"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
- Sam Cohen

duckhonk wrote: "The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
- Sam Cohen

W T F?

The teenagers will be sighted and sent to jail if they are driving 90 in a 25.

Probably the best Mosster post ever. At least once you get past the opening salvo of look at me.

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--- Mosster47 wrote:

In no way am I anti-gun. I own more than I use and I always seem to end up with more. I reload and all that stuff too.

However, if you feel you need to be carrying a gun to go to the mall then you've backed yourself into a state of paranoia. This is the United States, not central Africa or Israel. There are 300 million people and all have extremely easy access to guns. The number or public shootings are very very low.

Lets say you do happen to hit that one in 300,000,000 chance of being at a public shooting within range of the shooter. With a normal concealed handgun you're looking at around a 3-5" barrel which means you need to be extremely close (5-15 yards). The odds of this happening are zero in the law of large numbers, but stay with me. You have people trained with guns on the way almost instantly. You make your shot and take out the gunmen, which there are now two of, you and the first guy that started shooting. Well now there is just one, you.

If anyone's who has the actual job of stopping this comes to the area and here is you with a gun right in the area where the shooting came from with a gun. Remember the bad guy is down, you're the only guy up with a gun. Guess what happens to you in this mass panic? The cop/security guard doesn't hand you flowers, he shoots you. You don't get to explain to him how awesome you are, he just shoots you and they shoot to kill.

Someone trying to rob you, maybe pull the gun. Public shooting hysteria, keep it in the holster and get to safety.

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howboutthemdux wrote: There will always be guns. You are living in a fantasy world if you think all guns will be taken away. And yes, if I was enjoying a pretzel (with mustard) and something started happening like this and you and perhaps your family were near, would you not want me or someone else who was carrying LEGALLY, to try and help? Has nothing to do with Rambo. It's a crazy world out there Lax. You might want to think about giving yourself a chance at protecting yourself. There was a crazy lady who ran her ex husband over with her car yesterday. Should we ban cars next?

Sorry I couldnt respond sooner I was driving my gun to work.

And now my family is dependent on you for their safety?

Sigh.

I'd rather the first guy didnt have a gun than both of you having guns.

I've never even held a gun and somehow I've managed to make it this far.

Oh well.

couldn't agree more - as our friend who was there and saw her friend shot told her mom last night, don't understand why anyone in the general public needs an assault rifle that holds 30, 50, 100 bullets.  Hunting rifle, ok.  Handgun, fine.  But why anyone in America NEEDS to have an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine is simply beyond me...

Mosster47 wrote: In no way am I anti-gun. I own more than I use and I always seem to end up with more. I reload and all that stuff too.

However, if you feel you need to be carrying a gun to go to the mall then you've backed yourself into a state of paranoia. This is the United States, not central Africa or Israel. There are 300 million people and all have extremely easy access to guns. The number or public shootings are very very low.

Lets say you do happen to hit that one in 300,000,000 chance of being at a public shooting within range of the shooter. With a normal concealed handgun you're looking at around a 3-5" barrel which means you need to be extremely close (5-15 yards). The odds of this happening are zero in the law of large numbers, but stay with me. You have people trained with guns on the way almost instantly. You make your shot and take out the gunmen, which there are now two of, you and the first guy that started shooting. Well now there is just one, you.

If anyone's who has the actual job of stopping this comes to the area and here is you with a gun right in the area where the shooting came from with a gun. Remember the bad guy is down, you're the only guy up with a gun. Guess what happens to you in this mass panic? The cop/security guard doesn't hand you flowers, he shoots you. You don't get to explain to him how awesome you are, he just shoots you and they shoot to kill.

Someone trying to rob you, maybe pull the gun. Public shooting hysteria, keep it in the holster and get to safety.

A little ironic this morning as I was reading my email.  I received a Groupon in the Portland area for a concealed weapons permit class.  Bet those are going like hotcakes.

This was a horrific incident, and makes everyone either affraid to out in public or get this idea they need to pack some heat. But really, your chances of getting killed by a Texting driving are way worse.

Would you have shot the crazy lady with the car if you were there?

Just asking.

