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My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING...

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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:43 AM

My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


Here is a break-down of our last 4 drafts.....

2009-
2-Everette Brown- TOTAL BUST!!!!
2-Sherrod Martin-Played but simply never made the plays needed.
3-Corey Irvin- TOTAL BUST!!!!!
4- Mike Goodson- Pretty good player-maybe we should have kept him and not paid a fortune for 3 backs!!!
4- Tony Fiammetta- TOTAL BUST!!!! Why draft a FB in the 4th when there are plenty available after the Draft as a FA.
5- Duke Robinson- TOTAL BUST!!!
6-Captain Munnerlyn- Best pick in this draft.

4 out of 7 picks BUSTS!!!!

2010-
2-Jimmy Clausen- TOTAL BUST!!!!
3-Brandon Lafell- Really like the way he is playing!!!
3-Armanti Edwards-TOTAL BUST!!!!
4-Eric Norwood-TOTAL BUST!!!
6-Greg Hardy-The light came on this year. Best pick in this draft!
6-David Gettis- Will he return to form?  Will he get the chance?? Stiff iffy!
6-Tony Pike- TOTAL BUST!!
7-R.J. Stanford-TOTAL BUST!!!
7-Robert Mcclain-TOTAL BUST!!!

6 out of 9 picks BUSTS!!!!!

2011-
1-Cam Newton- Possibly best draft pick in Panther History!!!
3-Terrell Mcclain- TOTAL BUST!!!!
3-Sione Fua- TOTAL BUST....why is he still on roster???????
4-Brandon Hogan-TOTAL BUST!!!
5-Kealoha Pilares- Special Teams player...nothing more unless injury forces him into action.
6-Lawrence Wilson-TOTAL BUST!!!
7-Zach Williams- Jury still out...
7-Lee Zimba- Back up level pick.

4 out of 8 BUSTS....

2012-
1-Luke Kuechly- If not for Cam, best pick ever for Panthers!!!!
2- Amini Silatolu- Needs alot of improvement...good and bad but learning! Still Early.
4-Frank Alexander- I really think he is going to be our 3rd DE for  a long time. I really like this guy.
4-Joe Adams- Potential, but has to fix his fumbling problems.  This could potentialy be a BUST based on what we all thought he could be.
5-Josh Norman- Love his attitude.  I think he comes back with a vengance and regains his starting spot.  HAS SWAGGER!!!
6-Brad Nortman- Up and down but should be hare for a while.
7-D.J.Campbell-Is this another Munnerlyn pick?  Seems to be filling in well!!

Pretty good looking draft so far.


SO HERE IS THE BREAK-DOWN.  OUT OF 31 DRAFTED PLAYERS SINCE 2009, 14 HAVE BEEN TOTAL BUSTS.  IF YOU TAKE AWAY THIS YEAR, 14 OF 24 PICKS WERE BUSTS.

Now I know the draft is not an exact science, but without this years draft, we are only drafting at a 42% sucess rate.  That is one of the worst in the NFL.  If you are going to build your team through the draft, you can't afford to miss this bad.  The ironic thing is Hurney was fired(and deservingly so) after his best draft in years.  I know this team is not void of talent, but 4 of 5 "PLAYERS" do not make a football team.  We simply need better drafting and more select FA to fill needs that have been neglected for years.

So in closing, I think we would all agree that when Rivera took over, he had a mess!!!  The first year yielded Cam Newton and with his rookie numbers and the way our offense was playing, we just assumes our Defense would immediatly improve and our offense, which took people by surpsise, would just keep motoring.  The defense this year has gotten better, and Luke is finally in his natural position making plays.  The offense is coming around and playing much better.  Remeber that our schedule was not an easy one.  I say lets give Rivera, who BTW, is VERY WELL RESPECTED BY PLAYERS AND MANAGEMENT, another year of getting his players, adding talent, and see what he can do.  2 years is just not fair to Rivera given the mess he inherited.  This is just my 2 cents worth....feel free to fire away!

Last edited 12/28/2012 10:45 AM by Acelamar1

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Posted: 12/28/2012 10:29 AM

Re: My point abour our HORRIBE DRAFTING... 


Very insightful post. There is NO doubt our drafting has been horrific (outside of the 1st rd). Glad Hurney is gone. Not only did he like trading up, usually an awful idea, but I felt he was always trying to uncover a hidden gem. IE Armanti, Hogan, Martin. 

When it boils down to it, the best teams draft "football players." They don't draft a player because he ran a 4.3 or has unrealized potential because he missed a year due to injury. Good teams typically draft players who produce and do so with a winning attitude. Look at the steelers, patriots, 49ers. Their players are big, tough, and for the most part do not have egos. 

If I'm the panthers' new gm, I draft some mean interior lineman and a safety in this draft. We need some beef, and we need some gritty attitudes.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 10:39 AM

RE: My point abour our HORRIBE DRAFTING... 


