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Re: Ron Paul

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Posted: 3/10/2012 8:50 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
Yes keep going......and list what you expect from Romney as your alternative.

Other than there are 57 states that constiute the United States of America, Obama's own words, what more do you want? There is much more evidence of why this person has failed. You know it.

I don't see a refusion on the points I listed however. None. Zip. Zero. HELLO!

With Romney at the helm, unemployment will regress to roughly 4%. Translation. Full Employment!
List? That is it. There is no list.
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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:01 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:
Reddog7 wrote:
So likewise let's hear your rationale of why Romney should replace Obama because of where he's "failed" as president.

Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare
Stimulus
Dodd-Frank finance bill
Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.
Idaho,

Believe me, I was really prepared and looking forward to picking this apart item by item, but in all honesty, when I kept coming back to your last statement above it just made me realize that it's simply impossible to have an honest debate about what you assert. Anyone who keeps insisting that this president is not American in his values amounts to nothing more than false accusations and they will not accept otherwise no matter the proof. This is right up there with the birther's who continue to feel the need to label him as a foreigner contrary to the evidence that has been offered. Also, every time some allegation about him doesn't pan out, opponents then shift to talking about what's "gonna" happen. We were warned that if his healthcare bill passed then there would be Armageddon. And whatever happened to the death panels that were suppose to come about as a result? What about pulling the plug on grandma that we were told would happen? Your calling this president a marxist is the very type of underlying mindset driving so many of those on the right. We even witnessed some idiot come in here claiming top level security clearance accusing the president of being out to overthrow the country. It's no wonder Redman felt discouraged. It's no wonder a growing number of republicans are getting more and more worried about what's going on with the party. It's no wonder a conservative columnist like George Will blasted the party for hypocrisy (like I have). It's no wonder that there are so many recall and/or attempted recall elections after what happen during midterm. The republicans are only focused on beating Obama and nothing else. Mitch McConnell declared this from day one after midterms and in the meantime have done nothing......absolutely nothing.........about jobs and trying to improve the economy. They've been all about Obama and women's health issues (the underlying mindset of the latter being about anti-abortion).

So Idaho you go on buying the he's a do nothing anti-American president. I won't try and reason with you by pointing out his accomplishments that the right keeps trying to downplay or distort. I'm gonna just keep watching the polls showing congress's all time low approval rating while Obama and the economy are continuing to rebound, and hope for the country's sake that the economy keeps improving....knowing that the latch on to any lie/just say no republicans are having nothing to do with it, and that the American public is finally taking note of what's really going on. But don't take my word for it......just look at the polls.

Last edited 3/11/2012 11:07 PM by Reddog7

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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:03 PM

Re: Ron Paul 


.....by the way, we've really gotten off topic here. I started the post being about giving Ron Paul credit.
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Posted: 3/12/2012 3:35 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare
Stimulus
Dodd-Frank finance bill
Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.
Idaho,

Believe me, I was really prepared and looking forward to picking this apart item by item, but in all honesty, when I kept coming back to your last statement above it just made me realize that it's simply impossible to have an honest debate about what you assert. Anyone who keeps insisting that this president is not American in his values amounts to nothing more than false accusations and they will not accept otherwise no matter the proof. This is right up there with the birther's who continue to feel the need to label him as a foreigner contrary to the evidence that has been offered. Also, every time some allegation about him doesn't pan out, opponents then shift to talking about what's "gonna" happen. We were warned that if his healthcare bill passed then there would be Armageddon. And whatever happened to the death panels that were suppose to come about as a result? What about pulling the plug on grandma that we were told would happen? Your calling this president a marxist is the very type of underlying mindset driving so many of those on the right. We even witnessed some idiot come in here claiming top level security clearance accusing the president of being out to overthrow the country. It's no wonder Redman felt discouraged. It's no wonder a growing number of republicans are getting more and more worried about what's going on with the party. It's no wonder a conservative columnist like George Will blasted the party for hypocrisy (like I have). It's no wonder that there are so many recall and/or attempted recall elections after what happen during midterm. The republicans are only focused on beating Obama and nothing else. Mitch McConnell declared this from day one after midterms and in the meantime have done nothing......absolutely nothing.........about jobs and trying to improve the economy. They've been all about Obama and women's health issues (the underlying mindset of the latter being about anti-abortion).

So Idaho you go on buying the he's a do nothing anti-American president. I won't try and reason with you by pointing out his accomplishments that the right keeps trying to downplay or distort. I'm gonna just keep watching the polls showing congress's all time low approval rating while Obama and the economy are continuing to rebound, and hope for the country's sake that the economy keeps improving....knowing that the latch on to any lie/just say no republicans are having nothing to do with it, and that the American public is finally taking note of what's really going on. But don't take my word for it......just look at the polls.
You can't be serious saying Obamas approval rating is rebounding. It is digressing day by day. Oh that's right, his focus is now on stupid college basketball......