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

There will always be guns. You are living in a fantasy world if you think all guns will be taken away. And yes, if I was enjoying a pretzel (with mustard) and something started happening like this and you and perhaps your family were near, would you not want me or someone else who was carrying LEGALLY, to try and help? Has nothing to do with Rambo. It's a crazy world out there Lax. You might want to think about giving yourself a chance at protecting yourself. There was a crazy lady who ran her ex husband over with her car yesterday. Should we ban cars next?

I nominate this for dumbest post of the year! Congrats

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--- ryanallenlee wrote:

Would you have shot the crazy lady with the car if you were there?

Just asking.

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

There will always be guns. You are living in a fantasy world if you think all guns will be taken away. And yes, if I was enjoying a pretzel (with mustard) and something started happening like this and you and perhaps your family were near, would you not want me or someone else who was carrying LEGALLY, to try and help? Has nothing to do with Rambo. It's a crazy world out there Lax. You might want to think about giving yourself a chance at protecting yourself. There was a crazy lady who ran her ex husband over with her car yesterday. Should we ban cars next?

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ryanallenlee wrote: Would you have shot the crazy lady with the car if you were there?

Just asking.

Wait a minute...

Are there GUN CARS!?!?!?!?!?!

If there were, we'd all finally be safe.

I guess you're unable to answer the question directly. Not surprised.

Ok, different question. If you were there, would you have tried to run over the crazy lady with the car with your car? I mean, it seems you're in the business of trying to protect people so I just want to know. Thanks.

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

I nominate this for dumbest post of the year! Congrats

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--- ryanallenlee wrote:

Would you have shot the crazy lady with the car if you were there?

Just asking.

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

There will always be guns. You are living in a fantasy world if you think all guns will be taken away. And yes, if I was enjoying a pretzel (with mustard) and something started happening like this and you and perhaps your family were near, would you not want me or someone else who was carrying LEGALLY, to try and help? Has nothing to do with Rambo. It's a crazy world out there Lax. You might want to think about giving yourself a chance at protecting yourself. There was a crazy lady who ran her ex husband over with her car yesterday. Should we ban cars next?

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Last fall police responded to a shooting at the Empire State Building. The police, trained in the proper use of handguns, drilled on how to respond in tense situations, and arriving at the scene with knowledge of what was happening, managed to leave 9 people wounded. The suggestion a normal citizen pulling out a gun and firing wouldn't have disastrous results makes no sense.
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--- Ducktits37 wrote:

I think you're right laxduck. If there was one good citizen that was there with a concealed carry, it's a lot less likely that this idiot got 60 rounds off. I'm just guessing but I'd imagine he had 30 round magazines. It seems someone could put him down on a reload. Or at any time if they were behind him.

Unfortunately, when everyone is unarmed, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I imagine it's a lot easier to shoot when someone isn't shooting back. It's tragic for the two that were murdered and their families but we can be grateful that this person was such a horrible aim. It had potential to be so much worse.

I never want to be in a situation where I have to watch my friends or family get killed while I wait for the government to get there to protect us. I'm not sure who would want to put themselves in someone else's care like that.

I actually worry when I leave Autzen. It is one of the few places I enter without being ready for the worst. In my mind I wonder what I'd do if someone started shooting while everyone is exiting. I've played it through my mind dozens of times and haven't come up with an answer. There's nothing I can do except for be a victim in that scenario.

Maybe it's that my father was a police officer and almost never went anywhere without a gun, on duty or not. There was one day when i was 15 that he left it in the car while we all went into Taco Bell. And it turned out to be the day that he needed it the most.

But I do think you're right. If guns didn't help end hostile situations, our military and police force wouldn't be taking on the burden of lugging them around.

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Your sarcasm is always entertaining. I understand that you would like all guns taken away. Like I said, that will NEVER happen. I am not advocating flying off the handle and opening up in a situation like yesterday. In cases like that, fleeing is best.

Since the world isn't as safe as we would all like it to be, some choose to be prepared to defend themselves and others. And no, your family doesn't depend on me or other citezens for your safety and odds are they never will.

