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WR: Who Stays, Who Goes?

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Posted: 5/9/2012 3:30 PM

WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


With Jabar Gaffney back, which wideouts will make the final roster cut?

Deion Branch, 32 
Britt Davis, 26 
Jeremy Ebert, 23 
Julian Edelman, 25 
Jabar Gaffney, 31 
Anthony Gonzalez, 27 
Brandon Lloyd, 30  
Chad Ochocinco, 34
Matthew Slater, 26 
Donte' Stallworth, 31 
Wes Welker, 31 

Reserve/Military:
Shun White, 26

MORE: Patriots News -- FaceB -- Twitter: @PatriotsInsider

Last edited 5/9/2012 7:58 PM by JSinCT

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Posted: 5/9/2012 8:02 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Virtual certainty 2 of those vets don't make it, and at least 3 of the young guys. Those with Practice Squad eligibility may get a chance to stick there.

Going by contract numbers, the guy with the most to lose is Welker, then Chad.
The guy(s) with the least: White won't be eligible for a while (safe), Davis and Ebert could stick on PS.


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Posted: 5/9/2012 9:12 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Don't forget that Chad re-did his deal, he's playing for cheap this year. And that will affect the "value" equation.

Slater is ST, anything he does as a WR is a bonus (and often scary to watch).

I expect Ebert to land on the PS with all those vets ahead of him. No idea who Davis is.

The more we talk about it the more I think Welker could be on the bubble after all. If Ocho and Stallworth and Gaffney make the club and they cut Welker it'll be the "WTF?" story of the pre-season.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 7:57 AM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


"The more we talk about it the more I think Welker could be on the bubble after all."
.
Hate to agree, - but the longer this contract problem drags on, - the more it looks that way.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 1:32 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I could see a scenario where Welker signs his tender and then is dealt for a ham sandwich.
It is the NFL...Not a knitting class.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 6:26 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


It seems the Pats management likes pulling this scam on their veteran high dollar players.  I think Welker stays the same as Mankins did.  O, wait a second, didnt Assante think he above the lord, I mean BB? Yes he did and hes is gone.   There must be others,  I am drawing a blank....   Those vets that left their managers greed at the door stayed on the roster.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 7:50 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I don't see this as a scam as much as the Pats learning their lesson. Six years ago Branch held out for money and left, and Givens went to greener pastures as well, leaving them with no one for Brady to throw to. If their read on Welker was that he'd want more money than they set his value at, then they would be stupid not to prepare for that situation. If they reach a deal with Welker, they cut one of the veterans who's playing for peanuts. If talks break down, the team won't suffer.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 8:38 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 



dokgonzo wrote: I don't see this as a scam as much as the Pats learning their lesson. Six years ago Branch held out for money and left, and Givens went to greener pastures as well, leaving them with no one for Brady to throw to. If their read on Welker was that he'd want more money than they set his value at, then they would be stupid not to prepare for that situation. If they reach a deal with Welker, they cut one of the veterans who's playing for peanuts. If talks break down, the team won't suffer.
Well said. 

Honestly I don't think Gonzalez makes it, unless there's an issue (injury, unknown chemistry problem) with one of the other guys.  

That leaves (in my book)
Welker
Lloyd
Slater
Gaffney
Branch
Ochocinco
PS -  Ebert,  (pos Davis or Roark)

I can see the bottom  2 regular roster vets losing out to any number of scenarios.
Edelman, Stallworth, Ebert


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  • SaysBill
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Posted: 5/10/2012 9:30 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


JSinCT- I agree with your list, however, I see Edelman making the team due to him being the primary PR. While the Pats don't value the KR because of the new rules, PR is still vital and Edelman is the only one on the roster. I think he makes it over Chad Johnson, unless Johnson greatly improves his chemistry with Brady and produces. Also, Edelman is the only slot WR on the roster outside of Welker. He protects against Welker holding out or getting injured.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 11:23 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 