Anyway, you have not refuted any of the points I listed. Not one. Because they are irrefutable. As for that fiasco called Obamacare, that will be overturned/repealed. People on the left amaze me. Well, not really as they always historically believe people who have been successfull and worked their a**es off all their lives should share with the less fortunate. Welfare, food stamp etc. recipients who refuse to get off their butts and refuse to quit popping out babies because they know the gov't will take care of them. Meaning me. Gravy train is about to come to a stop.
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Posted: 3/12/2012 3:38 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote: .....by the way, we've really gotten off topic here. I started the post being about giving Ron Paul credit.

You did. And RP needs to fade into the sunset. This bickering amoungst these final four is only fueling a faint ember on the left.
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Posted: 3/12/2012 6:39 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:
Reddog7 wrote:
Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare
Stimulus
Dodd-Frank finance bill
Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.
Idaho,

Believe me, I was really prepared and looking forward to picking this apart item by item, but in all honesty, when I kept coming back to your last statement above it just made me realize that it's simply impossible to have an honest debate about what you assert. Anyone who keeps insisting that this president is not American in his values amounts to nothing more than false accusations and they will not accept otherwise no matter the proof. This is right up there with the birther's who continue to feel the need to label him as a foreigner contrary to the evidence that has been offered. Also, every time some allegation about him doesn't pan out, opponents then shift to talking about what's "gonna" happen. We were warned that if his healthcare bill passed then there would be Armageddon. And whatever happened to the death panels that were suppose to come about as a result? What about pulling the plug on grandma that we were told would happen? Your calling this president a marxist is the very type of underlying mindset driving so many of those on the right. We even witnessed some idiot come in here claiming top level security clearance accusing the president of being out to overthrow the country. It's no wonder Redman felt discouraged. It's no wonder a growing number of republicans are getting more and more worried about what's going on with the party. It's no wonder a conservative columnist like George Will blasted the party for hypocrisy (like I have). It's no wonder that there are so many recall and/or attempted recall elections after what happen during midterm. The republicans are only focused on beating Obama and nothing else. Mitch McConnell declared this from day one after midterms and in the meantime have done nothing......absolutely nothing.........about jobs and trying to improve the economy. They've been all about Obama and women's health issues (the underlying mindset of the latter being about anti-abortion).

So Idaho you go on buying the he's a do nothing anti-American president. I won't try and reason with you by pointing out his accomplishments that the right keeps trying to downplay or distort. I'm gonna just keep watching the polls showing congress's all time low approval rating while Obama and the economy are continuing to rebound, and hope for the country's sake that the economy keeps improving....knowing that the latch on to any lie/just say no republicans are having nothing to do with it, and that the American public is finally taking note of what's really going on. But don't take my word for it......just look at the polls.
You can't be serious saying Obamas approval rating is rebounding. It is digressing day by day.

-I think you're looking at the polls in light of the gasoline prices. I'm referring to polls that has him beating Mitt and Rick along with a higher approval rating than congress. The whole gasoline thing is circumstantial and comes with the territory of being president, even though any economist will tell you that's free enterprise at play. Would you be giving Obama credit if gas prices were instead steadily falling (which he shouldn't get credit for either)? I think we both know the honest answer to that.

Anyway, you have not refuted any of the points I listed. Not one.

-Because you've just listed a lot of stuff here that you simply don't like because of your political beliefs which is why I said it wouldn't do any good if I did.. Whereas I was asking you to show something he said he would do but fell to deliver........which in turn would show him as "not cutting it" (your words). Meanwhile you can't be suggesting that Reddog is backing away from an argument........not after you yourself suddenly avoided the subject of immigration when Redman (in particular) and I both challenged you to substantiate your position, only to be simply told you're done with the subject. You just suddenly didn't want to discuss it anymore when pressed for proof of what you were asserting.



Last edited 3/12/2012 6:40 PM by Reddog7

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Posted: 3/12/2012 8:14 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
-Because you've just listed a lot of stuff here that you simply don't like because of your political beliefs which is why I said it wouldn't do any good if I did..

A lot of stuff here that I simply don't like? What is simple, is that you cannot refute the facts.


Whereas I was asking you to show something he said he would do but fell to deliver........which in turn would show him as "not cutting it" (your words). Meanwhile you can't be suggesting that Reddog is backing away from an argument........not after you yourself suddenly avoided the subject of immigration when Redman (in particular) and I both challenged you to substantiate your position, only to be simply told you're done with the subject.
You just suddenly didn't want to discuss it anymore when pressed for proof of what you were asserting.
 
I did not avoid the subject of Immigration. Illegal by the way. The nuances from you at that time seemed to support it.

I ask you again, refute the points I listed. You can't. Simply put.