YEA I've been saying this for at least 3 yrs now glad you guys see this now
Mike Tolbert runs hard #Panthers #Falcons #TruckStick #FootballSunday
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:00 AM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


I agree with much of what is said here.  I just thought I would add that Evan Mathis and Will Mountgomery are both Pro Bowlers.  One Pro Bowl Center and one at guard.  noidea
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:33 PM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 



Realguyjeff wrote: I agree with much of what is said here.  I just thought I would add that Evan Mathis and Will Mountgomery are both Pro Bowlers.  One Pro Bowl Center and one at guard.  noidea

I have forgotten about Mathis and Mountgomery. Why were both released by the Panthers?
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:48 PM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


Good god that is fugly chit, and also blowing valuable picks on the likes of Brown and Edwards, I have been telling you guys for years what a tool Hurney is ...on a side note, McClain is no bust...he has evolved into an outstanding NCB for us in our base defense, the guy is the next Brent Grimes, I see pro bowl in his future in a couple years, thank you very much .....excited


" The Cuervo Gold, the fine Colombian make tonight a wonderful thing - say it again "

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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:53 PM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 



CPFan1 wrote:
Realguyjeff wrote: I agree with much of what is said here.  I just thought I would add that Evan Mathis and Will Mountgomery are both Pro Bowlers.  One Pro Bowl Center and one at guard.  noidea

I have forgotten about Mathis and Mountgomery. Why were both released by the Panthers?
Because Fox's coaching staff was never very good at developing players.  If they drafted an B level player you may see marginal improvement.  However, when they have drafted C and D level guy they pretty much stayed there, or were ruined outright.  

Jovan Haye - turned in some decent seasons at DT a place we've suffered
Evan Mathis - Pro Bowler
Will Montgomery - Pro Bowler
Frank Omiyale - The Bears Trainers diagnosed him, treated him, and he was a solid starter

I don't think we've been terrible in that regard but we've missed some opportunities that could have really helped us.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:05 PM

RE: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


You can compile list like this for most teams. Look at all the first round picks that turn out to be busts.

The fact that we have Hardy, 6th round, playing at an elite level says a lot about the scouts and the GM. Captain has been a steal, too. Ask BigBirdy what the Falcons think of Robert McClain.

Calling any 3rd day pick a bust is just stupid, you rarely even expect them to make the roster, much less contribute. Go back and do a 3 year review of some of the top teams in the league and you'll see something that looks a lot (not "alot") like what you've listed above. Go ahead, give it a shot.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:07 PM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


WAIT WAIT WAIT...


How can you possibly consider ANY player drafted in rounds 5-7 to be a bust?? Those players are almost ALWAYS waived, cut, released, on the practice squad, or deep on the bench the majority of their careers.

It's rare that a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick pans out into a productive player. I think if you look at every other team's success with those rounds, you'll find similar situations.

Fact of the matter is that every year 90 new players enter the NFL in just the first 3 rounds alone. Maybe 30-40 players retire due to age/injury. That's 50 new players each year that deserve roster spots, and that's not even including rounds 4-7. It's a numbers game.

Let's do a comparison...the NE Pats, widely considered to be one of the best in the NFL at building through the draft. Let's look at how many players from their past 4 drafts are currently on their depth chart or living up to expecations vs the Panthers...

NE has drafted 40 players over 4 years. 21 of those players are currently on the depth chart. 9 are currently starting. So 22.5% of drafted players are starters. And just over 50% are on the team. Anyone want to take a guess as to how many of those 9 starters came from round 4 and later?  2. Aaron Hernandez and the punter Mesko. All the rest are 1st-3rd round picks. And there were also 6 players picked in rounds 1-3 that aren't on the team anymore. Busts, if you will.

So out of 40 players, 9 starters, 6 busts (rounds 1-3), 13 busts (rounds 4-7) and roughly 12 bench/mediocre players. So 19 busts out of 40 (47.5%) vs the Panthers at 14 busts out of 31 (45.1%). And as for starters, 9 out of 40 for the Pats vs 7-8 (depending on how you view Captain) out of 31 for the Panthers.

Truly, they are quite similar indeed.

Not to mention you'll find almost the same numbers across the board in the NFL. Ravens drafted 29 players in the same 4 year period. 7 are starters. 22 of those 29 are on the team currently; however, 15 of those 22 came from the past 2 seasons alone. The 2011 draft so far for Baltimore has proved to be one of the most efficient drafts in the history of drafting, as all players remain on the team. If you went back a bit further, you'd see the numbers begin to level out at around the same pace as above mentioned.

As bad as the Panthers have seemingly drafted, it really hasn't been that bad at all, from a starters standpoint.

Falcons fan: What worries me? That one day Cam will grow up and become a leader of men, focus on others instead of himself, and show courage.

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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:09 PM

RE: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


LOL JOAT. great minds and all that...

Falcons fan: What worries me? That one day Cam will grow up and become a leader of men, focus on others instead of himself, and show courage.

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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:20 PM

RE: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


Oh and by the way...for the Falcons (so Birdy has a frame of reference)...

27 players drafted in the same 4 years. 7 starters. 19 still on the team though, so not too bad.

