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Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma?

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Posted: 2/20/2013 7:21 AM

Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


I know what both players have meant to the organization, but in the case of both I just feel like their better days are behind them and now is the perfect time to move on and start planting the seeds for the new defense.

I will start by saying that at this present time I cannot get an acurate report about how much Smith and Vilma will count against the cap and I know that will make up a huge percentage of if they are restructured and brought back.

One report that I looked at said that Smith was owed 9.2 million and his cap number was 11.2 meaning even if he was cut we would take a 2 million dollar cap hit, but another said that the cap number was closer to 14.2 million and we would take a 5 million dollar cap hit.

Same with Vilma, both reports had 4.7 million for his salary but one had an extra 1.7 cap hit and the other had 4 million as a cap hit.

I think in both cases I could live with the lower number.  Just a straight release of both players and taking the extra 4 million off the cap.  The larger numbers would be harder to deal with and probably the reason why a restructure might be the only option.

Neither player can be a long term solution for this defense and both players are expensive.  Combined you are looking at 15 million for the two players.  In todays market that could get you two really good free agents or 3-4 role players to fit into this defense.

I still think this is the time to get younger and build depth on the defense.  Other teams have turned it around quickly going out and getting the right guys, not trying to plug in the guys that you already have. 

The other side of this is it is a business and I know that Loomis wants to be loyal to his guys, but he has done that.  Both players have been in New Olreans for years and the day will come when both have to say goodbye.  You always hope that it is the players decision, but it rarely is.  Loomis' decision to cut both players would also send a message that we are turning the corner and that we expect results from this defense and that last year was unacceptable.  You also send a message that nobody on that team or defense gets a free pass.

Saint Tiger

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Posted: 2/20/2013 12:25 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


I think Loomis and the Saint's loyalty is shown by the offer to restructure.  I understand that they were team leaders, but they were leaders of the worst defense in history!  This is not a fluke year either.  Aside from the Superbowl season, an average defense thanks to turnovers, our Vilma and Smith lead defense has been in the bottom half of almost all statistical categories.  That being said, give them a chance to stay, via restructured deal, or release them with a clear conscious!
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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:30 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


What if they just don't fit what you are trying to do.  I'm more convinced that Smith could play the DE in the 3-4 probably more than Vilma could play the ILB in the 3-4.

They were talking about the Saints today on the radio and they brought up Smith.  Gil Brandt said that Smith had a 9 million salary and a 1 million roster bonus so 10 million in salary for 2013.

He said he felt like that number should be closer to 5 million and that Loomis just needs to have that conversation.

We want you back.  And we want you back at this number.  5 million.
If you think that you can get more on the free agency market then..Go Ahead and get it.

Saint Tiger

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Posted: 2/20/2013 11:07 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


Filter:
player & transacation team & position date
1 Drew Brees at Quarterback $17,400,000
2 Will Smith at Defensive End $14,541,666
3 Jahri Evans at Guard $9,860,000
4 Jonathan Vilma at Linebacker $8,682,500
5 Sean Payton at Coach $7,500,000
6 Ben Grubbs at Guard $7,300,000
7 Roman Harper at Safety $7,100,000
8 Marques Colston at Wide Receiver $6,600,000
9 Jabari Greer at Cornerback $5,425,000
10 David Hawthorne at Linebacker $4,760,000
 photo linesjpg4he25wrcy8nx8-1.gif


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Posted: 2/20/2013 11:11 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


The post above shows the top cap hits for the Saints, but there's a ton of good info on that site.
Here's a link. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new...saints/cap-hit/
I set it for Saints info but you can research any team in the NFL.
 photo linesjpg4he25wrcy8nx8-1.gif


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Posted: 2/21/2013 4:02 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



tigerterrace wrote: What if they just don't fit what you are trying to do.  I'm more convinced that Smith could play the DE in the 3-4 probably more than Vilma could play the ILB in the 3-4.

They were talking about the Saints today on the radio and they brought up Smith.  Gil Brandt said that Smith had a 9 million salary and a 1 million roster bonus so 10 million in salary for 2013.

He said he felt like that number should be closer to 5 million and that Loomis just needs to have that conversation.

We want you back.  And we want you back at this number.  5 million.
If you think that you can get more on the free agency market then..Go Ahead and get it.

I suppose that this is how Loomis will try to handle the situation. Loomis will probably make him an offer and then hopefully Will will take it. I don't want us to lose him. He's been in NOLA since his rookie year. This might become another nerve wrecking off season. I'm always glad when it's over.


dd2f46d4-2f72-4b4c-bdd1-b4c4b062db9c_zps405f4d62.jpg

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Posted: 2/21/2013 4:21 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


I was waiting for your response because I know you have a hard time letting go of anyone.  Today so of the Times reporters were talking and said that Smith could fit into the scheme, but they didnt see Vilma fitting in at all.