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Posted: 3/12/2012 9:12 PM

Re: Ron Paul 


OK Idaho, just some for food for thought.  BTW I agree with many of these points as things I disagree with Obama on.  Maybe for different reasons though :
Idahocard wrote:

Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare 
Romney was the blueprint for this horrendous legislation.  He freaking built the framework as governor of MA.  WTF ?  How you can call yourself a free market capitalist and develop this POS first is beyond me.  Now a crony capitalist I can buy.  Privatized profits and socialized losses isn't free market Mr. Romney.  Obama is wrong on this as well at a national level.

Stimulus
Mitt would have voted for the stimulus as well at the time.  It is easy for him to go back and play Mon. AM QB now, but as a crony capitalist it would be interesting to see how he profited from the downturn in 2008.  It is private info. and he is not an idiot to offer that info. so we will never find outAgain 2 peas in a pod.

Dodd-Frank finance bill
Well intended piece of legislation, an absolute nightmare for US companies.  I do think Romney would have voted against this, there is one point where I'm in agreement with him.

Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Why do we need to stand up to either.  China's currency manipulation ?  We are masters at it.  Russia's bullying other countries ?  We do it better.  Have open dialogue with these two as trade partners.  Instead of one upping one another, recognize that Communism in both these countries are dead/dying.  We won the Cold War without a shot fired.  Let's not renew a new one.  I do disagree with Obama's handling of the missile defense shield.   Maybe Mitt would have handled differently maybe not.
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Can't we be labeled as tyrants by other nations ?  Hell we have destroyed so many lives the past century here at home and abroad.  So if you go and kill a tyrant and install a puppet gov't, is the cure better than the disease ?  Installing the brutal Shah of Iran started the downward spiral of Iran and led to the Revolution in the late 70's.  That Revolution gave rise to one crazy midget that now has us and the world in a real quandry.   This is what we refer to as blowback.  We need to stop meddling in others' affairs and focus on ourselves.  The war you win today, can end up backfiring decades later on you.  Neither Obama or Romney seems to understand this as evidenced by Obama's continuation of the War on Terror and Romney's debates mocking Ron Paul as an "isolationist".
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Romney's proposed budgets aren't even close to being at least balanced, never mind actually reversing the national debt.

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.

They are both politicians that have gotten wealthy by gaming the system in different ways.
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Posted: 3/12/2012 10:13 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:




I did not avoid the subject of Immigration. Illegal by the way. The nuances from you at that time seemed to support it.

-Redman as I recall asked you to produce some stats to back up your argument and you dropped the matter.




I ask you again, refute the points I listed. You can't. Simply put.


- Ok Idaho, to prove my point as a for instance I'll site as an example of your partisan bias regarding your comment about Obama meeting with tyrants as justification of labeling him a failure. Checkout the link below about who met with a tyrant who was behind the killing of innocent people including Americans, and what one prominent individual was willing to offer this tyrant. And then cross reference what Obama did regarding this tyrant. Let's see if your sentiment will be consistent based on your characterization of the president in this regard. And again, this is but one example I'm sighting here just to illustrate my point.......knowing it still won't do any good.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/24/leaked-cable -sen-mccain-promised-to-help-gaddafi-obtain-u-s-mi litary-hardware/

Last edited 3/12/2012 10:15 PM by Reddog7

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Posted: 3/13/2012 1:25 AM

Re: Ron Paul 


wow... agreed!
REDMAN2000 wrote: OK Idaho, just some for food for thought.  BTW I agree with many of these points as things I disagree with Obama on.  Maybe for different reasons though :
Idahocard wrote:

Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare 
Romney was the blueprint for this horrendous legislation.  He freaking built the framework as governor of MA.  WTF ?  How you can call yourself a free market capitalist and develop this POS first is beyond me.  Now a crony capitalist I can buy.  Privatized profits and socialized losses isn't free market Mr. Romney.  Obama is wrong on this as well at a national level.

Stimulus
Mitt would have voted for the stimulus as well at the time.  It is easy for him to go back and play Mon. AM QB now, but as a crony capitalist it would be interesting to see how he profited from the downturn in 2008.  It is private info. and he is not an idiot to offer that info. so we will never find outAgain 2 peas in a pod.

Dodd-Frank finance bill
Well intended piece of legislation, an absolute nightmare for US companies.  I do think Romney would have voted against this, there is one point where I'm in agreement with him.

Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Why do we need to stand up to either.  China's currency manipulation ?  We are masters at it.  Russia's bullying other countries ?  We do it better.  Have open dialogue with these two as trade partners.  Instead of one upping one another, recognize that Communism in both these countries are dead/dying.  We won the Cold War without a shot fired.  Let's not renew a new one.  I do disagree with Obama's handling of the missile defense shield.   Maybe Mitt would have handled differently maybe not.
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Can't we be labeled as tyrants by other nations ?  Hell we have destroyed so many lives the past century here at home and abroad.  So if you go and kill a tyrant and install a puppet gov't, is the cure better than the disease ?  Installing the brutal Shah of Iran started the downward spiral of Iran and led to the Revolution in the late 70's.  That Revolution gave rise to one crazy midget that now has us and the world in a real quandry.   This is what we refer to as blowback.  We need to stop meddling in others' affairs and focus on ourselves.  The war you win today, can end up backfiring decades later on you.  Neither Obama or Romney seems to understand this as evidenced by Obama's continuation of the War on Terror and Romney's debates mocking Ron Paul as an "isolationist".
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Romney's proposed budgets aren't even close to being at least balanced, never mind actually reversing the national debt.

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.

They are both politicians that have gotten wealthy by gaming the system in different ways.

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

 

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Posted: 3/13/2012 4:37 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Q8ty49er wrote: wow... agreed!
REDMAN2000 wrote: OK Idaho, just some for food for thought.  BTW I agree with many of these points as things I disagree with Obama on.  Maybe for different reasons though :
Idahocard wrote:

Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare 
Romney was the blueprint for this horrendous legislation.  He freaking built the framework as governor of MA.  WTF ?  How you can call yourself a free market capitalist and develop this POS first is beyond me.  Now a crony capitalist I can buy.  Privatized profits and socialized losses isn't free market Mr. Romney.  Obama is wrong on this as well at a national level.

Stimulus
Mitt would have voted for the stimulus as well at the time.  It is easy for him to go back and play Mon. AM QB now, but as a crony capitalist it would be interesting to see how he profited from the downturn in 2008.  It is private info. and he is not an idiot to offer that info. so we will never find outAgain 2 peas in a pod.

Dodd-Frank finance bill
Well intended piece of legislation, an absolute nightmare for US companies.  I do think Romney would have voted against this, there is one point where I'm in agreement with him.

Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Why do we need to stand up to either.  China's currency manipulation ?  We are masters at it.  Russia's bullying other countries ?  We do it better.  Have open dialogue with these two as trade partners.  Instead of one upping one another, recognize that Communism in both these countries are dead/dying.  We won the Cold War without a shot fired.  Let's not renew a new one.  I do disagree with Obama's handling of the missile defense shield.   Maybe Mitt would have handled differently maybe not.
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Can't we be labeled as tyrants by other nations ?  Hell we have destroyed so many lives the past century here at home and abroad.  So if you go and kill a tyrant and install a puppet gov't, is the cure better than the disease ?  Installing the brutal Shah of Iran started the downward spiral of Iran and led to the Revolution in the late 70's.  That Revolution gave rise to one crazy midget that now has us and the world in a real quandry.   This is what we refer to as blowback.  We need to stop meddling in others' affairs and focus on ourselves.  The war you win today, can end up backfiring decades later on you.  Neither Obama or Romney seems to understand this as evidenced by Obama's continuation of the War on Terror and Romney's debates mocking Ron Paul as an "isolationist".
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Romney's proposed budgets aren't even close to being at least balanced, never mind actually reversing the national debt.

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.

They are both politicians that have gotten wealthy by gaming the system in different ways.
There are some things I agree with in RED's response but I'd hardly declare it a "wow" moment. I would summarize my response by arguing that blow back comes in various forms, and one that we cannot afford to be on the receiving end of is large scale terrorism. How we got to this point leaves plenty of validity in some of what RED' has argued here IMO, but the debate is how do we deal with it now and avoid making the same mistakes in the process. I think this is an area of example where Ron Paul comes up short and generates very little confidence. I wouldn't go so far as to say Ron Paul is an isolationist, but I would suggest he's a bit of an idealist. Sure businesses for example should be allowed to run things as they see fit, but if they discriminate against people because of their race then it's unrealistic to simply say "just don't go there......go somewhere else where they don't. That doesn't address the problem.....which of course you have to acknowledge that there is one to begin with. My example here is where his son ran into trouble to the point of backtracking. We can't afford that on a high stakes foreign policy level.

The fact that some other nations have "the bomb' can in and of itself be characterized as blow back, given that it started here with us and that we have actually used it on another country. But you can't just rationalize it away by saying we created this mess so cool it. When radical factions who would just as soon kill themselves along with others start pursuing such a thing then you have to be prepared and willing to act no matter how much you hate the idea of war or how mistaken you were in the past that might have contributed to it and/or led up to this point. You can't just say it's none of our affair, or simply reason that had we not done thus and so (i.e. Iran) then this wouldn't be happening, and thereby sit back and do nothing......even if there is some validity to such observation.To this presidents credit he's rebuking all the lose talk of war and warning that such impulses are what helped get us into the war he's just ended and the one he's trying to end. That's what makes him different, like him or not.