SaysBill wrote: JSinCT- I agree with your list, however, I see Edelman making the team due to him being the primary PR. While the Pats don't value the KR because of the new rules, PR is still vital and Edelman is the only one on the roster. I think he makes it over Chad Johnson, unless Johnson greatly improves his chemistry with Brady and produces. Also, Edelman is the only slot WR on the roster outside of Welker. He protects against Welker holding out or getting injured.
Branch should be the slot guy, but I agree with your assessment of Edelman.  He is that kind of guy. Don't forget, Danny Woodhead is still on the roster.  While he's not a WR he can return punts and kicks, though I believe he's better suited to kickoff duty. 

The more I read about Ebert, the more I believe he can turn into that "slot" guy.  With 4.38 speed, the kid can fly.  It's amusing to read the scouting reports on him questioning his speed and his hands.

Actual scouts say those reports were wrong on both counts. (some draft websites have no business ranking that many players if they're not going to really watch their play.)   Ebert has pretty decent hands I was told, and his speed is sub 4.4


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Last edited 5/10/2012 11:24 PM by JSinCT

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Posted: 5/10/2012 11:25 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Gonna be interesting for sure. I guess rookie minicamp is this weekend, so that may start giving some indications. I'm real interested to see how Ebner (the rugby dude) does because I can see him contributing right away on ST - and that changes the equation for guys like Edelman and Slater.
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  • DerekLarsson2
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Posted: 5/11/2012 12:28 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? Post Rating (1 vote)



Ahh..my favorite topic, wide receiver.......
Of course we don't know what the coaches will do, and we don't know who will get injured and who won't, but........here's what I hope will happen:

_________


1. I hope Wes Welker plays the full and whole season, and doesn't hold out or sit out.  Some of the extra bodies are no doubt protection in the event that Welker isn't on the field (for one reason or another).

2.  Jabar Gaffney is a great addition.  He's a trustworthy player who can produce pretty consistently (unlike just about everyone else on the roster). If he's healthy...then he's a sure thing.

3. Brandon Lloyd is the much anticipated new player here, although I won't be convinced that he's really a #1 type of receiver until I actually see it on the field.  But even if he stumbles early on, it's unlikely that he would not be given a roster spot around 2-3 on the depth chart.

4. Anthony Gonzalez is the real sleeper here. I've seen game film of him (Colts) when he was healthy, and he runs great routes, and moves around in Welker-esque fashion with perhaps a little better verticle speed.  This is the type of player (if healthy) that a smart, cerebral Quarterback like Tom Brady can do many things with.  It would not surprise me if Gonzalez emerges as a main weapon for Brady.  I want this guy out there.

5. Deion Branch is such a great guy personally. But I was disappointed in his production last year...as it trailed off toward the end of the season, and unlike his early Patriot days he came up very empty in the Super Bowl and AFC Championship.  But he is a known quantity for Tom Brady, and can at least serve as a role receiver if the younger players look too shakey. 

6. Donte Stallworth obviously has talent. But he did absolutely nothing since leaving the Patriots after the 2007 season. We're talking close-to-Zero production, so that worries me.  He could get his groove back and beat out Branch for the 5-spot, or perhaps jump-up even one more level.  Then again, he could also just not do enough to even make the roster.  This is kind of a coin-flip, partly because they need the 6th-spot for one of the younger players, or for a special-teams guy like Matthew Slater.

7. Jeremy Ebert looks like your basic slot receiver.  With Welker's future uncertain, and Gonzalez health a bit of a wild-card, I think The Patriots would want to at minimum keep this guy around on their practise squad, and .........possibly.....he does enough where they give him the 6th spot.

8. Julian Edleman has not developed where he is really much of receiver that can be counted on. During his rookie year, he briefly looked like the next "Welker" in pre-season and had a few good games.  But in the last two years he's really just been a punt returner, or a kickoff returner and his receiving just hasn't really developed.  He is definitely a player on the bubble here, and if Ebert looks more promising, then he is likely going to be cut.  I don't have a problem with that.

