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Coach Debacle

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Posted: 12/8/2012 1:14 PM

Coach Debacle 


I really hope Coach Rivera gets atleast one more year, I know it's hard to say but I think that this team really needs consistency. Here's my theory, Hall of Fame Coach Jimmie Johnson record with the Cowboys the first year was 1-15 the next year he was 7-9. He really didn't hit his stride until the third year where they went 11-5. Will see what happens the rest of the year plus having a new GM never bodes well for the current HC. I honestly think if we can finish 7-9 or 6-10 he should keep his job for atleast another year. Plus if we get another DCord i think that could do wonders for this team. I understand that there are plenty of personal moves to be made but i also know we have a strong group of core talent to build around.
I BELIEVE IN JR AND COACH RIVERA, I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THE CAROLINA PANTHERS FRANCHISE!  CAROLINA PANTHER PSL OWNER!!!!!!!
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:03 PM

Re: Coach Debacle 



UNCPEP9023 wrote:  7-9 or 6-10 he should keep his job for atleast another year.

that would mean going 4-0 or 3-1,and that isnt going to happen,we just gave a 1-8 team there 2nd win,frankly 4-12 would be a miracle at this point!!!

Rivera is gone!!,JR doesnt fire HC's mid season, he will release him and most of his crew,and let the new GM pick our next HC this off-season
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:15 PM

Re: Coach Debacle 


No faith.
I BELIEVE IN JR AND COACH RIVERA, I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THE CAROLINA PANTHERS FRANCHISE!  CAROLINA PANTHER PSL OWNER!!!!!!!
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Posted: 12/8/2012 4:22 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 


As much as I question Rivera I'm just as skeptical that a new coaching staff could also set us back. I mean yes we only have 3 wins, but every single one of our losses(save Giants) came down to the last minutes or 7 points or less. They've all come down to a handful of plays. Plays determined by bad calls, undisciplined players, the refs cheating us out of the game, or sheer bad luck and there is no doubt that we are an unlucky team. Although you could say coaching lost us those games it may also be a reason we kept them so close.

The only thing that is not forgivable the performance of the offense. Chud royally screwed up and he's going to have really show us something if he wants to keep his job. The defense has been pretty good considering injuries and depth issues. I still hate Rivera's time management and lack of killer instinct.

Last edited 12/8/2012 4:23 PM by OneBadassCat

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Posted: 12/8/2012 5:04 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 



OneBadassCat wrote: As much as I question Rivera I'm just as skeptical that a new coaching staff could also set us back. I mean yes we only have 3 wins, but every single one of our losses(save Giants) came down to the last minutes or 7 points or less. They've all come down to a handful of plays. Plays determined by bad calls, undisciplined players, the refs cheating us out of the game, or sheer bad luck and there is no doubt that we are an unlucky team. Although you could say coaching lost us those games it may also be a reason we kept them so close.

The only thing that is not forgivable the performance of the offense. Chud royally screwed up and he's going to have really show us something if he wants to keep his job. The defense has been pretty good considering injuries and depth issues. I still hate Rivera's time management and lack of killer instinct.
Taking your overall assessment of Rivera, that is like re-electing a guy who has record unemployment numbers, housing prices in the gutter, international events going haywire...you are right, let him stay on board.

Seriously, there is not one guy out there, I'd give an A rating for anyway...at least likely to be available in 2013. I also believe that JR wishes Rivera to do well. Rivera is a franchise coach, and while I have been skeptical, I also believe it is more the AC's  at this point. We'll have a new GM, and it could be that we'd do better to see if he and Rivera can work it out...if not, depart.