There is no doubt in my mind if Ron Paul were to end up in the oval office that he would end up compromising some of his positions that his followers hold dear too.....just like Obama has had to do. Life and reality just has a way of doing that to you once you're in a position of authority and accountability. Doesn't always coincide with ones beliefs and value systems.

Last edited 3/13/2012 4:39 PM by Reddog7

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Posted: 3/13/2012 6:18 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
-I think you're looking at the polls in light of the gasoline prices. I'm referring to polls that has him beating Mitt and Rick along with a higher approval rating than congress. The whole gasoline thing is circumstantial and comes with the territory of being president, even though any economist will tell you that's free enterprise at play. Would you be giving Obama credit if gas prices were instead steadily falling (which he shouldn't get credit for either)? I think we both know the honest answer to that.

-Because you've just listed a lot of stuff here that you simply don't like because of your political beliefs which is why I said it wouldn't do any good if I did.

Because you cannot refute those points.

 Whereas I was asking you to show something he said he would do but fell to deliver........which in turn would show him as "not cutting it" (your words). Meanwhile you can't be suggesting that Reddog is backing away from an argument........not after you yourself suddenly avoided the subject of immigration when Redman (in particular) and I both challenged you to substantiate your position, only to be simply told you're done with the subject. You just suddenly didn't want to discuss it anymore when pressed for proof of what you were asserting.

The facts are there. And I am not pressed for proof about anything asserted. You, my dear brother, have been pressed for proof line by line why Obama has failed. You have yet to answer.



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Posted: 3/13/2012 6:49 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



REDMAN2000 wrote: OK Idaho, just some for food for thought.  BTW I agree with many of these points as things I disagree with Obama on.  Maybe for different reasons though :
Idahocard wrote:

Failures of the destroyer of America. (Just to name a few)

Obamacare 
Romney was the blueprint for this horrendous legislation.  He freaking built the framework as governor of MA.  WTF ?  How you can call yourself a free market capitalist and develop this POS first is beyond me.  Now a crony capitalist I can buy.  Privatized profits and socialized losses isn't free market Mr. Romney.  Obama is wrong on this as well at a national level.

Stimulus
Mitt would have voted for the stimulus as well at the time.  It is easy for him to go back and play Mon. AM QB now, but as a crony capitalist it would be interesting to see how he profited from the downturn in 2008.  It is private info. and he is not an idiot to offer that info. so we will never find outAgain 2 peas in a pod.

Dodd-Frank finance bill
Well intended piece of legislation, an absolute nightmare for US companies.  I do think Romney would have voted against this, there is one point where I'm in agreement with him.

Blocking Keystone
Failure to stand up to Russia and China
Why do we need to stand up to either.  China's currency manipulation ?  We are masters at it.  Russia's bullying other countries ?  We do it better.  Have open dialogue with these two as trade partners.  Instead of one upping one another, recognize that Communism in both these countries are dead/dying.  We won the Cold War without a shot fired.  Let's not renew a new one.  I do disagree with Obama's handling of the missile defense shield.   Maybe Mitt would have handled differently maybe not.
Unemployment
Bowing to Saudi King
Proposing amnesty
Walked out on Netanyahu
Willing to meet with tyrants
Can't we be labeled as tyrants by other nations ?  Hell we have destroyed so many lives the past century here at home and abroad.  So if you go and kill a tyrant and install a puppet gov't, is the cure better than the disease ?  Installing the brutal Shah of Iran started the downward spiral of Iran and led to the Revolution in the late 70's.  That Revolution gave rise to one crazy midget that now has us and the world in a real quandry.   This is what we refer to as blowback.  We need to stop meddling in others' affairs and focus on ourselves.  The war you win today, can end up backfiring decades later on you.  Neither Obama or Romney seems to understand this as evidenced by Obama's continuation of the War on Terror and Romney's debates mocking Ron Paul as an "isolationist".
Apologizing to Afgans over accidental burning of Koran
6 American soldiers murdered because of it-not a word
Touts a Green Energy co. as "exemplary" which fails a year later
Restricting oil exploration
Proposed a budget for 2012 that would have raised our debt to 23
trillion dollars by 2023. A 64% increase. Thank God it was shot down

Romney's proposed budgets aren't even close to being at least balanced, never mind actually reversing the national debt.

Need I go on? There is plenty more

He is a smug, arrogant Marxist. And voters had better wake the hell up.

They are both politicians that have gotten wealthy by gaming the system in different ways.
So. Ron Paul does not stand a chance. He, Santorum, and Gingrich need to stop this nonsense and give full backing to Mitt Romney. Right now. Otherwise, it will be status quo. Barack Hussein Obama.
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Posted: 3/13/2012 6:58 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:
Reddog7 wrote:
-I think you're looking at the polls in light of the gasoline prices. I'm referring to polls that has him beating Mitt and Rick along with a higher approval rating than congress. The whole gasoline thing is circumstantial and comes with the territory of being president, even though any economist will tell you that's free enterprise at play. Would you be giving Obama credit if gas prices were instead steadily falling (which he shouldn't get credit for either)? I think we both know the honest answer to that.

