans and that is the difference IMO. That and it appears his player development is really average. However chan's ability to coach is probably nil compared to paul. Both have their serious deficiencies. bottom line IMO paul is and has not been a good recruiter despite how similar the rankings appear. however fixing recruiting is easier than fixing poor coaching, because poor coaches who do something the same for 30 years don't change much. Paul can help his recruiting by changing a few things, getting rid of 3 assts that come to mind, and working harder with the hill like past coaches did. Oh and bring back ciano.
Last edited 2/2/2013 2:04 PM by 33jacket
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:13 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
oldwreck wrote: Maybe if CPJ recruited differently, the thread would go away on it's own. You're not serious, are you? If we signed the top 5 recruits in the country, someone would complain because #6 chose some other school over us. |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:14 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
WhiteGoldSphinx wrote:
oldwreck wrote: Maybe if CPJ recruited differently, the thread would go away on it's own.
You're not serious, are you? If we signed the top 5 recruits in the country, someone would complain because #6 chose some other school over us. really, how many complained in 07 and that wasn't even a top 15 class. Hard to really think of people complaining. get real. most here know our challenges and most also know we are better than what paul is doing.
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:16 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
well, we are currently ranked 64th, 3 days prior to signing day, so if that holds, it will be the worst recruiting class by over 20 spots, or 33% worse the the next worst class??? Im confused by your post
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:17 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
33jacket wrote:
pwalker8 wrote: I don't know, have you actually bothered to look at the data? Here are some statistics that I posted on another thread. If you look at the GT class ranking based on the average star rating of the recruit, rather than the way classes are listed in the class rankings (which highly biased toward large recruiting classes) then CPJ hasn't done so badly
2012 - 34th
2011 - 44th
2010 - 34th
2009 - 28th
2008 - 32nd
2007 - 16th
2006 - 41st
2005 - 43rd
2004 - 37th
2003 - 36th
Certainly the talent that he pulls in stacks up pretty well against Gailey's classes. O'Leary probably recruited better, but only about 50% of his recruits made it to their senior season and he had a horrible graduation rate. Bill Curry didn't pull in the star power either. I can remember years looking in at the paper at the AJC top 50 and not seeing a single GT signee in the list. really? because chan's 2006 team had 10 NFL starters on it in our starting 22 and 12 NFL players on it. Then he brought in the 07 class and we know about that. That was in Chan's 4th year. This is pauls 5th or 6th right? please...there isn't close to that talent on his team.
point is rankings for GT do NOT trend with player quality on the field. PJ is not even CLOSE to the talent level Chan brought in. Not CLOSE; despite what the rankings are.
Paul's eye for talent is nil compared to chans and that is the difference IMO. That and it appears his player development is really average. However chan's ability to coach is probably nil compared to paul. Both have their serious deficiencies.
bottom line IMO paul is and has not been a good recruiter despite how similar the rankings appear. however fixing recruiting is easier than fixing poor coaching, because poor coaches who do something the same for 30 years don't change much. Paul can help his recruiting by changing a few things, getting rid of 3 assts that come to mind, and working harder with the hill like past coaches did.
Oh and bring back ciano. Ahh - I get it. Stars count, except for us, right? I swear - for a fanbase that is allegedly highly-educated, we sure have a large contingent that is severely detached from reality. |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:27 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
WhiteGoldSphinx wrote:
oldwreck wrote: Maybe if CPJ recruited differently, the thread would go away on it's own.
You're not serious, are you? If we signed the top 5 recruits in the country, someone would complain because #6 chose some other school over us. But that complaining would sure be a lot more fun than the way we complain when we don't get any of the top five.  I am hoping things will improve significantly with Ted Roof on board next year.
Last edited 2/2/2013 2:28 PM by ctmoore8
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:30 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
CPJ has brought in two new coaches this year with excellent recruiting pedigrees.
That's a start, especially when compared to his last coaching hire (just last year), of an assistant from the CFL with zero exposure to the Southeast or big time recruiting.
He needs to get rid of one or two coaches on the staff at a minimum who simply have not demonstrated they can recruit successfully, at a high level, for GT.
We then to get more aggressive with extending offers (ie overoffering).
Douglas doesn't bother me near as much as Opara. Here's a guy who was begging for a GT offer for 5 months and we waited until a week too late to offer him.
The good news is that it simply has to go up from here. It's not possible to get worse.
All in one idiot's opinion, of course!