I hope we can see a flurry of attitude adjustments and personnel adjustments in OS...because we have only 2013 to make anymore excuses for ANYONE!
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Posted: 12/8/2012 11:17 PM

Re: Coach Debacle 



UNCPEP9023 wrote: I really hope Coach Rivera gets atleast one more year, I know it's hard to say but I think that this team really needs consistency. Here's my theory, Hall of Fame Coach Jimmie Johnson record with the Cowboys the first year was 1-15 the next year he was 7-9. He really didn't hit his stride until the third year where they went 11-5. Will see what happens the rest of the year plus having a new GM never bodes well for the current HC. I honestly think if we can finish 7-9 or 6-10 he should keep his job for atleast another year. Plus if we get another DCord i think that could do wonders for this team. I understand that there are plenty of personal moves to be made but i also know we have a strong group of core talent to build around.


I wish everyone would quit saying things like "we have talent" or "we have a core group of strong talent" ....We have minimal talent...MINIMAL...Outside of our QB and a RB, and a couple LBs, we literally have zero talent!
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Posted: 12/8/2012 11:28 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 


I agree we don't have a lot of talent, or at least a lot of holes, but still imo the coaching hasn't been any better. There have been lots of games that I feel like we lost because of coaching, so you can't say our record is what it is despite being well coached.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 2:36 AM

RE: Coach Debacle 


We have plenty of talent and tomorrow I'll go into detail.

Outside of a few spots, we're good enough to win.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 12/9/2012 8:12 AM

RE: Coach Debacle 


our best players are old, and our young players are average at best.  not good.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 10:14 AM

Re: Coach Debacle 


Rivera Lets his OC & DC run things till they screw up & than he gives them another chance 

Rivera was my Pick & I'm admit that up front but I do believe there will be better options available for HC & DC & OC Now 
Rivera may be a better coach with a different OC or/& DC but if your Jerry R do you take that chance ?
Either way we will do thru a change on Offence  because Chud's system doesn't work & our Cap Money is at RB so I don't see how we can  Not afford to go back to a run 1st system
Mike Tolbert runs hard #Panthers #Falcons #TruckStick #FootballSunday
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Posted: 12/9/2012 11:03 AM

RE: Coach Debacle 


this team is too up and down (and mainly just down). not just from week to week, but from series to series. that's usually a sign of bad coaching and leadership issues. i don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell rivera is wearing a panthers headset next season.

point to one thing that would give you confidence that rivera can turn this thing around in the offseason? bring in a GM, with no ties to carolina/rivera, and i just don't see how he stays. rivera's a good guy, but he just isn't the right fit here and he frankly wasn't given a whole lot to work with.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:42 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: We have plenty of talent and tomorrow I'll go into detail.

Outside of a few spots, we're good enough to win.
The Panthers have talent....where?

The O-line is a mess. Losing Kalil definitely hurt. Gross will turn 33 next season. The rest are maginal. 

Defensive backs...Gamble turns 30 in 2013...who else in that secondary has any real talent...no one

Wide receivers...Steve Smith turns 34 before next season starts...there isn't a legitimate #2 WR in the rest. Lafell and Murphy would be 3rd WR's on most teams...

D-line...Johnson and Hardy are good DE's...there are no good DT's...

The Panthers have good LB's, good RB's and Newton...and he still has maturity issues....

This team needs a real infusion of talent...
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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:55 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 



bartman42 wrote:
Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: We have plenty of talent and tomorrow I'll go into detail.

Outside of a few spots, we're good enough to win.
The Panthers have talent....where?

The O-line is a mess. Losing Kalil definitely hurt. Gross will turn 33 next season. The rest are maginal. 

Defensive backs...Gamble turns 30 in 2013...who else in that secondary has any real talent...no one

Wide receivers...Steve Smith turns 34 before next season starts...there isn't a legitimate #2 WR in the rest. Lafell and Murphy would be 3rd WR's on most teams...

D-line...Johnson and Hardy are good DE's...there are no good DT's...

The Panthers have good LB's, good RB's and Newton...and he still has maturity issues....