9. If there is one thing that Bill Belichick likes, it's good special-teams players. Matthew Slater made a name for himself as one of those guys.  But as a wide-receiver this is just not the kind of guy here that you ever want to have Tom Brady wasting away his Hall-of-Fame Career throwing passes to. If they carry 7 guys, then he might be the 7th spot.  If they carry 6 guys, then he might be the 6th spot.  But it is only because of his special teams skills.   I suppose they could always just cut him, and sign him up to the practise squad as an insurance policy. Hopefully, the players listed above will play well enough where this is an easy decision.

10. Chad Ochocinco you had 6-7 months and did nothing.  His problems go beyond  the playbook issue, and are really more about reading live defensive coverages and adjusting his route accordingly (and with the right timing, etc.) . Tom Brady is playing Chess out there, and Ocho is trying to play Checkers.  It's a bad match, and I don't see the point of resigning him, or wasting time with him any longer.  We know Gaffney can do some things, and we expect that Lloyd can be a downfield guy.  So there's just no way Ocho should stay here, unless there are some significant injuries.  Tweet this:  I don't want him, as I don't think he really adds anything.  


So that's my order

Last edited 5/16/2012 10:25 PM by DerekLarsson2

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Posted: 5/11/2012 1:39 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


You can kind of make the same case for Stallworth as for Lloyd. That is, neither got much done except when they connected with BB and/or McD. Donte purely loves being back in NE, he will fight tooth and nail for a roster spot.

Ocho is the biggest question mark. There is no doubting his work ethic or attitude - things I never thought I'd say about him. His problem is between the ears. As you say, he has to be able to make the reads the way Brady is. But ... and here's the big "but" ... McD is back in town. And he has been far more adept at adjusting things to get the most out of players. That's kind of what he did for Lloyd, if you read through the interviews - kept it simple for him.

If you look at Branch's stats, he's remarkably consistent for the Pats over his career. Last year he pretty much hit his averages - not bad for a guy his age.
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Posted: 5/14/2012 1:20 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 



JSinCT wrote:
dokgonzo wrote: I don't see this as a scam as much as the Pats learning their lesson. Six years ago Branch held out for money and left, and Givens went to greener pastures as well, leaving them with no one for Brady to throw to. If their read on Welker was that he'd want more money than they set his value at, then they would be stupid not to prepare for that situation. If they reach a deal with Welker, they cut one of the veterans who's playing for peanuts. If talks break down, the team won't suffer.
Well said. 

Honestly I don't think Gonzalez makes it, unless there's an issue (injury, unknown chemistry problem) with one of the other guys.  

That leaves (in my book)
Welker
Lloyd
Slater
Gaffney
Branch
Ochocinco
PS -  Ebert,  (pos Davis or Roark)

I can see the bottom  2 regular roster vets losing out to any number of scenarios.
Edelman, Stallworth, Ebert
As a WR, Slater sucks. Period end of story. He is lucky he is great at ST or else he should have been gone. His spot should count as ST and not WR IMO. Branch, Ocho, Gonzo, Stallworth would be the likely people to get cut. HOWEVER if somehow Welker takes his time signing a contract offer and camp/preseason starts and BB thinks he can be replaced because some one like Gonzo does not get injured and shows you what they hoped he could do and another emerges, Welker could be a goner.

Don't think they won't do it. These are the Patriots and Belichick running this. You better believe Welker can be gone.

Chance favors the Prepared Mind.

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Posted: 5/14/2012 5:58 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Well said Morph.     If Welker is as bright as we all think he is, he currently is just playing a waiting game.  If he is really smart he will sign for 9.5 million well before camp.  He can't honestly think he's worth much more than 9.5 million.  I am hoping his real problem is that he simply wants an long term deal and I think that will eventually come.