-Because you've just listed a lot of stuff here that you simply don't like because of your political beliefs which is why I said it wouldn't do any good if I did.

Because you cannot refute those points.

Whereas I was asking you to show something he said he would do but fell to deliver........which in turn would show him as "not cutting it" (your words). Meanwhile you can't be suggesting that Reddog is backing away from an argument........not after you yourself suddenly avoided the subject of immigration when Redman (in particular) and I both challenged you to substantiate your position, only to be simply told you're done with the subject. You just suddenly didn't want to discuss it anymore when pressed for proof of what you were asserting.

The facts are there. And I am not pressed for proof about anything asserted. You, my dear brother, have been pressed for proof line by line why Obama has failed. You have yet to answer.



You're being evasive now. You touted that I hadn't refuted not one of you assertions and after my telling you why........I then offered you here an example to prove my point, and your response is true to form. It doesn't matter if I went down the entire list (which I could do) because you won't accept credibility to the contrary of what you're asserting about the president.

If you're to present a consistent argument here bro' on the example I've challenged you with, then you'd have to acknowledge that the guy you voted for not only did what you're labeling Obama a failure for, but he (McCain) even took it a step farther than just meeting with a tyrant.......he offered him weapons! So c'mon.......anybody reading this...... if Obama privately met with a Muslim dictator that played a part in the Pan Am bombing which included the lives of many innocent Americans and offered him weapons in the process........it would be hailed as exhibit A as to how anti-American he is. So it doesn't take going through your entire list here my friend to prove my point as you have just shown. It's the same old lowering the bar, double standard argument I've been hearing for the last three plus years. But that's okay, at least now you can't honestly say that I did not refute even one thing that you said .  I could do even more, but I think this proves why bother.

Last edited 3/13/2012 7:38 PM by Reddog7

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Posted: 3/13/2012 8:28 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:


You're being evasive now. You touted that I hadn't refuted not one of you assertions and after my telling you why........I then offered you here an example to prove my point, and your response is true to form. It doesn't matter if I went down the entire list (which I could do) because you won't accept credibility to the contrary of what you're asserting about the president.

I have never evaded anything in my entire life. Other than something I woke up to years ago.

Again, refute the entire list. Line by line. I know, all will be about credibility. Liberaly speaking of course.
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Posted: 3/13/2012 9:20 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:
Reddog7 wrote:


You're being evasive now. You touted that I hadn't refuted not one of you assertions and after my telling you why........I then offered you here an example to prove my point, and your response is true to form. It doesn't matter if I went down the entire list (which I could do) because you won't accept credibility to the contrary of what you're asserting about the president.

I have never evaded anything in my entire life. Other than something I woke up to years ago.

LOL!!!.....biggrin


Again, refute the entire list. Line by line. I know, all will be about credibility. Liberaly speaking of course.

-If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge the one example I pointed out, how can I expect you to do so with any of the other stuff you said? You know, it sounds like in essence you're really taking the position of: "okay, that is only one thing" but without coming right out and saying it after claiming I couldn't even refute even one item. And no it's not just all about credibility. Another example would be unfounded slander being used to define him as a failure (un-American). Also to be clear, I'm not one of those Obama supporters who try and pretend he's done everything right. He promised immigration reform for example and hasn't delivered on that promise. But that doesn't make him a failure as a president nor serve as proof that he's not cutting it as you say. So again to the original question, what characterizes his presidency thus far as a failure as you claim? Not what it is that you just don't like about him. If you were to give a historical account of his presidency to date........what could you point to with credibility that would define his presidency as a failure to the nation that set us back in some way? If you were to ask me that question about George Bush for example, history could point to the Iraq war given the reason we went there, and also the near collapse of the American economy under his watch. Those aren't partisan attacks, double standard arguments or accusations as reflected in your list. Those are a matter of historical record and a reality that reflect defining moments during his tenure as president, regardless of party or political ideology. This is the context I was attempting to approach you with my question.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 2:17 AM

Re: Ron Paul 


its a "wow" because i actually agree with a bit of what Redman has to say for once! tongue

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

 

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Posted: 3/14/2012 2:59 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Q8ty49er wrote: its a "wow" because i actually agree with a bit of what Redman has to say for once! tongue
I knew you'd come around pirate
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Posted: 3/14/2012 3:11 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:
So. Ron Paul does not stand a chance. He, Santorum, and Gingrich need to stop this nonsense and give full backing to Mitt Romney. Right now. Otherwise, it will be status quo. Barack Hussein Obama.
Yeah Romney had a solid performance in the South yesterday rolleyes

Still think it doesn't matter to Evangelical Christians that Romney is Mormon ?

