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Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!!

  • tzo45
  • Veteran
  • 131 posts this site

Posted: 11/18/2012 2:34 PM

Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


This guy is just to indecisive and his own players have lost confidence in this guy!! How the hell do you pull your qb early in the second quarter when you are up by 2 scores? With the season on the line? Lets promote ray horton and get this clown out of here..
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Posted: 11/18/2012 4:30 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Maybe his players saw their QB as the clown needing to be kicked to the curb?  Skelton has a pretty decent record for doing just enough to win down the stretch so I was not in favor of the move, personally.  I just know I'm not inside the Cardinals locker room.
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Posted: 11/18/2012 5:08 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


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Posted: 11/18/2012 5:17 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Horton either gets promoted or leaves for another HC job.....I believe that both Graves and Whuz are gone at the end of the year. They survived last year ONLY becuase of the half of the season. IF Michael is true to his word as some have said privately they are gone after this dismal season. Whuz is another in the line of OC's that think they can be a head coach...Graves...well look at that dismal record in drafts outside of the first two rounds, and all his hirings..GAME FILM DON'T LIE"...I will remain a seasons ticket holder but having 4 seats is getting tougher to find two people to come with. After this year it is down to two seats....
BE MORE CONCERNED WITH YOUR CHARACTER THAN YOUR REPUTATION. YOUR CHARACTER IS WHO YOU REALLY ARE, AND YOUR REPUTATION IS ONLY WHAT OTHERS THINK YOUR ARE.....
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Posted: 11/18/2012 8:28 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


You know I had the same thought today.  I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Horton is gone after this year.  He has only been here for 2 years, but I know this : 

The guys on Defense play for him.  They are a well disciplined group that has bought in 100 % to his plan.  Most teams would have given up in this and other games.  They fight their *** off for him.  

Now juxtapose that with the Offense.  We have had 3 straight years of not developing any semblance for more than 3 games of a competent QB.  We have tried drafting players, trading for guys.  Our entire Offense has been handpicked by the FO, HC, and OC, along with positional coaches.  

Yes it feels like a knee jerk reaction right now, however, I really think there is a 50/50 chance of Whiz being around next season.  Man the Offense is horrendous.  I mean freaking bush-league.  The only way I see Whiz sticking around is if he pulls a Lovie Smith and guts his entire Offensive coaching staff.  I'm not sure that is something he will do.

I am starting to side with the lets evaluate Horton crowd.  He has transformed the Defense in really a season (without a full offseason because of lockout).  Unfortunately for Whiz and Co. this team is too good to be going through these constant losing streaks.  Change is stirring in the air after this game pretty strong.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 6:01 AM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Look at the roster for the Cardinals and tell me that this team is too good to consistently be more than a 7-9 or 8-8 team. Look at it from an outsiders point of view and not your heart, like most of us are. There are holes everywhere. jmo

Last edited 11/19/2012 6:02 AM by duecer54

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Posted: 11/19/2012 10:34 AM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


On Defense I am pleased with everyone on our roster.  Gay being the lone exception, but the health of the other 2 CB's is what we are missing.

On ST, I am pleased with our roster.

On Offense, I am pleased with our starting WR's and our RB's.  they're just hurt right now, but LSH has produced at times nicely.

The O-line and QB spots are my issues.  My issue is this line was handpicked by our coaches and FO.  Our QB's have also been handpicked.  

There aren't holes everywhere unless you're referring to the spots where injuries have occurred.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 11:49 AM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Holy Bungling gentlemen.

The one thing that always sticks out with me when I see the Cards play is the OLine.  In the Warner days, he was quick and accurate enough to make up for that.   It wasn't like the Cards had a great running game then, they were a passing offense by far.

Regardless of coach or QB, none of that is going to matter unless the guys up front are capable.   Some of that is coaching, most of it is talent.  Now, for Whisenhunt to allow this to happen is his fault.   That team should be drafting no less than two Oline guys in the first 3 rounds EVERY YEAR and paying a solid FA every year to come on board until the line is solid, with DEPTH.  Even if they miss on one or two, they must continue until they find consistency there.  QB rotations do not matter when there is that level of play on the line.  Yes, the Cards ran well yesterday, that is not typical.  A guy like Kolb and even Skelton would look a lot better with anything resembling an Oline.    Sure, if they can find a gunslinging QB, with quick reaction and long experience it can hide it, but that guy just isn't available right now.