Larry Holder even said that if you go back to the testimony given during "Bountygate" they asked Vitt about them bring Vilma to New Orleans from the Jets.  Holder's quote was that Vitt said one of the reasons we were able to get him was because he was so bad in the 3-4 defense.

Now the more I hear on the radio the more they keep saying that the alignment will be a 3-4 with a man underneath, so don't expect us to play the two gap technique that the Giants played under Parcells. 

Basically it sounds like while we will align in the 3-4 defense, we will often bring one of the OLBs down to the line creating a 4-3 front with the Other LBs being able to shift.

This allows us to bring either OLB down creating a 4 man front, bring both down to create a 5 man front.  Can stay in the 3 down especially on passing downs.

Saint Tiger

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Posted: 2/21/2013 4:39 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


We are in a bad salary cap situation this year.  I don't believe that the time is for restructuring and sacrificing future years money for this year.  Let it clean out and deal with it this year.  Then maybe next year our cap situation will be better. 

I don't believe there is any reason to keep a player that doesn't fit into your system.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 5:01 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



KatrinaLore wrote:
tigerterrace wrote: What if they just don't fit what you are trying to do.  I'm more convinced that Smith could play the DE in the 3-4 probably more than Vilma could play the ILB in the 3-4.

They were talking about the Saints today on the radio and they brought up Smith.  Gil Brandt said that Smith had a 9 million salary and a 1 million roster bonus so 10 million in salary for 2013.

He said he felt like that number should be closer to 5 million and that Loomis just needs to have that conversation.

We want you back.  And we want you back at this number.  5 million.
If you think that you can get more on the free agency market then..Go Ahead and get it.

I suppose that this is how Loomis will try to handle the situation. Loomis will probably make him an offer and then hopefully Will will take it. I don't want us to lose him. He's been in NOLA since his rookie year. This might become another nerve wrecking off season. I'm always glad when it's over.

I do hate the thought of losing Will and Vilma as well.frown However,i think both of them would be much happier playing for another team that has a 4 -3 system defense.

Last edited 2/21/2013 5:02 PM by LSUFAN44

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Posted: 2/21/2013 5:03 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



battleredtexan wrote: The post above shows the top cap hits for the Saints, but there's a ton of good info on that site.
Here's a link. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new...saints/cap-hit/
I set it for Saints info but you can research any team in the NFL.

Good stuff battle.Thanks....biggrin
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Posted: 2/21/2013 5:15 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



UMsaint wrote: I think Loomis and the Saint's loyalty is shown by the offer to restructure.  I understand that they were team leaders, but they were leaders of the worst defense in history!  This is not a fluke year either.  Aside from the Superbowl season, an average defense thanks to turnovers, our Vilma and Smith lead defense has been in the bottom half of almost all statistical categories.  That being said, give them a chance to stay, via restructured deal, or release them with a clear conscious!

Good point ! Agreed ! biggrin 

Loomis showed a lot of  "loyality" to Vilma and Will by not cutting them during/before the bounty's suspensions. Any other team surely would have let them walk a long time ago. They were so bless to playing for the Saints.Now it's time for Loomis to cut ties with the both of them.Loomis don't have to show anymore loyality to Will and Vilma anymore.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:26 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



KtoLV wrote: We are in a bad salary cap situation this year.  I don't believe that the time is for restructuring and sacrificing future years money for this year.  Let it clean out and deal with it this year.  Then maybe next year our cap situation will be better. 

I don't believe there is any reason to keep a player that doesn't fit into your system.

Jackpot ! Bingo !  Exactly ! How hard can it be for Loomis to cut ties with these highly paid players that doesn't fit in our new 3-4 system defense ? It's beneficial to both the Saints organization and those players who'll mostly excel in an 4 -3 system to just part ways, Saints get cheaper and talented young players who fit our new system and those players get more money and play in their 4-3 system by playing for another team....once again,how hard can it be for Loomis to just cut them ?  


bangheadbangheadbangheadbanghead

Last edited 2/21/2013 6:26 PM by LSUFAN44

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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:36 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


According to battle's link, Sean Payton has a  "cap hit "as well - 7,500,000).Loomis might ask Sean to restructure his contract as well.....biggrin
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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:50 PM

Re: 2013 NFL Top Cap Hit 


biggrin


2013 NFL Top Cap Hit


1. Tom Brady - $21,800,000

2.Eli Manning  - $20,850,000

3.Matthew Stafford  - $20,820,000

4.Peyton Manning - $20,000,000

5.Ben Roethlberger - $19,595,000

6.NdamuKong Suh  - $18,172,500

7.Tyson Jackson  - $17,470,000

8. Drew Brees   - $17,400,000

9.