But, the only starter taken after round 3 is a punter. So it's truly similar across the board.

Falcons fan: What worries me? That one day Cam will grow up and become a leader of men, focus on others instead of himself, and show courage.

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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:08 PM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 



CPFan1 wrote:
Realguyjeff wrote: I agree with much of what is said here.  I just thought I would add that Evan Mathis and Will Mountgomery are both Pro Bowlers.  One Pro Bowl Center and one at guard.  noidea

I have forgotten about Mathis and Mountgomery. Why were both released by the Panthers?
From Evan Mathis Him self :http://prointerviews.org/2012/01/09/evanmathis/

Strauss : Can you take me through your journey in the NFL…

Mathis : My rookie year was 2005 and I didn’t get much playing time beyond Special Teams, and it was somewhat frustrating as I had much higher expectations.  In 2006, I started 15 games at right guard, and played well, and was looking forward to progressing my career from there.  The next year, our offensive coordinator and offensive line coach were fired.  Their replacements were fond of larger guards and I had always been on the small end at 300 pounds. I ended up buried on the depth chart and was even moved to tackle. I was totally irrelevant for the 2007 season, and I was absolutely miserable.  I used the next offseason to bulk up to 320 to try and play the part. It didn’t really matter because I was merely a camp body in 2008. I have yet to figure out why the Panthers never gave me a chance again.  

After training camp in 2008, they cut me, I was picked up by the Dolphins before the 2nd game of the season and started sharing time with their right guard.  I was released from there during the 10th week of the season and picked up by the Bengals two weeks later.  

I didn’t play beyond Special Teams for the rest of that season for yet another meaningless year.  I stayed relentless and came into Bengals camp lean and mean in 2009.  After a solid camp, I was the backup at all three, interior positions and chomping at the bit to get a chance to play.  During the 2nd quarter of the first game, our left guard sprained his MCL and I got my chance.  I proceeded to start seven games that year and played lights out.  During the seventh start, I suffered a high ankle sprain and ended up missing the next three games. When I returned, I played the second and fourth quarters of the remaining games. I didn’t like splitting time because it was tough to stay warm and get in the zone.  The next year, I missed mini-camp and the first week of training camp with a torn calf.  When the season started, I was again the backup at the interior three positions.  2010 was a waste as I only saw the field for about 100 snaps.

Staying hungry and relentless, I trained my ass off for almost seven straight months under the guidance of my staff at Zone Athletic Performance in preparation for the 2011 season.  I got into camp with the Eagles and earned the starting job before the season opener.  Just now, in my seventh year, I feel like my career has started.

Mike Tolbert runs hard #Panthers #Falcons #TruckStick #FootballSunday
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:26 PM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 



CPFan1 wrote:
Realguyjeff wrote: I agree with much of what is said here.  I just thought I would add that Evan Mathis and Will Mountgomery are both Pro Bowlers.  One Pro Bowl Center and one at guard.  noidea

I have forgotten about Mathis and Mountgomery. Why were both released by the Panthers?
I beleive Will M. was cut in sept.2007 Because we had to Much depth at the time 
check out the 2006 draft & remember this was also the time Hurney overpaid FA Center Justin Hartwig come 2007 we draft Kalil so come sept 2007 Someone had to go 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Carolina_Panther s_season 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Carolina_Panther s_season
Mike Tolbert runs hard #Panthers #Falcons #TruckStick #FootballSunday
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Posted: 12/29/2012 1:06 AM

Re: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


With Mathis and Montgomery it was just like I said, a matter of poor evaluation and development by the COACHING STAFF.  The GM's job is to get you guys who have the right mix of talent and skill.  It is the job of the coaching staff to further asses talent from a schematic standpoint, and help further develop skill.  We didn't do that.  Here the kicker.  If you see one roach you're a fool to think that's the only one you've got.  Imagine who else we might have ruined with poor coaching and development. 

Dwayne Jarrett
Duke Robinson
Jimmy Clausen
Gary Barnidge
Dante Rosario
Robert McClain
Rashad Anderson (no business at CB)

I know many of these guys were never destined to be great NFL players but then you have to wonder if they were in a better situation would they have at least contributed.  

The obvious question is why these guys didn't make it elsewhere if they are better than advertised.  Well, you know how some foods you can reheat in the microwave and some you just can't, because they just don't come out the same.  The same is true with NFL careers ask David Carr.  Some guys can get a change of scenery and excel but some just cannot shake a bad start.
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Posted: 12/29/2012 10:33 AM

RE: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 


Robert McClain is playing well in Atlanta.

Dwuane Jarrett has more DUI's than TD's.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 12/29/2012 10:38 AM

RE: My point about our HORRIBLE DRAFTING... 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: Robert McClain is playing well in Atlanta.

Dwuane Jarrett has more DUI's than TD's.
"An Idle mind is the devils workshop"

If you ever want to see a kid screw his life up give him a million bucks and absolutely no purpose or respect.  I know he messed up but I just wonder what would have happened if we had stronger leadership and direction.
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