It isn't that they will vote for Obama, they just won't vote.  We saw it with McCain in 2008.  So the conservative base, Libertarians, and the religious right are against Romney.  Yeah good luck in November Mitt. 

I look forward to the 1st debate where Romney brings up Obamacare as a disaster, and Obama responds, "I'm sorry for taking credit for your idea Mitt.  If you're mad at someone plagiarizing your idea then I'm guilty as charged."
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Posted: 3/14/2012 5:26 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



REDMAN2000 wrote:
I look forward to the 1st debate where Romney brings up Obamacare as a disaster, and Obama responds, "I'm sorry for taking credit for your idea Mitt.  If you're mad at someone plagiarizing your idea then I'm guilty as charged."

Well my sometimes long lost son, if you think Obama is the better choice over Romney in 2012, what can I say? By the way, your last two sentences in quotation marks would be read off a teleprompter anyway!!!!!!!
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Posted: 3/14/2012 5:51 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
 If you were to ask me that question about George Bush for example, history could point to the Iraq war given the reason we went there, and also the near collapse of the American economy under his watch. Those aren't partisan attacks, double standard arguments or accusations as reflected in your list. Those are a matter of historical record and a reality that reflect defining moments during his tenure as president, regardless of party or political ideology. This is the context I was attempting to approach you with my question.
Dog.   Bush had major faults and blunders too. I acknowledge that. So has every President. My concern is the abyss we are currently in (Doesn't matter how we got here), is being exacerbated by this President.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 7:01 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



REDMAN2000 wrote:
Q8ty49er wrote: its a "wow" because i actually agree with a bit of what Redman has to say for once! tongue
I knew you'd come around pirate

LOL!......those guys in Washington could probably learn a thing or two from you guys. tongue
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Posted: 3/14/2012 7:04 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



REDMAN2000 wrote:
Idahocard wrote:
So. Ron Paul does not stand a chance. He, Santorum, and Gingrich need to stop this nonsense and give full backing to Mitt Romney. Right now. Otherwise, it will be status quo. Barack Hussein Obama.
Yeah Romney had a solid performance in the South yesterday rolleyes

Still think it doesn't matter to Evangelical Christians that Romney is Mormon ?

It isn't that they will vote for Obama, they just won't vote.  We saw it with McCain in 2008.  So the conservative base, Libertarians, and the religious right are against Romney.  Yeah good luck in November Mitt. 

I look forward to the 1st debate where Romney brings up Obamacare as a disaster, and Obama responds, "I'm sorry for taking credit for your idea Mitt.  If you're mad at someone plagiarizing your idea then I'm guilty as charged."

If Newt' were to step aside like he really should by now......Rick would overtake Romney. Saw the stats just a few days ago on the news.
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Posted: 3/14/2012 7:33 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Idahocard wrote:
Reddog7 wrote:
 If you were to ask me that question about George Bush for example, history could point to the Iraq war given the reason we went there, and also the near collapse of the American economy under his watch. Those aren't partisan attacks, double standard arguments or accusations as reflected in your list. Those are a matter of historical record and a reality that reflect defining moments during his tenure as president, regardless of party or political ideology. This is the context I was attempting to approach you with my question.
Dog.   Bush had major faults and blunders too. I acknowledge that. So has every President. My concern is the abyss we are currently in (Doesn't matter how we got here), is being exacerbated by this President.

And that's the part of your argument I'm trying to get you to substantiate Idaho'.   Your assertion speaks (supposedly) to decisions he's made or something he's done as president that have (not will as republicans assert.....but have) contributed to our current problems. What are they and what was the negative impact on jobs and the overall economy? You see Romney once asserted along the same lines as you that instead of making things better.....he's made matters worse. He said that speaking before supporters on video, only to turnaround and then deny what he was recorded saying. You mentioned in your list (recalling off the top of my head as I write this) such things as Obamacare, meeting with tyrants, stimulus, unemployment, something about apologizing to Afgans, etc. .How is America defined as worse off by this president because of such things? Has unemployment for example been made worse by this president and is an example of what you mean by his failure and making things worse? That was one of the things on your list to make your case wasn't it? So how so?