I think Whis should be fired, he allowed this team to be built this way.  The Cards have the contract of what I consider to be by far the best WR in the game, one who can take over a situation and there is absolutely no time to make him a factor.


That defense is too good to go to waste.  They work too hard for the showing on the opposite side of the ball.  The inept offense is exposing them to failure as they are constantly having to fight off losses on their own.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is
 not whether we broke a few rules or took a few
 liberties with our female party guests.........we did"
  -- Eric "Otter" Stratton
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  • tzo45
  • Veteran
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Posted: 11/19/2012 7:34 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


It almost looked like sabotage to me!! I in all my years watching football, on any level have i ever seen the starting qb pulled while YOUR team was up by two scores for a rookie that has never even took an nfl snap.. Man that guy needs to be investigated for gambling debts or somthing because that was just bizarre!!! If skeleton would have came out, threw a bunch of picks and we were getting monkey stomped then i would have said lets throw the rookie in but the dude had only thrown 7 passes and we were winning the game!!! Man ken threw that game and he couldnt have purposely done it better!!!
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Posted: 11/19/2012 8:37 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


I was in the wilderness when this game transpired so I didn't have the pleasure? to watch another ineptitude outing. What a waste of talent. Fitz, Washington, Campbell, Peterson, and more. Who the hell is going to want to sign with a continually losing franchise? Pathetic. Graves must be the first to go. Mike Miller soon after. Then I would give Whiz ONE more year.
John Motorcycle Cardinals
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  • tzo45
  • Veteran
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Posted: 11/19/2012 8:48 PM

RE: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Rod graves has stacked this team with talent.. I dont see the what else you would expect from the GM.. As far as keeping whuz another year and we lose horton to H.C job and still have whuz they will be that much worse next year.. Promote horton and lets go get a new o coordinator
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Posted: 11/19/2012 9:39 PM

RE: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


It was a desperation move.  To a certain degree, I understand it.  I was pissed when Skelton missed that wide open throw.  But yeah it was odd timing to say the least.

I have to agree that losing Horton next year would be a real shame.  I love Whiz and really appreciate all he has done for the Cards and the Valley, but I am finally starting to see why a change may be needed.  It has been the same problems for the past 3 years now.  I have mixed emotions about it though.

Some changes in the organization have to be made though at the end of the season.  We have not been the best with draft picks.  Remember Cody Brown, Buster Davis, Alan Branch, etc.  Talent evaluation and different coaching on Offense I think are a must.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 5:07 PM

RE: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


This ineptitude is really pissing me off. Know what's gonna happen? Players on the team who are not locked-up will become free agents and take their talents elsewhere. And it won't necessarily be about money. Smiles trump frowns. What a freaking disaster.
John Motorcycle Cardinals
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Posted: 11/20/2012 6:21 PM

RE: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 



tzo45 wrote: Rod graves has stacked this team with talent..
Ahem. We are on pace to far exceed sacks allowed by any team in history. Graves, Grimm, Whisenhunt are all culpable for this mess. Again, the two formers should be jettisoned and I would give KW one more year. You cannot complete passes when you are looking up at the moon on your back. So zo, talent on one side doesn't necessarily beget talent on the other side.
John Motorcycle Cardinals
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Posted: 11/20/2012 7:43 PM

RE: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Stacked with talent??? One guy on offense.....Four guys on D. Are we better off than we were three years ago? 183 pts on O only better than KC!! I would say in our division Seattle is better talent wise as is SF. St Louis is equal, but that being said they are going in the right direction...I have the answer to all our scouting issues... Lets go sign a bunch of FA's...Bradley, Gay, Heap, Snyder as that will put us over the top.
BE MORE CONCERNED WITH YOUR CHARACTER THAN YOUR REPUTATION. YOUR CHARACTER IS WHO YOU REALLY ARE, AND YOUR REPUTATION IS ONLY WHAT OTHERS THINK YOUR ARE.....
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  • Reddog7
  • Big Red Alumni
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Posted: 11/20/2012 8:08 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Let's look at it another way. We love Horton and the job he's done, correct? Even to the point that we are now concerned someone will snatch him up. With that said....if Whiz fulfills his last year, and he were to replace Miller and Grimm with two coaches who turnout to be as successful as Horton.......would any of you then feel different where Whiz is concerned? Just curious.
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Posted: 11/21/2012 10:45 AM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Yes, but here is what I don't get about the Whiz.

