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Best value with pick

Posted: 11/12/2012 9:39 AM

Best value with pick 


We will be in top 10 even if we finish 8-8 which is not likely.  I hope we do, but I just want to see progress.  We were never in games with Clausen we in games now...

I don't see u having the #1 pick or #2.  So IMO, QB jumps up Redskins type  crazy trades are most likely out.  But you never know.....

Reality we have a 4-8 pick....   DT and Oline are pretty deep this year in to 40-50 picks.    Crazy trade trade back options are out of he question..  unless a Safety starts to stand out as a top 8 pick, we should entertain all options of trading back to mid first round.  Objective, extra high 2nd rd pick...  Even better extra late first or next years first and a late 2nd.  

DT/Oline:
mid first- think of a OG Warmack (Bama) or Johnathan Jenkins (Georgia)

Late first/early second- DT Jesse Williams (Bama) or Oline flexman Barret Jones (Bama)

S/CB (Capt FA next year): 
Early second-  S-TJ Mcdonald/Elam or CBs-David Amerson/Xavier Rhodes

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Posted: 11/12/2012 11:35 AM

RE: Best value with pick 


Te'o is my pick, all the way.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:50 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


Agreed, a trade back is probably the best option especially considering we don't have a 3rd round pick
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:43 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


My dream scenario would be to draft Star, then top WR in the second, sigh Jarius Byrd from Buffalo to take the FS spot and get a solid RG in FA.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 11/13/2012 5:19 PM

Re: Best value with pick 


I'm not convinced that we necessarily look for value this year. It all depends on who is there and what our needs are. We need another big time player on this team. Whether that's a WR or a CB/DT, we need someone that is going to make instant impact. I would honestly love to see them bring in a big time WR to help Cam. Along with that, I think it's time for Smitty to move on. Not saying that will happen, but it's obvious the pressure he puts on Cam to get him the ball. I want to have young hungry WR's that knows they need Cam just like he needs them to make plays and win football games. I love Smitty, but I don't think he fits on the team we are trying to develop starting next season. Just my opinion.

 But as JOAT said, we need to hit the FA market this season for some mid to top tier players on defense. Safety is a huge need as is CB. Either or both could be helped out tremendously through free agency. I would also like to see some additions to the Oline in FA as well as the draft. It's time to start rebuilding the line and it needs to start now.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:50 PM

RE: Best value with pick 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: Te'o is my pick, all the way.
we need a Star.
The Power of Life and Death are in the Tongue.

"we are heading in the direction of a National Championship"   Butch Davis  April 14,2007    
 - To be continued. Larry Fedora  12/09/2011
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Posted: 11/14/2012 6:39 AM

RE: Best value with pick 


No, Te'o, switch to 34 and dominate.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 11/14/2012 9:49 AM

RE: Best value with pick 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: No, Te'o, switch to 34 and dominate.
Jarvis Jones would work in that capacity as well, probably better than Te'o in fact.  Jarvis Jones looks more like a Von Miller and Te'o right now looks like a maybe slightly more athletic Kuechly.  

I would be happy with Jarvis Jones, Manti Te'o, Star, or a trade down if somehow we end up with the second pick which is very possible.

Last edited 11/14/2012 4:47 PM by Realguyjeff

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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:17 AM

RE: Best value with pick 


I was kidding, but personnel wise we're not that far off from having a 34 so if we went that way it wouldn't take a complete overhaul of the D. If that was the case then Jones would be perfect.

As of right now I'm on the Star or Hankins bandwagon. We'll be top 5 which is too high for OG and I don't see an immediate need at OT, but I'm going to go back and rewatch Gross here soon so that may change.

Biggest needs for me are DT, RG, WR or maybe TE as long as they're legit playmakers.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 11/14/2012 12:25 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


Wide receiver. Free agency or draft. When Smith plays against a quality safety, he can't get open (see Champ Bailey). There were times Newton had time to throw the ball, but noone could get open. It's time to either test some of these rookies, or look elsewhere.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 1:25 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


Smith was open several times and it was either overthrown or not thrown at all. There are only a couple CB's that can shut him down one on one. If the TE from ND slips to the second I wouldn't hesitate to jump on him, that kid is going to be good.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:08 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


I want someone with breakaway speed, and Smith just doesn't have that anymore. They need to try some of the young receivers and see what we have. I never thought I would say this< but I think Armanti is even getting better.

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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:23 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


I'm not convinced the Panthers need CB help. Norman and Thomas are both doing pretty well IMO and with Gamble back next season, and Captain in the Nickel where he belongs, they would form a nice rotation. Didn't think I'd be able to say that, but hey Thomas and Norman are holding it down from what I can see.

Godfrey is still getting the job done too. We need an upgrade to Martin/Natguncatcha, and if that comes in the form of Byrd from Buffalo, I'd be thrilled beyond belief. Which is why I don't believe it will happen. 1- we don't have the money for him, right? 2- why would he come here?

I also don't think we end up top 10 if we go 8-8. That means 20 other teams go 9-7 or better? Only 12 make the playoffs and we will see a few 9-7 teams in the playoffs this season.

My guess is 6-10 gets us a top 10 pick. 8-8 gets us 12-15 range. If we end up winning only 4 games like I think might happen, then I can see top 5. Or if we lose out, we'll be 1 or 2.