As far as the rest of the WRs hoping for a spot.  I would rather see Stallworth come up big in camp than OUCHo.  I think their about the same age and fit and at times could provide a lot of the same skills to the WR group but  where OUCHo has a little bit more flash to his play, Stallworth has that YAC that I love to watch.   Brady with his short yardage passes of say 6 or 7 yards plus another 3 or 4 YAC gives me a first down.

I see Lloyd making it and Gaffney was an outstanding pickup but I wasn't totally impressed with Dion Freon Branch last year. Ya he had some good catches but so did most of the WRs that played last year.  The thing that I didn't like was the way he took to the ground if he saw that he was going to get taken out.  His choice was to protect himself first.    I guess I am sounding a little out of touch here but I would rather have seen him go for that extra yard.   He had a couple of those but more often he seemed to take the easy way out knowing that he had made the catch and maybe didn't need any more.

Slater although he might be a good special teamer, that's all I see.  He is scary as a receiver or really any time trying to catch the ball.  I wouldn't be hurt to see him down the road.   Gonzales I don't see making it.  He will push the competition in camp but he will get hurt in a preseason game.

I like to go through the possible players the Pats have in camp and ask myself if one of those players dosnt make it on the roster like a Gonzales, would I hate to face him on another team.    With Gonzales its a no, Slater its a  no, OUcho its a no, Branch its a no.  In every case there is someone else on the roster that can give more than the guy lost.
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Posted: 5/14/2012 8:18 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Branch was hurt part of the year, that may explain his more timid approach.

As for the ages of the WR's: Branch (32), Davis (26), Ebert (23-R), Edelman (25), Gaffney (31), Gonzalez (27), Lloyd (30), Ochocinco (34), Slater (26), Stallworth (31), Welker (31). So the veterans are all basically the same age - I'll give Ocho a little latitude on being 34 as his work-out regimen is insane and doesn't seem to stop for the off-season.
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Posted: 5/17/2012 2:22 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I see making the roster:
Welker
Lloyd
Slater
Ocho (only if he is on the same page as Brady, if not Ocho goes and Edelman stays)
Branch
Gaffney

I can see on the PS:
Davis
Ebert

That puts on the outs:
Gonzales
Stallworth
Edelman

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Posted: 5/17/2012 3:59 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I think Edelman stays - great punt returner, could be a good WR if he got more work, and was probably the 3rd best DB on the team last year (as sad a comment as that may be). You can't beat that kind of positional flexibility especially when he does everything well above average.

Branch is probably in the most danger. Partly because he has lost a step, and partly because Gaffney can pick up the "Mr. Reliable" role. And also because if they cut him it's unlikely anyone else takes him - so he can be there on speed-dial.

Ocho's fate is in his hands. If he performs he's in, if not he's out with no questions asked.

Slater stays as ST captain - not as a WR.

Stallworth and Gaffney will need to prove they're the same as they ever was before I say either is a lock to make the squad. If they are, then Branch is gone and nothing Ocho does may save his bacon.
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Posted: 5/17/2012 4:12 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Originally I was thinking Branch would be more the odd man out with Edelman staying but then the dynamic between him and Brady gave him that slight edge. I like Gaffney and Stallworth but think they may be here to challenge Ocho more. BB has his ways of making things work and I cant wait to see this play out.

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Posted: 5/28/2012 1:58 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


By what happened at the OTA's I know say Ocho is gone. He had to be friggened told where to line up? Not good

Chance favors the Prepared Mind.

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Posted: 5/28/2012 3:55 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Yeah, I have to agree. It doesn't look good for Ocho. Stallworth will likely get his spot. I can't help but feel bad for Ocho - all those years stuck in Cinci and he finally gets what he always wanted and can't handle the work. The team did a great job with FA roster moves to ensure that Brady will have plenty of targets - we just don't know who they'll all be quite yet.
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Posted: 5/29/2012 3:56 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


The cut Gonzalez today.
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Posted: 5/29/2012 4:18 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I guess BB is like your injured and we can't see what you can do, we got too many WR's to wait. Or maybe he is injured more than we thought.