We had a Defense that had god-awful secondary and weak LB's during our SB run that we almost won.  Whiz fires Clancy the day after and hires Bill Davis.

We keep Bill on for 2 season after the drain of retirements, FA, trades, etc. and Whiz fires him.

Yet on Offense we have the same coordinator creating the same results for going on 3 years with different rosters, and all we hear is trust the process, we are leaving plays on the field.  My point is if Whiz thinks Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees hit all of the plays most of the time he's not dancing with reality.  

If our margin of error is only 2 or 3 offensive plays, then you're cutting it too close.  You either improve the roster or you re-evaluate your scheme which brings me to my next point.

THis Offense post-Warner is supposed to be built to run that is what the conservative play calling style we have had would suggest anyways.  Yet we have a LT that is better at run-blocking, we have a LG that is a pass protector but not known for run-blocking, we have a Center that can do neither well, we have a RG that we knew was horrible at pass pro, and a RT that coming out of college was better known for his run blocking.  

Yet we have many games where we pass 50+ plays with an inexperienced inaccurate QB or one that struggles with pressure and injury-prone.  We have RB's that aren't good at blitz protection.  We have a TE that is our best run blocker in the group running routes.  Our TE that is best at running routes staying back to block.  I take issue with the game planning.  Whiz is very involved in the Offensive game planning, so my response is Coach we have tried it your way for a few years now.  It isn't working.  You need to pick a Coordinator that has complete autonomy and focus on being a HC.
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:07 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Whiz refused to recommend Haley because haley wanted complete control over the offense without Whiz MEDDLING!!!
One thing that Haley does well is that he know how to adjust to his personell & he definitely know how to attack opposing defenses!!
Fire Whiz, make Horton HC, and hire an entirely new offensive staff , OC ,OLC, QBC & Rec C.

stlcardinal
Ç
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Posted: 11/21/2012 7:50 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


I don't know about that.  I think Whiz is too loyal to Miller.  He had a lot of success with Haley having total control and autonomy.  No reason he wouldn't let a trusted Haley have the reins again.  I think Whiz offered to bring Haley in as a positional coach for WR's or QB's.  

Obviously very beneath Haley, so he chose the Steelers whose O with Big Ben has looked very good.  Haley demands a certain level of play from his guys and challenges them everyday.  We haven't had that with Miller.  Finally Whiz demoted some guys to send a message that mistakes won't be tolerated.  

For the record, I still think Whiz is a great coach.  I have no doubt that if the Cards do part ways he will get picked up pretty fast.  I just think the handling of Miller and the rest of the Offense has been a total disaster the past 2 years.  I give him a free ride in 2010 because with all we lost as Cards fans we were crazy to not expect a severe letdown during the rebuilding.

I still believe in our Defense obviously.  I like our ST.  I think we have a great stable of RB's and am willing to give these guys a year to show they can be healthy and see what this great trio could do.  I like our WR's.  Our TE's are average.  I will not be surprised to learn that Jeff King has been playing with some injury all season - he seems off.

I like Kevin Kolb at QB and do not see any upcoming QB's in this draft of FA that will improve the team.  

We can however finally fix that dreadful O-line.  This is the draft to do it.  Loaded like I can't remember.  Maybe QB isn't solved, but we won't know 'til we got someone to block and give them a running game.  Kolb showed enough grit this year to give him more time.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:50 PM

Re: Can we please kick ken whisinhut to the curb already!!! 


Whiz has a head like a rock. He won't change any of his coaching staff because of his ego, and his so called scheme. The revamping of the coaching staff after this long would make him look bad. He is going down with the ship and alot of it is his conservatism and hard headedness. When is the last time we showed any creativity in the red zone? Yes, you're right, Haley was our offensive coordinator. You take away Larry Fitzgerald and we have one of the worst receiving corp in the NFC. Our o-line is the worst, (when was the last time you saw some attitude and toughness from these guys), our running backs have already been here for 2-3 years and can't stay healthy, kinda like our tight ends (old) and defensive backs.(other teams rejects) Have we gotten better "as a team" with more talent overall in the last 5 years? I say "No". Do I think we can win with the players we have now? I say "No". Not all must go (obviously there is some talent on the team, mostly on D), but the baggage needs some cleaning and the coaching staff and management should be a part of it. Look thru this lineup, be true and you'll know the players that need to be used as backups and who needs to go. We just aren't that talented of a team, yet .jmo

Last edited 11/22/2012 6:57 PM by duecer54

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