10.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:50 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



LSUFAN44 wrote:
KtoLV wrote: We are in a bad salary cap situation this year.  I don't believe that the time is for restructuring and sacrificing future years money for this year.  Let it clean out and deal with it this year.  Then maybe next year our cap situation will be better. 

I don't believe there is any reason to keep a player that doesn't fit into your system.

Jackpot ! Bingo !  Exactly ! How hard can it be for Loomis to cut ties with these highly paid players that doesn't fit in our new 3-4 system defense ? It's beneficial to both the Saints organization and those players who'll mostly excel in an 4 -3 system to just part ways, Saints get cheaper and talented young players who fit our new system and those players get more money and play in their 4-3 system by playing for another team....once again,how hard can it be for Loomis to just cut them ?  


bangheadbangheadbangheadbanghead

That is why I said above that Smith could play the DE in the 3-4 scheme.  Also at times they will walk the OLB down so if they do it on the opposite side then Smith would be back in his 4-3 alignment. 

If you line up:

                Smith   Bunkley  Hicks

        Galette        Lofton    Vilma     Wilson

You walk Wilson up:

                       Smith    Bunkley   Hicks    Wilson
       
                 Galette              Lofton                Vilma

You walk Galette Up:

               Galette        Smith      Bunkley        Hicks

            Lofton                   Vilma                     Wilson

Now each alignment has advantages and will most likely be dictated by what the offense is showing and what side the TE lines up on.  Given the standard alignment of the 3-4 if the TE is on the Smith side then you may want to bring Galette up to chip the TE while giving Lofton the flat and Jenkins the midrange coverage.

Saint Tiger

Last edited 2/21/2013 7:03 PM by tigerterrace

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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:53 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


I could possibly see Smith as a 34 DE.  I don't see anywhere for Vilma to fit in though.  He's too small to be ILB and too slow for the outside.  There's no other place for him.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 7:28 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



KtoLV wrote: I could possibly see Smith as a 34 DE.  I don't see anywhere for Vilma to fit in though.  He's too small to be ILB and too slow for the outside.  There's no other place for him.

Will Smith could barely play in a 4-3, so how can he perform in a much complex 3-4 defense ?  Loomis can't afford to experiment with overpaided and underachieved players anymore. Please look at battleredtexan's link and post,Will Smith has an cap hit of $14,541,666.Remember, Saints are $16 millions over the salary cap, Loomis has to shave 16 million by March 12th when free agency begins. biggrin

Last edited 2/21/2013 7:29 PM by LSUFAN44

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Posted: 2/21/2013 7:36 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


If Will Smith accept an hugh pay cut then i could see Saints taking a chance on him in that lineup tiger.....biggrin

By the way,where's Cameron Jordan ?

**************************



That is why I said above that Smith could play the DE in the 3-4 scheme.  Also at times they will walk the OLB down so if they do it on the opposite side then Smith would be back in his 4-3 alignment. 


If you line up:

                Smith   Bunkley  Hicks

        Galette        Lofton    Vilma     Wilson

You walk Wilson up:

                       Smith    Bunkley   Hicks    Wilson
       
                 Galette              Lofton                Vilma

You walk Galette Up:

               Galette        Smith      Bunkley        Hicks

            Lofton                   Vilma                     Wilson

Now each alignment has advantages and will most likely be dictated by what the offense is showing and what side the TE lines up on.  Given the standard alignment of the 3-4 if the TE is on the Smith side then you may want to bring Galette up to chip the TE while giving Lofton the flat and Jenkins the midrange coverage.


Saint Tiger

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Posted: 2/21/2013 7:52 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 


I did not mean to say that he should start.  I think Jordan and Hicks are much better options.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 8:02 PM

Re: Is it wrong of me to want to release Smith and Vilma? 



KtoLV wrote: I did not mean to say that he should start.  I think Jordan and Hicks are much better options.

biggrin....even as a backup,you know Will Smith will demand starter's pay.It's will be much easier for Loomis to cut Smith now, so Will and his agent can quickly get on the telephone and get an hugh contract on another team that has a 4-3 defense system.I do agree with you though, Jordan and Hicks are better options at the DE's position....yes indeed.....

Last edited 2/21/2013 8:18 PM by LSUFAN44

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