Chance favors the Prepared Mind.

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Posted: 5/29/2012 4:48 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


He hasn't been a factor in 3 years. And even then he never even produced to the level Branch does. After the OTA reports I figured Ocho would be the first to go ... guess not.
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Posted: 5/30/2012 8:48 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Ocho should go...........Zero return on his investment so far.

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Posted: 5/30/2012 11:47 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Ocho may be the next to go. Ok so he is in shape, most likely awesome shape. However if you do not have it mentally and cannot even line up correctly at an OTA after being here for a year, the team can do better.

The team has to be able to take advantage of your physical talents and if they can't why are you (Ocho) on the roster.

He is tweeting all the time, maybe he should tweet less and study more.

Chance favors the Prepared Mind.

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Posted: 5/30/2012 1:48 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I'd like to see Ocho work with McDaniels a little before they pull the plug. If McD can't find a way to use him, then there is no hope. And I say this because I remember what they had to work with in 2006 - and the offense was still competitive.
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Posted: 5/30/2012 10:36 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


I'll be shocked if Ocho lasts until September.  The team will be better off to let him go sooner than later.

As for who stays and who goes, Welker and Lloyd are locks.  I think Gaffney will be there.  He's younger and better than Branch.  Slater will be around as the sixth guy on the roster but of course not actually playing the position.  I think Edelman is also in because of his versatility and his special teams.  That leaves probably one spot for either Branch or Stallworth.  I'm a Stallworth fan but haven't really seen him lately.  Not sure if he can still perform or not.  I'd kind of like to see Branch gone though.  I don't think he offers much any more.
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Posted: 5/30/2012 10:44 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Yeah - I agree that Branch/Stallworth/Ocho will be battling for one spot. Maybe 2, depending on how they classify Slater and Edelman.
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Posted: 5/31/2012 8:54 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


With Gonzales now gone, time to let Ocho go, too. He has no body to blame but himself. Let him go now allows him a "chance" to hook up with another team and, calms the new bulls down a little.biggrin

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Posted: 5/31/2012 12:19 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


There was a write up on rookie Ebert yesterday which talked about his football IQ. Since he's the same size as Gonzalez, and possibly less injury prone, and someone they can hide on the PS if need be, that probably was the rationale for letting Gonzalez go.

If they let Ocho go, it'll be interesting to see if anyone has any interest in him. He's 34 years old, after all and coming off a dreadful season. I don't think they're going to pull that trigger until they see what Stallworth has left.
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Posted: 6/3/2012 8:37 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Also Branch has lost a couple of steps. He can't get free the way he use to. He was kinda quiet in the playoffs. The way people blame the SB loss on Welker dropping that pass Branch really did nothing to  help them win.

I was/am surprised he is coming back.

Chance favors the Prepared Mind.

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Posted: 6/5/2012 2:20 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Charles LeClaire-US Presswire
.

The New England Patriots have too many wide receivers and not enough spots available to keep them all. With the release of newly acquired Anthony Gonzalez earlier this week, loosening the logjam has already begun.

.

The Patriots have worked hard this offseason to fix the depth problem the team had in 2011. In doing so, they’ve created a logjam at the position. There are eleven receivers currently on the Patriots roster and the team is likely to keep either five or six. Two will probably be kept on the practice squad and the remaining three or four will be released.

.

Two spots seem to be already secured on the roster for the 2012. Those spots belong to Wes Welker and Brandon Lloyd. Welker was the Patriots top receiver in 2011 and was given the franchise tag going into 2012. Lloyd was signed to be the deep threat that the Patriots lacked last season. The two pro bowlers will be the top two receivers come September.

.