Last edited 3/14/2012 7:34 PM by Reddog7

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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:07 AM

Re: Ron Paul 


Any comments Redman?



http://news.yahoo.com/why-ron-paul-may-cut-deal-mi tt-romney-092118733.html
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:33 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
And that's the part of your argument I'm trying to get you to substantiate Idaho'.   Your assertion speaks (supposedly) to decisions he's made or something he's done as president that have (not will as republicans assert.....but have) contributed to our current problems. What are they and what was the negative impact on jobs and the overall economy? You see Romney once asserted along the same lines as you that instead of making things better.....he's made matters worse. He said that speaking before supporters on video, only to turnaround and then deny what he was recorded saying. You mentioned in your list (recalling off the top of my head as I write this) such things as Obamacare, meeting with tyrants, stimulus, unemployment, something about apologizing to Afgans, etc. .How is America defined as worse off by this president because of such things? Has unemployment for example been made worse by this president and is an example of what you mean by his failure and making things worse? That was one of the things on your list to make your case wasn't it? So how so?
Your use's of the word's assert, asserting, assertions are mind boggling. That is ascertained. I'll give you an A+..biggrin

However, you still have not refuted my very well publicised and true claims regarding the current President.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 10:34 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote: Any comments Redman?



http://news.yahoo.com/why-ron-paul-may-cut-deal-mi tt-romney-092118733.html

The link won't come up for me bro.  I can't seem to find it on Yahoo at the moment, don't know why ?  If you can repost the link I'll read it.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:06 PM

Re: Ron Paul 



Reddog7 wrote:
Idahocard wrote:
Reddog7 wrote:
 If you were to ask me that question about George Bush for example, history could point to the Iraq war given the reason we went there, and also the near collapse



What are they and what was the negative impact on jobs and the overall economy? You see Romney once asserted along the same lines as you that instead of making things better.....he's made matters worse.  You mentioned in your list (recalling off the top of my head as I write this) such things as Obamacare, meeting with tyrants, stimulus, unemployment, something about apologizing to Afgans, etc. .How is America defined as worse off by this president because of such things?
OK let me weigh in on this because as usual I see things a bit differently.  First off, the economic crisis was not caused by Bill Clinton, GW, or Obama.  From an Austrian economist view point, the way the Federal Reserve handled the post-dot com bubble really kicked it off.  We had tremendous malinvestment in the dot com era that we could talk all day about.  Instead of letting the economy work itself out and let the markets punish those who foolishly invested in tech stocks, etc. we instead slashed interest rates extremely low.  Thus all this cheap money had to find a place to go.  Along with the bursting of the dot com bubble; alas we create the housing bubble.  It shoots to the moon, and then crashes harder.  What bubble is being formed now?  A new one in US equities (after all how can stocks be soaring to new records with unemployment and most economic data still suggesting a weak "recovery") ? Is the US currency itself becoming a bubble that will crash ?  It will take time for the dust to settle, but by not allowing markets to reallocate resources efficiently in a process that takes time to work itself out the bubble gets bigger and the crashes worse.  As bad as the economy has been, it should have been a lot worse.  Interest rates being held this low send dangerous signals to consumers and businesses to spend and expand at a time when they should have been contracting and raising capital.  Consumers should have learned to be more thrifty and save more.  The reliance on consumption for the US GDP needs to be reduced to healthy levels instead of needing to maintain over 70 %, an absurd number.

Now as for how Bush and Obama have hurt the economy, there are many parallels.  I will just elaborate on one example.  Bush gave the Seniors Medicare Part D in exchange for their support in the polls.  It worked magnificently.  Obama gave the poor Obamacare.  I also predict it will work magnificently come Nov.  Both will choke off future growth.  Two things that are facts :  The national debt will continue to skyrocket no matter who is elected, and interest rates will surely rise.  That affects the amount of interest that the federal gov't pays out of revenues.  SO at about the same time these two programs really wreak havoc on our spending, our interest rates will rise.  Imagine the rates you and Idaho paid for a mortgage in the early 80's.  Juxtapose that with the rates of today.  Federal debt repaymnets six fold what we pay today.  More Taxation or hidden tax of inflation.  FDR and LBJ could not have possibly fathomed how cumbersome Social Security and Medicare would be on our budgets of today.  Likewise, Obama's and Bush's problems will be handled by a different president years from now.
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Posted: 3/17/2012 10:06 AM

Re: Ron Paul 



REDMAN2000 wrote:
Reddog7 wrote: Any comments Redman?



http://news.yahoo.com/why-ron-paul-may-cut-deal-mi tt-romney-092118733.html

The link won't come up for me bro.  I can't seem to find it on Yahoo at the moment, don't know why ?  If you can repost the link I'll read it.

Hmmm........let's try it again here nephew.

http://swampland.time.com/2012...th-mitt-romney/
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Posted: 3/18/2012 8:24 PM

Re: Ron Paul 


I'd be surprised if Ron Paul did this.  Sounds like a baseless article to me.  Why ?  He already enjoys name recognition, he didn't several years ago.  His message is out there already.  The problem is our country is made up of a bunch of lunatics who do the same thing over and over expecting different results.  eek1

The GOP doesn't want his message to get out so they won't support even if Romeny and Paul wanted it to happen.  Besides, the way we have been treated by the Romney camp and his LDS disciples at GOP conventions - as far as I'm concerned Romney can go F*ck himself.  He is a corporatist just like Obama.  They just took different paths to get there.
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