This team needs a real infusion of talent...
yea & Can good coaching help a team low on talent
Mike Tolbert runs hard #Panthers #Falcons #TruckStick #FootballSunday
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Posted: 12/9/2012 6:02 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 


Funny, both Howie Long and Charles Davis said we had a ton of talent today on air, so I'm not alone in my thoughts.

QB, RB, FB, LB, DE aren't debatable, IMO. All of those are slap full of talent.

OL- Kalil is an All Pro and a top 3 Center in the NFL, Silatolu is a rookie who has plenty of talent but has to make a big jump coming from community college to the NFL. Gross is an above avg LT at a position where longevity is the norm. Bell has been very good, he was a penalty machine last season but has been our most consistent OL this year and he's still learning the outside. Hangartner is our only real weak spot on OL. I've been saying for a while that RG was a need.

WR- LaFell is playing very well and his numbers have improved every year. He has good size, speed and route running. He's an excellent blocker and his hands have gotten much better. Gettis was better than LaFell last time they played together and it wasn't close. If he can regain confidence then he should pick up right where he left off, but in an offense that better fits his skill set. I see a lot of Steve Smith in Joe Adams, I'd like to see more of him in this lost season. Murphy is ok, looks like another Drew Carter. Pilares could be a decent 4th/5th.

TE- Olsen is one of the best in the league, I think Barnidge could be as well if given the chance.

DT- D Edwards is second in the NFC in sacks and regularly commanded double teams, I guess that takes no talent. Neblett has shown some skill and Kearse as done the same in limited action. This is our biggest need, IMO.

CB- If you don't think Josh Norman has a boat load of talent you either don't know what you're watching, or you aren't watching. Josh Thomas has played very well and pretty well just shut Julio Jones down. James Dockery looked very good today too. Gamble is a very good cover CB and hasn't taken a lot of big hits, I could easily see him lasting another 3-4 seasons. His salary and durability may do him in though.

Safety- Godfrey is better at SS than FS, if they'd leave him there he'll only get better. Sharrod Martin was playing the best he ever has before he went to the IR and is a very good athlete. FS- DJ Campbell played well today as did ST ace Colin Jones. However, FS is a huge need.

This team needs a few pieces (DT, RG, FS) and better coaching.

My dream offseason has us drafting Star or Hankins in the first, top OG or WR in the second and then signing Jarius Byrd or Deshawn Gholston at FS in the offseason.

You don't play as well as we have this season in the first 55 minutes of all but two games without having a good bit of talent. If we could close, which is on coaching too, then we'd be in the thick of the playoff hunt and these conversations wouldn't be taking place.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:09 AM

RE: Coach Debacle 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: Funny, both Howie Long and Charles Davis said we had a ton of talent today on air, so I'm not alone in my thoughts.

QB, RB, FB, LB, DE aren't debatable, IMO. All of those are slap full of talent.

OL- Kalil is an All Pro and a top 3 Center in the NFL, Silatolu is a rookie who has plenty of talent but has to make a big jump coming from community college to the NFL. Gross is an above avg LT at a position where longevity is the norm. Bell has been very good, he was a penalty machine last season but has been our most consistent OL this year and he's still learning the outside. Hangartner is our only real weak spot on OL. I've been saying for a while that RG was a need.

WR- LaFell is playing very well and his numbers have improved every year. He has good size, speed and route running. He's an excellent blocker and his hands have gotten much better. Gettis was better than LaFell last time they played together and it wasn't close. If he can regain confidence then he should pick up right where he left off, but in an offense that better fits his skill set. I see a lot of Steve Smith in Joe Adams, I'd like to see more of him in this lost season. Murphy is ok, looks like another Drew Carter. Pilares could be a decent 4th/5th.

TE- Olsen is one of the best in the league, I think Barnidge could be as well if given the chance.

DT- D Edwards is second in the NFC in sacks and regularly commanded double teams, I guess that takes no talent. Neblett has shown some skill and Kearse as done the same in limited action. This is our biggest need, IMO.