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:36 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
---------------------------------------------
--- ReckfromAthens wrote:
For all of you who want to point to academics, curriculum or whatever, go ahead and rest on that crutch. But, Ive closely followed GT football for over 30 years and PJ has to be the worst with respect to recruiting, past coaches consistently signed better talent than he has - so has the curriculum become narrower - NO actually less narrow, is GT harder, gosh i hope not, i still have nightmares about how hard it was in my day. 1. He doesnt hire good recruiters like coaches in the past, assistants like Kelly, Thompson, Giff come to mind, Roof may be the best PJ has hired, but Roof is first and foremost the DC. 2. He doesnt play the game very well, i actually dont mind his "no visit" policy, but good grief, you have to poach others as they are trying to poach your commits, you need to put on the dog and pony shows like Richt does, you have to fight like hell to hold on to recruits during the last 3 weeks. Is he going to learn from the past (does not look like it as it got even worse this year). Why be so stubborn
---------------------------------------------
I'm confused, are we referencing Kelly as one of those great recruiters that Johnson doesn't hire? Just because he left recently? Well, he was part of the supposedly subpar recruiting you claim during Johnson's tenure.
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:37 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
33jacket wrote:
WhiteGoldSphinx wrote:
oldwreck wrote: Maybe if CPJ recruited differently, the thread would go away on it's own.
You're not serious, are you? If we signed the top 5 recruits in the country, someone would complain because #6 chose some other school over us. really, how many complained in 07 and that wasn't even a top 15 class. Hard to really think of people complaining.
get real. most here know our challenges and most also know we are better than what paul is doing. Ah, don't like my sarcasm? The point is that some people are never happy. Don't like our current situation? Here you go: athleticdirector@xavier.edu . Mike Bobinski has authority to make changes. Complaining on a forum stirs debate, but accomplishes nothing, because none of us have authority to do anything but not buy tickets or withhold donations to the GTAA. I would have to be a lot more unhappy to resort to those type of tactics. |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:38 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
No im referring to old recruiting coaches, Giff Smith, Lance Thompson, and Charles (I believe that was his first name) Kelly from several years back, he could really bring them in.
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:40 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
I swear the same fonts that claim our recruiting is just fine are the same ones that complain about the lack of talent on our team when we lose.  |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:55 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
2006 would have been Gailey's 5th year. How many of those players where starting in the NFL in 2007? As far as I can tell, two starters from 2006 were in the NFL in 2007. CPJ just finished his 5th year. While I will admit that no one on this year's team is starting in the NFL, it's probably a bit on the early side to be comparing the two teams given that we haven't even reached the draft yet. How many starters from this year's team will be starters in the NFL, or will even make the NFL? Absolutely no idea. Ask me in four years. My guess is that Uzzi will get drafted. I'm not sure if any other starters will make the NFL, it really depends on how they do in the pre-draft camps.
Looking at the 2006 starting line up
Calvin Johnson - drafted 1st rd in 2007
Andrew Gardner - drafted 6th rd 2009
Matt Rhodes
Kevin Tuminello
Nate McManus
Mansfield Wrotto - drafted 4th rd in 2007
Mike Matthews
Reggie Ball
Tashard Choice - drafted 4th round 2008
Mike Cox
James Johnson
Travis Bell
Addamm Oliver
Darryl Richard - drafted 7th round 2009
Joe Anoai
Darrel Robertson
Gary Guyton
Phillip Wheeler - drafted 3rd rd 2008
KaMichael Hall
Avery Roberson
Kenny Scott
Jamel Lewis
Djay Jones
Durant Brooks - drafted 6th round 2008
=======
note Michael Johnson and Vance Walker were both drafted in 2009, but neither were starters in 2006. Mike Cox was undrafted.
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Posted: 2/2/2013 2:59 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
ReckfromAthens wrote: well, we are currently ranked 64th, 3 days prior to signing day, so if that holds, it will be the worst recruiting class by over 20 spots, or 33% worse the the next worst class??? Im confused by your post ranking by average star rating, not ranking by total number of stars. If you look at the average star rating, based on the current verbals which might change, GT would be ranked 35th this year with an average star rating of 3.00[actually we are tied with a couple of teams, 35th is the worse we would be ranked]
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Posted: 2/2/2013 3:08 PM
Re: Will PJ Change or subbornly continue recruiting the same
I agree with weighing average stars over total number of commits, however I certainly won't be bragging if we end up with 1 commit who happens to be a 4*. That might put us in the top 10 average star rankings!
Obviously that example is an extreme exaggeration, but we need to fill all of our available spots with scholarship players, not walk-ons who don't count toward our average star rating.
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