Players that are likely to make the team are Deion Branch and Jabar Gaffney. After being drafted by the Patriots in 2002, Branch left the team to join the Seattle Seahawks in 2006 after two Super Bowl victories and winning the Super Bowl MVP in 2004. He returned in 2010 and was the Patriots second most productive receiver in 2011. Gaffney had a three-year stint with the Patriots from 2006 to 2008. During those three years he developed a great working relationship with quarterback Tom Brady becoming one of Brady’s favorite receivers of his career.

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The remaining eight receivers are not guaranteed spots on the roster for 2012. The most experienced of the remaining receivers are Chad Ochocinco and Donte’ Stallworth. Ochocinco joined the Patriots in 2011 and had the least productive season of his illustrious career. Stallworth played one season for the Patriots in 2007 and re-signed this offseason but has never duplicated the success he had in New Orleans. If he makes the team, Stallworth would be near the bottom of the depth chart.

.

The young receivers are much less likely to make the final roster for September. It’s still unclear what will happen with four-year veteran Julian Edelman. Edelman played a good deal of defense in 2011 and it is an option to play him at the weakest position for the Patriots in 2012. The other returning players are Britt Davis and Matthew Slater. Davis and Slater have minimal experience and don’t look to be part of the team in 2012 though they could join the practice squad and be available if injuries occur.

.

With this logjam at receiver, the two most unlucky players are the rookies Jeremy Ebert and Matt Roark. The Patriots are looking poised for another Super Bowl run in 2012 and with the experience on the roster it would be incredibly difficult for these two to break into the team. Like Davis and Slater, they will join the practice squad or be given their release.

.

Despite his experience, Donte’ Stallworth will be the next Patriots receiver released. His age of 31 shows he is not likely to be around for the future of the team and he doesn’t show any special reason why he would make a difference. Depending on how the Patriots feel about Ochocinco and whether they will be willing to have Edelman play defense, one of them would be next. If they keep those two receivers, the next release will fall on Davis and Slater.

.

The Patriots have created a logjam of receivers this offseason and now have to clean it up. Difficult decisions have to be made as to who will be on the final roster come September. They got the ball rolling by releasing Anthony Gonzalez but as they continue to attempt to fix the problem, the decisions will be much tougher.

.

Credit: RantSports/Yardbarker

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Posted: 6/5/2012 8:47 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Who is that author? Slater isn't going to be on the team unless its practice squad? Huh??? Does he know who Slater is?
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Posted: 6/5/2012 9:26 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Slater is in his 5th year, is he even allowed on the PS anymore?

I swear a lot of these articles must be written based on just looking at a stats sheet.
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Posted: 6/6/2012 11:14 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Yeah it's quite obvious this guy doesn't know who he's talking about and is just looking at recieving stats to come up with his info.  He must get paid by the word.

Slater likely makes the team based solely on his ST contributions any offensive plays he makes are gravy.
It is the NFL...Not a knitting class.
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Posted: 6/7/2012 8:36 AM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Slater is not eligible for the practice squad because he has accrued at least one year on an active roster. He has 4 years accrued on an active roster.

Slater would not go to a practice squad even if he was eligible. Ignoring the fact that he just signed a 3 year $5.4M contract ($2M signing bonus), he is the best special teams player in the league. If the Patriots cut him, he would be snatched up by another team within an hour.
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Posted: 6/7/2012 1:09 PM

Re: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Ocho was a no-show at OTA's today ... according to his twitter, he had planned to be there ... hmmm ...
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Posted: 6/7/2012 2:39 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Shalise tweeted that he went to Gillette then left...
It is the NFL...Not a knitting class.
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Posted: 6/7/2012 2:57 PM

RE: WR: Who Stays, Who Goes? 


Per Adam Schefter: Chad Ochocinco left Patriots complex before today's OTA...to attend an eye doctor appointment. Contrary to speculation, he was not released.
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