CB- If you don't think Josh Norman has a boat load of talent you either don't know what you're watching, or you aren't watching. Josh Thomas has played very well and pretty well just shut Julio Jones down. James Dockery looked very good today too. Gamble is a very good cover CB and hasn't taken a lot of big hits, I could easily see him lasting another 3-4 seasons. His salary and durability may do him in though.

Safety- Godfrey is better at SS than FS, if they'd leave him there he'll only get better. Sharrod Martin was playing the best he ever has before he went to the IR and is a very good athlete. FS- DJ Campbell played well today as did ST ace Colin Jones. However, FS is a huge need.

This team needs a few pieces (DT, RG, FS) and better coaching.

My dream offseason has us drafting Star or Hankins in the first, top OG or WR in the second and then signing Jarius Byrd or Deshawn Gholston at FS in the offseason.

You don't play as well as we have this season in the first 55 minutes of all but two games without having a good bit of talent. If we could close, which is on coaching too, then we'd be in the thick of the playoff hunt and these conversations wouldn't be taking place.
98% correct and the 2% delta is only because you didn't mention ST.  An area where we need help.  I'd like to see us pick up a strong legged, accurate kicker in the draft too.  Kasey 2.0.  Someone that'll be around for the next 18-20 years.  I'm nervous EVERY time we attempt a FG and it's been that way for the last 2 years.  Think about how many SuperBowl winning franchises have had inconsistent kickers....  Now think of the winners that had very accurate, consistent kickers....  A solid kicker will typically win/solidify a win 2-3 times per season (8+ wins).  In the playoffs, an accurate kicker is a MUST HAVE to make a run at the title. 

Time to correct that VERY IMPORTANT aspect of our team.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:13 AM

RE: Coach Debacle 


If we win out the season I think Rivera should stay. But I want decisive wins like the one we just had.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:34 AM

Re: Coach Debacle 


during last off season we spent heavy into special teams. I've seen some improvement  especially after letting the ST coach go
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:37 AM

Re: Coach Debacle 



CANAPANTHERFAN wrote: during last off season we spent heavy into special teams. I've seen some improvement  especially after letting the ST coach go

I agree that we've improved, but IMO we have more work to be done on ST.

What's your opinion on Gano?  Medlock?  Mare?  Are you/were you ever confident in any of them?
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:33 PM

Re: Coach Debacle 



braves104life wrote:
UNCPEP9023 wrote: I really hope Coach Rivera gets atleast one more year, I know it's hard to say but I think that this team really needs consistency. Here's my theory, Hall of Fame Coach Jimmie Johnson record with the Cowboys the first year was 1-15 the next year he was 7-9. He really didn't hit his stride until the third year where they went 11-5. Will see what happens the rest of the year plus having a new GM never bodes well for the current HC. I honestly think if we can finish 7-9 or 6-10 he should keep his job for atleast another year. Plus if we get another DCord i think that could do wonders for this team. I understand that there are plenty of personal moves to be made but i also know we have a strong group of core talent to build around.


I wish everyone would quit saying things like "we have talent" or "we have a core group of strong talent" ....We have minimal talent...MINIMAL...Outside of our QB and a RB, and a couple LBs, we literally have zero talent!
Monday morning QB'er here....seeing what took place yesterday, one wonders where these guys were in the beginning. The "step up" ability of this team has fascinated me for years...we get serious IR's and POP's and our reserves (PS and BU) come in ands do stellar jobs. Austin was but one example yesterday, despite his short appearance. I do not mean to take away from the topic already here about the secondary, but look at Tolbert too, Williams might be sweating just a bit.

Last edited 12/10/2012 3:35 PM by gmonet

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Posted: 12/10/2012 8:10 PM

RE: Coach Debacle 


I still say we need a Lead blocking FB Tolbert is a Power Run RB who can block & & catch but he's no Lead blocker
Mike Tolbert runs hard #Panthers #Falcons #TruckStick #FootballSunday
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