If we end up top 5, I want a big name DT who can take this D to the next level. We've got the LB's, CB's, and at least 1 good Safety. We have 2 DE's who seem to be getting it done, and a DT who's not too shabby. But if we had one more playmaker at DT to solidify that lineup and be a game-changer, our D could potentially be in the top 10 in the NFL. Especially if we sign a truly good Safety to replace Martin.

If we're not top 5 and the 2 good DT's don't fall to us, then we should go best OL available that isn't a reach, or go with a WR.

Get Cam the protection he needs and/or a playmaker who can get open consistently, and watch the offense shine.

Get a DT to solidify the defense at the LOS and a FS to fix the holes, and we will be well on the way to the playoffs.

Of course this is all assuming we get a competent head coach in here as well.

I'm on the John Gruden/Bill Cowher hunt. I like both of them a lot and think they bring the right kind of attitude to a football team.

Falcons fan: What worries me? That one day Cam will grow up and become a leader of men, focus on others instead of himself, and show courage.

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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:57 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


Stiffler, I like your analysis. 

However I trade down if possible. We have a lot of holes and no third round pick. We need help at DT, OG, OT, S, WR. These issues cannot be solved in two picks (rounds 4-6 are basically a roll of the dice). 

I'm guessing we'll end up with the fifth pick (purely a guess). Some team may want Barkley or a stud OLB and want to trade up. We can get multiple picks in the first three rounds and truly help our team out.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 4:54 PM

RE: Best value with pick 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote:

I was kidding, but personnel wise we're not that far off from having a 34 so if we went that way it wouldn't take a complete overhaul of the D.
If that was the case then Jones would be perfect.

As of right now I'm on the Star or Hankins bandwagon. We'll be top 5 which is too high for OG and I don't see an immediate need at OT, but I'm going to go back and rewatch Gross here soon so that may change.

Biggest needs for me are DT, RG, WR or maybe TE as long as they're legit playmakers.
As much as we have thrown the 3-4 defense out there in the past as a solution to our defensive problems, its a realistic possibility that it will happen.  used to be a handful of teams that ran the 3-4 now we're inching closer and closer to a 50/50 split.  If you count New England I think there are like 14 or 15 teams maybe that run it?  If we end up with a coach from one of those teams then hey it may happen.  This is especially true when you throw in personnel.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 4:56 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


New England actually uses the 43 more.

I don't care what front we use as long as it works. As well as the D is playing right now it wouldn't make much sense to change it.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

Galileo
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Posted: 11/14/2012 6:05 PM

RE: Best value with pick 


You guys are crazy to think we should
1) trade down
2) Not pick a WR first over all.

Here is the reason why

1) Say we get the 1st of 2nd over all pick I would not let anyone trade up unless they offered something like what StLouis got from Washington. 2-1st round picks/2nd of current draft. I would never let a team just switch spots and give us a 2nd in this years draft that is retarded thinking for a top 2 pick.

2) I don't care what you guys think of Steve Smith,, he is old and I think he maybe be the problem Cam is struggling. Look, we have a top 5 pick we take a WR NO MATTER WHAT. If there is a WR of the same calibur as Julio Jones/AJ Green we take him no matter what. Look at what those 2 guys have done for their franchisees. Look you Chud thinking fans. If we can't score points then it doesn't matter how much we sack or tackle the other guys, we are not going too win games.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 6:30 PM

RE: Best value with pick 



Jackofalltrades1977 wrote: New England actually uses the 43 more.

I don't care what front we use as long as it works. As well as the D is playing right now it wouldn't make much sense to change it.
Right, and their personnel is a better match for the 4-3 now.  Just saying there's a chance that if we get a coach from a team like that then switching to a 3-4 is a real possibility.   I like a 43 better.  I personally think its the better defense, but I would gladly take a top 5 defense even if it was a 46 base.
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Posted: 11/15/2012 12:24 AM

RE: Best value with pick 



Spartycus wrote: You guys are crazy to think we should
1) trade down
2) Not pick a WR first over all.

Here is the reason why

1) Say we get the 1st of 2nd over all pick I would not let anyone trade up unless they offered something like what StLouis got from Washington. 2-1st round picks/2nd of current draft. I would never let a team just switch spots and give us a 2nd in this years draft that is retarded thinking for a top 2 pick.

2) I don't care what you guys think of Steve Smith,, he is old and I think he maybe be the problem Cam is struggling. Look, we have a top 5 pick we take a WR NO MATTER WHAT. If there is a WR of the same calibur as Julio Jones/AJ Green we take him no matter what. Look at what those 2 guys have done for their franchisees. Look you Chud thinking fans. If we can't score points then it doesn't matter how much we sack or tackle the other guys, we are not going too win games.
sorry but there are no wr's  worth a top 5 pick so we would have to trade down.
The Power of Life and Death are in the Tongue.

"we are heading in the direction of a National Championship"   Butch Davis  April 14,2007    
 - To be continued. Larry Fedora  12/09/2011
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Posted: 11/15/2012 1:01 AM

Re: Best value with pick 


At the moment...depending on where we're at now...this is our priority

Star
Amerson
Reed

Defense better be the pick, period.
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