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--- laxduck wrote:


<blockquote dir="ltr" ><strong>howboutthemdux wrote:</strong> There will always be guns. You are living in a fantasy world if you think all guns will be taken away. And yes, if I was enjoying a pretzel (with mustard) and something started happening like this and you and perhaps your family were near, would you not want me or someone else who was carrying LEGALLY, to try and help? Has nothing to do with Rambo. It's a crazy world out there Lax. You might want to think about giving yourself a chance at protecting yourself. There was a crazy lady who ran her ex husband over with her car yesterday. Should we ban cars next?</blockquote>
Sorry I couldnt respond sooner I was driving my gun to work.

And now my family is dependent on you for their safety?

Sigh.

I'd rather the first guy didnt have a gun than both of you having guns.

I've never even held a gun and somehow I've managed to make it this far.

Oh well.

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You do realize that there is training involved? They don't just hand out permits!
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--- MaxDuck wrote:

Last fall police responded to a shooting at the Empire State Building. The police, trained in the proper use of handguns, drilled on how to respond in tense situations, and arriving at the scene with knowledge of what was happening, managed to leave 9 people wounded. The suggestion a normal citizen pulling out a gun and firing wouldn't have disastrous results makes no sense.
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--- Ducktits37 wrote:

I think you're right laxduck. If there was one good citizen that was there with a concealed carry, it's a lot less likely that this idiot got 60 rounds off. I'm just guessing but I'd imagine he had 30 round magazines. It seems someone could put him down on a reload. Or at any time if they were behind him.

Unfortunately, when everyone is unarmed, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I imagine it's a lot easier to shoot when someone isn't shooting back. It's tragic for the two that were murdered and their families but we can be grateful that this person was such a horrible aim. It had potential to be so much worse.

I never want to be in a situation where I have to watch my friends or family get killed while I wait for the government to get there to protect us. I'm not sure who would want to put themselves in someone else's care like that.

I actually worry when I leave Autzen. It is one of the few places I enter without being ready for the worst. In my mind I wonder what I'd do if someone started shooting while everyone is exiting. I've played it through my mind dozens of times and haven't come up with an answer. There's nothing I can do except for be a victim in that scenario.

Maybe it's that my father was a police officer and almost never went anywhere without a gun, on duty or not. There was one day when i was 15 that he left it in the car while we all went into Taco Bell. And it turned out to be the day that he needed it the most.

But I do think you're right. If guns didn't help end hostile situations, our military and police force wouldn't be taking on the burden of lugging them around.

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A better question would be, if someone was threatening your life, with a gun, a car or a baseball bat... Would you wish you were armed? Not answering your question had nothing to do with not being "able". I just thought it was so far in left field that you surely weren't serious!

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--- ryanallenlee wrote:

I guess you're unable to answer the question directly. Not surprised.

Ok, different question. If you were there, would you have tried to run over the crazy lady with the car with your car? I mean, it seems you're in the business of trying to protect people so I just want to know. Thanks.

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

I nominate this for dumbest post of the year! Congrats

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--- ryanallenlee wrote:

Would you have shot the crazy lady with the car if you were there?

Just asking.

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

There will always be guns. You are living in a fantasy world if you think all guns will be taken away. And yes, if I was enjoying a pretzel (with mustard) and something started happening like this and you and perhaps your family were near, would you not want me or someone else who was carrying LEGALLY, to try and help? Has nothing to do with Rambo. It's a crazy world out there Lax. You might want to think about giving yourself a chance at protecting yourself. There was a crazy lady who ran her ex husband over with her car yesterday. Should we ban cars next?

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--- howboutthemdux wrote:

A better question would be, if someone was threatening your life, with a gun, a car or a baseball bat... Would you wish you were armed? Not answering your question had nothing to do with not being "able". I just thought it was so far in left field that you surely weren't serious!
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In all honesty, I would probably prefer NOT to be armed if I were being held up at gunpoint.

There is no reason for an armed assailant to shoot an unarmed person, as they are no direct threat to them.

If they think I might go to tell on them, then they'll likely shoot me either way, and, likely before I have a chance to pull my theoretical gun.

Now, if I DO have a gun, the two most likely outcomes are:

a) he sees I have a gun and decides he NEEDS to shoot me, as I am a threat, or

b) he shoots me as I attempt to draw my gun, in a form of self defense.

Now, if I am being held up by knifepoint or with a baseball bat, or whatever, I feel pretty good that I'm getting out of that situation alive. I might be missing my wallet, or my cell phone, but, I seriously doubt the assailant wants to make the jump from armed robbery to murder.

In the extremely unlikely case that this guy is a complete crazy and just wants to stab someone... dem's the breaks. It would suck (understatement alert), but, the odds are miniscule, compared to the odds that the gun ends up unintentionally hurting me or my family, or that I, or someone in my family, makes a catastrophic mistake with said gun.

howboutthemdux wrote: A better question would be, if someone was threatening your life, with a gun, a car or a baseball bat... Would you wish you were armed? Not answering your question had nothing to do with not being "able". I just thought it was so far in left field that you surely weren't serious!

Ok, if someone already has a gun out pointing at you and yours is in a concealed position then when you grab for it they will kill you. Sorry "Quick Draw McGraw" but the minute you go from this guy is just using a gun to rob us and scare us to "OH **** HE HAS A GUN TOO" you're dead. He's robbing you so it's point blank and he either has a semi-auto or revolver. No one rules the street with a Blunderbuss' anymore.

If it's a knife he's still going to stab you somewhere central mass, which usually means a slow death. Sure, you might get him in a rush but you're still dead.

I'm not sure what action movies you've been in where you need to shoot out the driver of a car. Lets just face it, if you've ****** up that bad someone is just going to kill you in your sleep. They'll tail you for a week, sneak into your house and put a pipe through your head. Pretty simple stuff.

A baseball bat, you're going to win this one! Well, unless he takes a swing at your head and connects while reaching for the smoke wagon. Then you're dead or worse, your brain doesn't work right anymore.

Once a gun vs. deadly weapon situation is presented all bets are off, it's to the death. If the other guy is already ready already then you're going to lose. The charges for pulling your concealed weapon are very serious as well. You have to believe the legal system won't exactly agree with the legitimate reasons of someone that needs to pack heat to a mall.

Cute post! You are throwing out lots of hypotheticals there. If someone has a gun pointed at you, ya you are pretty much screwed. There are plenty of situations where being armed could save your life. Most of which would not even require firing.

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--- Mosster47 wrote:


<blockquote dir="ltr"><strong>howboutthemdu x wrote:</strong> A better question would be, if someone was threatening your life, with a gun, a car or a baseball bat... Would you wish you were armed? Not answering your question had nothing to do with not being "able". I just thought it was so far in left field that you surely weren't serious!

</blockquote>Ok, if someone already has a gun out pointing at you and yours is in a concealed position then when you grab for it they will kill you. Sorry "Quick Draw McGraw" but the minute you go from this guy is just using a gun to rob us and scare us to "OH **** HE HAS A GUN TOO" you're dead. He's robbing you so it's point blank and he either has a semi-auto or revolver. No one rules the street with a Blunderbuss' anymore.

If it's a knife he's still going to stab you somewhere central mass, which usually means a slow death. Sure, you might get him in a rush but you're still dead.

I'm not sure what action movies you've been in where you need to shoot out the driver of a car. Lets just face it, if you've ****** up that bad someone is just going to kill you in your sleep. They'll tail you for a week, sneak into your house and put a pipe through your head. Pretty simple stuff.

A baseball bat, you're going to win this one! Well, unless he takes a swing at your head and connects while reaching for the smoke wagon. Then you're dead or worse, your brain doesn't work right anymore.

Once a gun vs. deadly weapon situation is presented all bets are off, it's to the death. If the other guy is already ready already then you're going to lose. The charges for pulling your concealed weapon are very serious as well. You have to believe the legal system won't exactly agree with the legitimate reasons of someone that needs to pack heat to a mall.

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you are well within your right not to
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In all honesty, I would probably prefer NOT to be armed if I were being held up at gunpoint.

Shooter identified.
www.registerguard.com/web/news...-rifle.html.csp